Personal ATSC Transmitter? - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 70 Old 08-20-2009, 09:46 AM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
aaronfitz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 7
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Hello,

I'm not quite sure if this is in the correct forum, so please feel free to relocate this if it isn't.

I would like to be able to broadcast audio/video output from my PC to the TVs in the house. I'd like to do it in 1080i, with 5.1 audio output. However, I currently live in an apartment where I cannot fish new wiring. This eliminates things like network media serving since my wireless network cannot support enough data throughput for multiple TVs.

Are there personal ATSC transmitters on the market, similar to the FM transmitters that are audio only? The range doesn't need to be far at all, possibly 25 feet or so.
aaronfitz is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 70 Old 08-20-2009, 10:09 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Ratman's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Collingswood, N.J.
Posts: 14,651
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 231 Post(s)
Liked: 315
A quick google search came up with this:
http://www.amazon.com/Brite-View-BV-.../dp/B0026FCGLI
http://www.electronichouse.com/artic...ransmitter/C93
Ratman is online now  
post #3 of 70 Old 08-20-2009, 10:14 AM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
aaronfitz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 7
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Your Google-fu is better than mine.

Can anyone find one which transmits ATSC specifically? I'd rather not have to shell out for receivers when the TVs already have the ATSC tuners built-in.
aaronfitz is offline  
post #4 of 70 Old 08-20-2009, 10:43 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
walford's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 16,789
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 12
ATSC is not an RF modulation tranmission standard.
OTA digital TV is broadcast using MPEG2 encoding in accordance with ATSC standards asnd is broadcast using 8VSB RF modulation. Most cable digitasl content is also encoded in accordance with the the ATSC standards.
I am not aware of any home use transmiters for 8VSB modulated digital video that would enable any TV in a home to receive the content with an OTA 8vsb digital tuner (which is often mistankenly called an ATSC tuner).
Is it if your intention to send different HD programs to different TV all of which have digital tuners from your PC or to send a single program to the other TVs concurently?
walford is offline  
post #5 of 70 Old 08-20-2009, 10:54 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Ratman's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Collingswood, N.J.
Posts: 14,651
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 231 Post(s)
Liked: 315
You won't be able to transmit 8VSB privately. The FCC would frown upon that I'm sure.

Shell out for an electrician and run cables/wiring from your antenna to the TV's to suit your needs.
Ratman is online now  
post #6 of 70 Old 08-20-2009, 11:25 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Tower Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Altamont, NY
Posts: 1,578
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratman View Post

You won't be able to transmit 8VSB privately. The FCC would frown upon that I'm sure.

It seems that the product is both legal and illegal.

"The Air HD (BV-2500) will automatically adjust its frequency between 4.9~5.9 GHz."

There are unlicensed frequency bands at 5.3 and 5.8 Ghz. 4.9 GHZ is reserved for public service, but unlicensed. Weather radar uses 5.5 GHz.
Tower Guy is offline  
post #7 of 70 Old 08-20-2009, 12:21 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Trip in VA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Alexandria, VA, US | Age: 26
Posts: 14,460
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 102 Post(s)
Liked: 66
Send a message via AIM to Trip in VA Send a message via Yahoo to Trip in VA
There is a product that will modulate an ATSC signal which is currently being used for tests of amateur DTV, but using one of these on the TV band is illegal. Plus, it's a lot more expensive than those products to which you've already been linked.

- Trip

N4MJC

Comments are my own and not that of the FCC (my employer) or anyone else.

RabbitEars

"Ignorance and prejudice and fear walk hand in hand..." - Rush "Witch Hunt"

Trip in VA is offline  
post #8 of 70 Old 08-20-2009, 12:23 PM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
aaronfitz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 7
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by walford View Post

Is it if your intention to send different HD programs to different TV all of which have digital tuners from your PC or to send a single program to the other TVs concurently?

A single program to all of the TVs concurrently
aaronfitz is offline  
post #9 of 70 Old 08-20-2009, 12:25 PM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
aaronfitz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 7
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratman View Post

You won't be able to transmit 8VSB privately. The FCC would frown upon that I'm sure.

I was under the impression that low-power broadcasting on them would be OK? That seems to be the case with FM, at least, since you can get personal FM transmitters that use licensed frequencies for personal audio devices.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratman View Post

Shell out for an electrician and run cables/wiring from your antenna to the TV's to suit your needs.

