DTV problems in 60099 - Page 7 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #181 of 218 Old 05-06-2012, 04:27 PM
Advanced Member
 
retiredengineer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Anaheim, CA
Posts: 546
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by BCF68 View Post

Did you see the pic he posted?

Yes I did. The laws of physics says objects less than a wavelength in size will scatter the signal in all directions and will be attenuated by the distance squared. This means that a reflection from a single leaf will be very small when it reachs the antenna. I'll concede that if you sum up the signal from every leaf from every nearby tree it is theoretically possible for you to get a multipath signal almost as strong as the direct signal (for an omnidirectional antenna.)
retiredengineer is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #182 of 218 Old 05-06-2012, 06:24 PM - Thread Starter
 
eric12341's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 143
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratman View Post

No matter... multipath or weak signals, the OP has a problem due to:
no money
no ladder
no support from family
no experience
... and whatever else.

As for trees and multipath, HDTVPrimer states this:




Do it right or subscribe to lifeline/antenna service from a cable provider.

yea that lengthy post from retiredengineer sure is making it seem like cable is the only solution at this location or a $500+ antenna setup that can extend over the trees towards the stratosphere. I see two setups like that, one is a few blocks to the west of my house and the other is a few blocks slightly southwest,although the west house isn't surrounded by trees but the southwestern one is a little bit. Who the came up with the idea to build trees right where people would put up antennas?

I'll make two calls tomorrow,one to this contractor that I've spoken to before from service magic.com and see what he says as far as setup and costs and/if it seems too much or complex then I'll have to submit to the cable companies who hold free TV hostage for a monthly fee and at lower bitrates (not looking forward to muffled surround sound channels again).
eric12341 is offline  
post #183 of 218 Old 05-06-2012, 11:57 PM
 
BCF68's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,463
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by retiredengineer View Post

Yes I did. The laws of physics says objects less than a wavelength in size will scatter the signal in all directions and will be attenuated by the distance squared. This means that a reflection from a single leaf will be very small when it reachs the antenna. I'll concede that if you sum up the signal from every leaf from every nearby tree it is theoretically possible for you to get a multipath signal almost as strong as the direct signal (for an omnidirectional antenna.)

you also saw the 2 building in his way too then. MUCH larger than leaves. Remember his antenna isn't more than a few feet above the ground.
BCF68 is offline  
post #184 of 218 Old 05-07-2012, 12:03 AM
 
BCF68's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,463
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by eric12341 View Post

yea that lengthy post from retiredengineer sure is making it seem like cable is the only solution at this location or a $500+ antenna setup that can extend over the trees towards the stratosphere.

It won't take $500 antenna( if there is such a thing )you just don't want to do what is suggested.

Quote:


I'll make two calls tomorrow,one to this contractor that I've spoken to before from service magic.com and see what he says as far as setup and costs and/if it seems too much or complex then I'll have to submit to the cable companies who hold free TV hostage for a monthly fee and at lower bitrates (not looking forward to muffled surround sound channels again).

it's simple.

A) A bit more height on the antenna. You'd be shocked what even a few more feet can do.

B) test different locations. Just not a couple of spots.

C) I assume you have a ladder or have access to one. So go to Home Depot and get some pruning equipment for $30. Your yard looks a mess anyways.
BCF68 is offline  
post #185 of 218 Old 05-07-2012, 11:26 AM - Thread Starter
 
eric12341's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 143
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by BCF68 View Post

It won't take $500 antenna( if there is such a thing )you just don't want to do what is suggested.



it's simple.

A) A bit more height on the antenna. You'd be shocked what even a few more feet can do.

B) test different locations. Just not a couple of spots.

C) I assume you have a ladder or have access to one. So go to Home Depot and get some pruning equipment for $30. Your yard looks a mess anyways.

C) that isn't my yard over the fence, that's my neighbor's.
eric12341 is offline  
post #186 of 218 Old 05-08-2012, 08:05 PM
 
BCF68's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,463
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by eric12341 View Post

C) that isn't my yard over the fence, that's my neighbor's.

The trees are on YOUR side of the fence. And if your neighbor did have trees that had branches hanging over on your property by law you can legally cut them.
BCF68 is offline  
post #187 of 218 Old 05-09-2012, 10:42 AM
Advanced Member
 
retiredengineer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Anaheim, CA
Posts: 546
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Here are two suggestions from TV station KYES on how to receive TV signals that reflect off of water:

"In coastal areas, or across bodies of sea water such as Cook Inlet, the antenna can receive a strong reflection from the sea as well as the direct signal. As the water level changes, the standing wave patterns change too. Mounting the antenna such that the roof screens it from the unwanted sea reflection but not the direct signal usually overcomes the problem. In extreme cases it may be necessary to use two antennas - one positioned for best results at high tide, the other for optimum reception at low tide."

