Motorola DCX3400 and Samsung HLT6189s Problem - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 103 Old 07-05-2009, 06:54 AM - Thread Starter
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I have an apparent compatability problem with my new Comcast Motorola DCX3400 and the 2007 Samsung HLT6189S. They are wired via HDMI 1.3 cables via a Sony DG820 receiver. The receiver is not the problem, since this problem happens when I bypass the receiver (i.e. running the HDMI direct to the TV from the box).

Here's the problem. I set the Motorola box to 16:9, 1080i, and 480p (overide). This setting stays until video or audio sources are changed on the TV or receiver (i.e. going to FM radio or Xbox from TV viewing, etc). Then, the box goes back to 720p automatically. In addition, "dvi" flashes on the Motorola box (where the time is). I think the TV and box communicate these settings to each other after source changes, but I don't know how or why. Comcast cannot help and they have no solutions thus far, other than swapping out the box. I've gone though all settings on the TV and still the same result. I have a message into Motorola to see if they have any solutions.

In a nutshell, the Samsung and Motorola "talk" to each other and my Motorola box has its settings changed from 1080i to 720p without me doing anything at all. Weird...

Does anyone here have any solutions?? Please help if you do!!!

Thanks.
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post #2 of 103 Old 07-05-2009, 08:09 AM
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Have you tried using a different HDMI input port on the TV?
With the DCX connected directly on set to 1080i does the Info button on the Samsung remote indicate that it is receiving 1080i?
If you then turn off both the TV and the DCX and turn them back on without changing the TV soure or the DCX channel does the Samsung remote Info button still indicate 1080i?
If you then switch to ABC, FOX or ESPN HD which are broadcast in 720 does the DCX continue to send 1080i?
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post #3 of 103 Old 07-05-2009, 02:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Have you tried using a different HDMI input port on the TV?

Yes, I've tried all three HDMI inputs.

With the DCX connected directly on set to 1080i does the Info button on the Samsung remote indicate that it is receiving 1080i?

Yes, the Samsung indicates 1080i when I press "info".

If you then turn off both the TV and the DCX and turn them back on without changing the TV soure or the DCX channel does the Samsung remote Info button still indicate 1080i?

Yes, when I do this, it stays on 1080i. Even if the cable box goes on or off first or second, it stays on 1080i.

If you then switch to ABC, FOX or ESPN HD which are broadcast in 720 does the DCX continue to send 1080i?
Yes, it stays on 1080i on all of them.
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post #4 of 103 Old 07-05-2009, 03:21 PM
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Are you sure this problem occurs when the receiver is bypassed? If the stb is direct connected to the tv and you cycle thru other inputs, the stb reverts to 720p?

In case you are unaware, your Sony STR-DG820 has an HDMI control feature. Page 80 of the owner's manual indicates how one would enable or disable the feature. I would recommend you make sure it is disabled.

In case you haven't seen it, here is a Motorola DCX3400 User's Manual . Here is a pertinent quote on page 34 "When connecting the DCX3400 to an HDMI (or DVI) TV, the TV provides the DCX3400 with its list of supported video formats." A list of native resolutions is automatically populated, which can then be carefully modified.

Have you tried the "Native" setting instead of 1080i?

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post #5 of 103 Old 07-05-2009, 03:40 PM
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Whe the STB reverts to 720p does the TV info button also say is is receiving 720p?
Are you watching a 720p channel when the STB reverts to 720p?
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post #6 of 103 Old 07-06-2009, 04:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes, I've tried the Native setting and also tried disabling 720p, but it always re-populates and goes back to 720p.
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post #7 of 103 Old 07-06-2009, 04:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes, when the STB reverts back to 720p, the TV indicates 720p as well. It does it on known 1080i programs and known 720p programs (HBO, Showtime, ESPN).

I do have HDMI control disabled on the receiver.

I also had bypassed the receiver, but it still reverted back to 720p upon cylling off and on (the STB), without the TV being on.

