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post #271 of 1484 Old 05-11-2009, 06:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by videobruce View Post

BTW, I'm also told a analog download is 3 hours. A digital download is 30 minutes!

well, when I look at the download schedules in my Sony diagnostic menus, the analog broadcasts' main program download (DL 70) is indeed 180 minutes (as we have known for years); and it is true that the DL 70 for the digital schedule that I see is only 30 minutes. However - as someone else has pointed out in the Sony thread - the DL 70 is always followed almost immediately by a DL 97 (which is not used in the analog schedules) that lasts 60 minutes.

Most of us don't KNOW what the non-70 DLs provide, but it appears that the digital equivalent of the program downloads COULD total 90 minutes, or even something else, since we (or at least most of us) have no idea what is in most of the 4 (or 5, in the case of digital) different downloads...

So do YOU know what these downloads are, or do you know someone who DOES? (We'd all be interested to know...I'm serious, not being sarcastic or anything like that)

OTA only. For signal strength at your location: FCC DTV reception map
TVGOS data: Sony 250 from 5.1?, LG3410a from my DTVPal setup here, not any more.

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post #272 of 1484 Old 05-13-2009, 01:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avnstf View Post

well, when I look at the download schedules in my Sony diagnostic menus, the analog broadcasts' main program download (DL 70) is indeed 180 minutes (as we have known for years); and it is true that the DL 70 for the digital schedule that I see is only 30 minutes. However - as someone else has pointed out in the Sony thread - the DL 70 is always followed almost immediately by a DL 97 (which is not used in the analog schedules) that lasts 60 minutes.

Most of us don't KNOW what the non-70 DLs provide, but it appears that the digital equivalent of the program downloads COULD total 90 minutes, or even something else, since we (or at least most of us) have no idea what is in most of the 4 (or 5, in the case of digital) different downloads...

So do YOU know what these downloads are, or do you know someone who DOES? (We'd all be interested to know...I'm serious, not being sarcastic or anything like that)

I only have a Panasonic DMR-EH75V TVGOS 9 that receives analog listings.

I broadly mentioned what the different DLID are that I see in this message.

And I mentioned the technique I used to determine what I did.

So perhaps someone here could utilize that same technique.

I have a question though. To make use of that technique I rely on the fact that TVGOS 9 G*Test resets the packet counts.

Does TVGOS 8 G*Test reset the packet counts?
Does TVGOS 7 G*Test reset the packet counts?

If the answer to those is no, then:
Is TVGOS 8 able to reset the packet counts? how?
Is TVGOS 7 able to reset the packet counts? how?

I ask for the benefit of others.
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post #273 of 1484 Old 05-13-2009, 08:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kev4321 View Post

[...]
I have a question though. To make use of that technique I rely on the fact that TVGOS 9 G*Test resets the packet counts.

Does TVGOS 8 G*Test reset the packet counts?

Sony DHG-HDD250 here, with base version 08.01.71
The G* Test does not reset the packet counts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kev4321 View Post

If the answer to those is no, then:
Is TVGOS 8 able to reset the packet counts? how?

Yes, almost any reset resets the packet counts. My reset of choice is the 'Reset User Configuration' in the 9012 menu. After the reset, it steps you through the initial setup (channel scan) of the DVR, but doesn't touch the TVGOS system (other than it clears the packet counts in the 753... menu). I think the front panel "soft" reset would also clear them, but I've had that reset turn into a hard reset, and wipe my grid, and patch versions back to 0. So I avoid it any more.

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post #274 of 1484 Old 05-14-2009, 05:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bwall23 View Post

True, but since jaf1 is using a DTVPal, it will work. Although he didn't mention it explicitly, and just quoted you, I think he meant the Factory Test Screen, a.k.a. G* Test. The DTVPal will convert digital to analog, so it's like he's running the G* Test on his analog host channel.

Yes, that is correct. Sorry not to have been clearer. The Factory Test Screen accessed via 971397135
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post #275 of 1484 Old 05-14-2009, 06:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kev4321 View Post

Thanks avnstf and bwall23.

I would like to get to the bottom of V7 VBI channel numbering, if possible.





I'm curious about how V7 displays the channel number.

Do others experience the decimal number mixed in with the hexadecimal number?

It matters because if I'm going to be asking people here to check that the host channel and the VBI channel are the same I'll need to mention this unusual behavior.

I suspect jafi was typing the stuff while not directly looking at the diagnostic screen and so slipped, or something.

I am looking directly at the screen:
It says
Zip Code 00020
Host ID 0x1616
Host Chan 0x2800008D
VBI Chan 0x28000141


I have typed exactly what's being displayed. I even physically counted the zeros. I have not "slipped or something"
Picture of screen is attached - 321.jpg. It's a little hard to read but you can make the out the exact same information.