With too many variables affecting solid reception, cable may be your better option.
retiredengineer is offline  
post #188 of 218 Old 05-09-2012, 01:33 PM
 
BCF68's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,463
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by retiredengineer View Post

Here are two suggestions from TV station KYES on how to receive TV signals that reflect off of water:

"In coastal areas, or across bodies of sea water such as Cook Inlet, the antenna can receive a strong reflection from the sea as well as the direct signal. As the water level changes, the standing wave patterns change too. Mounting the antenna such that the roof screens it from the unwanted sea reflection but not the direct signal usually overcomes the problem. In extreme cases it may be necessary to use two antennas - one positioned for best results at high tide, the other for optimum reception at low tide."

With too many variables affecting solid reception, cable may be your better option.

OR he could try to get in Milwaukee stations which are not coming over the water.
BCF68 is offline  
post #189 of 218 Old 05-09-2012, 01:52 PM - Thread Starter
 
eric12341's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 143
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by retiredengineer View Post

Here are two suggestions from TV station KYES on how to receive TV signals that reflect off of water:

"In coastal areas, or across bodies of sea water such as Cook Inlet, the antenna can receive a strong reflection from the sea as well as the direct signal. As the water level changes, the standing wave patterns change too. Mounting the antenna such that the roof screens it from the unwanted sea reflection but not the direct signal usually overcomes the problem. In extreme cases it may be necessary to use two antennas - one positioned for best results at high tide, the other for optimum reception at low tide."

With too many variables affecting solid reception, cable may be your better option.

I don't think that's the issue because there are trees that guard out the way to the lake. As for cable, not an option either because of the past due bill (even when I tried to get it in my name)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BCF68 View Post

OR he could try to get in Milwaukee stations which are not coming over the water.

There are even more trees in that direction so I would have to mount an antenna at least 50ft high to go over them. I called a contractor today but received no answer or callback as of yet, leaving me who knows how much longer more I have to suffer through reception issues on even the most basic stations.
eric12341 is offline  
post #190 of 218 Old 05-09-2012, 02:39 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Ratman's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Collingswood, N.J.
Posts: 14,398
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 138 Post(s)
Liked: 273
LOL...
can't get OTA due to trees.
can't get re-subscribed to cable due to unpaid bills.
probably can't get satellite.
probably no FiOS either (but worth a call to find out).

How does your family watch broadcast TV today?
Ratman is offline  
post #191 of 218 Old 05-09-2012, 02:46 PM
 
BCF68's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,463
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratman View Post

LOL...
can't get OTA due to trees.
can't get re-subscribed to cable due to unpaid bills.
probably can't get satellite.
probably no FiOS either (but worth a call to find out).

How does your family watch broadcast TV today?

Lake County is at&t area so that would be U-verse not FiOS.
BCF68 is offline  
post #192 of 218 Old 05-09-2012, 02:57 PM
 
BCF68's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,463
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by eric12341 View Post

I don't think that's the issue because there are trees that guard out the way to the lake. As for cable, not an option either because of the past due bill (even when I tried to get it in my name)


There are even more trees in that direction so I would have to mount an antenna at least 50ft high to go over them.

Here's an idea just TRT IT. Also try putting the antenna closer to the road you should have some clearance.
BCF68 is offline  
post #193 of 218 Old 05-09-2012, 03:49 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Ratman's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Collingswood, N.J.
Posts: 14,398
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 138 Post(s)
Liked: 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by BCF68 View Post

Lake County is at&t area so that would be U-verse not FiOS.

Whatever... no matter the available provider(s). I guess you missed my drift.

Kudos for trying to help, but IMO, it's is a lost cause.
This young fella has no money, no support from mom, dad and siblings and a bad credit record. And... can't borrow/rent a ladder.

I'm still curious though as to how the "family" watches broadcast TV today.
Ratman is offline  
post #194 of 218 Old 05-09-2012, 04:33 PM - Thread Starter
 
eric12341's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 143
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by BCF68 View Post

Here's an idea just TRT IT. Also try putting the antenna closer to the road you should have some clearance.

