Rocky Mount, VA: antenna suggestions - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 25 Old 01-29-2011, 02:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Alright, I am sure there are plenty of posts asking the same thing here; however, since each individual lives in a unique area, I am sure there are just as many different answers. I wanted to provide everyone with the best possible amount of specific info to help me answer this question.

I am really tired of paying so much for Satellite and only watching a few channels, etc. etc. same old same old right. Well, I already have Netflix, will be getting Hulu Plus, among some other items. However, I do still want my locals.

We last had locals using an indoor amplified OTA antenna back when broadcast stations first put out digital signals. THis was well before the transition and analog was still being sent out as well.

I do have a TV with a built-in digital tuner, so got that covered. We do not live in a wide open area; however, there is not an inordinate amount of obstructions either.

As the crow flies, we live about 20 miles from Roanoke, VA which is where the transmitters are mostly located.

I was not 100% pleased with the internal antenna setup, so I wanted to look into getting as many of the OTA locals I can. Therefore, I am asking for tips on some antennas and amplifiers to look into based on the following info.

TV Fool Analysis: http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...3cf45d550d41ae

Here is a picture of the view from the back of my house with a marker of True North (the red arrow). The tree that is right in the foreground is my neighbors, but it is slowly dying and does not get very many leaves on it. In addition, bear in mind that the antenna will be at least 20 ft higher than this picture was taken at.

The trees in the background do not get any bigger than they are now, and there are no large mountains behind the horizon.





This picture is facing northwest, which as you can see from TVFool is not only the direction of Roanoke but is also the direction where most of the stations are coming from (that I am worried about anyway). Dead center of this picture is the direction I am referring to.






Thanks in advance for any help!

Mike
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post #2 of 25 Old 01-30-2011, 12:02 AM
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You might need to specify which channels you want. Depending on that, someone might give a good suggestion.
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post #3 of 25 Old 01-30-2011, 09:56 AM
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Very thorough post Shelzmike!

To acquire a full set of networks, you will need a full range antenna since there are low vhf (real ch 3), high vhf (real ch 13) and several uhf channels from Roanoke. You will also need to use a rotor since available channels have varying headings. You could use a combo antenna such as the Winegard 7084 or 8200U, a Channel Master 9521A rotor and a Channel Master 7777 pre-amp.


If you're willing to use more than one antenna, it is possible to develop a set up that does not require a rotor. We do need more information though... How important is PBS to you? If a gotta have, then you need a low vhf antenna. How important is ABC? If yes, then you need a high vhf antenna. Are there any advantages to acquiring two Fox channels (WFXR and WWCW)? If yes, you will need a high vhf + uhf antenna aimed at 42 degrees magnetic. My thoughts are: an Antenna Direct XG-91 for uhf (aim 323 degrees magnetic), a Winegard 5030 for real ch 3 (aimed at 323 degrees) and Winegard 1713 aimed at 42 degrees magnetic. Join the two vhf antennas with a HLSJ and then connect to the vhf port on a CM7777. Connect the XG-91 directly to the uhf input on the CM 7777. This approach will require a tall mast since you will need 3 to 4 feet of separation between antennas.

HTH

Rick
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post #4 of 25 Old 01-30-2011, 06:50 PM
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What kind of indoor amplified antenna did you use before?
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post #5 of 25 Old 01-30-2011, 07:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IDRick View Post

Very thorough post Shelzmike!

To acquire a full set of networks, you will need a full range antenna since there are low vhf (real ch 3), high vhf (real ch 13) and several uhf channels from Roanoke. You will also need to use a rotor since available channels have varying headings. You could use a combo antenna such as the Winegard 7084 or 8200U, a Channel Master 9521A rotor and a Channel Master 7777 pre-amp.


If you're willing to use more than one antenna, it is possible to develop a set up that does not require a rotor. We do need more information though... How important is PBS to you? If a gotta have, then you need a low vhf antenna. How important is ABC? If yes, then you need a high vhf antenna. Are there any advantages to acquiring two Fox channels (WFXR and WWCW)? If yes, you will need a high vhf + uhf antenna aimed at 42 degrees magnetic. My thoughts are: an Antenna Direct XG-91 for uhf (aim 323 degrees magnetic), a Winegard 5030 for real ch 3 (aimed at 323 degrees) and Winegard 1713 aimed at 42 degrees magnetic. Join the two vhf antennas with a HLSJ and then connect to the vhf port on a CM7777. Connect the XG-91 directly to the uhf input on the CM 7777. This approach will require a tall mast since you will need 3 to 4 feet of separation between antennas.

