DTV Transition Date Delay - It's final. Again. June 12, 2009. - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
post #61 of 3465 Old 01-08-2009, 05:46 PM
Advanced Member
 
otaguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Swarthmore, PA
Posts: 510
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 10
That sort of complaint has already started, lots of articles on the web about people hooking up converter boxes with insufficient antennas and having trouble getting reception. For a while the PSA's totally ignored antennas but recently I have seen some that address the issue.
otaguy is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #62 of 3465 Old 01-08-2009, 05:52 PM
Member
 
LCDSpazz's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 139
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Didn't the FCC already sell the spectrum, with the winning bidders promised the real estate becoming available in late Feb? I suppose they have a dozen escape clauses since there was a good chance of this happening.

The mass confusion an 11th hour delay like this is going to cause for everyone is going to offset any benefits IMO.

I'd have to agree though that the choice of the shut-off date was completely ridiculous - 1 month into a new administration AND in the dead of winter - great timing!
LCDSpazz is offline  
post #63 of 3465 Old 01-08-2009, 05:57 PM
Advanced Member
 
otaguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Swarthmore, PA
Posts: 510
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Yes in the dead of winter and right at the start of a new administraion, but about as far to the next election as possible, which is probably not a coincidence. Agreed that changing the date this late is a recipe for chaos - quite a few stations have turned off analog already, the whole state of Hawaii set to go on Jan 15.
otaguy is offline  
 
post #64 of 3465 Old 01-08-2009, 06:06 PM
Member
 
ktmglen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Fort Collins, CO
Posts: 162
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Here's my idea on how to reach the stragglers without postponing anything:

Show an overlaid count down timer continuously on every analog broadcast for the last 10 days before Feb 19. You'd have to keep the overlay out of the cable and satellite plants though. Also Air PSAs saying if you see this timer, you need to do something NOW.

If you really want to reach the knuckleheads out there, show only the analog cut off PSAs for the last 10 days before Feb 17 on the analog broadcasts. That's all nothing else.

I suspect that anybody who is not ready at this point will never be ready unless forced to, ah hm, change.

-Glen
ktmglen is offline  
post #65 of 3465 Old 01-08-2009, 06:09 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
arxaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 11,043
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdspencer View Post

I'm wondering about those people who currently only get ghosty analog OTA and then get their converter boxes connected thinking that they are all set for the transition. All that ghosting will cause multipaths and thus no picture from the box.

Most new boxes are not bothered by multipath like older tuners were.
arxaw is offline  
post #66 of 3465 Old 01-08-2009, 06:11 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
afiggatt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Sterling, VA
Posts: 4,289
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by arxaw View Post

Many markets need good UHF & VHF reception. VHF is not going away.

I am fully aware of that. However, there are a number of major markets where the big four analog stations are all on VHF, not so for digital of course. The list starts with NYC and LA. I have seen a number of reports & posts here and elsewhere about people who so long as they got good VHF reception for the big four, that was good enough. That they got poor or no UHF reception didn't bother them. Well, they hook up a converter box and find they can't get CBS 2 or NBC 4 and don't understand why.
afiggatt is offline  
post #67 of 3465 Old 01-08-2009, 06:23 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
HDTVChallenged's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 8,936
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratman View Post

I still can't find a place to buy leaded gasoline! What happened???

Hey now, I was living in another country when that law was passed. Imagine my confusion when I got back to the real world and tried to find fuel for my '69 guzzler.
HDTVChallenged is offline  
post #68 of 3465 Old 01-08-2009, 06:55 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
mx6bfast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Delray Beach, FL
Posts: 6,918
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 20
If they give $5 billion to the porn industry then they can replenish the funding for the converter box.

These people have had how long now to get ready for this? Sometimes you just have to say tough s**t.

Grit N Grind
Glory Glory Man United
Go Cubs Go
mx6bfast is offline  
post #69 of 3465 Old 01-08-2009, 07:13 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bremen, KS
Posts: 96
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by otaguy View Post

Yes in the dead of winter and right at the start of a new administraion, but about as far to the next election as possible, which is probably not a coincidence.

