Rewired Home with RG6 Cable - Questions about splitting lines - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 25 Old 02-07-2012, 10:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi

I am in the NY/NJ area and my cable provider is Cablevision. I have a few questions about my wiring which I hope someone can help me with.

- I Currently have my trunk line split 4 ways with a 5 - 1000ghz spliter that goes to 2 HD boxes, 1 SD box and 1 Modem. The picture quality on all TVs is great.. Internet speed is ok as well.

- I ran all new lines using RG6 Double Insulated Coax with solid copper center but haven't tied them in yet.

- My new main line/trunk is about 30 feet long and goes into a Leviton 8-Way passive splitter and will split out to 8 different locations. One of these locations being the cable modem.


My questions are..

1 - Should I use a 2-Way splitter before I go into the 8-Way passive splitter to tie the modem in?

2 - If yes, does that need to be a Bi-Directional Splitter?

3 - Should I use a 5 - 2.4ghz or would the 5 - 1000 suffice?

I know that I may either need an amp or to ask Cablevision to turn up the service to allow for the additional lines so I am good on that front.. just want to see if I should split out the cable modem before all of the other SD/HDTV Lines.

Any responses will be appreciated.
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post #2 of 25 Old 02-07-2012, 01:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msaggio View Post

Hi

I am in the NY/NJ area and my cable provider is Cablevision. I have a few questions about my wiring which I hope someone can help me with.

- I Currently have my trunk line split 4 ways with a 5 - 1000ghz spliter that goes to 2 HD boxes, 1 SD box and 1 Modem. The picture quality on all TVs is great.. Internet speed is ok as well.

- I ran all new lines using RG6 Double Insulated Coax with solid copper center but haven't tied them in yet.

- My new main line/trunk is about 30 feet long and goes into a Leviton 8-Way passive splitter and will split out to 8 different locations. One of these locations being the cable modem.


My questions are..

1 - Should I use a 2-Way splitter before I go into the 8-Way passive splitter to tie the modem in?

2 - If yes, does that need to be a Bi-Directional Splitter?

3 - Should I use a 5 - 2.4ghz or would the 5 - 1000 suffice?

I know that I may either need an amp or to ask Cablevision to turn up the service to allow for the additional lines so I am good on that front.. just want to see if I should split out the cable modem before all of the other SD/HDTV Lines.

Any responses will be appreciated.

1. I'm not sure what your "passive" splitter really is - an 8 output 0dB gain distribution amplifier, or a simple 1->8 splitter. If it is a DA, chances are it is one-way, so the modem should be split off first. If it is a simple splitter, then it has 9.5dB-12dB insertion loss, so the modem should be split-off first. In either event, split the modem first.

2. All 1->2 splitters that i've seen are bi-directional. Some are DC blocking, and some are DC passing, but they are all bi-directional.

3. A 1GHz splitter is fine for now. I wouldn't even consider a 2GHz splitter unless your cable system uses the 840MHz-1GHz bandwidth. Most don't.
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post #3 of 25 Old 02-08-2012, 07:54 AM
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Passive is the only kind of splitter there is. Many manufacturers make an amplifier that has a splitter on the output. Somebody coined the term "active splitter" for marketing purposes, and the term took off. What is often called an "active splitter" is merely an amp with a passive splitter on the output.

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post #4 of 25 Old 02-08-2012, 12:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks.. you guys rock!
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post #5 of 25 Old 02-08-2012, 01:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by egnlsn View Post

Passive is the only kind of splitter there is. Many manufacturers make an amplifier that has a splitter on the output. Somebody coined the term "active splitter" for marketing purposes, and the term took off. What is often called an "active splitter" is merely an amp with a passive splitter on the output.

Well, no. A splitter can be DC passive, or be DC blocking. DC blocking is not passive at all.
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post #6 of 25 Old 02-08-2012, 01:37 PM
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Everything I've read (and the way mine is hooked up) says your cable modem should be on the first splitter coming into the house, with all the TV signals on the other side. At the very least - any / all splitters to the cable modem (and probably your cable boxes) need to be bi-directional.

