OTA Antenna Grounding Questions and Clarification - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 17 Old 09-28-2008, 08:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Three questions. If I use a second grounding rod for grounding my antenna and I need to connect it to the house's main ground rod - does this mean I can use one of these grounding claps (http://www.doityourself.com/invt/2528651) to the main pipe that has the electric service going in to the house with a 6 awg wire? Can I connect the coax grounding block to the same clamp with a 10 awg wire? Is a 4 foot ground rod too short or does it meet code requirements - I am in Wisconsin? I want to make sure I do this right.
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post #2 of 17 Old 09-28-2008, 10:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pedrobogus View Post

Three questions. If I use a second grounding rod for grounding my antenna and I need to connect it to the house's main ground rod - does this mean I can use one of these grounding claps (http://www.doityourself.com/invt/2528651) to the main pipe that has the electric service going in to the house with a 6 awg wire? Can I connect the coax grounding block to the same clamp with a 10 awg wire? Is a 4 foot ground rod too short or does it meet code requirements - I am in Wisconsin? I want to make sure I do this right.

on the grounding rod for the antenna and mast/tower use one grounding clamp to attach to the antenna/mast/tower, use a second grounding clamp to connect to your house grounding system. you could use the clamp you stated to attach the house end of the grounding system if it makes its grounding through a water pipe, if your house grounding is to a grounding rod then use a rod clamp. your use of the term 'main pipe' is unclear if you are referring to a water pipe or electrical conduit (service mast or from meter to breaker box). Putting a clamp in water pipe is OK, putting a clamp on electrical conduit is not, you want to connect to whatever is the grounding electrode (water pipe or ground rod) for the house. the clamp you show is for attaching to a copper water pipe not electrical conduit.

the coax grounding block which should be outside your house should run to the antenna/mast/tower grounding rod. you could use a third grounding clamp or use a split bolt connector and connect it to the wire grounding the antenna/mast/tower.

an 8 foot long grounding rod meets the code requirements.

also having a lightning arrestor (spark gap or gas) before the grounding block will better protect things. the grounding block only grounds the coax shield adding the lightning arrestor grounds the center conductor for high voltages.

use 6AWG to ground the grounding block if it will fit the connecting point or the largest wire that will fit.
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post #3 of 17 Old 09-28-2008, 10:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pedrobogus View Post

Three questions. If I use a second grounding rod for grounding my antenna and I need to connect it to the house's main ground rod - does this mean I can use one of these grounding claps (http://www.doityourself.com/invt/2528651) to the main pipe that has the electric service going in to the house with a 6 awg wire? Can I connect the coax grounding block to the same clamp with a 10 awg wire? Is a 4 foot ground rod too short or does it meet code requirements - I am in Wisconsin? I want to make sure I do this right.

1: Yes
2: Yes
3: Check with your local AHJ.

http://ecmweb.com/nec/electric_artic...io_television/

CIAO!

Ed N.
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post #4 of 17 Old 09-29-2008, 06:34 AM - Thread Starter
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I bought a 8' grounding rod and will pound it in the ground soon. I just want to make sure I do not mess anything up when running the 6 awg from this to the house ground. The only pipe (besides the gas inlet) that I have on the outside of my house is the service entrance for the electric. We have all buried cables in my neighborhood. It goes directly down beneath my deck. I have no clue if there is a ground rod there but I assume there is not. This electric service pipe is about 20' from where I want to install the ground rod. The other option I have would be to run in inside my house to a copper pipe from the water - which is about 5' away. I think it would be up to code but not sure I like the idea of running it inside the house (but I am not an electrician). Sorry for all the questions - I am just being thorough.
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post #5 of 17 Old 09-29-2008, 07:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pedrobogus View Post

I bought a 8' grounding rod and will pound it in the ground soon. I just want to make sure I do not mess anything up when running the 6 awg from this to the house ground. The only pipe (besides the gas inlet) that I have on the outside of my house is the service entrance for the electric. We have all buried cables in my neighborhood. It goes directly down beneath my deck. I have no clue if there is a ground rod there but I assume there is not. This electric service pipe is about 20' from where I want to install the ground rod. The other option I have would be to run in inside my house to a copper pipe from the water - which is about 5' away. I think it would be up to code but not sure I like the idea of running it inside the house (but I am not an electrician). Sorry for all the questions - I am just being thorough.