This is a DMR-eh50 attached to a DTVPal in TVGOS mode for OTA reception of DTV currently tuned to channel 321 (22.1 Fort Collins station that retransmits for Fox 31 in Denver)

Now the VBI does appear to change. The second picture IMG_1824.jpg the VBI chan is 0x280000AB - tuned to channel 141 KCNC 4.1 (local CBS affiliate).
LL
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post #276 of 1484 Old 05-14-2009, 12:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mabuttra View Post

Sony DHG-HDD250 here, with base version 08.01.71
The G* Test does not reset the packet counts.

Yes, almost any reset resets the packet counts. My reset of choice is the 'Reset User Configuration' in the 9012 menu. After the reset, it steps you through the initial setup (channel scan) of the DVR, but doesn't touch the TVGOS system (other than it clears the packet counts in the 753... menu). I think the front panel "soft" reset would also clear them, but I've had that reset turn into a hard reset, and wipe my grid, and patch versions back to 0. So I avoid it any more.

Thanks.

channel scan? but then you said the TVGOS system is untouched.

Do you mean that changes you make in the TV Guide channel editor aren't lost?

(tho I suppose it might just be those of us fighting with the DTVPal digital convertor box that have had to do endless battles in the TV Guide channel editor. Everyone else just leaves things the way they are)

(that certainly was the case for me before getting involved with the DTVPal)
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post #277 of 1484 Old 05-14-2009, 08:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kev4321 View Post

8D in hex is 141 in decimal.
"AB" is 171 in decimal.

Since the DTVPal uses channel #'s like 100 + (CHANNEL.SUB * 10)
then
141 = 4.1 and & 171 = 7.1 ( analog compatible channel# - 100 ) / 10 )

My understanding of the DTVPal in TVGOS so far is a .0 sub = ANALOG, so 140 = 4.0 = Analog 4

P.S. For others not familiar with the DTVPal, it's a CECB that converts DTV (ATSC-Digital TV) signals to NTSC-Analog TV signals for older (legacy) analog equipment that cannot receive DTV (ATSC-Digital TV). It's also one of the few CECB devices that will also convert the Macrovision/Gemstar TVGOS data from digital to analog. When the legacy (older NTSC-Analog TV compatible) device gets the TV Guide, it expects analog channel numbers it can tune to (also, without the . or - that signify digital TV subchannels). So the legacy device tells the DTVPal to tune to channel 799 and the DTVPal then tunes to the virtual ATSC-digital channel 69.9, converts it to an NTSC-analog signal and passes it to the legacy device.
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post #278 of 1484 Old 05-14-2009, 09:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bwall23 View Post

Since the DTVPal uses channel #'s like 100 + (CHANNEL.SUB * 10)
then
141 = 4.1 and & 171 = 7.1 ( analog compatible channel# - 100 ) / 10 )

My understanding of the DTVPal in TVGOS so far is a .0 sub = ANALOG, so 140 = 4.0 = Analog 4

?the Pal can't tune analog stations

OTA only. For signal strength at your location: FCC DTV reception map
TVGOS data: Sony 250 from 5.1?, LG3410a from my DTVPal setup here, not any more.

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post #279 of 1484 Old 05-15-2009, 05:42 AM
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FWIW-I had been without TVGOS data for 1-2 months on my Panasonic DMR-E85H DVR on WOW (Wide Open West) Columbus, OH. I just noticed yesterday that I am now receiving data. After choosing my specific cable lineup and waiting overnight, I now have program listings, again. This is straight off the cable feed without a digital2analog converter box, too.

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post #280 of 1484 Old 05-15-2009, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by WildcatRay View Post

FWIW-I had been without TVGOS data for 1-2 months on my Panasonic DMR-E85H DVR on WOW (Wide Open West) Columbus, OH. I just noticed yesterday that I am now receiving data. After choosing my specific cable lineup and waiting overnight, I now have program listings, again. This is straight off the cable feed without a digital2analog converter box, too.

That sounds great. Well, I mean I know what it is like to be without. But I'm obvoiusly not in your area.

Someone recently showed up in the
"Dish DTVPal / Echostar TR40 digital to analog converter" thread here on 5/13/09 wanting to get the DTVPal to help get listings. Because they too have been without them on WOW Cable.

I'm curious what is your "Host Chan" set to?
(no I won't be asking you to get the VBI chan to be the same... )

http://zap2it.com/ -> TV -> Zipcode: 43109 -> "WOW - Cable Ready (Columbus)"
PBS: 7
CBS: 10

So I'd guess it is one of these. But I wonder which.
(And of course this stuff will be in hex for TVGOS 7 users)

This mentions how to get into diagnostic mode for the different versions of TVGOS.