You CAN put antennas on your owned and/or controlled property...
http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html

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post #7 of 25 Old 02-08-2012, 05:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by domino92024 View Post


Well, no. A splitter can be DC passive, or be DC blocking. DC blocking is not passive at all.

Splitters are passive in reference to whatever bandwidth they are designed for. Most splitters used in the CATV industry have a bandwidth of 5-1000MHz, yet do not pass D.C.

Whether it passes D.C. or not is a totally separate thing from its passing of R.F.

CIAO!

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post #8 of 25 Old 02-08-2012, 06:43 PM
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Unfortunately, too many people in this industry use the term, "power passive" when they should be using "power passing".

... which doesn't irk me as much as hearing bar owners refer to their "on-premises" liquor license as an "on premise" license.
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post #9 of 25 Old 02-08-2012, 10:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by egnlsn View Post

Splitters are passive in reference to whatever bandwidth they are designed for. Most splitters used in the CATV industry have a bandwidth of 5-1000MHz, yet do not pass D.C.

Whether it passes D.C. or not is a totally separate thing from its passing of R.F.

...And the sun rises in the east, water runs downhill...

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post #10 of 25 Old 02-09-2012, 03:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msaggio View Post

Hi

I ran all new lines using RG6 Double Insulated Coax with solid copper center but haven't tied them in yet.

If possible, run a second coax to each location so you can have OTA broadcast with an antenna as a backup. These coaxes would plug into the ANT RF input in back of the TV's.

The other ends would tie into a seperate splitter fed from an antenna.
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post #11 of 25 Old 02-09-2012, 05:17 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikepier View Post

If possible, run a second coax to each location so you can have OTA broadcast with an antenna as a backup. These coaxes would plug into the ANT RF input in back of the TV's.

The other ends would tie into a seperate splitter fed from an antenna.

Why not do it the simple way, and that is run one run back to a central point, so that if you wish to hook up an antenna, or a combiner, so that you can have both incoming catv & OTA, it makes things simple. No need to over do, or over think things.

Too many people make these situations harder than they actually need to be.
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post #12 of 25 Old 02-09-2012, 06:32 AM
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In the situation mike pier was talking about - you WOULD need separate coax feeds for cable and OTA TV.

You CAN put antennas on your owned and/or controlled property...
http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html

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post #13 of 25 Old 02-09-2012, 08:13 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Scooper View Post

In the situation mike pier was talking about - you WOULD need separate coax feeds for cable and OTA TV.

No you would not. Home run evverything to a patch panel and go from there, with the proper equipment.
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post #14 of 25 Old 02-09-2012, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by gregzoll View Post

No you would not. Home run evverything to a patch panel and go from there, with the proper equipment.

Yes you do - 2 feeds of RG6 to each room from the patch panel. You cannot put cable AND OTA on the same cable at the same time. This is if you want cable AND OTA both available all the time.

If you only need one or the other - then yes, 1 cable would be sufficient.

You CAN put antennas on your owned and/or controlled property...
http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html

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post #15 of 25 Old 02-09-2012, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by gregzoll View Post

No you would not. Home run evverything to a patch panel and go from there, with the proper equipment.


If you wanted to dedicate 1 TV to cable, and 1 TV to strictly OTA, then that's fine.
But if you ran 2 seperate coaxes, you have the luxury of having both without having to switch cables around at the patch panel or at the STB/TV.
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post #16 of 25 Old 02-09-2012, 10:24 AM
 
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Originally Posted by mikepier View Post

If you wanted to dedicate 1 TV to cable, and 1 TV to strictly OTA, then that's fine.
But if you ran 2 seperate coaxes, you have the luxury of having both without having to switch cables around at the patch panel or at the STB/TV.

You are still going to have to go into the tv settings and switch from CATV to Antenna. Again, with a proper set up, you would handle the switching through the system that feeds all equipment feeds to the tv in that room. So your theory just got thrown out the window.

Again, do it properly and with the right equipment, you can use one coax, or hdmi, or component to feed everything through. So, care to throw anything else out there mikepier.
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post #17 of 25 Old 02-09-2012, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by gregzoll View Post

You are still going to have to go into the tv settings and switch from CATV to Antenna. Again, with a proper set up, you would handle the switching through the system that feeds all equipment feeds to the tv in that room. So your theory just got thrown out the window.

