TVGOS ( TV Guide On Screen ) Devices - Page 16 - AVS Forum
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post #451 of 1484 Old 08-01-2009, 09:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AtlantisMichael View Post

If you Panny is an analog device using analog TVGOS, then you would need to use the blaster to change the channel back to the host during the download period. I am not sure what you are trying to do. I know you said you are getting your primary programming through your cable for your complex, but it is not carrying TVGOS which you are only able to get OTA. I do not think you will be able to join the signals together and have it work properly as the siganls from both sources will conflict at some point with each other. If the Panny IN3 works as they say, then leaving it (DTVPal) tuned to the host channel may just work, but will the Panny look for the host there? I don't know, as I have a very old Panny which does not have TVGOS.
But my girlfriend has an E85, which I will check out this weekend. Will let you know what I find.
Michael

Yes, I have an analog Pannny using analog TVGOS. What I'm trying to accomplish is to get TVGOS working through IN3 without using the IR Blaster. The digital PAL receiver would only be used to get TVGOS. I'm not interested in digital the tv stations available through the PAL.This is what I've done. I went in to "setup" and selected "Change Channel Display." The TVGOS menu displayed two sets of stations; One set of stations says "cable" and the other set of stations says "cable box." This makes sense, because I've got two signals coming in: one from the building coax and the other from the PAL via IN3. Since I'm not interested in two sets of CBS (one digital and one analog), NBC, FOX, etc., I've disabled all of the digital stations. The thing I haven't yet to determine is how to eliminate the IR Blaster without disabling TVGOS. I haven't tried it yet, but I plan on unplugging the blaster to see if TVGOS will still work with my present setup. If that doesn't work, I'll try reactivating the digital CBS through the "Change Channel Display" menu and see if that allows me to get TVGOS through IN3. Sorry for the lengthy post, just trying to provide enough information that may be helpful to others on the forum.
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post #452 of 1484 Old 08-01-2009, 01:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AtlantisMichael View Post

If you Panny is an analog device using analog TVGOS, then you would need to use the blaster to change the channel back to the host during the download period. I am not sure what you are trying to do. I know you said you are getting your primary programming through your cable for your complex, but it is not carrying TVGOS which you are only able to get OTA. I do not think you will be able to join the signals together and have it work properly as the siganls from both sources will conflict at some point with each other. If the Panny IN3 works as they say, then leaving it (DTVPal) tuned to the host channel may just work, but will the Panny look for the host there? I don't know, as I have a very old Panny which does not have TVGOS.
But my girlfriend has an E85, which I will check out this weekend. Will let you know what I find.
Michael

I have an E85, too. I would like to know if/how this works even though I have receiving the TVGOS via my local CBS affiliate via cable. OTA only are not getting the data currently as there is some issue that is affecting the OTA broadcast, but not cable customers.

Ray
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post #453 of 1484 Old 08-02-2009, 11:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Updated first post in thread to try and to clarify confusing TVGOS versions, per suggestion.
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post #454 of 1484 Old 08-03-2009, 07:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sjohnson View Post

Yes, I have an analog Pannny using analog TVGOS. What I'm trying to accomplish is to get TVGOS working through IN3 without using the IR Blaster. The digital PAL receiver would only be used to get TVGOS. I'm not interested in digital the tv stations available through the PAL.This is what I've done. I went in to "setup" and selected "Change Channel Display." The TVGOS menu displayed two sets of stations; One set of stations says "cable" and the other set of stations says "cable box." This makes sense, because I've got two signals coming in: one from the building coax and the other from the PAL via IN3. Since I'm not interested in two sets of CBS (one digital and one analog), NBC, FOX, etc., I've disabled all of the digital stations. The thing I haven't yet to determine is how to eliminate the IR Blaster without disabling TVGOS. I haven't tried it yet, but I plan on unplugging the blaster to see if TVGOS will still work with my present setup. If that doesn't work, I'll try reactivating the digital CBS through the "Change Channel Display" menu and see if that allows me to get TVGOS through IN3. Sorry for the lengthy post, just trying to provide enough information that may be helpful to others on the forum.