Which is where you'll find that "Host Chan" value.

Some users of TVGOS have to press right arrow from the first screen to get to the screen with "Host Chan".

(sorry for saying anything you already know)
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post #281 of 1484 Old 05-15-2009, 12:13 PM
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What I don't understand is how people think all this jerry-rigging they're doing is going to somehow get the conversion feature to work.

Seems to me that once the system is put fully into place, all you need to do is follow the instructions for setup that the Pal manual gives you, and it'll work.

As I understand it (and according to Macrovision, the host channels, and the TVGOS device-manufacturers), the proper data signal hasn't even been placed in the broadcast signals everywhere yet. How is it going to work if it's not even in there?

Just set it up according to the Pal manual and wait. Or at least just put the Pal into TVGOS mode and leave it that way overnight every once in awhile. That seems to be about the only thing you really can do.

And spend your time on a hobby or activity that you can actually get something out of in the meantime.
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post #282 of 1484 Old 05-15-2009, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kev4321 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by WildcatRay View Post

FWIW-I had been without TVGOS data for 1-2 months on my Panasonic DMR-E85H DVR on WOW (Wide Open West) Columbus, OH. I just noticed yesterday that I am now receiving data. After choosing my specific cable lineup and waiting overnight, I now have program listings, again. This is straight off the cable feed without a digital2analog converter box, too.

That sounds great. Well, I mean I know what it is like to be without. But I'm obvoiusly not in your area.

Someone recently showed up in the
"Dish DTVPal / Echostar TR40 digital to analog converter" thread here on 5/13/09 wanting to get the DTVPal to help get listings. Because they too have been without them on WOW Cable.

I'm curious what is your "Host Chan" set to?
(no I won't be asking you to get the VBI chan to be the same... )

http://zap2it.com/ -> TV -> Zipcode: 43109 -> "WOW - Cable Ready (Columbus)"
PBS: 7
CBS: 10

So I'd guess it is one of these. But I wonder which.
(And of course this stuff will be in hex for TVGOS 7 users)

This mentions how to get into diagnostic mode for the different versions of TVGOS.

Which is where you'll find that "Host Chan" value.

Some users of TVGOS have to press right arrow from the first screen to get to the screen with "Host Chan".

(sorry for saying anything you already know)

My info:
Host ID = 0x2406
Host Chan = 0xA (or 10)
VBI = 0x3E

This is on the first page of the setup screens on my DVR. My assumption is that the TVGOS data is now being made available via analog as well as digital so that both are served.

Ray
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post #283 of 1484 Old 05-15-2009, 01:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WildcatRay View Post

My info:
Host ID = 0x2406
Host Chan = 0xA (or 10)
VBI = 0x3E

This is on the first page of the setup screens on my DVR. My assumption is that the TVGOS data is now being made available via analog as well as digital so that both are served.

thanks.

I'm only an over the air user presently. I still get my listings from a local PBS channel. I was surprised that CBS here is actually transmitting analog listings too. The signal isn't as strong for me as the PBS one. And an odd thing is that it doesn't transmit the TV Guide signal constantly like the PBS one does.

I talked about this here.

I'm sure during the times when actual transmissions of data are scheduled the signal will be detectable all the time. What I'm referring to is the 4 hours or so when no data transmissions are scheduled.

Here I have a chronology (scroll down until you see a bunch of numbers) showing when things are scheduled to be transferred for my PBS channel.

Yes this scheduling info will be different for each station. But I would imagine the durations and the number of transmissions will be pretty similar for all analog TVGOS.
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post #284 of 1484 Old 05-15-2009, 09:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rammitinski View Post

What I don't understand is how people think all this jerry-rigging they're doing is going to somehow get the conversion feature to work.

Seems to me that once the system is put fully into place, all you need to do is follow the instructions for setup that the Pal manual gives you, and it'll work.

As I understand it (and according to Macrovision, the host channels, and the TVGOS device-manufacturers), the proper data signal hasn't even been placed in the broadcast signals everywhere yet. How is it going to work if it's not even in there?

Just set it up according to the Pal manual and wait. Or at least just put the Pal into TVGOS mode and leave it that way overnight every once in awhile. That seems to be about the only thing you really can do.

And spend your time on a hobby or activity that you can actually get something out of in the meantime.