Again, do it properly and with the right equipment, you can use one coax, or hdmi, or component to feed everything through. So, care to throw anything else out there mikepier.

Read the original post. The OP has 3 STB's. Explain to me how your magic switching equipment can switch from cable to OTA if the coax is going into the STB's.
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post #18 of 25 Old 02-09-2012, 11:37 AM
 
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All set tops in the same closet, utilizing rf remotes to do the backgaul of changing chammels. Switchin equipment also in same closet to do the work of allowing the user to seap between various sources.

Gee, do I have to do all of the thinking for you, or just wanting to see if I actually know more about making this easier than you can.
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post #19 of 25 Old 02-09-2012, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gregzoll View Post

All set tops in the same closet, utilizing rf remotes to do the backgaul of changing chammels. Switchin equipment also in same closet to do the work of allowing the user to seap between various sources.

Gee, do I have to do all of the thinking for you, or just wanting to see if I actually know more about making this easier than you can.

And how would you handle getting the OTA channels without buying 3 seperate ATSC boxes?
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post #20 of 25 Old 02-09-2012, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by mikepier View Post


And how would you handle getting the OTA channels without buying 3 seperate ATSC boxes?

Looks like you stumped him...he obviously knows nothing but he will not admit when he's wrong. I wouldn't even bother getting into it with him, it's a lost cause. A conservative 90% of gregzoll's posts contribute nothing but confusion and disbelief to any thread he takes part in.

To the OP , do yourself a favor and run 2 coax to each outlet as mikepier suggested. Following gregzoll will leave you broke from equipment expenses and frustrated beyond belief.
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post #21 of 25 Old 02-09-2012, 01:10 PM
 
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Again, with the proper switchers. I love when hobbiests can not think out of the box.
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post #22 of 25 Old 02-10-2012, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by gregzoll View Post

I love when hobbiests can not think out of the box.

Greg, with all respect, while there are audio-video hobbyists here (I'm one), this forum is the AV __SCIENCE__ forum, and IN GENERAL we try to apply accepted and proven technologies when helping others.

Note; I am NOT a moderator.

More so here than on some other forums, I try to analyze my responses to be complete, accurate, and polite ... and something that can be implemented by anyone.

Your posts are insightful (that's good) but sometimes, as my mother used to say, your eyes are larger than your stomach. Read the thread to understand the question, cogitate a while, then give a well thought out useful answer.
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post #23 of 25 Old 02-10-2012, 01:14 PM
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Originally Posted by gregzoll View Post

Again, with the proper switchers. I love when hobbiests can not think out of the box.

...hobbyists....outside the box.
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post #24 of 25 Old 02-12-2012, 07:15 AM
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I would just run two RG-6/U to each location, with one carrying the Cable TV signal and one carrying a split of the OTA signal. The OTA goes in to the TV set, so you can get all of your locals (even the ones that Cable does not carry) and they can also be a "backup", and the TV neds to be set for "Air" or "Antenna" mode. The Cable TV feed goes in to the cable boxes, and they should be feeding video and audio signals to the sets.

If you plan to split the Cable feed, you could use a two-way splitter before the 4-way or 8-way, to feed the internet modem.
The modem and the cable boxes are all likely to be bi-directional, so they all will be calling-out upstream anyway, so not a big deal...if they are on a good line, there should be plenty of power to launch back to the Cable company. The Cable guys just like to keep the path a bit shorter on the internet modem side of things.

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post #25 of 25 Old 02-12-2012, 08:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gregzoll View Post

All set tops in the same closet, utilizing rf remotes to do the backgaul of changing chammels. Switchin equipment also in same closet to do the work of allowing the user to seap between various sources.

Gee, do I have to do all of the thinking for you, or just wanting to see if I actually know more about making this easier than you can.

Sure that scheme will work - if you want to go broke buying 20-30 STBs (for a "typical" TV market), plus the associated modulators.

Much cheaper to run 2 RG6 cables to each location, putting an STB at each TV that needs it for OTA, and using the other cable for "Cable" / satelite programming.

You CAN put antennas on your owned and/or controlled property...
http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html

Being A Beacon of Knowledge in the darkness of FUD
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