For that I would need more than the 25' of cable that I bought. Also another problem I would have is the 2 main stations I watch (telemundo and Univision) are only offered in Milwaukee on low power stations.
eric12341 is offline  
post #195 of 218 Old 05-09-2012, 04:42 PM - Thread Starter
 
eric12341's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 143
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratman View Post

Whatever... no matter the available provider(s). I guess you missed my drift.

Kudos for trying to help, but IMO, it's is a lost cause.
This young fella has no money, no support from mom, dad and siblings and a bad credit record. And... can't borrow/rent a ladder.

I'm still curious though as to how the "family" watches broadcast TV today.


My credit record is good, the cable that is disconnected due to financial problems is not in my name. The problem was they wouldn't let me get it in my name because I live in the same house with someone with a past due balance.

As to how we're watching TV today I'll be watching telemundo which has decent reception right now everyone else will probably be watching ION or ABC, nothing else gets in reliably today.
eric12341 is offline  
post #196 of 218 Old 05-09-2012, 05:21 PM
Advanced Member
 
retiredengineer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Anaheim, CA
Posts: 546
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 19
You can receive Telemundo on WBME, a full power station, on 49.4. You got a chance of receiving it since it comes from Racine, WI.
retiredengineer is offline  
post #197 of 218 Old 05-09-2012, 07:30 PM
 
BCF68's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,463
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by eric12341 View Post

For that I would need more than the 25' of cable that I bought. Also another problem I would have is the 2 main stations I watch (telemundo and Univision) are only offered in Milwaukee on low power stations.

So you can get another 25 feet of quad shield RG6 for under $20.

Do you have ALL the TVs hook up to the same antenna? If so you need a pre-amp. Also is the cable you bought RG6( preferably quad shield ) if it's cheap generic RG59 that might explain a lot. Also using a indoor antenna outside is not exactly wise. I can imagine what the winter weather does to an indoor antenna. I can't believe your parents won't even let you mount an antenna right above the roof line like you would a satellite dish. Like I said it would hurt to get or borrow some limb loppers and a ladder can't cut down as many branches as you can. Any amount of clearing you do will help.

Other than that I don't what else we can do for you. Lots of people have given you advice and all you can say to it is "no can't do that". Do you think if you say "no" enough we'll give in and use our magical powers of reception and make your stations come in for you?

Don't mean to be rude but either take our advice or quiet up about your problem already.
BCF68 is offline  
post #198 of 218 Old 05-10-2012, 04:11 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Ratman's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Collingswood, N.J.
Posts: 14,398
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 138 Post(s)
Liked: 273
Ratman is offline  
post #199 of 218 Old 05-20-2012, 12:03 PM - Thread Starter
 
eric12341's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 143
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I've been trying to get a contractor but he didn't show up when he said he would or even bother to reschedule. On Tuesday I did cut some branches from the trees on the lower level of my side yard and that improved reception a bit but now the issues have returned it seems
eric12341 is offline  
post #200 of 218 Old 05-20-2012, 02:45 PM
 
BCF68's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,463
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 19
you're going to have to move the antenna around and try different spots and you certainly going to have to get it up higher than chair level.
BCF68 is offline  
post #201 of 218 Old 06-03-2012, 06:39 PM - Thread Starter
 
eric12341's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 143
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Using the ANT751 now and the results are the same as with the terk. Bought 3 winegard 5ft poles thinking they could be stitched together but it wasn't possible, on top of all that my dad says that it isn't possible to put it on the roof because there isn't anywhere to fasten it to.
eric12341 is offline  
post #202 of 218 Old 06-03-2012, 10:11 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Ken H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Metro Detroit
Posts: 45,876
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by eric12341 View Post

Using the ANT751 now and the results are the same as with the terk. Bought 3 winegard 5ft poles thinking they could be stitched together but it wasn't possible, on top of all that my dad says that it isn't possible to put it on the roof because there isn't anywhere to fasten it to.

There are literally dozens and dozens of mounts for TV antennas. A five second Google shows this source, which has all sorts of options for attics, sides of structures, vent pipes, tripods, flat mounts, etc.

http://www.3starinc.com/antenna_roof_mounts.html
http://www.3starinc.com/antenna_mounts_masts.html

'Better Living Through Modern, Expensive, Electronic Devices'

Ken H is offline  
post #203 of 218 Old 06-04-2012, 10:46 AM - Thread Starter
 
eric12341's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 143
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken H View Post

There are literally dozens and dozens of mounts for TV antennas. A five second Google shows this source, which has all sorts of options for attics, sides of structures, vent pipes, tripods, flat mounts, etc.

http://www.3starinc.com/antenna_roof_mounts.html
http://www.3starinc.com/antenna_mounts_masts.html

doesn't say those masts are combinable, the ANT 751 came wih a J-mount anyway.