Keep following. I just got a DTVPal+ tonight (that's destined for another family member) and I'll be setting it up tomorrow on my so called digital compatible TVGOS v8 device that hasn't got a patch or grid in weeks. This should prove if the TVGOS data needed for a DTVPal is being sent out in my area. Those of us with a backup (TiVo is my MAIN DVR, not backup) don't have to be as impatient as those without (like we were).
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post #285 of 1484 Old 05-15-2009, 10:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avnstf View Post

?the Pal can't tune analog stations

Right, then you should read my P.S. Have you seen anyone post their 3 digit (or hex) (DTVPal converted) Host Station that ends in a zero?
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post #286 of 1484 Old 05-15-2009, 10:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kev4321 View Post

On the DTVPal when it is in TV Guide mode:

Any 3 digit number that ends in 0 should be treated this way:

140 - 100 = 40
40 / 10 = 4

Thanks for confirming exactly what I said.
We all know that 4 = 4.0 = 4
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post #287 of 1484 Old 05-15-2009, 10:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by bwall23 View Post

Not sure what's going on in Sacramento. It's been 14 days since I did a System Reset on my unit and all I have is my timezone (from a single timezone packet) and correct time. No lineup choice or grid yet. I'm connected OTA only to a rooftop UHF antenna (no comcast cable connected) and if KVIE-PBS analog 6 is actually transmitting TVGOS data again, I can't receive it with my UHF antenna. I haven't done any TVGOS tricks or codes (i.e. no G*Test or force host, etc. Just acting like a normal user) other than to look at the TVGOS diag screens once a day to see what's up. I did leave the set on and tuned to CBS digital for 6 hours today (from 2-8pm local time) to see if any diag screen counts increased and they didn't. Clock set channel has been (1:13-1) OTA Digital CBS KOVR 13-1 consistently since the reset. And since I was nice enough to post this for you, do me a favor and don't ask why nothing is attached to TVGOS input 0 until you read all my posts in this thread (this is not directed at you, avnstf).

P.S. for those who don't want to read the whole thread, my device is a Mitsubishi WD-57831 DLP RP with TVGOS 08.01.71, nothing attached to TVGOS input 0 (Mits ANT1) and a rooftop UHF attached to TVGOS input 1 (Mits ANT2).

20 days and nothing. I'm playing a Joe-6-pack user and not doing anything unusual. I'm installing a DTVPal+ tomorrow and will try it for 2 (two) days max. I'll report back if it works or not. Anyone have any suggestions? (No more than 2 days, no codes or tricks, only looking for setup suggestions and questions)

My plan is to hook it's (DTVPal+) input up to my UHF OTA antenna, it's output (set to channel 4) will go to my TVGOS device's (Mits WD-57831) ANT1 input which it thinks is cable and then I'll put the DTVPal+ into TVGOS mode and tune it (using the SA code on my Mits remote) to my supposed digital TVGOS channel (KOVR-CBS digital virtual channel 13.1 [a.k.a. physical carrier 25-1]) using channel#231.

Sound like a plan?
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post #288 of 1484 Old 05-15-2009, 11:23 PM
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Originally Posted by bwall23 View Post

20 days and nothing. I'm playing a Joe-6-pack user and not doing anything unusual. I'm installing a DTVPal+ tomorrow and will try it for 2 (two) days max. I'll report back if it works or not. Anyone have any suggestions? (No more than 2 days, no codes or tricks, only looking for setup suggestions and questions)

(What I just wrote below is mostly just what you wrote in your second paragraph, which I somehow missed..but I'm leaving it because it has some other thoughts in it and I'm too tird to rewrite it!)

well, you might set it up the way I've got my 3410a (see link below) and then - during a known download period (e.g., between 7 and 10 AM or 1:45 and 4:45 PM, in my case) - do a G*test on channel 3/4 (whichever you have set the Pal for). Actually, I don't remember what kind of unit you have, but I THINK it is a high-def device of some sort with an ATSC tuner, so that would be at least somewhat like my 2 units, and I'm also OTA only.

Anyway, if you see vbi, just turn your unit off overnight as usual, and see what you get...if you see progress, leave it off again the next night, etc...(actually, it might be that you should get a clock pretty fast,...I haven't kept these things straight...)

This, of course, assumes you know what your digital TVGOS channel is. (Of course, if you KNOW what the channel is, you might want to go to rabbit ears and see if there is a TSReader (?) result for Sacramento, and - if there is - what TV guide streams there are...you won't be looking for TVG1, which is the normal TVGOS stream (or TVG2, which is empty), but one that somehow has the number 110 associated with it....without that stream, the Pal isn't going to help you...

If you DON'T see vbi, I recommend you check the detailed procedure, over again...

alternatively, you can set things up as per the Pal INSTRUCTIONS for TVGOS mode, and see if that works...

