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post #2881 of 2892 Old 07-01-2016, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by holl_ands View Post
My Samsung UDTV (and many other UDTV's) already have the HARDWARE to process H.265 (HVEC) using a High-Speed Decoder Chip....but MAY or MIGHT NOT have the PROCESSOR CHIP to Decode OFDM signals [would require a Signal Processor with DOWNLOADABLE S/W...and enough MEMORY to load BOTH 8VSB and OFDM at the SAME time...easy peasy if they DESIGNED it upfront to be Upgradeable]. BTW, the RF Tuner is the SAME, using the standard 6 MHz Wide Bandwidth. What is NOT known is whether Samsung will bother to BACK-FIT their UDTV's or will ONLY do S/W Updates to support Ultra-HD Blu-Ray. They made a BIG DEAL about being UPGRADEABLE....including the ability to interconnect to a FUTURE-TECHNOLOGY EXTERNAL BOX, aka "One Connect Smart Evolution Kit"....if an external box is even NEEDED for ATSC 3.0:
http://www.samsung.com/us/video/tvs-...s/SEK-2500U/ZA

Even in my very crowded SOCAL Area, a FEW Channels could be CLEARED for duplicate ATSC 3.0 operations if some of the financially struggling, lower-power [e.g. Religious + Foreign Language] channels were made an offer they couldn't refuse to DEFER changing over to Cell-Phone Operations, absorbing the low-rez programming onto existing ATSC 1.0 Channels....which is going to happen ANYWAY.....
This forum amazes me with the knowledge of its posters, including the above post. Thanks!
This whole process involving auctions, ATSC3, possible upgrades etc. is fascinating.
One low-power "religious channel" in our area has one HDTV feed and a few sub-channels, the other has six 480i feeds. This is about to get even more interesting.
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post #2882 of 2892 Old 07-01-2016, 12:35 PM
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My Samsung UDTV (and many other UDTV's) .... MAY or MIGHT NOT have the PROCESSOR CHIP to Decode OFDM signals
would love to know if SDR on these TVs ever gets substantiated as more than "dreaming", even if they don't bother to release or implement it. Dr1394 or others here may know. If you ever find out, please do tell.
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post #2883 of 2892 Old Yesterday, 02:28 PM
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I've been watching the progress of the Reverse Auction here:

https://auctiondata.fcc.gov/public/projects/1000

but I don't understand what is going on. Bidding through Round 37 has now been scheduled. What's going on in all these rounds and why are there so many?
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post #2884 of 2892 Old Yesterday, 05:25 PM
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It's a "reverse" auction, so the price goes down in each round. A station remains in the auction by waiting until the reverse phase reaches the end (for the first reverse stage, it was 52 rounds) or they withdraw because they felt the price became too low.

The high number of rounds just gives a fine enough price decrement.

Ron

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post #2885 of 2892 Old Yesterday, 07:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Calaveras View Post
I've been watching the progress of the Reverse Auction here:

https://auctiondata.fcc.gov/public/projects/1000

but I don't understand what is going on. Bidding through Round 37 has now been scheduled. What's going on in all these rounds and why are there so many?
Title at the top "Public Reporting System".

The public is to know nothing until the very end (After the Election by design) so that the huge backlash will not hurt Congress when the citizens realize that their OTA TV will be going away. What will be their reaction when a couple of years later they must buy brand new DTVs.

Take a look at the amount that the stations wanted to go off the air ($88,379,558,704) and the amount that the wireless people were willing to pay ($22,450,000,000). That's a big gap

There is very little posted anywhere but there was the "Frozen" status of some stations. I take that to mean that in some markets the requested amounts were matched by the amount that was willing to be paid.

Now the station in Ft Bragg and other smaller markets are seeing the amount of money they might receive drop more and more. How that may play out we may never know by design.

SHF
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post #2886 of 2892 Old Yesterday, 08:05 PM
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As usual, there's no wacky conspiracy to trick the public. The bidding is kept secret so that the broadcasters can't collude with each other.

Ron

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post #2887 of 2892 Old Yesterday, 08:41 PM
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As usual, there's no wacky conspiracy to trick the public. The bidding is kept secret so that the broadcasters can't collude with each other.

Ron
Not a "Wacky Conspiracy" but the same result in the eyes of some of the public.

Just another great plan of "K" street. (As 99.44% of the laws that are passed for a special interest to gain an advantage to make money.)