This seems to be a communication issue between the TV and STB.
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post #8 of 103 Old 07-06-2009, 04:52 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm going to try bypassing the receiver again and change sources and power up/down both the STB and TV to make sure of my last post.
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post #9 of 103 Old 07-07-2009, 06:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Response (Motorola Technical Support) - 07/07/2009 03:52 PM
Valued Motorola Customer,

Thank you for choosing Motorola. I apologize for the inconvenience you are having with your product.

I understand that you are having problems with your DCX3400 switching from 1080i to 720p. I will be happy to provide information on why the box switches.

The box will find what display modes your TV will support and adjust its own settings accordingly. The TV and the STB has to make a HDCP handshake anytime you change input modes or turn off your TV. The only way to get around the problem of HDCP forcing your STB or (Set-Top-Box) to display at 720p is to use component cable which will still support up to a 1080p signal. Component cable does not use HDCP like HDMI does to establish an audio/video connection between your STB and your TV.

Please visit our web site at http://broadband.motorola.com/consum...rt/default.asp to access your user guide and frequently asked questions about your product.

Sincerely,


John
Motorola Technical Support
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post #10 of 103 Old 07-08-2009, 08:06 AM
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Your TV will accept either 1080i or 720p over HDMI with HDCP support. It appears that your A/V box is not passing that EDDI information on to your DCX. It appears that is only telling the DCX that it will accept 720p.
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post #11 of 103 Old 07-08-2009, 08:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Walford: Is there anything I can do to force the passing of the EDDI information you noted in your reply? I would expect this to be automated given the technology involved. Do I have a "bad STB".

It seems Motorola confirmed the only solution is to NOT USE HDMI, which makes absolutely no sense to me. Why have HDMI TVs, receivers, Xbox etc if you can't use the HDMI cable? Why doesn't my Sony HDMI DVD player revert to 720p? That always stays on 1080i (upconverts). HDMI is supposed to simplify wiring, yet this is more complicated than ever.

I think Motorola and Comcast are full of you know what! They need to resolve this problem or simply discontinue using the DCX3400.
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post #12 of 103 Old 07-08-2009, 09:42 AM
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tnbtaylor,

Some bugs are to be expected when you have a new STB/DVR that uses a new processor (SoC). New processors require new drivers and it can take time to work out all the kinks. Someone else suggested that Broadcom/Motorola just issued a new firmware to improve HDMI compatibility that Comcast should deploy soon.
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post #13 of 103 Old 07-08-2009, 11:41 AM
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See if you can get it to work with your A/V receiver bypassed?
I don't have a receiver and I read about so many problems with different makes and models of receiver and with their setting options that I do not try to support problems when a receiver is in the middle.
What resolution does it send when you watch a SD program instead of an HD program over HDMI?
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post #14 of 103 Old 07-08-2009, 12:51 PM - Thread Starter
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I got it to work without the receiver.
It stayed on 1080i. Not sure why, since the last time I tried, it did switch to 720p. Weird. Still, this should not happen, since the receiver is full pass-though HDMI. I still think this is a Motorola issue that then need to resolve with Comcast.

The resolution is 480p on SD channels over HDMI.
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post #15 of 103 Old 07-08-2009, 01:39 PM
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It is not a Motorola issue and it is not a Comcast issue.
It is a receiver issue. As long as your TV is on and your receiver is on when you turn on you PC the receiver should pass the EDDI information it receives from the TV to your PC and it is not doing that. I am sure that it is capable of passing HDMI content as it has demonstrated that by passing 720p and 480p content.
Reread you receiver manual in detail you may find something to reslve the issue.
I don't have a DCX so can't help much there. Re read it's user's manual closly there should be a way to force it to output 1080i when using 16:9 aspect ratio content regardless what resolution the receiver is telling it that it will accept. I took a look at your receiver manual and I have to admit the HDMI set up section was confusing.
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post #16 of 103 Old 07-09-2009, 01:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Walford: Read this manual cover-to-cover. Spent one hour on the phone with Sony tech support. No help and no solutions. They seem just a shocked as me. They blame Motorola and tell me it is their issue to fix. They sent it to their second level of support, which also could not help me with this problem. All their help is basic (like, it is plugged in).