If you can get TVGOS through IN3 then it would stand to reason that you could just set your Pal to the host and leave it that way. If it does not turn it self off automatically, then that should work. But if the Pal does have an auto off that can not be changed, then you would have to use the blaster to control the Pal to turn it on and set the selected host channel.
Since the option of input is there, then using ota with the pal fed into IN3 should not cause any conflict. As long as you specify IN3 for the Pal it should work per the manual. I just don't have any information on the Pal operation, so can not really say if you can get by without the blaster.
From what I read on the E85, it tells you to use L3 (same as IN3 on yours) if you have a better jack such as S-video for better picture quality. The signal is still analog so it seems reasonable for it to pass the TVGOS that way.
Anyway, let us know how it goes.
Michael
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post #455 of 1484 Old 08-04-2009, 07:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sjohnson View Post

Yes, I have an analog Pannny using analog TVGOS. What I'm trying to accomplish is to get TVGOS working through IN3 without using the IR Blaster. The digital PAL receiver would only be used to get TVGOS. .

Quote:
Originally Posted by AtlantisMichael View Post

If you can get TVGOS through IN3 then it would stand to reason that you could just set your Pal to the host and leave it that way. If it does not turn it self off automatically, then that should work. But if the Pal does have an auto off that can not be changed, then you would have to use the blaster to control the Pal to turn it on and set the selected host channel.
Michael

In TVGOS mode the Pal does not turn off. The inactivity standby for the Pal can be disabled in regular mode. If you're not using the Pal to watch or record channels through the Panny then you shouldn't need the IR blaster since the host channel lock and actual feed come through the cable between the Pal and Panny. The IR blaster just allows the Panny to change the channels on the Pal.
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post #456 of 1484 Old 08-05-2009, 08:10 AM
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My DTVPal DVR has a 7 day program guide that uses TVGOS data when available and PSIP where TVGOS is not available. For most of the Philadelphia stations a full 7 days of listings is available. The exception is WHYY for which only 24 hours of data is available. This has been true consistently over a period of several months and several successive firmware versions for the DTVPal DVR. I can think of 5 possible reasons, none of which seem terribly plausible:

1. WHYY is not communicating listings data to TV Guide. This seems particularly unlikely since the TV Guide website has several weeks worth of listings for WHYY.
2. TV Guide is not transmitting the data to TVGOS.
3. TVGOS is not transmitting the data to KYW, the Philadelphia station that transmits TVGOS.
4. KYW is not transmitting the guide data for WHYY.
5. There is a glitch in the DTVPal DVR firmware that causes it to list only 24 hours of listings for WHYY while showing 7 days of information for other stations.

None of these reasons seem plausible because they each require that the problem be specific to one particular station. There are some really smart knowledgeable people who post here and monitor these forums. Anyone have any ideas?
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post #457 of 1484 Old 08-05-2009, 09:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jafi1 View Post

In TVGOS mode the Pal does not turn off.

However, there is a catch, for sjohnson's application. People have reported that if they leave the Pal tuned to the same channel continuously, it stops converting TVGOS data after a few days. If they change channels on the Pal, away from the TVGOS host channel and then back to it, the TVGOS data starts again.

In normal operation of the Pal in TVGOS mode, this problem doesn't arise because some other device is controlling it via an IR blaster, which changes channels to whatever the user wants to watch, and automatically tunes the Pal to the TVGOS host channel when necessary.

I might as well also note for people who are unfamiliar with this procedure, that when the Pal is in TVGOS mode, it does not respond to its own remote, except for the power button, which reboots it into normal mode. In order to change channels on the Pal manually when it is in TVGOS mode, you have to use a universal remote set to control a Scientific Atlanta cable box, because this is what the Pal expects to receive from an IR blaster. Furthermore, you have to modify the digital channel number by dropping the period or dash and adding 100. For example, my digital TVGOS host channel is 49.1, so I have to enter "591".

