TVGOS ( TV Guide On Screen ) Devices - Page 3 - AVS Forum
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Old 03-04-2009, 11:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by avnstf View Post

May I ask where you got this map?...it's clearly helpful for figuring out what's going on with a Sony 250 (which I have), but I'm curious if the same source had comparable info for version 7 ( and therefore my LG3410a)...thanks

OK, but you're going to hate hearing this because it's so simple...

I sat in front of the TV with a pencil and paper, sketched it as I used the arrow keys, keyed it into excel and saved it as a tab delimited text file, copied and pasted that file into the post and put

table marks around it
P.S. And no, the source (me) doesn't have a v7 device
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Old 03-04-2009, 11:58 PM
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Originally Posted by bwall23 View Post

I sat in front of the TV with a pencil and paper, sketched it as I used the arrow keys, keyed it into excel and saved it as a tab delimited text file, copied and pasted that file into the post and put
table marks around it P.S. And no, the source (me) doesn't have a v7 device

HA! Well, thanks for what you did...I'll use that as a starting point to look at the Sony pages and, if I half-way understand what that stuff is, maybe I'll make a comparable list for version 7 (which is apparently NOT 2-dimensional. but simple linear)...Tony

OTA only. For signal strength at your location: FCC DTV reception map
TVGOS data: Sony 250 from 5.1?, LG3410a from my DTVPal setup here, not any more.

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Old 03-05-2009, 08:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avnstf View Post

HA! Well, thanks for what you did...I'll use that as a starting point to look at the Sony pages and, if I half-way understand what that stuff is, maybe I'll make a comparable list for version 7 (which is apparently NOT 2-dimensional. but simple linear)...Tony

hi avnstf.. my panny E95 has v7 TVGOS.. as i recall there are about 30 screens and it's linear ( left to right )... i'll try to be patient enough to generate a spreadsheet of all the fields, though i don't know what most of them actually mean... interestingly enough, the screens DO contain ' slicing screens ' although as i understand it, v7 cannot do atsc slicing... the E95 is analog only and NTSC all the way, circa 2004, and appears to receive updated patch level once it locks onto a host.... rg
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Old 03-08-2009, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by rkg22 View Post

hi avnstf.. my panny E95 has v7 TVGOS.. as i recall there are about 30 screens and it's linear ( left to right )... i'll try to be patient enough to generate a spreadsheet of all the fields, though i don't know what most of them actually mean... interestingly enough, the screens DO contain ' slicing screens ' although as i understand it, v7 cannot do atsc slicing... the E95 is analog only and NTSC all the way, circa 2004, and appears to receive updated patch level once it locks onto a host.... rg

rkg22,
Did you ever get your listings back?.... I'm in Henderson currently receiving the guide data via PBS ch 10 OTA. A few months back when PBS dropped out for a few weeks, I got my data from CBS ch 8.1 (digital) OTA. I do have a Cox cable card in my Sony DVR (dual inputs); but I have been getting the TVGOS data OTA on the antenna feed on a $15 rabbit ear antenna from Radio Shack.

Edit 3/9/09: --- Well Sh*t. After several weeks of good TVGOS service from PBS, it dropped last night with no new listing for day 8. I will see what happens tonight.

Edit 3/10/09: Still no updates, but several other people nationally haven't received any updates the last 48 hour also; as reported over at the Sony DVR thread.

Regards
MK
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Old 03-09-2009, 10:11 PM
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Originally Posted by bwall23 View Post

OK, but you're going to hate hearing this because it's so simple...

You've done a great job with this entire topic, everyone is in your debt.

'Better Living Through Modern, Expensive, Electronic Devices'

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Old 03-09-2009, 11:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Ken H View Post

You've done a great job with this entire topic, everyone is in your debt.

Thanks Ken. That's a genuine compliment. I'm just glad I could give something back to the forum after getting so much from it.
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Old 03-12-2009, 02:04 PM
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Let me understand the ridiculus, redundent procedure that is necesary to force TVGOS to display listings from a digital channel. Of course, this is assuming you do have a digital channel that is supplying TVGOS data and also assuming it is sending data correctly.

1. After the device (TV, DVR, etc.) has been reset, you set it on the host channel for a period of time (overnight for example), so it will aquire the first firmware upgrade to be loaded,
2. It then aquires the 2nd firmware upgrade over the next time period (how ever long it will be). Durning this time the device is left on, unlike when the device is just updating just the program listing data.
3. The 3rd stage is the actual program data download time which is over a period of a few days (in addition of the previous time). This is done when the device is off.

Leaving the device 'on' stops the TVGOS feature from 'searching' all the channels looking for a 'Host'.
The device has to be reset first before this procedure is done to clear out the previous firmware upgrades.

Ok, is the above correct?