If it were allowed I would run the cabling myself, but, it's not.
aaronfitz is offline  
post #10 of 70 Old 08-20-2009, 12:49 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Trip in VA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Alexandria, VA, US | Age: 26
Posts: 14,460
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 102 Post(s)
Liked: 66
Send a message via AIM to Trip in VA Send a message via Yahoo to Trip in VA
There's a rule allowing extremely low-powered FM transmitters. No such rule exists for TV.

- Trip

N4MJC

Comments are my own and not that of the FCC (my employer) or anyone else.

RabbitEars

"Ignorance and prejudice and fear walk hand in hand..." - Rush "Witch Hunt"

Trip in VA is offline  
post #11 of 70 Old 08-20-2009, 12:55 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
walford's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 16,789
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 12
You might look into HDMI over Powerline equipment:

http://www.efunctional.com/dbhdp100.html

I don't know if you can do component over powerline since that wold probably be better if the same program is going to all the TVs.
walford is offline  
post #12 of 70 Old 08-20-2009, 01:14 PM
AVS Special Member
 
AntAltMike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: College Park, MD
Posts: 3,598
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 32 Post(s)
Liked: 29
The second linked product in post #2, "Flywire", from Belkin, was never produced, and Belkin announced earlier this year that it will not be produced.
AntAltMike is offline  
post #13 of 70 Old 08-20-2009, 01:19 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Ratman's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Collingswood, N.J.
Posts: 14,651
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 231 Post(s)
Liked: 315
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tower Guy View Post

It seems that the product is both legal and illegal.

"The Air HD (BV-2500) will automatically adjust its frequency between 4.9~5.9 GHz."

There are unlicensed frequency bands at 5.3 and 5.8 Ghz. 4.9 GHZ is reserved for public service, but unlicensed. Weather radar uses 5.5 GHz.

With a broadcast distance of 20 meters... I don't think it will disrupt your neighbor's weather radar too badly.

This device is no different than some portable phones.

That's a lot different than remodulating and rebroadcasting a signal within the 50-800MHz range.
Ratman is online now  
post #14 of 70 Old 08-20-2009, 03:43 PM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
aaronfitz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 7
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post

There's a rule allowing extremely low-powered FM transmitters. No such rule exists for TV.

- Trip

Ah, I wasn't aware that the FM exception was specific. I had assumed it was a blanket low-power exemption.

Thanks guys. Sounds like I'll just have to wait to do this until I move into my house in a couple months and I can run wires to wherever I want!
aaronfitz is offline  
post #15 of 70 Old 08-20-2009, 06:41 PM
Advanced Member
 
rabbit73's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: S.E. VA
Posts: 915
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Liked: 16
If you are willing to sacrifice some signal quality for your temporary situation you might consider something like a Leapfrog:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...=#post16855001

If you can not measure it, you can not improve it.
Lord Kelvin, 1883
www.megalithia.com/elect/aerialsite/dttpoorman.html
rabbit73 is offline  
post #16 of 70 Old 08-21-2009, 03:57 PM
Member
 
nsayer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Santa Clara, CA
Posts: 28
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Since the original poster asked specifically about ATSC... SR Systems in Germany sells an MPEG encoder / 8VSB modulator combination capable of generating about 10 milliwatts of power for about 1000 euros. It's intended for use by Amateur Radio operators - who mostly use DVB-S instead of ATSC anyway. I bought a pair of these and am working on an Amateur ATSC repeater here in the bay area.

But the idea of using these to move TV around your house is pretty much a non-starter. Your best bet is (vaporware, so far as I know) wireless HDMI gear.
nsayer is offline  
post #17 of 70 Old 08-21-2009, 04:05 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Scooper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Youngsville, NC USA
Posts: 5,064
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 16
What about using those 8vsb modulators going through RG6 coax ?

