El Cerrito, CA: Antenna advice (HD4400 or similar?) - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 10 Old 09-26-2011, 05:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi everyone, I put an el cheepo Eagle Aspen DB2 on my roof mast (25' up) but it ain't cutting it. Advice on a better antenna would be much appreciated. If you look at my tvfool results, most of what I want is in green and within 13 degrees. My DB2 is pointed right down the middle. Easy peasy.

Problems are I don't get KNTV at all, or KKPX reliably. Both are green, 1 Edge.

First thought -- after scrutinizing hdtvprimer.com -- is to get a Winegard HD4400 (<$30). That should be able to pull in KNTV and KKPX, right?

But here's the kicker: I'd really like to pull in KQEH, which is pink, 2 edge, and almost 90 degrees off from where I'm pointed. (It's got the only PBS Kids station around here.) Is there an antenna that I could point at KQEH and that would still be able to pick up most of my green stations from almost 90 degrees off-axis? I'm pretty sure I don't want to bother with an antenna rotator. Thanks
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post #2 of 10 Old 09-27-2011, 10:23 AM
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A CM 4228HD should get KQEH, but you would likely need a rotor.
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post #3 of 10 Old 09-27-2011, 10:50 AM
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79 degrees (mag) off-axis is a real challenge for any antenna. If you do not want to consider a rotor, then maybe a second antenna aimed specifically at the PBS station and an A-B switch at the TV (depending on how the TV scans for channels or whether it will allow you to ADD a channel after a scan).
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post #4 of 10 Old 09-27-2011, 10:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mc510 View Post

Problems are I don't get KNTV at all, or KKPX reliably. Both are green, 1 Edge.

First thought -- after scrutinizing hdtvprimer.com -- is to get a Winegard HD4400 (<$30). That should be able to pull in KNTV and KKPX, right?

I wouldn't count on an HD4400, rated for channels 14-69, to pick up KNTV on channel 12.

Your DB-2 has enough gain to pick up KKPX. Is the antenna aimed properly? Is it mounted on the roof and in the clear?
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post #5 of 10 Old 09-27-2011, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by mc510 View Post

Is there an antenna that I could point at KQEH and that would still be able to pick up most of my green stations from almost 90 degrees off-axis?

Maybe, but if you made it work, the off axis stations would drop out from time to time.

Consider two antennas and an A/B switch.
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post #6 of 10 Old 09-27-2011, 11:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Okay, thanks everybody. Time to think about two antennas, which gets to two more questions:

(1) What do I need to look for to get a good A/B switch (probably a remote control weather-proof model)? I've seen reference to a jointenna signal combiner; is this a potential solution for me?

(2) What antenna to point at KQEH? I'd have to upgrade my mast for a big antenna like a CM 4228; could I use something lighter like a yagi-type antenna?
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post #7 of 10 Old 09-27-2011, 01:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mc510 View Post


(1) What do I need to look for to get a good A/B switch (probably a remote control weather-proof model)? I've seen reference to a jointenna signal combiner; is this a potential solution for me?

(2) What antenna to point at KQEH? I'd have to upgrade my mast for a big antenna like a CM 4228; could I use something lighter like a yagi-type antenna?


The A/B switch goes near the TV set. Each antenna requires a dedicated feedline.

A Jointenna is intended to add a single channel from a second antenna. In your case your goal is an entire TV market. Yet if KSTS, KQEH, and KDTV are all you want from San Jose, a channel 50 Jointenna is likely to pass channels 49, 50, and 51. http://www.warrenelectronics.com/ant...Jointennas.htm

The 91XG is an excellent UHF only yagi style antenna. It is not a good choice to receive channels 2-13.
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post #8 of 10 Old 09-27-2011, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Tower Guy View Post

...A Jointenna is intended to add a single channel from a second antenna. ...a channel 50 Jointenna is likely to pass channels 49, 50, and 51. http://www.warrenelectronics.com/ant...Jointennas.htm

Tower Guy,
Can a Jointenna be used to attenuate a single channel that is too strong? For example, channel 50 in the tvfool below:
. . .

All channels on the list come in without a rotor or preamp, except the weakest one, KFTA RF 27. If the 7777 preamp is added, the strongest channel, KNWA RF 50 is unstable.
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post #9 of 10 Old 09-28-2011, 07:00 AM
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Originally Posted by arxaw View Post

Tower Guy,
Can a Jointenna be used to attenuate a single channel that is too strong?

Yes, but probably not enough to solve your problem.

I've never measured a Jointenna, even though I have access to the equipment to do so. The trap on a Jointenna is a low Q 2 element lumped constant filter.

I'd say that the 7777 preamp has too much gain. I seen many of your posts, but I don't recall what else you may have tried. The HDP-269 is suggested in cases of potential preamp overload. Based on the TVFool report, an HDP-269 has just enough gain with the reflector-less 4228 if the feedline is less than 50' and there is no splitter.

If you have a splitter try the AP-8700 instead, but it too may overload on channel 50.

Consider instead a simple low pass filter with a cut-off between channel 44 and channel 50 (~668 MHz). Install it between the antenna and preamp.
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post #10 of 10 Old 09-30-2011, 05:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tower Guy View Post

Yes, but probably not enough to solve your problem.

I've never measured a Jointenna, even though I have access to the equipment to do so. The trap on a Jointenna is a low Q 2 element lumped constant filter.

I'd say that the 7777 preamp has too much gain. I seen many of your posts, but I don't recall what else you may have tried. The HDP-269 is suggested in cases of potential preamp overload. Based on the TVFool report, an HDP-269 has just enough gain with the reflector-less 4228 if the feedline is less than 50' and there is no splitter.

If you have a splitter try the AP-8700 instead, but it too may overload on channel 50.

Consider instead a simple low pass filter with a cut-off between channel 44 and channel 50 (~668 MHz). Install it between the antenna and preamp.

I didn't install his current setup, but I will tell him to try what you have suggested. Thanks very much for your help.
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