Going further, in order to get TVGOS data from the Pal, you must tune the Pal to the host channel while it is in TVGOS mode, using Scientific Atlanta cable box codes. You do not get TVGOS data when you tune the Pal to the host channel using its own remote, before putting it in TVGOS mode.
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post #458 of 1484 Old 08-05-2009, 12:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by otaguy View Post

My DTVPal DVR has a 7 day program guide that uses TVGOS data when available and PSIP where TVGOS is not available. For most of the Philadelphia stations a full 7 days of listings is available. The exception is WHYY for which only 24 hours of data is available. This has been true consistently over a period of several months and several successive firmware versions for the DTVPal DVR. I can think of 5 possible reasons, none of which seem terribly plausible:

1. WHYY is not communicating listings data to TV Guide. This seems particularly unlikely since the TV Guide website has several weeks worth of listings for WHYY.
2. TV Guide is not transmitting the data to TVGOS.
3. TVGOS is not transmitting the data to KYW, the Philadelphia station that transmits TVGOS.
4. KYW is not transmitting the guide data for WHYY.
5. There is a glitch in the DTVPal DVR firmware that causes it to list only 24 hours of listings for WHYY while showing 7 days of information for other stations.

None of these reasons seem plausible because they each require that the problem be specific to one particular station. There are some really smart knowledgeable people who post here and monitor these forums. Anyone have any ideas?

I have a similar situation for WPXJ here. I have ruled out 5 since other TVGOS devices in my area don't see its data either. I agree on your analysis on 1.

As for 2, 3, or 4, I don't believe there's a way for us mere mortals to do a diagnosis since this is all inside the tvgos black box.
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post #459 of 1484 Old 08-05-2009, 12:51 PM
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Well, maybe with 2,3 and 4 with enough phone calls and / or emails to the various parties involved it will be possible to get to the bottom of it.
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post #460 of 1484 Old 08-05-2009, 02:17 PM
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Latest TVGOS Update:

The TV Guide data signal includes two streams; (1) the HD DTV format TVGOS and (2) recently added the backwards compatible format for analog devices. Some set top boxes use the backwards compatible data when they down convert the signal to SD NTSC, so that older analog sets continue to receive the Guide data.

The cable headends should also extract the backwards compatible data when they down convert the signal to SD NTSC.

New HD DTV sets will use the DTV formatted data.

That is how the system is designed to operate, however, the Cable MSO’s and individual set top boxes may not have fully implemented the necessary protocols and hardware.

'Better Living Through Modern, Expensive, Electronic Devices'

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post #461 of 1484 Old 08-05-2009, 08:43 PM
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...pretty old news, I'm afraid, Ken...BUT...

What I'd REALLY like to know, based on my experiments with my LG and Sony, is this: why does the legacy v7 data carried by our Comcast cable (which we have just ended) work for my LG, whereas the data converted by my DTVPal DOES NOT???? Aren't they BOTH converting from the same leagacy digital data stream AND aren't they BOTH supposed to be the same (after conversion) as the broadcast data stream prior to June 12????

The TVGOS people have been totally unhelpful about questions like this...

(For your info, when I fed the DTVPal output to my Sony 250, it switched to the channel 3 output of the Pal essentially immediately, got a full local OTA lineup AND a 1,2,4,8 days set of listings by the next day...demonstrating, as far as I can interpret, that the Pal output contains the TVGOS data - in that case v8 - labeled by my real zip code, and including all the local digital channels except for PBS 9.1.

When I do the comparable thing with my LG, it shows that it is seeing the required A and B packets in the DTVPal output, and within a day the LG fastens onto the Pal output as host channel AND gets the local OTA channel output...but here it stops, not one program listing since June 12....

So in both cases, I get the REAL digital channel lineups in these units, which are both digital high-def units, of course, but the LG doesn't get listings...

So basically my question is, if the legacy stream actually CONTAINS the actual digital lineups and listings for each REAL zip code, and the listings are successfully received by the Sony v8 AND by the v7 LG via cable, but NOT via the much-vaunted (since mid-2008) Pal, WHAT has changed to make the legacy data NOT EXACTLY legacy data, and WHY????