go to your circuit breaker box. look for an uninsulated copper wire coming out of it which would go to a grounding connection. you could make a new grounding connection (don't mess with the existing one) to where ever it does (water pipe service before water meter if city water or a ground rod). if there is a ground rod instead of connection to a water pipe the ground rod is likely below the electric meter or close to where the breaker box is located. if the ground rod is below the electric meter behind a metal shield I would suggest not disrupting that to make a ground connection there, there is live electricity in the insulated wires and your house grounding connection only an electrician (or equivalent) should mess with that. you could connect to that uninsulated copper wire as it travels outside of your breaker box with a split bolt connector.

if your house grounding connection is a city water pipe then you have no choice but to bring the connection in the house. also you want to connect the ground from the antenna to the same pipe the house ground is on (the pipe near the water meter, not some 1/2 or 3/4 inch pipe somewhere).

when you make connections (even with new wire, clamps and rods) you should use sand paper and get them shiny at the connection point and make the clamps tight (there is some spot that is tight enough and is short of breaking the clamp).

questions are good.
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post #6 of 17 Old 09-29-2008, 09:19 AM - Thread Starter
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According to the NEC (from Ed N.'s post) this is acceptable:

(F) Electrode. The grounding conductor must terminate to the nearest accessible:

*Structure grounding electrode system [250.50].
*Interior metal water piping system, within 5 feet from its point of entrance [250.52(A)(1)].
*Service bonding means [250.94].
*Metallic service raceway.
*Service equipment enclosure.
*Grounding electrode conductor or the grounding electrode conductor metal enclosure.

So can I use this metal raceway (I am assuming this is the 2" pipe that feeds into the house) on the outside of the house that feeds the inside service box the ground wire? I would rather not hire an electrician because I am strapped on cash - we have a 18 month old and my wife can not believe how expensive "free hdtv" is. Thanks SO much!
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post #7 of 17 Old 09-29-2008, 09:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pedrobogus View Post

According to the NEC (from Ed N.'s post) this is acceptable:

(F) Electrode. The grounding conductor must terminate to the nearest accessible:

*Structure grounding electrode system [250.50].
*Interior metal water piping system, within 5 feet from its point of entrance [250.52(A)(1)].
*Service bonding means [250.94].
*Metallic service raceway.
*Service equipment enclosure.
*Grounding electrode conductor or the grounding electrode conductor metal enclosure.

So can I use this metal raceway (I am assuming this is the 2" pipe that feeds into the house) on the outside of the house that feeds the inside service box the ground wire? I would rather not hire an electrician because I am strapped on cash - we have a 18 month old and my wife can not believe how expensive "free hdtv" is. Thanks SO much!

raceway is a rectangular covered trough, it is easy to make a grounding connection to with a bolt going through it.

making a good grounding connection to 2" conduit is a different procedure, it would be done inside an enclosure where you don't want to go without experience.

did you see a bare copper wire coming out of your breaker box and if so follow it to its connection?

do you have city water with a water meter? if so is there a clamp on the water pipe on the street side of the meter?
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post #8 of 17 Old 09-29-2008, 05:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Hello again. Here is a picture of my city water with a copper wire attached. The stranded ground wire coming out of my breaker box goes outside my house and beneath my deck - so I can't see anything but the metal conduit pipes. The water pipe (and the wire that appears to be the ground) are clear across the house from the electric box - which is of course, on the other side of where I was going to pound in the grounding rod. If this water pipe os where I where I need to be should I run coated 6 awg grounding wire all the way to this location? The only practical way for me to do this would be through the insode of my basement. Thanks again for all your help.
LL
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post #9 of 17 Old 09-29-2008, 08:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pedrobogus View Post

Hello again. Here is a picture of my city water with a copper wire attached. The stranded ground wire coming out of my breaker box goes outside my house and beneath my deck - so I can't see anything but the metal conduit pipes. The water pipe (and the wire that appears to be the ground) are clear across the house from the electric box - which is of course, on the other side of where I was going to pound in the grounding rod. If this water pipe os where I where I need to be should I run coated 6 awg grounding wire all the way to this location? The only practical way for me to do this would be through the insode of my basement. Thanks again for all your help.