But in either case, check with the G* test to see if vbi packets are coming with the converted output of the Pal when in TVGOS mode...if you don't see those yet, not much chance of getting anything...

OTA only. For signal strength at your location: FCC DTV reception map
TVGOS data: Sony 250 from 5.1?, LG3410a from my DTVPal setup here, not any more.

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post #289 of 1484 Old 05-16-2009, 07:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kev4321 View Post

Thanks.

channel scan? but then you said the TVGOS system is untouched.

Do you mean that changes you make in the TV Guide channel editor aren't lost?

(tho I suppose it might just be those of us fighting with the DTVPal digital convertor box that have had to do endless battles in the TV Guide channel editor. Everyone else just leaves things the way they are)

(that certainly was the case for me before getting involved with the DTVPal)

The channel scan doesn't effect the channels showing in the TV Guide channel editor screen.

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post #290 of 1484 Old 05-16-2009, 09:35 AM
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Ok, thanks.

I suppose my question might have seemed silly. But the following:

Quote:
Originally Posted by mabuttra View Post

Sony DHG-HDD250 here, with base version 08.01.71

...

'Reset User Configuration' in the 9012 menu.

...

just doesn't exist on my Panasonic DMR-EH75V with TVGOS 09.02.07.

There are no numbered menus. And none with that reset choice. That I've seen anyway.

So I appreciate the clarification.
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post #291 of 1484 Old 05-16-2009, 03:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kev4321 View Post

Ok, thanks.

I suppose my question might have seemed silly. But the following:



just doesn't exist on my Panasonic DMR-EH75V with TVGOS 09.02.07.

There are no numbered menus. And none with that reset choice. That I've seen anyway.

So I appreciate the clarification.

It wasn't silly at all. I had to stop and think for a moment whether a channel scan affects the TVGOS channel lineup. Also, since the G* Test on the Sony is in the same 9012 menu, I assumed that everyone would know what that was. On the Sony remote you can press menu, then the screen mode button, and then enter the number 9012, and it changes the displayed menu, to a new menu with several options.

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post #292 of 1484 Old 05-16-2009, 04:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bwall23 View Post

Not sure what's going on in Sacramento. It's been 14 days since I did a System Reset on my unit and all I have is my timezone (from a single timezone packet) and correct time. No lineup choice or grid yet. I'm connected OTA only to a rooftop UHF antenna (no comcast cable connected) and if KVIE-PBS analog 6 is actually transmitting TVGOS data again, I can't receive it with my UHF antenna. I haven't done any TVGOS tricks or codes (i.e. no G*Test or force host, etc. Just acting like a normal user) other than to look at the TVGOS diag screens once a day to see what's up. I did leave the set on and tuned to CBS digital for 6 hours today (from 2-8pm local time) to see if any diag screen counts increased and they didn't. Clock set channel has been (1:13-1) OTA Digital CBS KOVR 13-1 consistently since the reset. And since I was nice enough to post this for you, do me a favor and don't ask why nothing is attached to TVGOS input 0 until you read all my posts in this thread (this is not directed at you, avnstf).

P.S. for those who don't want to read the whole thread, my device is a Mitsubishi WD-57831 DLP RP with TVGOS 08.01.71, nothing attached to TVGOS input 0 (Mits ANT1) and a rooftop UHF attached to TVGOS input 1 (Mits ANT2).

20 days and nothing. I'm playing a Joe-6-pack user and not doing anything unusual. I'm installing a DTVPal+ tomorrow and will try it for 2 (two) days max. I'll report back if it works or not. Anyone have any suggestions? (No more than 2 days, no codes or tricks, only looking for setup suggestions and questions)

My plan is to hook it's (DTVPal+) input up to my UHF OTA antenna, it's output (set to channel 4) will go to my TVGOS device's (Mits WD-57831) ANT1 input which it thinks is cable and then I'll put the DTVPal+ into TVGOS mode and tune it (using the SA code on my Mits remote) to my supposed digital TVGOS channel (KOVR-CBS digital virtual channel 13.1 [a.k.a. physical carrier 25-1]) using channel#231.

Sound like a plan?