As I say, for us peons who have been trying one thing after another, it doesn't seem possible to get an answer to this basic question from TVGOS, but maybe YOU can!!!

We'd be extremely grateful...Tony

(And I do mean really, REALLY grateful....)

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TVGOS data: Sony 250 from 5.1?, LG3410a from my DTVPal setup here, not any more.

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post #462 of 1484 Old 08-06-2009, 09:42 AM
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I finally decided to flash my '07 Mits TV with the (hopefully) proper firmware inspite of receiving it in the wrong memory format (USB instead of CF card).

The version number now shows V8.04 instead of 8.03.

The flash procedure is different from the other version. The TV does not power up after the flash. After the Power LED stops flashing (around two minutes), you can unplug the TV, remove the card and plug it back in again. Then power it up after it initalizes itself. Unlike the other firmware, you do have to rescan all the channels.

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post #463 of 1484 Old 08-08-2009, 04:09 PM
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I didn't see any Samsungs in the list?

Model: Samsung HLR-5678
TVGOS Version: 08.01.42/08.06.44

PBS Channel 5 apparently gave us the analog TVGOS data.

Alas, ALL GONE.

I've just returned from Sears where I bought a DTVPAL +
If I can absorb all this setup information, maybe I'll see my TVGOS return?

Thanks for all the info folks.

George
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post #464 of 1484 Old 08-09-2009, 12:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ABQGeo View Post

I didn't see any Samsungs in the list?

Model: Samsung HLR-5678
TVGOS Version: 08.01.42/08.06.44

PBS Channel 5 apparently gave us the analog TVGOS data.

Alas, ALL GONE.

I've just returned from Sears where I bought a DTVPAL +
If I can absorb all this setup information, maybe I'll see my TVGOS return?

Thanks for all the info folks.

George

It's in the list now. Good luck with the DTVPal+, it should work if they're transmitting the data.
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post #465 of 1484 Old 08-10-2009, 07:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtbell View Post

However, there is a catch, for sjohnson's application. People have reported that if they leave the Pal tuned to the same channel continuously, it stops converting TVGOS data after a few days. If they change channels on the Pal, away from the TVGOS host channel and then back to it, the TVGOS data starts again.

In normal operation of the Pal in TVGOS mode, this problem doesn't arise because some other device is controlling it via an IR blaster, which changes channels to whatever the user wants to watch, and automatically tunes the Pal to the TVGOS host channel when necessary.


In my case, I can conform what jtbell said is true. I tried disconnecting my IR Blaster from my Panasonic DMR-EH75v over the weekend to see if I could download TVGOS through IN3 without the blaster, and the Panny stopped downloading TVGOS. After reconnecting the blaster, it resumed downloading TVGOS. So, I guess I'll have to continue to use the blaster. Oh well, at least it's working for me.
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post #466 of 1484 Old 08-10-2009, 09:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtbell View Post

However, there is a catch, for sjohnson's application. People have reported that if they leave the Pal tuned to the same channel continuously, it stops converting TVGOS data after a few days. If they change channels on the Pal, away from the TVGOS host channel and then back to it, the TVGOS data starts again.

I actually found that with my Pal in front of my 3410a, as described in the link below, TVGOS data continued to be converted at least for a week or two at a time, judging from the detection of A and B packets by my 3410a...although at first I thought there was a 2 or 3 day problem with the conversion, I concluded that wasn't the case fo the conversion...there was, however, a problem with my 3410a, which - although it finds the Pal's channel 3 output as host channel, and gets a channel lineup, it doesn't accept the output for the listings and, after some time even gives up on the output as host channel...

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TVGOS data: Sony 250 from 5.1?, LG3410a from my DTVPal setup here, not any more.

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post #467 of 1484 Old 08-11-2009, 12:15 AM - Thread Starter
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post #468 of 1484 Old 08-14-2009, 09:47 PM
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TV MODEL: Samsung HLR-5678

This tv has an OTA connector with a built-in ATSC tuner in addition to a standard Cable input. I do not use a cable tuner box.

The option to put a box on the OTA connector and have it switch channels via G-link was not available in the TVGOS setup.