You CAN put antennas on your owned and/or controlled property...
http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html

Being A Beacon of Knowledge in the darkness of FUD
Scooper is offline  
post #18 of 70 Old 08-21-2009, 04:54 PM
Member
 
nsayer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Santa Clara, CA
Posts: 28
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Yeah, I think the point is more about the $1500 cost of the equipment...
nsayer is offline  
post #19 of 70 Old 08-21-2009, 05:25 PM
AVS Special Member
 
coyoteaz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: DFW
Posts: 4,182
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
What about a ZvBox? It uses QAM, not ATSC, but seems to do what you want otherwise. You'd need the Pro model for 1080i.
coyoteaz is offline  
post #20 of 70 Old 08-22-2009, 08:10 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
foxeng's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Where ever I am is where I am.
Posts: 14,032
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 42 Post(s)
Liked: 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by nsayer View Post

Since the original poster asked specifically about ATSC... SR Systems in Germany sells an MPEG encoder / 8VSB modulator combination capable of generating about 10 milliwatts of power for about 1000 euros. It's intended for use by Amateur Radio operators - who mostly use DVB-S instead of ATSC anyway. I bought a pair of these and am working on an Amateur ATSC repeater here in the bay area.

But the idea of using these to move TV around your house is pretty much a non-starter. Your best bet is (vaporware, so far as I know) wireless HDMI gear.

But does the SR Systems do MPEG2 audio or AC3? I thought the big debate in CA ATV circles was the fact that this type gear didn't do AC3 and therefore CECBs were useless since unlike the more expensive STBs, the CECB's didn't have MPEG2 decoders in them and the ATSC ATV activity would start at 1296 using the L-Band segment of DVB-S receivers and not use 432?

All opinions expressed (unless otherwise noted) are the posters and NOT the posters employers. The poster in NO WAY is/will speak for his employers.
foxeng is online now  
post #21 of 70 Old 08-23-2009, 04:32 AM
AVS Special Member
 
dr1394's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Mizar 5
Posts: 3,174
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by foxeng View Post

But does the SR Systems do MPEG2 audio or AC3? I thought the big debate in CA ATV circles was the fact that this type gear didn't do AC3 and therefore CECBs were useless since unlike the more expensive STBs, the CECB's didn't have MPEG2 decoders in them and the ATSC ATV activity would start at 1296 using the L-Band segment of DVB-S receivers and not use 432?

I'm sure the SR Systems encoder is MPEG-1 Layer 2. I'll also guess that it's fully capable of AC-3 (it's not that much more MIPS for AC-3 2.0), but they just don't want to deal with the Dolby licensing.

Aside from the encoder fee, I believe you need to verify that each customer has paid their fee to Dolby to produce/transmit content. Not a good model for the amateur radio market.

Ron

HD MPEG-2 Test Patterns http://www.w6rz.net
dr1394 is offline  
post #22 of 70 Old 08-23-2009, 08:06 AM
AVS Special Member
 
AntAltMike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: College Park, MD
Posts: 3,598
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 32 Post(s)
Liked: 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr1394 View Post

I'm sure the SR Systems encoder is MPEG-1 Layer 2. I'll also guess that it's fully capable of AC-3 (it's not that much more MIPS for AC-3 2.0), but they just don't want to deal with the Dolby licensing.

Aside from the encoder fee, I believe you need to verify that each customer has paid their fee to Dolby to produce/transmit content. Not a good model for the amateur radio market.

A few months ago, Toner Cable was taking orders for a commercial MPEG-2encoder/QAM modulator product intended for headend use for $2,500, and one of my competitors said he was testing the prototype, but when I called in to place an order, I was told that they had to drop that product because of a problem negotiating the Dolby rights fee.
AntAltMike is offline  
post #23 of 70 Old 08-25-2009, 07:46 AM
AVS Special Member
 
sneals2000's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 7,057
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 59 Post(s)
Liked: 49
If the OP has an existing RF coax connection directly to each TV then he would just need a modulator and NOT a transmitter? That would presumably be legal - though they aren't cheap.

If the TVs are QAM compatible then the zvboxes might be of interest? Think they are more geared to PC connection - but may also allow HD video sources? The ZVBox 150 appears to have HD Component inputs - though 720p only - not 1080i?

http://www.zeevee.com/connected-home

(Sorry - just seen coyoteaz posted a similar thought)
sneals2000 is offline  
post #24 of 70 Old 08-25-2009, 08:12 AM
AVS Special Member
 
gjvrieze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 1,863
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by sneals2000 View Post

If the OP has an existing RF coax connection directly to each TV then he would just need a modulator and NOT a transmitter? That would presumably be legal - though they aren't cheap.