If so, here is the question; Why does the firmware have to be re-aquired every time? If the listings are just incorrect, why does the device have to reload the firmware? I would understand if the system crashed and wouldn't boot, just as one would reload the O/S for a 'toasted' computer. But, if some settings are just wrong, you don't reload the whole O/S, you just change those settings.

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Old 03-12-2009, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by videobruce View Post

Let me understand the ridiculus, redundent procedure that is necesary for TVGOS to display listings from a digital channel. Of course, this is assuming you do have a digital channel that is supplying TVGOS data and also assuming it is sending data correctly....

What (or whose) procedure are you referring to? Is this the one for the Sony DHG?

Generally, If your TVGOS is RESET for some reason, the TVGOS firmware reverts to the original factory version, in which case the unit has to download the current firmware version...is that what you are talking about? (e.g., that's what happens if the Sony DHG is reset...)

OTA only. For signal strength at your location: FCC DTV reception map
TVGOS data: Sony 250 from 5.1?, LG3410a from my DTVPal setup here, not any more.

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Old 03-12-2009, 02:30 PM
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Yes to both, but the process seems to be the same for any TVGOS device. It is for my Mits DLP.

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Old 03-12-2009, 03:55 PM
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That's not how my TVGOS devices work. On my new Sony TV with digital TVGOS you need to leave the TV off for a period of time to allow the TV do download guide info. AFAIK no firmware is ever downloaded, only guide info.
Same for my analog Panasonic EH-55 DVDR. Only guide info downloaded and they want to you to leave the device off for 24 hours to initially download guide info as well as find the station broadcasting the TVGOS.
Tivo on the other hand seems to get firmware from it's daily guide downloads either from phone line or internet connection.

edit:both my devices are version 9
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Old 03-12-2009, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by videobruce View Post

Yes to both, but the process seems to be the same for any TVGOS device. It is for my Mits DLP.

So I assume it's a unit with version 8 TVGOS, like the Sony...

Yes, I too have been watching with some dismay at the convoluted process people seem to be trying 1) to get that unit to acquire a digital CBS station as the host channel and/or 2) to try, in a unit where the TVGOS has been reset, to get to having a digital host channel WITHOUT first having it find an analog channel to, for example, set the clock.

I have a Sony, but I've been just sitting out things, since it still WANTS to get its data from analog, in this case PBS (except that for the last 3 days our PBS station - AND our digital CBS station, as it turns out - has NOT been broadcasting TVGOS).

I have gone so far as to test whether I can download data from CBS digital by using the G*-test/leave-unit-on-overnight method, and THAT works. However, I've been hoping that the TVGOS people would solve our problem (as Magic 8 ball had said they would, though bwall23 cites documentation that disputes that). OR - at worst - I've hoped that, when analog TVGOS really does go away (other than these occasional lapses caused presumably by Gemstar playing around), I could use the DTVPal to boot my unit up to a functional firware version, from which my Sony would then go and find the digital statiomn...

(Of course, I'm still waiting to see whether the Pal will work for my LG3410a a high-def digital unit that has version 7 and can NOT get data from a digital station..)

OR, in the case of the Sony, if the base firmware version is a fatal flaw, since the unit still has another year on warranty, maybe - if its TVGOS functionality goes down the tubes - it could be sent in to be upgraded the "hard" way (sorry for the pun)...

OTA only. For signal strength at your location: FCC DTV reception map
TVGOS data: Sony 250 from 5.1?, LG3410a from my DTVPal setup here, not any more.

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Old 03-12-2009, 11:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avnstf View Post

What (or whose) procedure are you referring to? Is this the one for the Sony DHG?

Generally, If your TVGOS is RESET for some reason, the TVGOS firmware reverts to the original factory version, in which case the unit has to download the current firmware version...is that what you are talking about? (e.g., that's what happens if the Sony DHG is reset...)

Thanks for answering that one and you're right... The base firmware (what you're calling the original factory version) is what's built into your device and that never gets lost. The patch versions that are downloaded (along with setup, listings, etc.) are what gets lost when you experience a system reset or a couple cold resets.
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Old 03-13-2009, 12:03 AM
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Originally Posted by bwall23 View Post

