HD picture quality for NFL games - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 19 Old 12-31-2009, 10:44 AM - Thread Starter
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I recently purchased a Samsung UN55 8500 LED HDTV which is a major improvement in picture quality for NFL games since it runs at 240 Hz vs. my prior Sharp TV. In comparing game broadcasts between Fox, CBS, NBC, NFL Network and ESPN, I still see what I believe is referred to as macroblocking on NBC during any motion. Picture quality on NBC Sunday night games appears inferior to all the other networks who broadcast games.

Is this true for others as well? If so, why would NBC not have as good a picture as the other networks?

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post #2 of 19 Old 12-31-2009, 12:23 PM
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KNTV, like all other NBC O&Os, carries 2 SD subchannels in addition to the primary HD program. This limits the HD broadcast to about 13.5Mb/s. KPIX, being a CBS O&O, has no SD subchannels and sends out video at 17+Mb/s. As a general rule, lower bitrates result in lower quality.

Those who are in markets where the CBS affiliate crams a bunch of SD subchannels into the stream (Milwaukee comes to mind, with 3 SD subchannels) may see the opposite.
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post #3 of 19 Old 12-31-2009, 01:59 PM
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NBC used to have a quite inferior network distribution for both video and audio. Since they moved to their new system the network feed is much improved. As stated, it's some of the affiliates, especially the O&Os, that are an issue. However it's possible now for a NBC affiliate to look very good on network programming.

ABC uses a similar system for their network distribution but is limited by their O&O affiliates with a second HD subchannel (LiveWell) and an SD. Bitrates are better than when they first added Livewell but not as good as they once were. KGO is an O&O.
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post #4 of 19 Old 12-31-2009, 02:22 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PMA View Post

If so, why would NBC not have as good a picture as the other networks?

I find that NBC has one of the best quality pictures of all the networks.
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post #5 of 19 Old 12-31-2009, 03:33 PM
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I agree. This season NBC has a very good NFL game picture. I watch over WDSU in New Orleans OTA, which has one subchannel.
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post #6 of 19 Old 12-31-2009, 05:27 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coyoteaz View Post

KNTV, like all other NBC O&Os, carries 2 SD subchannels in addition to the primary HD program. This limits the HD broadcast to about 13.5Mb/s. KPIX, being a CBS O&O, has no SD subchannels and sends out video at 17+Mb/s. As a general rule, lower bitrates result in lower quality.

Those who are in markets where the CBS affiliate crams a bunch of SD subchannels into the stream (Milwaukee comes to mind, with 3 SD subchannels) may see the opposite.

Yeah I can verify that. WTVF( CBS ) used to not have any subchannels and looked great. Now it has 2 and you can tell the difference.
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post #7 of 19 Old 01-01-2010, 06:54 AM
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In my area the OTA NBC football does look very good, I don't see much distortion during fast motion scenes.
However I am using a plasma display.
Also the quality of NFL channel is also very good.
Fox and ESPN (ABC) seem to vary but overall good.
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post #8 of 19 Old 01-03-2010, 06:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the explanations. Looks like this is unique to the SF Bay Area and KNTV.
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post #9 of 19 Old 01-03-2010, 06:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PMA View Post

Thanks for the explanations. Looks like this is unique to the SF Bay Area and KNTV.

Did you check the local topic for your area?

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post #10 of 19 Old 01-07-2010, 10:26 AM
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Watching the bcs, i could notice that fox's quality on the sugar bowl was worse than abc's during the rose bowl.
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post #11 of 19 Old 01-08-2010, 12:37 PM
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The rankings are based on the direct QAM feed.

#1: FOX. Very sharp. Little to no artifacts.
close #2: NBC. Very sharp as well. A tiny bit of noticeable artifacts.
#3: ABC. Not sharp at all. Looks low-res. Artifacts during motion and around static graphics.
#4: CBS. Terrible. Blocking artifacts fill the screen on fast motion. Just gross.
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post #12 of 19 Old 01-07-2012, 04:31 PM
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Resurrection.

NBC football coverage has been poor all season. Today's playoff game (Houston) does not appear to be true HD. The picture is soft, there is a good deal of pixellization during fast movements and PQ varies between cameras.
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post #13 of 19 Old 01-07-2012, 04:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robertawillisjr View Post

Resurrection.

NBC football coverage has been poor all season. Today's playoff game (Houston) does not appear to be true HD. The picture is soft, there is a good deal of pixellization during fast movements and PQ varies between cameras.

It is in in High Def, your local provider (OTA,Cable,other) is providing you with a poor feed. The bit rate over satellite is 18Mbps MPEG-4

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post #14 of 19 Old 01-07-2012, 06:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ybsane View Post

It is in in High Def, your local provider (OTA,Cable,other) is providing you with a poor feed. The bit rate over satellite is 18Mbps MPEG-4

22.5, but your point is valid. The game looked great on my affiliate.

As always, the closer a source is to you, the more control they have over content.

Here, NBC beats CBS every time. Both of my local affiliates have 1 subchannel, but WMTV (NBC) has their's well managed, while WISC's (CBS) is less than well managed.

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post #15 of 19 Old 01-07-2012, 06:52 PM
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Should be looking better on NBC O&Os now that Universal Sports is gone. KXAS has completely removed .3 and given that bitrate back to the HD channel. I would imagine the others have done the same since NBC apparently has no plans for putting something else up. Probably still won't be as good as CBS O&Os running without subchannels, but better than it was a week ago.
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post #16 of 19 Old 01-07-2012, 06:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coyoteaz View Post

CBS O&Os running without subchannels

CBS O&O's will be adding subchannels shortly.

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post #17 of 19 Old 01-08-2012, 05:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robertawillisjr View Post

Resurrection.

NBC football coverage has been poor all season. Today's playoff game (Houston) does not appear to be true HD. The picture is soft, there is a good deal of pixellization during fast movements and PQ varies between cameras.

I agree with NBC's picture not being very good. Rather than being from the local feed my impression was it was the network. There were some local HD commercials that were sharp.
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post #18 of 19 Old 01-08-2012, 05:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adb View Post

There were some local HD commercials that were sharp.

Big difference in motion. NBC's network feed is top notch. Your local affiliate has the most control over the picture quality you see.

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post #19 of 19 Old 01-08-2012, 02:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cgmv123 View Post

CBS O&O's will be adding subchannels shortly.

NYC will be very soon, LA to follow, but the other O&O markets may take more time, and at least one without local news (Detroit) may not get a subchannel at all.

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