HTH

Rick

Maybe in place of the Winegard HD5030 for RF 3 would be either the Winegard YA 6260 or Antennacraft Y5-2-6. I'd keep the Winegard HD1713 for Hi-VHF.

If using separate antennas, I'd say if possible to locate the antennas in separate areas if a tall mast can't be accomplished.
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post #6 of 25 Old 01-30-2011, 11:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Woah! Thanks for the thorough responses and suggestions. I have loads to think about and look into. While I am not dead set against it, I would rather not have more than one antenna if I do not have to. However, I am a perfectionist by nature and would get aggrivated if I didn't get the best I possibly could in my situation.

Someone asked about the Channels I am looking for - all I really care about are PBS, CBS, NBC, ABC, and the WFXR fox channel. The WWCW is not really that big of a deal, though it is a little weird that they are different because they are coming from the same place as far as I know.

I will take a look into the suggestions and come back with any questions. Thanks!

Mike
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post #7 of 25 Old 01-31-2011, 03:09 AM
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If you're only looking for 1 antenna, then in the Winegard lineup, the HD8200U or HD7084 are big enough to pickup those distant stations. For Antennacraft, then the HD1850 would be a possible choice. If you decide to get separate VHF & UHF antennas, then the Winegard HD5030 for the VHF & for UHF, Antennas Direct XG91, Winegard HD9032, or Antennacraft MXU59. Regardless, these choices if only using 1 or 2 antennas will require a rotator. If a rotator is ok, then you just have to decide which one to get. You will need a pre-amp, & most people recommend the Channelmaster CM-7777 pre-amplifier. The Channelmaster pre-amplifier allowd you to amplify 2 antennas as long as it's separate VHF & UHF antennas. Otherwise, you can only amplify 1 antenna when hooking it to the UHF/combo (or might say UHF/Common) port.
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post #8 of 25 Old 01-31-2011, 09:48 AM
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Most of your stations point NW. ABC seems to be the only oddball pointing NE along with a second FOX station.
If you get a good VHF/UHF antenna and point it North between the 2, you should get both the NW and the NE stations fine since you are only 20 miles out. Thus you might not need a rotor and also you will probably not need an amp.
I would try just the antenna for now and go from there. You could always add the rotor and amp later.

Edit: Just realized the second Fox station to the NE is actually CW, not Fox, even though TVfool says its a Fox station. Also realized that the NE stations are 27 miles out. But you should still get them with no problem.
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post #9 of 25 Old 01-31-2011, 12:41 PM
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Lots of great follow-ups! I agree with mikepier that it is worth a shot at attempting to split the difference between the signals to the NW and NE. In my personal experience, I am splitting the difference between towers 70 degrees apart with great success. However, my NM's are 2 to 2.5 times that of the OP and all signals are LOS. Most of the stations are two edge to Mike's house, making it a bit more dicey to split the difference. But, yes, always worth a try! You won't know unless you give it a shot.
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post #10 of 25 Old 01-31-2011, 12:49 PM
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shelzmike,

You may want to check out rabbitears.info This site shows you the affiliation and sub channel listings for each broadcast station. Very handy when setting up an OTA system. Here is the link for your zip code: http://www.rabbitears.info/search.ph...pe=dBm&height=

HTH

Rick
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post #11 of 25 Old 01-31-2011, 04:22 PM
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post #12 of 25 Old 01-31-2011, 05:32 PM
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WFXR has Fox-HD and CW-SD. WWCW has CW-HD and Fox-SD. That's the difference, other than somewhat different coverage areas.

I think you should consider a two-antenna setup. You'll want as much antenna as you can get for WBRA-3. Their signal isn't as bad as it was before the transition, but it's still pretty awful, and I use a Y5-2-6 with an amp to pull it in as my weakest Roanoke station. I successfully receive WSET with that same antenna, which for me is twice the distance WSET is from you, but I'm only a few degrees off aim. Since it's about 90 degrees off, I'd be curious to see if you could pull WSET in off the side. If not, something like the Y10-7-13 could be aimed at WSET.

For UHF, if you don't need CW network in HD, don't worry about WWCW but it might be strong enough that even with an aim at Roanoke, you'll be able to see it, particularly if you can tease the aim east a little bit without losing Poor Mountain. I suspect TVFool is underestimating the strength of WDBJ, WFXR, and WSLS somewhat but it's probably about on the mark for WPXR. I suspect you'll find that WDBJ, WFXR, and WSLS are relatively easy catches with any UHF antenna, while WPXR will be harder.

You may find WXII 12-2 to be of interest; it has This TV with old MGM movies. In addition, WUNL is a superior PBS to WBRA. But these may not be possible to receive without a rotor and a good antenna.