Today made 21 days in an all digital environment with no patch updates or grid. I setup up the DTVPal+, put in in TVGOS mode, used my Mits remote to send it the SA code to change channel to 231 (13.1), told the Mits to scan ANT1 to find the channel 4 output of the DTVPal+ and turned the Mits off at 11am. I'll check it after the last digital download is scheduled to end at 5:36pm.
Code:
        OTA_UHF_ANTENNA
              ||
          ____||____
         |          |
         | SPLITTER |
         |__________|
          | |    | |
          //      \\\\
         //   __   \\\\
        //   /__\\   \\\\
       //   //  \\\\   \\\\
      //   //    \\\\   \\\\
     //   //      \\\\   \\\\
    //   //       | |   \\\\
 __| |__| |___    | |    \\\\
|  IN   OUT   |   | |    | |
|       Ch4   |   | |    | |
|             |   | |    | |
|   DTVPal+   |   | |    | |
|in TVGOS mode|   | |    | |
|_____________|   | |    | |
              ____| |____| |____
             |   ANT1    ANT2   |
             |   Ch4    ALL CH's|
             |                  |
             |     Mits TV      |
             |__________________|
NOTE: I did not do a G*Test and I left the Mits TVGOS set to my REAL zipcode. The only thing I did on the Mits was a channel scan on ANT1 (from the Mits channel scan, nothing to do with TVGOS).

UPDATED: It works. Took less than 1hr to get the first patch, reset itself and about another hour to get the next patch and reset itself. When I turned it on it had full 8 days of listings, but it only had the channel I was tuned to turned on in the TVGOS channel editor. I enabled all my channels and turned it back off to get listings.

I forgot to mention that TVGOS on my Mits shows the Host Channel now as 0:0-4.
0: meaning TVGOS Input #0 = Mits TV ANT1.
0-4 meaning analog channel 4 which is what the DTVPal+ is outputting to my Mits TV.
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post #293 of 1484 Old 05-16-2009, 06:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bwall23 View Post

Thanks for confirming exactly what I said.
We all know that 4 = 4.0 = 4

Channels that only carry digital data should never be called analog.

1 and 2 digit channel numbers on the DTVPal or 3 digit numbers that end in zero tune to the channel which carries the virtual channels of the stations. Or nothing if there is no digital data located there.

The DTVPal happens to then tune to the highest virtual channel carried at the 1 or 2 digit channel number that you entered. (or 3 digit number that ends in zero that you entered)

My Zenith DTT901 tunes to the lowest virtual channel.

I make mistakes too. And I'll admit them when I or others have pointed them out. Usually though with some additional useful info about why it is I'm changing my position. Anyway, I'm sorry for any disruption I have caused. And I wish you well.
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post #294 of 1484 Old 05-16-2009, 07:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kev4321 View Post

Channels that only carry digital data should never be called analog.

1 and 2 digit channel numbers on the DTVPal or 3 digit numbers that end in zero tune to the channel which carries the virtual channels of the stations. Or nothing if there is no digital data located there.

The DTVPal happens to then tune to the highest virtual channel carried at the 1 or 2 digit channel number that you entered. (or 3 digit number that ends in zero that you entered)

My Zenith DTT901 tunes to the lowest virtual channel.

I make mistakes too. And I'll admit them when I or others have pointed them out. Usually though with some additional useful info about why it is I'm changing my position. Anyway, I'm sorry for any disruption I have caused. And I wish you well.

I agree that the DTVPal's don't tune to analog channels. But, when the DTVPal is in TVGOS mode and you use a remote to send the SA codes to change the channel and the number ends in a zero, the DTVPal gives you a blank screen. I also found it will not take a physical channel# when in the TVGOS mode. It only takes virtual channel numbers.

Example: Digital Channel (virtual) 13.1 (physical) 25.1
While the DTVPal is in TVGOS mode, use a remote in SA mode to send the following digits;

VIRTUAL Channel
0013 - blank screen
0230 - blank screen ((13.0 * 10) + 100)
0231 - tunes to 13.1 ((13.1 * 10) + 100)

PHYSICAL Channel
0025 - blank screen
0350 - blank screen ((25.0 * 10) + 100)
0351 - blank screen ((25.1 * 10) + 100)

STRANGE, after I put the DTVPal back into normal mode and then back into TVGOS mode, here's what's happening;

Example1: Digital Channel (virtual) 13.1 (physical) 25.1 [NOTE: only 1 subchannel here]
While the DTVPal is in TVGOS mode, use a remote in SA mode to send the following digits;

VIRTUAL Channel
0013 - blank
0230 - blank ((13.0 * 10) + 100)
0231 - tunes to 13.1 ((13.1 * 10) + 100)

PHYSICAL Channel
0025 - tunes to 13.1
0350 - tunes to 13.1 ((25.0 * 10) + 100)
0351 - ERROR, 25-1 not found ((25.1 * 10) + 100)


Example2: Digital Channel (virtual) 6.1 (physical) 53.1 [NOTE: 3 subchannels here]
While the DTVPal is in TVGOS mode, use a remote in SA mode to send the following digits;

VIRTUAL Channel
0006 - blank
0160 - blank ((6.0 * 10) + 100)
0161 - tunes to 6.1 ((6.1 * 10) + 100)

PHYSICAL Channel
0053 - tunes to 6.3
0630 - tunes to 6.3 ((53.0 * 10) + 100)
0631 - ERROR, 53-1 not found ((53.1 * 10) + 100)
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post #295 of 1484 Old 05-16-2009, 11:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bwall23 View Post


UPDATED: It works. Took less than 1hr to get the first patch, reset itself and about another hour to get the next patch and reset itself. When I turned it on it had full 8 days of listings, but it only had the channel I was tuned to turned on in the TVGOS channel editor. I enabled all my channels and turned it back off to get listings.