Lost WGN, WSNS again and WGBO is cutting in and out. Don't get why it's so difficult now just to be able to watch my telenovelas that I've been watching for 10 years now. Another thing about WGN is signal strength is 60% but signal quality is 0% FML!! Just more senseless deficiencies in the 8VSB standard.
eric12341 is offline  
post #204 of 218 Old 06-04-2012, 11:13 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Ratman's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Collingswood, N.J.
Posts: 14,398
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 138 Post(s)
Liked: 273
Ratman is offline  
post #205 of 218 Old 06-04-2012, 11:25 AM - Thread Starter
 
eric12341's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 143
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratman View Post


if you have nothing useful to contribute then don't post.
eric12341 is offline  
post #206 of 218 Old 06-04-2012, 12:49 PM
 
BCF68's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,463
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by eric12341 View Post

if you have nothing useful to contribute then don't post.

you can take the same advice. we've have told you for a year what you need to do, but you don't listen. You come up with excuses. I'm not sure what else you want form us. Say abracadabra and make your reception better? I'm really to the point I wish the mods would close this thread. All the answer you seek are already posted.
BCF68 is offline  
post #207 of 218 Old 06-06-2012, 05:06 PM - Thread Starter
 
eric12341's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 143
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by BCF68 View Post


you can take the same advice. we've have told you for a year what you need to do, but you don't listen. You come up with excuses. I'm not sure what else you want form us. Say abracadabra and make your reception better? I'm really to the point I wish the mods would close this thread. All the answer you seek are already posted.

I have followed the directions given the best I could. I chopped off some tree branches, moved the antenna away from the sides of the house and things are still problematic. No one should have to put an antenna 50ft up just to watch the channels they were able to watch before ,even with trees around. If it weren't for our stupid government choosing the 8VSB modulation this wouldn't be a problem. What's even more fúcked up is I can receive WOCH-CA 41 almost clear and this is supposedly a low power station, yet can barely get in any full power stations reliably.

Another shameful thing is all the FCC suggests is to get cable or a 30' to 50' antenna setup.
eric12341 is offline  
post #208 of 218 Old 06-06-2012, 09:16 PM
 
BCF68's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,463
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Sorry dude but cutting down a couple of braches and using an indoor antenna outside and setting it on a chair then wondering why you're reception sucks, well we've explained that set up isn't going to work. You realize when the digital law passed that was in 1996. I'm sure 8VSB modulation looked good at the time. You don't need an antenna 50 feet up. You simply REFUSE to do what we advise you on. Could you do something as simple as get a 8 foot pool attach the antenna to that and try different spots and see if that changes anything? I'm sure just about anything is better than the 2 feet off the ground you have the antenna now will work better.
BCF68 is offline  
post #209 of 218 Old 06-06-2012, 10:22 PM - Thread Starter
 
eric12341's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 143
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by BCF68 View Post

Sorry dude but cutting down a couple of braches and using an indoor antenna outside and setting it on a chair then wondering why you're reception sucks, well we've explained that set up isn't going to work. You realize when the digital law passed that was in 1996. I'm sure 8VSB modulation looked good at the time. You don't need an antenna 50 feet up. You simply REFUSE to do what we advise you on. Could you do something as simple as get a 8 foot pool attach the antenna to that and try different spots and see if that changes anything? I'm sure just about anything is better than the 2 feet off the ground you have the antenna now will work better.

I'm using the ANT751 now which is an outdoor antenna, I dont refuse to do anything. the 8ft idea will be the next thing i try along with the 50ft of cable idea as soon as i get these 3 useless winegard mast poles sent back and use that money to buy the next suggestions. 8VSB modulation is far inferior to the DVB-T and ISDB systems used elsewhere around the world. at least those settings work better for tree saturated areas.
eric12341 is offline  
post #210 of 218 Old 06-08-2012, 04:10 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
scowl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 10,440
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by eric12341 View Post

8VSB modulation is far inferior to the DVB-T and ISDB systems used elsewhere around the world. at least those settings work better for tree saturated areas.

In case you're planning on moving, many Brits had exactly the same digital reception problems that you're having.

NOW: my post on AVS Forum.
NEXT: someone else's post on AVS Forum.
scowl is offline  
Reply HDTV Technical

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off