As well that the Super Bowl and Daytona 500 will have already aired and it will be 3 weeks until March Madness starts and 6 weeks until the NCAA basketball championship and the opening of the MLB season. It's really about the ideal date from a sporting stand point.

As far as delaying the transition date, the only plausible way will be a court injunction.

aka N0NB
Nate_KS is offline  
post #70 of 3465 Old 01-08-2009, 07:23 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Kendrid's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Lake In The Hills, IL
Posts: 1,526
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 10
"Obama urges Congress to postpone DTV transition"
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-10137681-38.html

Kevin
Kendrid is offline  
post #71 of 3465 Old 01-08-2009, 07:45 PM
Senior Member
 
iowegian3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: southern Colorado
Posts: 255
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Big Four Networks Don't Mind Delaying Digital Transition

ABC, NBC, Fox and CBS have lined up behind the proposal by the Obama transition team to move the DTV transition date.

("click on the link below, stare into mirror and watch your nose hairs turn white" or "DTV transition will occur before this article loads")
By John Eggerton and Marisa Guthrie -- Broadcasting & Cable, 1/8/2009 3:47:00 PM
iowegian3 is offline  
post #72 of 3465 Old 01-08-2009, 08:09 PM
sjv
AVS Forum Special Member
 
sjv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: New Orleans' North Shore-beautiful St. Tammany Parish LA
Posts: 1,082
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by mx6bfast View Post

If they give $5 billion to the porn industry then they can replenish the funding for the converter box.

These people have had how long now to get ready for this? Sometimes you just have to say tough s**t.

You're 100% correct!
sjv is offline  
post #73 of 3465 Old 01-08-2009, 08:14 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
SnellKrell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Upper East Side - Manhattan
Posts: 2,194
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 12
We had a very weak formal statement from the NAB - and now the four major broadcast networks are, in my opinion, playing politics to the nth degree.

They are shamelessly overreacting to a new president, a new FCC and a congress that they perceive as pro-consumer (viewer), ergo, anti-business.

The networks are folding like a house of cards!
SnellKrell is offline  
post #74 of 3465 Old 01-08-2009, 08:46 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
milehighmike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Highlands Ranch, CO
Posts: 1,257
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Posted by affigatt:
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by milehighmike
As we all know, the current 2-17-09 analog cutoff date doesn't prohibit stations from shutting analog off early. If Congress extends the cutoff date to, say, June, they would not be able to mandate analog to remain on the air (as they haven't up to now) because Wilmington, Hawaii, and many individual stations have already, or plan to prior to 2-17-09, shut off analog.

Those stations got permission from the FCC to shut off analog early. As part of the transition process, the FCC allowed stations to shut off early starting last fall if they could justify it and if they provided 30 days notice with a lot of on-screen announcements. A licensed station can not willy-nilly shut down it's analog broadcast unless they are willing to risk their license.

Can't quite understand why you quoted me. I don't think your additional comments contradicted anything in my post. I understand stations can't just decide on noon tomorrow to shut off analog. My point was that the FCC is OK with stations shutting analog off early (probably only have to show that digital coverage is adequate and cable coverage continues). Didn't one in Montana just shut off analog this week? I don't know of any instances where the FCC denied a request to shut off analog early.
milehighmike is offline  
post #75 of 3465 Old 01-08-2009, 10:01 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
afiggatt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Sterling, VA
Posts: 4,289
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by milehighmike View Post

Posted by affigatt:

Can't quite understand why you quoted me. I don't think your additional comments contradicted anything in my post. I understand stations can't just decide on noon tomorrow to shut off analog. My point was that the FCC is OK with stations shutting analog off early (probably only have to show that digital coverage is adequate and cable coverage continues). Didn't one in Montana just shut off analog this week? I don't know of any instances where the FCC denied a request to shut off analog early.