Feb 22, 2009 - Add LG LST-3410a per Rammitinski, Panasonic DMR-EH75V per tk54911, update Panasonic DMR-EH75V and add Panasonic DMR-EH55 per jjeff, add Toshiba 50HPX95 per gmucklow, update LG LST-3410 TVGOS_Version and Digital_compatible per avnstf, clarify TVGOS_Version and why DTVPal and TR40 are listed per avnstf, correct minimum ATSC Slicing (digital) TVGOS version from 08.01.53 to 08.01.65, add SONY KDL- models per jjeff
Feb 23, 2009 - Add Understanding TVGOS firmware revisions, Update Panasonic DMR-EH55 and DMR-EH75V Digital_compatible per jtbell, add Toshiba 50HP95 per xhibit#4, add Sharp LC37D5U and Sony HX900 per catmother
Feb 24, 2009 - Add forum thread links for panny's and toshiba
Feb 25, 2009 - Add panny DMR-E85H per bootymonger, update diags for V2-V7 to state for some RCA devices precede code w/2 per cheneyp, add links for DTVPal
Feb 28, 2009 - Add link to Trip's Digital TVGOS Service List per avnstf, add screencap of TVGOS version info from v8 diags screen, add Mitsubishi LT-46244 and Panasonic DMR-E95 per rkg22

Please add the Panasonic DMR-EH50 to the list. TVGOS V7. Supposed to work with DTVPal -
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Old 03-13-2009, 01:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Please add the Panasonic DMR-EH50 to the list. TVGOS V7. Supposed to work with DTVPal -

Thanks, added. Do you know what thread here covers that model?
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Old 03-13-2009, 07:16 AM
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On my new Sony TV with digital TVGOS you need to leave the TV off for a period of time to allow the TV do download guide info.

Yes, that is the normal procedure for TVGOS if everything is working correctly (note the emphasis).
Quote:
AFAIK no firmware is ever downloaded

If the device is new enough, that possibly no new firmware would be needed. have you ever looked at the 1st diagonstic screen for the version number(s)??
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So I assume it's a unit with version 8 TVGOS, like the Sony...

Correct. That should be the majority of the devices out there (not including the most recent DTVPal).
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Please add the Panasonic DMR-EH50 to the list. TVGOS V7.

I was under the impression V7 will not work with a digital channel.

For those that do have a working digital host channel, doing the so called "G* Test", do you see a packet count when the test first runs? Or do you have to wait for it to finsih and then press '2' to re-run the VBI test?

My digital host channel which is suppose to be passing data comes up a 'Fail' everytimme I test it. Only with their analog channel I get a 'Pass' and the packet count shows.

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Old 03-13-2009, 12:43 PM
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V7 will work with the digital TVGOS only with something that's supposed to convert it, like the DTV Pal (notice I say supposed to).
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Old 03-17-2009, 12:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Just a hint here...
You need to turn your device off so it can harvest.
i.e. It needs to scan your channels to create it's channel map and cannot do that until it assumes control.
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Old 03-17-2009, 01:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Old 03-17-2009, 07:54 AM
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Actually the data doesn't come from PBS, it was just most of the stations that are/were passing it along were PBS affilates. The actual data is sent over the internet which surely isn't PBS, or CBS for that matter.

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Old 03-17-2009, 11:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by videobruce View Post

Actually the data doesn't come from PBS, it was just most of the stations that are/were passing it along were PBS affilates. The actual data is sent over the internet which surely isn't PBS, or CBS for that matter.

Now there's a business opportunity. Build a wireless enabled device that will convert the data for use by those of us with analog only input TVGOS devices..... I'm starting to have this sinking feeling that I will be starting down the road build and maintain a mythTV/SageTV DVR. That's more ongoing work than I really wanted to get involved in. Sigh!
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Old 03-17-2009, 12:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bwall23 View Post

Thanks, added. Do you know what thread here covers that model?

There isn't a specific thread for the EH50. I mostly read the EH55 one for info though they're not identical models.
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Old 03-17-2009, 01:55 PM
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Not at all. As far as the TVGOS, which is what this thread's about, the EH55 uses the V9 guide, while the EH50 uses V7. There's a big enough difference in the ways they are designed and integrated (V8 and V9 not so much).

There are many scattered threads on older, V7 models, such as the E85H. You should probably be reading those, too, at least, if you're not already.
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Old 03-17-2009, 11:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by videobruce View Post

Actually the data doesn't come from PBS, it was just most of the stations that are/were passing it along were PBS affilates. The actual data is sent over the internet which surely isn't PBS, or CBS for that matter.

My post was titled "Analog TVGOS via PBS..." and I was pointing to a post where the poster qouted a source at a PBS station in CT saying that Macrovision told them that analog TVGOS is no longer being transmitted, nationwide.

You are correct in that the data flows over the Internet Figure 1, page 12. But it's over a VPN, so no chance of anyone picking it up over the Internet or even figuring out how to decode that data sent over the VPN to the TVGOS inserters at the broadcasters who host and broadcast it.

P.S. My analog PBS station stopped transmitting TVGOS data on 3/12 and my host channel is blank although my listings are up to date
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Old 03-18-2009, 12:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bwall23 View Post

My post was titled "Analog TVGOS via PBS..." and I was pointing to a post where the poster qouted a source at a PBS station in CT saying that Macrovision told them that analog TVGOS is no longer being transmitted, nationwide.