I forgot to mention that TVGOS on my Mits shows the Host Channel now as 0:0-4.
0: meaning TVGOS Input #0 = Mits TV ANT1.
0-4 meaning analog channel 4 which is what the DTVPal+ is outputting to my Mits TV.

glad to hear it's working!

...that should mean MY setup will work for my 3410a when the analog broadcasts evaporate...and should also work for my Sony 250, if necessary (i.e., if the much praised Sony upgrade does NOT do the job claimed by Sony)...

OTA only. For signal strength at your location: FCC DTV reception map
TVGOS data: Sony 250 from 5.1?, LG3410a from my DTVPal setup here, not any more.

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post #296 of 1484 Old 05-17-2009, 12:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avnstf View Post

glad to hear it's working!

The best part is that it was done in the "Joe-6-Pack mode". No G*test or TVGOS codes or resets. The hardest parts for the average "Joe-6-Pack" user would be;
#1 - the hookup (I drew a stone age picture)
#2 - figure out what channel is your digital TVGOS Host Channel
#3 - use a remote to send SA box codes to DTVPal while in TVGOS mode
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post #297 of 1484 Old 05-17-2009, 01:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bwall23 View Post

Today made 21 days in an all digital environment with no patch updates or grid. I setup up the DTVPal+, put in in TVGOS mode, used my Mits remote to send it the SA code to change channel to 231 (13.1), told the Mits to scan ANT1 to find the channel 4 output of the DTVPal+ and turned the Mits off at 11am. I'll check it after the last digital download is scheduled to end at 5:36pm.
Code:
        OTA_UHF_ANTENNA
              ||
          ____||____
         |          |
         | SPLITTER |
         |__________|
          | |    | |
          //      \\\\
         //   __   \\\\
        //   /__\\   \\\\
       //   //  \\\\   \\\\
      //   //    \\\\   \\\\
     //   //      \\\\   \\\\
    //   //       | |   \\\\
 __| |__| |___    | |    \\\\
|  IN   OUT   |   | |    | |
|       Ch4   |   | |    | |
|             |   | |    | |
|   DTVPal+   |   | |    | |
|in TVGOS mode|   | |    | |
|_____________|   | |    | |
              ____| |____| |____
             |   ANT1    ANT2   |
             |   Ch4    ALL CH's|
             |                  |
             |     Mits TV      |
             |__________________|
NOTE: I did not do a G*Test and I left the Mits TVGOS set to my REAL zipcode. The only thing I did on the Mits was a channel scan on ANT1 (from the Mits channel scan, nothing to do with TVGOS).

UPDATED: It works. Took less than 1hr to get the first patch, reset itself and about another hour to get the next patch and reset itself. When I turned it on it had full 8 days of listings, but it only had the channel I was tuned to turned on in the TVGOS channel editor. I enabled all my channels and turned it back off to get listings.

I forgot to mention that TVGOS on my Mits shows the Host Channel now as 0:0-4.
0: meaning TVGOS Input #0 = Mits TV ANT1.
0-4 meaning analog channel 4 which is what the DTVPal+ is outputting to my Mits TV.


hi bwall23 - be careful with this setup and your mits.. i'm not running the same mits ( mine = LT-46246 with v9 tvgos ), but i suspect what you are seeing is the same as what i am seeing... as follows -

diag matrix screen 1-2 system stats shows host chan = 1:4-0 ( for me this means 2nd RF input, connected directly to PAL RF out channel 4... so far so good...BUT, the mits 1st RF input = COX Cable ( keep this in mind as you read on )...

diag screen 7-1 input config screen show configurations for 1st and 2nd RF inputs... all config stats are populated for the 1st RF input ( cox cable ), but the 2nd ( PAL direct ) only has the 1st and 5th ( of 5 available ) columns populated...

for the moment, i'm pretty sure that the pal is NOT feeding good data to the mits, since the pal is also connected directly to my panny DMR-E95 analog only V7 TVGOS, which has yet to come to life after several configurations...