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post #13 of 25 Old 01-31-2011, 10:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Awesome. You are all so helpful it's great. It make take me about a month to get all this stuff together and make a decision. One good thing is that I work at a little company called Antenna Communications Specialists (ACS) - however, I am just the IT guy and don't know much about the A side of the business! We are actually now strictly a Dish network regional service provider, but started out with antenna and c-band and now satellite. My point is that I can get some really deep discounts with Winegard and some other companies as well through our president who has years and years worth of rapport with them.

I think having 2 wouldn't be so bad afterall and plus as a bonus, it will probably look pretty cool - sort of a throwback if you will. I will keep you update on the progress. Thanks!

Mike
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post #14 of 25 Old 02-14-2011, 11:32 AM - Thread Starter
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As an update. I have been thinking about this and see no reason not to go with the dual setups. In my opinion this will give me the best possibility of success. As I mentioned before, we are an (old) antenna company, though I know nothing much about the technology, funny enough, since I am just the IT guy. It looks like I can get awesome prices on these things (at cost) so I am luck there. However, I cannot find the specified antenna that have been suggested here. I am going to look a few other places as well. However, more importantly, what are some of the specs that I should be looking for in case I cannot find these exact models?

I am also going to try without an amp and a rotor to start. However, in the instance that I need an amp for only a few channels, what are my options? Do they may any remotely controlled amps, or would I have to manually adjust it each time I needed to use it? Thanks!

Mike
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post #15 of 25 Old 02-14-2011, 11:55 AM - Thread Starter
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I have the new catalog from the supplier that we use and we do not have any of the antenna suggested here. That being said, it is because these are all both VHF and UHF combos, which I am not looking for. However, there is one that is UHF only, it is the Winegard HD9095P. Would this one work for my UHF needs, or would it be too much? Thanks!

Mike
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post #16 of 25 Old 02-14-2011, 12:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IDRick View Post

Very thorough post Shelzmike!

To acquire a full set of networks, you will need a full range antenna since there are low vhf (real ch 3), high vhf (real ch 13) and several uhf channels from Roanoke. You will also need to use a rotor since available channels have varying headings. You could use a combo antenna such as the Winegard 7084 or 8200U, a Channel Master 9521A rotor and a Channel Master 7777 pre-amp.


If you're willing to use more than one antenna, it is possible to develop a set up that does not require a rotor. We do need more information though... How important is PBS to you? If a gotta have, then you need a low vhf antenna. How important is ABC? If yes, then you need a high vhf antenna. Are there any advantages to acquiring two Fox channels (WFXR and WWCW)? If yes, you will need a high vhf + uhf antenna aimed at 42 degrees magnetic. My thoughts are: an Antenna Direct XG-91 for uhf (aim 323 degrees magnetic), a Winegard 5030 for real ch 3 (aimed at 323 degrees) and Winegard 1713 aimed at 42 degrees magnetic. Join the two vhf antennas with a HLSJ and then connect to the vhf port on a CM7777. Connect the XG-91 directly to the uhf input on the CM 7777. This approach will require a tall mast since you will need 3 to 4 feet of separation between antennas.

HTH

Rick

So, to clarify - you are suggesting 3 different antennas? One for low VHF, one for high VHF, and one for UHF? I am a little confused about this. Would this be only to avoid a rotor (that would probably be best since I have kids who watch tv and shouldnt and wouldn't know how to control it correctly.
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post #17 of 25 Old 02-14-2011, 01:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shelzmike View Post

So, to clarify - you are suggesting 3 different antennas? One for low VHF, one for high VHF, and one for UHF?

That's what I would do.

Y5-2-6 for WBRA
Y10-7-13 or YA1713 for ABC
91XG for UHF

Combine them exactly as described by IDRick.

If you want to play with reception when you're the only one watching, add a rotor to the UHF antenna and leave the VHF antennas fixed. You can mount them on separate masts.
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post #18 of 25 Old 02-14-2011, 01:34 PM
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Hello Mike,

You've been busy! The Winegard 9095 does not get alot of commentary on the antenna forums that I read. According to Winegard, the 9095 has excellent gain and is a good choice for fringe reception. However, the 9095 is significantly more expensive than the XG-91. Given the higher cost of the 9095 and excellent performance of the XG-91 at a lower cost, I still recommend the XG-91 as your UHF antenna. One can find many, many postive reviews of the XG-91 on-line.