Where the bare stranded wire comes out of your breaker box is where you could connect from the antenna/mast/tower ground rod using 6AWG and a split bolt connector.
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post #10 of 17 Old 09-30-2008, 05:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Man, I am difficult. That stranded wire coming out of the breaker box is not bare. It also goes up a 2" piece of conduit only about 8" then out my house and bends down and takes everything under my deck and underground. It is sharing that pipe with the main power cables also. I am in for just calling a electrician?
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post #11 of 17 Old 10-05-2008, 09:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Okay, so I think I am going to do this myself. I will run a 6 awg wire from the ground rod from the picture in my post above out my house, around it to a ground rod. I will go the shortest route (I assume there is no maximum length for this run). Should I use two ground rods - one each for the coax grounding and one for the antenna & mast or should I ground both to the same ground rod? If I need to use two, I rassume I can tie the two together with the same 6 awg wire. Thanks for any response!
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post #12 of 17 Old 10-06-2008, 07:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pedrobogus View Post

Okay, so I think I am going to do this myself. I will run a 6 awg wire from the ground rod from the picture in my post above out my house, around it to a ground rod. I will go the shortest route (I assume there is no maximum length for this run). Should I use two ground rods - one each for the coax grounding and one for the antenna & mast or should I ground both to the same ground rod? If I need to use two, I rassume I can tie the two together with the same 6 awg wire. Thanks for any response!

if you are grounding where it is grounded to your water system then you want to put a new clamp on the water pipe (left vertical) and not on the conduit (right vertical) which shields the grounding wire. sandpaper or wire brush the water pipe and all the ends of wire and clamps (even brand new from store) to be shiny metal before connecting. be careful not to disrupt the clamps and wires already there.

you want to place a coax grounding block just before the coax comes into the house. you can use one grounding rod to ground that and your antenna/mast. locate that grounding rod with the shortest path for the grounding wire from your antenna/mast.
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post #13 of 17 Old 10-07-2008, 05:48 PM
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I have to say after reading this thread. I personally just dont believe in making grounding connections to my water pipes in my house. Get a longer copper wire and ground to something else.

Living on the FRINGE + Locking OTA locals......Can get very FRUSTRATING at times!
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post #14 of 17 Old 10-07-2008, 06:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Arkyman View Post

I have to say after reading this thread. I personally just dont believe in making grounding connections to my water pipes in my house. Get a longer copper wire and ground to something else.

one or two ground rods provide a ground connection for a house. if a house is on a city water system it has been custom to ground to the incoming metal water service coming into your house.

if you have a metallic water system in your house it should be connected to your house electrical ground no matter what your grounding electrode (rod or water pipe) is.

your antenna ground needs to be connected to your house electrical ground no matter what your grounding electrode is.

you may not believe it but it is the electrical code over most of the USA. it also makes sense and is the safest. if you don't follow those practices you risk life or property.
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post #15 of 17 Old 10-07-2008, 06:59 PM
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http://www.hometheatershack.com/foru...grounding.html

Yes, calibration is important...every user should be calibrated.

Need electronics repair? A great place to start looking for a shop in your area: http://www.tvrepairpros.com/
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post #16 of 17 Old 10-07-2008, 08:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnpost View Post

one or two ground rods provide a ground connection for a house. if a house is on a city water system it has been custom to ground to the incoming metal water service coming into your house.

if you have a metallic water system in your house it should be connected to your house electrical ground no matter what your grounding electrode (rod or water pipe) is.

your antenna ground needs to be connected to your house electrical ground no matter what your grounding electrode is.

you may not believe it but it is the electrical code over most of the USA. it also makes sense and is the safest. if you don't follow those practices you risk life or property.

I'm just saying I wouldnt ground to just any water pipe I found close or conveinent. I'm not saying its not done or its not code, I just wouldnt ground an OTA system to one

Living on the FRINGE + Locking OTA locals......Can get very FRUSTRATING at times!
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post #17 of 17 Old 10-07-2008, 10:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkyman View Post

I have to say after reading this thread. I personally just dont believe in making grounding connections to my water pipes in my house. Get a longer copper wire and ground to something else.

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnpost View Post

one or two ground rods provide a ground connection for a house. if a house is on a city water system it has been custom to ground to the incoming metal water service coming into your house.

if you have a metallic water system in your house it should be connected to your house electrical ground no matter what your grounding electrode (rod or water pipe) is.

your antenna ground needs to be connected to your house electrical ground no matter what your grounding electrode is.

you may not believe it but it is the electrical code over most of the USA. it also makes sense and is the safest. if you don't follow those practices you risk life or property.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkyman View Post

I'm just saying I wouldnt ground to just any water pipe I found close or conveinent. I'm not saying its not done or its not code, I just wouldnt ground an OTA system to one

If you read the thread the poster wasn't going to ground to any water pipe, he was going to ground to the incoming water service pipe where the house electrical ground connection was made as he should.

According to code the OTA ground has to be made to the house electrical ground which is bonded to the water pipes.

Lots of people don't do things to code. It's everyone's choice.
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