The "nationwide" bit is incorrect, because I am still receiving OTA analog TVGOS from WUNF, the UNC-TV station in Asheville NC. (UNC-TV is North Carolina's statewide PBS network, operated by the University of North Carolina.) I have program listings through next Tuesday, the full eight days. (The Wednesday downloads haven't started yet, as I type this.)

This is on a Sony HD DVR which uses version 8, IIRC.
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Old 03-18-2009, 06:11 AM
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Build a wireless enabled device that will convert the data for use by those of us with analog only input TVGOS devices.

That is what DTVPal is suppose to do, but the feature can't be used untill Macrovision updates their system according to Frank70.

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Old 03-18-2009, 09:24 AM
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I just ran some tests using my Sony DVR since all the tests that have been run using my Mits DLP have failed. To my pleasent surprise, the test passed with somewhat flying colors. Though I still haven't tried to 'force' the digital channel from the same station. I still get good listings from their analog station, so I will wait until their analog goes dark next month.

Take a look at these screen shots. Why is there such a huge difference between a analog and digital host regarding packet counts? One would think the other way around.
First is analog, 2nd is the same station, but this is the digital feed. Note the ATSC pass on an analog channel

Also notice, the analog channel number is ID'ed correctly for the first time. It happened once on their digital chanel and a few times on their analog. Has this been a issue with any of you that access this screen on any regular basis?
LL
LL

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Old 03-18-2009, 12:43 PM
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I don't blame you for not wanting to "force" anything on such an expensive piece of equipment (I didn't get mine for anywhere near the low price of $250.00 from Tweeter, like some).
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Old 03-18-2009, 02:17 PM
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Ramm -

The fact is that this whole TVGOS thing is a source of anxiety for many (myself included). Not to mention that we were supposed to know how this was going to shake out by now. But BO, in his infinite wisdom, decided to make us wait until June.

Personally, I had believed that all would be ok after the transition. But now we have some people in certain areas that appear to be hopelessly lost in trying to aquire program listings. Couple that with the lack of any solid information from either Macrovision or Sony, and the anxiety level rises even further.

And there may actually be something that we can do to help ourselves. It is widely believed that the oldest V-8.x software is not digital compatible, but the newest V-8.x software is at least partially digital compatible. If we can learn how to flash the newer 8.x software to the Sony, then we will maintain at least some compatibility after June 12th, the time at which we possibly will no longer be able to recover from a spontaneous reset which causes the TVGOS software to revert to the version which is stored in the machine.

This is why I am closely monitoring the developments in the Sony thread.

Don't ever make the MISTAKE of buying a Samsung TV..
They consider THIS
normal on a two month old set..
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Old 03-18-2009, 09:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by videobruce View Post

I just ran some tests using my Sony DVR since all the tests that have been run using my Mits DLP have failed. To my pleasent surprise, the test passed with somewhat flying colors. Though I still haven't tried to 'force' the digital channel from the same station. I still get good listings from their analog station, so I will wait until their analog goes dark next month.

Take a look at these screen shots. Why is there such a huge difference between a analog and digital host regarding packet counts? One would think the other way around.
First is analog, 2nd is the same station, but this is the digital feed. Note the ATSC pass on an analog channel

Also notice, the analog channel number is ID'ed correctly for the first time. It happened once on their digital chanel and a few times on their analog. Has this been a issue with any of you that access this screen on any regular basis?

I had the same results on my Mits with the older firmware (TVGOS v08.01.44). It's like they started to add ATSC Slicing in that version (08.01.4x), but it's not quite right.

Strangest thing tonight. After losing my only analog TVGOS channel (PBS) 6 days ago, I did an OTA channel scan on my Mits tonight and decided to leave all the analog channels it found (I usually delete them in the Mits channel editor). I ran the G* Test on every analog channel and found our local ABC analog passed the VBI test. I then looked at the screen Reception-Slicing and see TypeB packets (Ads) incrementing intermittently. Appears that Macrovision is testing analog TVGOS on our local ABC analog (they could have been doing this for awhile, but I never enabled any OTA analog channel on my set). I was getting TVGOS from analog PBS on cable and digital CBS.
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Old 03-18-2009, 10:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Just wanted to clarify my earlier post for those that didn't get my subtle hint...

TVGOS needs to take control of it's CE device (that it's built into) in order to extract a channel map. It tells the device to scan through all the channels it knows about (that were scanned by the device or that get mapped by a cablecard) and monitors each channel for a period of time while it harvests info like station, channel#, etc.

This info is wiped out after certain resets, so if you're experimenting after resetting your device, be aware that you'll need to turn the device off for up to 24 hours so the TVGOS can control it and scan through those channels itself.

If you don't do this, it will never get it's channel map, since it doesn't know what channels you can receive on your device.
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