For VHF, you can either use a single full VHF antenna or separate low VHF and high VHF. My earlier post was very conservative and suggests using three antennas (a low VHF antenna for WBRA, a high VHF antenna for WSET, and the XG-91 for UHF). VHF antennas have a much wider beamwidth than UHF antennas. You probably can get away with a full range VHF antenna such as the Winegard 5030 aimed approximately due North (magnetic compass heading) for both WBRA + WSET and then use the XG-91 for UHF (aimed at 323 degrees magnetic). At these headings, you should be able to get a full set of locals and not require a rotor. You can try it without a pre-amp but you'll have a much higher margin to cover distribution losses if you add the CM7777 pre-amp. The pre-amps are simply installed, antennas connected, make sure input is set on separate, add the power inserter to the coax inside your home, and you're done, no further change is needed. Your kids will never know it's there nor will they have to adjust it. If you don't buy the pre-amp, you'll need to buy a uvsj to join the two antennas in a single coax downlead.

***I see Tower Guy has weighed in. TG is conservative in his recommendations and highly respected on multiple forums. The single set may work well for you but the surest bet is to use separate vhf antennas for WBRA and WSET as originally stated.

HTH,

Rick
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post #19 of 25 Old 02-14-2011, 02:41 PM
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Actually, Rocky Mount VA is a pretty good reception area, at least it was with analog. Though the ridge in your picture is daunting, I believe it is easily overcome by the very high elevation of Poor Mountain, and the WSET/WWCW TX are just as high. However, you may want to consider a rotor, since it will provide most or all of the NC Triad stations as well, probably including WUNL. The three antenna solution proposed above gave me a little deja vu, since that was a common antenna set-up in Franklin County back in the day, except the low band VHF was pointed south to pick up WFMY which was popular there at the time. I don't think you'd need an amp for any of the Roanoke-Lynchburg channels.
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post #20 of 25 Old 02-15-2011, 11:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Once again, thanks for all the awesome advice. The next step is to now actually make a decision and make the purchases. This actually may take until the end of March, so unless I have any further questions before purchase and setup (which I am sure I will), the thread will probably be silent for a little while. Nevertheless, I will be taking on this task, just need to wait for the a.) extra funds to do so (see reference to kids above..lol), and b.) time (again..reference kids )

I will definitely follow up with results. Thanks!

Mike
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post #21 of 25 Old 05-15-2012, 11:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Watch for the dirt on this ancient thread, I had to resurrect it because the project got put on hold as we grudgingly decided to continue on with Satellite TV - primarily because of cost. However, we are back on board with wanting to take a look at actually implementing this. I have reviewed it and have a few more questions.

#1 - I am guessing these are still good antenna options (I will probably be going with the 3 antenna setup)

#2 - To clarify, if I go with the 3 antenna setup do I or do I not need a rotor to maximize the signal and channel selection?

#3 - If I go with the 3 antenna setup, can I mount them all on one pole? Do I need separate poles? How should they be arranged?

#4 - I am guess "HD Antenna" is just a marketing gimmick and no different really than regular antennae and these will pickup HD?

Thanks again. I am excited to get this project going.

Mike
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post #22 of 25 Old 01-24-2013, 01:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Well, I did not get a response on my last post several months ago but am shopping for the components of this system currently and just want to be sure that the antenna options are still relevant and well suited for my implementation? Thanks.

Oh, and I am still looking for responses to questions posted in my last response regarding the poles and rotor, etc.

Thanks again!

Mike
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post #23 of 25 Old 01-25-2013, 07:52 PM
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Not sure how much I can answer here, but...

Yes, HD antenna is a gimmick. Antenna is an antenna as long as it covers the right frequency ranges.

I still think the three-antenna setup is a good option, but I do think you could try a two-antenna option (low-VHF for 3 and 13, UHF for everything else) and see, then add the high-VHF later if needed. Rotor shouldn't be needed unless you plan to try to look at signals down toward Winston-Salem, but you could put one up if you want.

I can't speak to the spacing, but I'm sure you can put them all on one pole.

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post #24 of 25 Old 03-25-2013, 10:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Alright, so I am just about ready to pull the trigger on this (2 years later) and the one thing that I did not ask about was mounting accessory recommendations. I am putting this up on 2 poles and will be mounting them on the fascia board. I would like to get them as high as possible, but without looking ridiculous and being unstable. Any suggestions on brackets and what size pole should I be looking at?

FYI, I am going with the 3 antenna setup so a rotor is unnecessary I think.

Thanks!

Mike
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post #25 of 25 Old 06-28-2013, 02:30 PM - Thread Starter
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One last update (for now anyway). I actually completely changed directions and took a chance on something else and it worked very well. I created another thread that is the current "end" to this story: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1477298/mclapp-antenna-multiple-tvs-follow-up-to-older-project-post#post_23448959
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