Nothing personal. I was responding to your and the other posts about stations being able to shut off analog early. The FCC is ok with a limited number of stations shutting off early because it is part of the transition process leading up to February 17. This leads to questions about how this proposed delay would be handled. Would stations be ordered not to shut down on and after February 17 without special permission? Would the extension be voluntary? Which might lead to hundreds of stations shutting down on February 17 which would upset the remaining analog viewers who thought they were ok and the politicians who put the delay in place. This sudden move to a last minute delay has a ton of unresolved details and little time to resolve them.
afiggatt is offline  
post #76 of 3465 Old 01-09-2009, 12:40 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Rammitinski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Des Plaines, IL
Posts: 29,525
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 20
What they need to do is change the eligibilty rules for the waiting list - and use "E-Verify" if they have to (hint hint).
Rammitinski is offline  
post #77 of 3465 Old 01-09-2009, 01:42 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
milehighmike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Highlands Ranch, CO
Posts: 1,257
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Another thought.

Perhaps all analogs should run a semi-intimidating DTV conversion spot (you're going to lose TV service if you don't act NOW) several times a day for the next week or so giving an FCC manned 800 number for people to call if they rely on an antenna, have an analog TV, and need a converter box. The FCC could get a count, round it up 10% to account for procrastinators and people who are in Europe right now, multiply it by $40, and get a couple of sponsors in the House and Senate to write a quick appropriations bill.

On another related note, are there any "inventory" figures out there that show how many converter boxes are available should there be a "rush on the banks"?
milehighmike is offline  
post #78 of 3465 Old 01-09-2009, 03:35 AM
 
bicker1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Burlington, MA
Posts: 8,390
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnellKrell View Post

They are shamelessly overreacting to a new president, a new FCC and a congress that they perceive as pro-consumer (viewer)...

It is nice to see someone else who recognizes that our community's priorities (i.e., digital television), are generally anti-consumer (viewer). Sucks that everyone is capitulating.
bicker1 is offline  
post #79 of 3465 Old 01-09-2009, 05:05 AM
 
bicker1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Burlington, MA
Posts: 8,390
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
How is it that Congress doesn't believe it will have enough time to pass Obama's economic incentive plan by February 1, but some people feel that Congress has enough time to consider delaying the DTV transition?
bicker1 is offline  
post #80 of 3465 Old 01-09-2009, 06:00 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
foxeng's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Where ever I am is where I am.
Posts: 14,319
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 165 Post(s)
Liked: 66
My opinion is this is saber rattling so the skids get greased for more money for the coupons.

All opinions expressed (unless otherwise noted) are the posters and NOT the posters employers. The poster in NO WAY is/will speak for his employers. "Arguing with an engineer is like mud wrestling with a pig. After a couple of hours, you realize the pig likes it"
foxeng is offline  
post #81 of 3465 Old 01-09-2009, 06:49 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
bdfox18doe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 6,774
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 203 Post(s)
Liked: 111
My opinion is we need to do the transition on schedule. Those who are too lazy or not smart enough to deal with an antenna or converter need to use a radio, or move to amish land where the still drive with horse and buggies.

How many of those who claim not to be able to afford it can find the money for beer and cigs?

Bob

The views expressed here are my own and do not necessarily represent those of ABC, CBS, CW, FOX, MeTv, or AntennaTv; my employer; or its parent company.
Nor my wife for that matter!
bdfox18doe is offline  
post #82 of 3465 Old 01-09-2009, 06:55 AM
Senior Member
 
vman41's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 462
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
The purpose of the coupon program was to subsidize, and thus create, a market for low cost converter boxes which was then absent. The stores now have low cost converter boxes, there is not reason to delay the transtition.
vman41 is offline  
post #83 of 3465 Old 01-09-2009, 06:59 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
bdfox18doe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 6,774
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 203 Post(s)
Liked: 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by vman41 View Post

The stores now have low cost converter boxes, there is not reason to delay the transtition.