however, the mits has, and continues to receive TVGOS ( daily version ) updates. i suspect that even though the diag screen lists 1:4-0 ( pal input ) as the host channel, the indicated VBI channel is locked on 0:8-1 ( local CBS feed via cox cable )... in addition, diag screen matrix 4-2 ' other-clocks 2,
lists ' clock source ' as ' guide ' and ' clock set channel ' as ' 0:8-1 ' ...

go figure... to me, this indicates that even though the host channel is 1:4-0, my listings are currently being ' found ' by the mits on the local cbs affiliate feed from cox cable...

still testing stuff here in hope to get the pal to function for the old panny analog system...
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post #298 of 1484 Old 05-17-2009, 01:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rkg22 View Post

diag matrix screen 1-2 system stats shows host chan = 1:4-0

That's different. On my v8 device that would be a digital channel. Analog would be 1:0-4.
Are you sure you have the DTVPal in TVGOS mode?
Are you using a GLink cable or just tuning the DTVPal to your digital host station after you put it in TVGOS mode with a remote that sends SA box codes?
Are you using your real zipcode or the alternate zipcode in your Mits TVGOS setup?
Quote:
diag screen 7-1 input config screen show configurations for 1st and 2nd RF inputs... all config stats are populated for the 1st RF input ( cox cable ), but the 2nd ( PAL direct ) only has the 1st and 5th ( of 5 available ) columns populated...

Look at the config and tvcCfg columns. The capitalized letter shows the input type. A=Antenna, B=cableBox, C=Cableready or Cablecard, D=DirecTV, S=Sattelite. Also check the System-System Info screen for Video Source which says where TVGOS will look for VBI data.
Quote:
the indicated VBI channel is locked on 0:8-1 ( local CBS feed via cox cable )... in addition, diag screen matrix 4-2 ' other-clocks 2,
lists ' clock source ' as ' guide ' and ' clock set channel ' as ' 0:8-1 ' ...

VBI channel is just the last channel the TVGOS tuned to.
Quote:
go figure... to me, this indicates that even though the host channel is 1:4-0, my listings are currently being ' found ' by the mits on the local cbs affiliate feed from cox cable...

quite possible in a mixed analog/digital environment.
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post #299 of 1484 Old 05-17-2009, 04:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bwall23 View Post

UPDATED: It works. Took less than 1hr to get the first patch, reset itself and about another hour to get the next patch and reset itself. When I turned it on it had full 8 days of listings, but it only had the channel I was tuned to turned on in the TVGOS channel editor. I enabled all my channels and turned it back off to get listings.

Hi...I'm curious to know what you have today...after thinking about what you said, I'm a bit puzzled, in particular about getting 8 days of listings...if you were getting program listings from the legacy stream (and via the Pal), I would expect you to see days 1,2,5,8 during the first day, since this is the pattern for the analog broadcasts...

is it possible that use of the Pal got you OTHER TVGOS data that enabled your unit to get digital data, which your unit then found from the direct antenna connection (or from digital feed through from the Pal, which I observed in my initial testing of the Pal months ago...i.e., the Pal in TVGOS mode acts like a high-pass filter)?

Either way, if it works, it works...but I'm now wondering where you are getting data from...

OTA only. For signal strength at your location: FCC DTV reception map
TVGOS data: Sony 250 from 5.1?, LG3410a from my DTVPal setup here, not any more.

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post #300 of 1484 Old 05-17-2009, 08:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avnstf View Post

Hi...I'm curious to know what you have today...after thinking about what you said, I'm a bit puzzled, in particular about getting 8 days of listings...if you were getting program listings from the legacy stream (and via the Pal), I would expect you to see days 1,2,5,8 during the first day, since this is the pattern for the analog broadcasts...

is it possible that use of the Pal got you OTHER TVGOS data that enabled your unit to get digital data, which your unit then found from the direct antenna connection (or from digital feed through from the Pal, which I observed in my initial testing of the Pal months ago...i.e., the Pal in TVGOS mode acts like a high-pass filter)?

Either way, if it works, it works...but I'm now wondering where you are getting data from...

I'm pretty sure the full 8 days of listings are coming via digital CBS. I just had to kick start it with analog via the DTVPal. Remember that after I reset it in an all digital environment, I wasn't able to get patches or a grid after waiting 21 days. On day 21, I hooked up the Pal and same day got both patches, a grid and 8 days of listings. I'll be out of town for the week, so won't be able to check on it 'til next weekend. Just to make sure, I switched inputs tonight and rescanned channels on my Mits. The DTVPal outputting on CH4 is now connected to ANT2 (TVGOS Input 1) and my UHF OTA antenna is now connected to ANT1 (TVGOS Input 0).
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