I decided to split the OTA signal before the DTVPAL+ and then recombine the Channel 3 output with the OTA signal and stuff that into the OTA connector. Voila!

I set the DTVPAL+ to the digital station that I knew was carrying the TVGOS signal digitally. That turns out to be KNME Channel 5.1 here in Albuquerque. I then followed the instructions in the DTVPAL's manual for setting it up to pass the TVGOS in an analog manner to the Channel 3 output. I ignored the part about using the G-Link.......it's NOT NEEDED. You just set the DTVPAL to the station transmitting TVGOS data and leave it there! It's been running this way for three days now and I have not had the problem others have mentioned that the DTVPAL stops outputting TVGOS if left unattended? Perhaps different firmware versions work differently?

I have Comcast cable plugged into the Cable input of the tv as well.

I rescanned the OTA and the CABLE input and waited over night.

Tada, I've got TVGOS and I can change channels using the Sammy's remote. There are a whole bunch of crap channels in my list however, and editing them does not seem to work? For whatever reason, the channel lineup is the way I left it back in June which is ok for now?

Since a picture is worth 10,000 words or something like that, I have attached (I couldn't figure out how to insert it here) a jpeg to clarify my connection scheme.

On another note: Most of us know about the magic "X"/"I" keys (753159852) to get to the TVGOS data screens.

I found in another post this tidbit about entering 179324865 with the "Change System Settings" highlighted. When I do this with my version(s) 8.1.42/8.6.44 up pops a window that says, "Enable ATSC" ??????

Hmmm, does this mean that this pre version 9 software will actually decode the digital TCGOS data? Right now, I'm enjoying having the tv guide back too much to do much experimenting. Especially with this waiting 24 hours for results.


Albuquerque George
LL
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post #469 of 1484 Old 08-15-2009, 09:00 AM
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I ordered and received the ARTEC CECB, did the routine on the Sony DVR and then did the routine on the Mits DLP. I have grids on both now. BUT,

My situation is this: I have FOUR possible 'host' channels.
1. OTA PBS affilate 43.2 (the target station),
2. OTA CTV affilate analog 9 (Toronto),
3. CATV SCTE127 analog channel 3 version of host #1 (that use to work, but hasent for the past 3 weeks),
4. CATV CTV affilate analog channel 12.

What use to happen is these systems seem to keep on winding up landing on either OTA ch. 9 or cable ch. 12. Now it seems it's just cable ch. 12. I even leave the tuners on OTA 43.2, but that doesn't help. This first stage of assigning a channel lineup and acquiring a host station doesn't happen.
Since the output of the Artec was channel 3 and the SCTE127 cable channel is also ch. 3, both devices show cable ch. 3 as the host. I didn't think to switch the CECB over to ch. 4 at the time. Will the 'host' channel change after the 00000 routine and the Artec removed?

BTW, the Mits had a grid in 8 hours (overnight). There wasn't any change with the newer firmware even after 8 days.

Abundant OTA television is what makes this country different from all others. Lets keep it this way.
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post #470 of 1484 Old 08-17-2009, 04:26 PM
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I recently called Mitsubishi stating that my TV was not picking up TVGOS after the digital conversion. They said there was a new firmware/software upgrade and sent it to me. After installing, and doing all the setup (channel scan, turning on TV Guide, Audio/Video settings, etc), and leaving the set turned off over night. The next day, the TVGOS was fully populated (at least 7 days worth).

Here is the info for the TV:

TV: Mitsubishi LT-46231 (46" LCD)
TV F/W-S/W version: VLP33+ 008.32
I have only enabled TVGOS for Ant-1 which is OTA (no DTVPal, or anything else, just an antenna)
TVGOS version: 08.01.71/08.06.44/00.00.00/00040005/64/000
Host Channel: 0:18-0

This is the link to RabbitEars.info for my location:
http://www.rabbitears.info/market.ph...=53843#station

When I first turn on the TV, the display shows channel 18, but when I select info on the remote, it then displays as 19-1. Channel 18 is not even one that is picked up during the channel scan. I am not sure why I am getting the TVGOS populated, but after the firmware update, it seems to work.
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post #471 of 1484 Old 08-18-2009, 07:04 AM
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That post surely isn't making my day.
What is the mfg. date on the TV?