SHF
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post #2888 of 2892 Old Today, 01:02 AM
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Originally Posted by SFischer1 View Post
Not a "Wacky Conspiracy" but the same result in the eyes of some of the public.

Just another great plan of "K" street. (As 99.44% of the laws that are passed for a special interest to gain an advantage to make money.)

SHF
Well this is all very secretive and confusing. As I am very much interested in this topic but don't really understand. Other than apparently TV channels above RF30 may be going away. I just hope when it's all said and done that current OTA coverage areas will be maintained. But I wish they would have just left things alone. There are enough wireless devices out there already and I don't care about instant access to insignificant social media on some small screen or cell phone. And I prefer to watch TV or video on a larger screen through traditional RF sources. You can't even go to a restaurant and have a conversation anymore because everybody has their face buried in some stupid cell phone.
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post #2889 of 2892 Old Today, 01:53 AM
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It's pretty much GUARANTEED that Coverage Areas will be REDUCED in many (most?) cases due to trying to assign many more Transmitters to operate on a LOT fewer Channels. And with ATSC 3.0 Transmitters likely to use Distributed Transmitter Networks on the SAME Frequency in a given area for Mobile/Handheld Stream Viewers, distances between neighboring Transmitters is reduced, although outlying "Fill-Ins" will probably be lower power. OTOH, with "Fill-In" Transmitters, the Station MIGHT decide they can lower the TX Power from their Primary "Stick". And, of course the Distributed Transmitter Network will greatly eliminate coverage "Holes" (behind hills, etc) in the intended Coverage Area.
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post #2890 of 2892 Old Today, 02:43 AM
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Well this is all very secretive and confusing. ....
Quote:
current OTA coverage areas will be maintained.
One of the persons who wrote a program to do exact ally that was recognized by the FCC and hired to do just that with his program.

ATSC 3.0 requires new Transmitters and DTV sets to be purchased and AFAIK is not part of the current auction process.

The number of RF channels after the process is done will be for ATSC 1.0 and 2.0 use.

If there are RF channels free then ATSC 3.0 can be used. There is one (1) station testing ATSC 3.0 and getting to all ATSC 3.0 stations will take some time. That one station is the only current legal one.

I was able to decode a MPEG4 stream from a station doing testing and the picture was great and the data rate very low.

Not every station will be on the air having taken the money and shut down. I hope that many will use MPEG4 which is in the ATSC 2.0 spec and 2-3 transmitters could handle all the foreign languages.

Check your DTV set for MPEG4 support, my new Sony Does.

SHF
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post #2891 of 2892 Old Today, 08:01 AM
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Originally Posted by dr1394 View Post
It's a "reverse" auction, so the price goes down in each round. A station remains in the auction by waiting until the reverse phase reaches the end (for the first reverse stage, it was 52 rounds) or they withdraw because they felt the price became too low.

The high number of rounds just gives a fine enough price decrement.

Ron

So the longer the process goes on the lower the price a station will get. At what point does the FCC decide to terminate a stage, reduce the amount of spectrum being offered and begin a new stage?

Will stations whose channel is not being cleared be affected by the repack? Will they be forced to relocate or share?
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post #2892 of 2892 Unread Today, 04:03 PM
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So the longer the process goes on the lower the price a station will get.
Yes, except that a station can provisionally win in an earlier round and the price becomes frozen. There's tons of documentation and tutorials on the FCC website.

https://www.fcc.gov/wireless/auction-1001

And if you can sit through it, here's an instructional video on the reverse bidding process.


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At what point does the FCC decide to terminate a stage, reduce the amount of spectrum being offered and begin a new stage?
If the forward auction doesn't generate enough funds to meet the reverse auction price. That already happened in stage 1, where the price was $88B and only $22B was bid. The clearing target went from 126 MHz to 114 MHz.

One thing to remember is that the broadcasters did not set the prices, the FCC did. The FCC intentionally set the prices high to entice the broadcasters to participate. You shouldn't think of the first stage as a failure, but rather as a first guess as to the actual value of the spectrum. The idea is that with enough stages, the amount of spectrum and what forward auction bidders are willing to pay for it will iterate out. Right now, many feel that 84 MHz is the convergence point.

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Will stations whose channel is not being cleared be affected by the repack? Will they be forced to relocate or share?
Everybody gets repacked, but if you didn't participate in the auction, you get to stay in your pre-auction band (lo-VHF, hi-VHF or UHF).

Ron

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