Its funny my Sony DVD player (also HDMI) never changes resoltion. Then again, there are no internal settings that I know of.
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post #17 of 103 Old 07-09-2009, 03:20 PM
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I noticed when I looked at your Sony users' manual that it appeared to provide HD support for the Bravia Model TVs.
Have you considerd using HDMI direct from your Motorola box to your TV for video and routing just the digitala audio to the Sony?
As I stated before I try not to get involved with receivers. You might want to start a new thread with a subjeft like "Sony DG820 HDMI pass through problem with DCX 3400".

And state that you have a EDID problem since you have no problem when the receiver is not being used.

http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/E/EDID.html
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post #18 of 103 Old 07-10-2009, 08:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Another updated response from Motorola:

Response (Motorola Technical Support) 07/09/2009 02:01 PM Valued Motorola Customer,

I apologize for the confusion.

The HDCP handshake between the DCX unit and the TV is causing the DCX unit to revert to the 720p setting. This is done through auto-negotiation through the HDMI cable. When using the Component cable connection, there is no two way traffic. This prevents the unit from automatically changing the settings. From my information Component connections are capable of 1080p connections, however, it is not supported by this unit. If you use the component connections and set the Y Pb Pr Output to 1080i in the menu, you will be able to view the HD programming from your provider without the unit downgrading the signal to 720p as it is doing now.



Sincerely,


Manuel
Motorola Broadband Technical Support
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post #19 of 103 Old 07-10-2009, 11:32 AM
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The response makes absolutly no sense since everything works fine when connected directly to the TV.
What diferences do see in the settings options display as shown on page 29 of your DCX manual when connected directly to the TV as compared to when connected to the receiver? The bottom section of the display contains the EDID resolution data received from the HDMI connection.
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post #20 of 103 Old 07-10-2009, 11:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Another update by Motorola :::

Valued Motorola Customer,

The issue is not the unit malfunctioning. The communication from the TV to the DCX3400 is causing the settings in the DCX to change to 720p. This is the HDCP handshake communication that is causing this. Motorola HD set top boxes have a HDMI or DVI connection with built-in HDCP (High-bandwidth digital content protection), an industry standard security feature. Unfortunately some TV manufactures do not integrate this industry standard into their television design or there is a compatibility issue. This means that the HDMI/DVI connection on those HDTVs will not work with our HD/DVR equipment. As an alternative connection for viewing HDTV, use the component connection or the IEEE1394 digital connection (please note the Interactive Program Guide and DVR Menu system is not supported by the IEEE1394 connection). You can use both component and IEEE1394 connections and toggle back and forth to see and use the menu system.



Sincerely,


Manuel
Motorola Broadband Technical Support
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post #21 of 103 Old 07-10-2009, 12:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Walford: What diferences do see in the settings options display as shown on page 29 of your DCX manual when connected directly to the TV as compared to when connected to the receiver? The bottom section of the display contains the EDID resolution data received from the HDMI connection.

It is the same whether connected direct to the TV or via the receiver. It always indicates 1080i, 720p, and 480p as supported formats either with or without the receiver connected.
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post #22 of 103 Old 07-10-2009, 02:39 PM
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Are your selections shown at the top of the display also the same for both?
When the output resolution is wrong through the receiver have you tried changing the source on the TV to another connection and then changing it back again.
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post #23 of 103 Old 07-11-2009, 08:31 AM
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A few thoughts:
1. The display on page should have 1080i, 720p, and 48p checked and should have 1080i and 480p selected at the top.
2. Do you have the problem with all channels includiing CBS-HD and NBC-HD? OTA HD channels definitly do not require HDCP to be supported by both the TV and the Receiver. If they do Comcast has their transmitter set up incorectly
3, When ths selection reverts to 720p is 1080i still checked on the bottom of the display on page 29?
4. Is the DCX HDMI connection the only output from the DCX that is connected?
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post #24 of 103 Old 07-12-2009, 07:07 AM - Thread Starter
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After troubleshooting this with Comcast, Sony, and Samsung, I have narrowed this issue down to just one problem. It took some time, but this is the only issue I am having with this STB.