One would think 18-0 would indicate an analog channel, but apparently it doesn't.

Abundant OTA television is what makes this country different from all others. Lets keep it this way.
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post #472 of 1484 Old 08-18-2009, 07:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by videobruce View Post

One would think 18-0 would indicate an analog channel, but apparently it doesn't.

18-0 does indicate a digital channel. 0-18 would indicate an analog channel.

Don't ever make the MISTAKE of buying a Samsung TV..
They consider THIS
normal on a two month old set..
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post #473 of 1484 Old 08-18-2009, 07:57 AM
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18-1 should indicate a digital channel, 0-18 should indicate an analog channel.
The diagonstic screens show it both ways depending on the sceen you are in.

In order; digital, digital and analog, then digital. Not a chance of any confusing here.
LL
LL
LL

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post #474 of 1484 Old 08-18-2009, 08:18 AM
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WNED embeds the TVGOS data on 17-2 rather than 17-1 (as most stations would), so it would make sense to me that 18-0 would be used for the first subchannel and 18-1 for the second, since KCPT embeds it in 19-1 and not 19-2.

(This is confusing.)

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post #475 of 1484 Old 08-18-2009, 08:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by videobruce View Post

18-1 should indicate a digital channel, 0-18 should indicate an analog channel.
The diagonstic screens show it both ways depending on the sceen you are in.

In order; digital, digital and analog, then digital. Not a chance of any confusing here.



Bruce -

For whatever the reason, the digital subchannel number is not always shown in the HostChan field. The picture above indicates the physical channel number (0:11-0) of my local PBS station (virtual 12.1) which was the HostChan for one of my HDD500's at the time the picture was taken.

Don't ever make the MISTAKE of buying a Samsung TV..
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normal on a two month old set..
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post #476 of 1484 Old 08-18-2009, 08:44 AM
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so it would make sense to me that 18-0 would be used for the first subchannel and 18-1 for the second

18-0 might indicate that it is the 6 MHz spectrum assigned for that station. 18.1 tells me that it is the main channel of that same spectrum. Note, I avoided to use the term 'channel' when referring just to "18".
That setup conterdicts different menu entries as I stated. Why would/should the SAME channel be listed as 43-0 & 17.1?

Quote:


For whatever the reason, the digital subchannel number is not always shown in the HostChan field.

No practical reason, especially when the next number is shown correctly.

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post #477 of 1484 Old 08-18-2009, 09:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by videobruce View Post

18-0 might indicate that it is the 6 MHz spectrum assigned for that station. 18.1 tells me that it is the main channel of that same spectrum. Note, I avoided to use the term 'channel' when referring just to "18".
That setup conterdicts different menu entries as I stated. Why would/should the SAME channel be listed as 43-0 & 17.1?

Because nobody ever said the TVGOS setup had to make sense.

I've received countless reports from people who reported to me (for website updating purposes) that they saw 11-0 or 18-0 or 25-0 for their TVGOS host, and I was able to get TSReader data showing those stations to have it attached to the first subchannel (42-1, 19-1, 6-1) on the station with those as their physical channel numbers.

WNED attaches the data to 17-2, not 17-1. It would logically make sense for it to not show 43-0 and instead show something else, such as 43-1, as your host channel.

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post #478 of 1484 Old 08-18-2009, 09:15 AM
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I'm not disputing you, it's just it's one more unnecessary 'quirk' we have to deal with. On top of it, they also use the 'virtiual' channel number.

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post #479 of 1484 Old 08-18-2009, 10:00 AM
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Ah, yeah. It's silly.

- Trip

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post #480 of 1484 Old 08-18-2009, 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by videobruce View Post

That post surely isn't making my day.
What is the mfg. date on the TV?

One would think 18-0 would indicate an analog channel, but apparently it doesn't.

Manufacture Date is April 2007. I think I bought it in August 2007.

If you want me to do some pictures of anything, let me know.
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