Right, I was at HHGregg the other day... they had over 100 Zenith's and almost that many Apex's on an island in prominent view with antennas beside them. Even the local RiteAid had 12 of the Access HD's.

Bob

The views expressed here are my own and do not necessarily represent those of ABC, CBS, CW, FOX, MeTv, or AntennaTv; my employer; or its parent company.
Nor my wife for that matter!
bdfox18doe is offline  
post #84 of 3465 Old 01-09-2009, 08:02 AM
Member
 
ktmglen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Fort Collins, CO
Posts: 162
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by milehighmike View Post

Perhaps all analogs should run a semi-intimidating DTV conversion spot (you're going to lose TV service if you don't act NOW) several times a day for the next week or so giving an FCC manned 800 number for people to call if they rely on an antenna, have an analog TV, and need a converter box.

This approach would work well, but you'd need to keep the spot from being shown on televisions serviced by cable, satellite, or OTA digital. Basically, if you can see this spot, you're not ready and need to do something now or you're going to lose TV in X days.

-Glen
ktmglen is offline  
post #85 of 3465 Old 01-09-2009, 08:09 AM
Advanced Member
 
snowcat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Nashville, TN
Posts: 696
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 56 Post(s)
Liked: 63
From my understanding, getting more money for coupons wasn't a problem. That was expected by Congress when all of this was set up.

The problem is the people running the coupon program waited way too long to ask for the additional money.


I really hope the switch is not delayed. It has been delayed way too long as it is, and any delay now will likely result in additional delays in the future.
snowcat is offline  
post #86 of 3465 Old 01-09-2009, 08:15 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
xraffle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,684
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by snowcat View Post

I really hope the switch is not delayed. It has been delayed way too long as it is, and any delay now will likely result in additional delays in the future.

I agree. Not to mention all the confusion it will cause.
xraffle is offline  
post #87 of 3465 Old 01-09-2009, 08:16 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
digiblur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Baton Rouge DMA
Posts: 2,957
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by ktmglen View Post

This approach would work well, but you'd need to keep the spot from being shown on televisions serviced by cable, satellite, or OTA digital. Basically, if you can see this spot, you're not ready and need to do something now or you're going to lose TV in X days.

-Glen

There already plans in place to do just that. Channels approved on an individual basis are allowed to stay on air for a little while longer to run nothing but spots about helping people convert to digital.
digiblur is offline  
post #88 of 3465 Old 01-09-2009, 09:24 AM
Member
 
ktmglen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Fort Collins, CO
Posts: 162
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by digiblur View Post

There already plans in place to do just that. Channels approved on an individual basis are allowed to stay on air for a little while longer to run nothing but spots about helping people convert to digital.

They need to do something indicating a problem to affected viewers BEFORE the transition date too though.
ktmglen is offline  
post #89 of 3465 Old 01-09-2009, 10:21 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
goldrich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 1,741
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 23 Post(s)
Liked: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdfox18doe View Post

My opinion is we need to do the transition on schedule. Those who are too lazy or not smart enough to deal with an antenna or converter need to use a radio, or move to amish land where the still drive with horse and buggies.

How many of those who claim not to be able to afford it can find the money for beer and cigs?

Might this be the same group of people we see year after year driving up to the mailbox in front of their local post office at 11:57 p.m. on APRIL 15???? Just a thought........

Steve
goldrich is offline  
post #90 of 3465 Old 01-09-2009, 10:42 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
jvillain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Burnaby, BC
Posts: 2,177
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:


I don't know of any instances where the FCC denied a request to shut off analog early.

There was at least one. In LA I think. That was pretty early in though.

The cable companies had all agreed to hold off tier changes and a few other things till after the transition to reduce confusion. Are their plans now on hold indefinitely?

The date for the change was picked to provide the greatest possible azz protection giving the politicians the most time possible before they have to go to the polls again. Remember last time they had a vote no one wanted to vote yes because they were afraid of the voters. If this gets delayed it could be delayed a lot longer than 6 months.
jvillain is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Closed Thread HDTV Technical

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off