If the TVs are QAM compatible then the zvboxes might be of interest? Think they are more geared to PC connection - but may also allow HD video sources? The ZVBox 150 appears to have HD Component inputs - though 720p only - not 1080i?

http://www.zeevee.com/connected-home

(Sorry - just seen coyoteaz posted a similar thought)

Along with this line of thinking is the Bocs Extender (SD at the present, but HD is in future)

Also they have a thread on AVS with a rep from the company to answer questions... David Feller is the go to guy for this product.

KD0MOF

All opinions expressed (unless otherwise noted) are the poster's only and NOT that of the poster's employers.
gjvrieze is offline  
post #25 of 70 Old 08-26-2009, 05:57 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
videobruce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Buffalo NY
Posts: 15,357
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 281 Post(s)
Liked: 161
Quote:
The Air HD operates on the NON-DFS (Dynamic Frequency Selection) frequencies,

Hugh?
Quote:
In other words, the Air HD (BV-2500) will automatically adjust its frequency between 4.9~5.9 GHz for the best video transmission performance possible

That ought to go far. Surely can't use a consumer ATSC receiver with that.

.
.
Abundant OTA television is what makes this country different from all others. Lets keep it this way. If you like Wi-Fi so much, OTA fits right in. After all, it is wireless.
videobruce is online now  
post #26 of 70 Old 08-28-2009, 11:59 AM
AVS Special Member
 
jimp2244's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Cincinnati
Posts: 1,587
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post

There's a rule allowing extremely low-powered FM transmitters. No such rule exists for TV.

- Trip

I'd like to ask for clarification on this... I may not be using all the correct terms, but I have a VCR that modulates analog/NTSC on channel 3 (or 4), right? Of course that's legal, right? I see that he does want to do it wirelessly, but lets say he already had coax run. Is there a device that could do that such as I outlined above?

If there is, obviously it would be illegal (don't do it!), but technically possible to use an amp with directional antennas to send that through the air a short distance.

Drop pay-TV. Put up an antenna. Enjoy free HDTV. Save $60-100 or more per month!
jimp2244 is offline  
post #27 of 70 Old 08-28-2009, 01:30 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Ratman's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Collingswood, N.J.
Posts: 14,651
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 231 Post(s)
Liked: 315
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimp2244 View Post

... but I have a VCR that modulates analog/NTSC on channel 3 (or 4), right? Of course that's legal, right? Is there a device that could do that such as I outlined above?

Not for "ATSC" (8VSB) that I am aware. Remodulating over coax cable is not the same as re-broadcasting OTA (wirelessly) on licenced frequencies.

EDIT:
Let me clarify... It would be legal, but I am not aware of any "box" that re-modulates ATSC similar to a VCR.
Ratman is online now  
post #28 of 70 Old 08-28-2009, 01:50 PM
Advanced Member
 
k_ross's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 501
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronfitz View Post

This eliminates things like network media serving since my wireless network cannot support enough data throughput for multiple TVs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronfitz View Post

A single program to all of the TVs concurrently

Multicast over Wi-Fi would allow you to send the same video stream to all of the clients on the network, using only the bandwidth of a single video stream.

You'll need 802.11n to get the speed needed for HD, though. 802.11a/b/g won't be fast enough.

-- Kevin
k_ross is offline  
post #29 of 70 Old 08-28-2009, 03:27 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Trip in VA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Alexandria, VA, US | Age: 26
Posts: 14,460
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 102 Post(s)
Liked: 66
Send a message via AIM to Trip in VA Send a message via Yahoo to Trip in VA
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimp2244 View Post

I'd like to ask for clarification on this... I may not be using all the correct terms, but I have a VCR that modulates analog/NTSC on channel 3 (or 4), right? Of course that's legal, right?

Yep, as long as it's kept within the coax.

Quote:


I see that he does want to do it wirelessly, but lets say he already had coax run. Is there a device that could do that such as I outlined above?

That one really expensive SR Systems device is the only thing I've seen that does something like that.

- Trip

N4MJC

Comments are my own and not that of the FCC (my employer) or anyone else.

RabbitEars

"Ignorance and prejudice and fear walk hand in hand..." - Rush "Witch Hunt"

Trip in VA is offline  
post #30 of 70 Old 01-10-2010, 08:06 AM
Newbie
 
satguy84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 8
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 14
I am waiting for something like the WV300 (can't post link, do a Google search)
I believe it's only a matter of time before one comes out, legal in the US or not
satguy84 is offline  
Reply HDTV Technical

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off