Here is the issue: When I change the receiver to FM Tuner to listen to the radio and I turn the Samsung off and the Motorola STB off, the Motorola flashes DVI (or maybe DUI). It is at that moment when it flashes DVI, the STB reverts from 1080i to 720p automatically. This 720p setting (with 4:3 override changed to off) is the default setting with this STB. The audio settings that I selected (Pass Though) are also reset to Auto, which is the default audio setting. In essence, the STB is changed to default factory settings when I listen to the radio.
It is my opinion, that when switching the Sony to FM Tuner, the HDMI/HDCP handshake is terminated or interrupted and this reverts the STB back to 720p and tells the STB to go back to default settings. The default settings on this STB are 16:9, 720p, 4:3 override off.
I think Motorola should come out with a firmware upgrade that will force this STB to always stay on the user selected settings, versus going back to default settings. My older HDMI/DVI STB never changed its settings.
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post #25 of 103 Old 07-12-2009, 07:27 AM
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Makes sense and I agree that the DCX should not go to its default settings when it no longer can perform a HDMI handshake or even sense a connection to the receiver. Nor does it make sense for the receiver to not provide any indication of a connection to a source currently not in use. Your TV does not do this when you switch it's source from one interface for the TV to another for your DVD player.
Possibly the only soution at this time is connect the DCX HDMI directly to the TV for video and to use the digital audio output from your DCX to your receiver.
I asdmire your perservenace with the different support staffs. The fact that two units the receiver and the STB do not what is expected was very hard to determine until you could come up with the exact sequence of events which caused it.
Page 6 of your users manual descibes the use of the Format on the front of the DCX to change resolution. I don't know if your remote also has a Format button If it does it might be worth a try.
You might try Motorola -mail support at the following link to see if they have releases an update which your cable provider has not yet downloaded to prevent the DCX 3400 from restoring its default settings.
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post #26 of 103 Old 07-13-2009, 11:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Comcast called me. They completed upgrades on 7/8/09 and pushed them to my DCX3400. They reset my box on 7/13/09. Yet, I still get the same result as outlined here. The "upgrades" did nothing for this particular issue. Back to the drawing board.
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post #27 of 103 Old 07-13-2009, 11:41 AM
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I still suggest an e-mail to Motorola to see if they are planning any updates that will change the current behavior. I have a DCX 3200 and have never seen a reset if I disconnect my HDMI output cable, turn off my TV unplug my TV or change the source on my TV.
Comcast provides updates to both the hardware box itself and to the Software program they are using to control it. There only about 3 or 4 cable box software vendors that they could be using
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post #28 of 103 Old 07-14-2009, 11:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Walford,

I have sent the e-mail to Motorola to see if they are planning any updates. I will post their response here (once I get same).

Hopefully, their response is not "Don't Use the HDMI output" that they keep giving me. That is not an acceptable solution...

Will update soon.
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post #29 of 103 Old 07-14-2009, 12:40 PM
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No the comcast response was totally wrong it had absolutly nothing to do with the problem which has absoultly nothing to do with HDCP.
Have you checked to see if you have a Format button on your Motorola remote or do you only have a Format button on the front of the STB itself which you can use to change the resolution being output?
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post #30 of 103 Old 07-14-2009, 01:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Motorola Customer,

I apologize that our responses have not resolved your concerns. I understand that when connecting HDMI from your DCX3400-M to your A/V Receiver, and then to your TV, you are having problems with the DCX3400 changing settings.

The HDMI auto-negotiates the best connection between the devices. You stated that everything works fine when connected directly to the TV, so the TV is telling the DCX unit that 1080p is the best connection type. Since you are having a problem with the settings changing when you turn off the A/V Reciever, it appears that the receiver is telling the box that 720p is the best connection type. The units will auto-negotiate the setting any time that they are power cycled.

I have seen this issue a couple of times previously. Those customers were able to find a menu in the A/V Receiver that changed its default connection type to the 1080. Please check your menu settings, or contact your A/V receiver manufacturer to see if they are able to change the default HDMI setting from 720p to 1080p.

I will be happy to submit your suggestion regarding freezing the user settings rather than auto-negotiating for the best settings. I will pass this to the correct department. In the meantime, all of our HDMI compatible set top boxes do auto-negotiate to find the best settings.

Sincerely,

Dayna
Operations Manager
Motorola Technical Support
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