Do I 'need' a 24AWG HDMI cable when using an HDMI splitter? - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 20 Old 07-07-2012, 11:12 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
LastQuestion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 130
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Going to use an HDMI splitter in order to capture gameplay from my 360. Monoprice has a cheap and well reviewed HDMI splitter and they "strongly recommend" using 24AWG cables to avoid signal loss, which basically results in handshake issues. I'm curious how necessary this is. I already have a 4' RocketFish Advanced Series 4 cable I planned to use as the input to the splitter and two monoprice 6' 24AWG cable as output but the tech dude on monoprice said I should use 24AWG for all of them. I honestly can't find out what AWG the Rocketfish is so far, so I've been assuming it's 28awg.

So, are they simply trying to get me to buy more stuff from them with this recommendation? Will I be fine with the Rocketfish?
LastQuestion is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 20 Old 07-07-2012, 11:39 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Colm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 4,652
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 87
You are probably fine with what you already have. Try it and see.
Colm is offline  
post #3 of 20 Old 07-07-2012, 12:06 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
LastQuestion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 130
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Well, you see, I'd like to get everything purchased in one order, to cut down on shipping costs, so finding out beforehand whether or not I would have issues is why I'm here.
LastQuestion is offline  
post #4 of 20 Old 07-07-2012, 12:55 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Colm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 4,652
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 87
You aren't going to know until you try. Nobody is going to guarantee to you that what you have will or will not work. You pays your money and takes your chances.

FWIW the recommendation to use 24 AWG cable has been monoprice's pat response to folks for all kinds of problems. It doesn't mean it necessarily won't work if you use smaller.
Colm is offline  
post #5 of 20 Old 07-07-2012, 01:54 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Ratman's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Collingswood, N.J.
Posts: 14,254
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 73 Post(s)
Liked: 235
If you're already buying 2, add a third. For the sake a few more $$, it eliminates the concern and saves on shipping.
Also, you'll have an extra cable for future needs.
Ratman is online now  
post #6 of 20 Old 07-07-2012, 05:14 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
walford's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 16,789
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
You certainly don't need 24 gauge on the 6ft cables.
If the rocketfish cable is over 15 fee and you plan on using a 3D blu-ray playert I would consider 24 gauge.
The monoprice rep does not understand basic celectricity his position is like the guy in the plumbing department telling you that you need 2" pipes going from the wall to the faucetts under your sinik if the water coming to your house comes in a 2" pipe.
walford is offline  
post #7 of 20 Old 07-08-2012, 03:16 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Colm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 4,652
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by walford View Post

The monoprice rep...like the guy in the plumbing department telling you that you need 2" pipes going from the wall to the faucetts under your sinik if the water coming to your house comes in a 2" pipe.
Sometimes where you shop makes a difference. My plumbing guy would never do something like that, but he is not at a big box store. And monoprice is very much the big box store of etail electronics.
Colm is offline  
post #8 of 20 Old 07-09-2012, 09:41 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
LastQuestion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 130
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by walford View Post

You certainly don't need 24 gauge on the 6ft cables.
If the rocketfish cable is over 15 fee and you plan on using a 3D blu-ray playert I would consider 24 gauge.
The monoprice rep does not understand basic celectricity his position is like the guy in the plumbing department telling you that you need 2" pipes going from the wall to the faucetts under your sinik if the water coming to your house comes in a 2" pipe.

Ya, I don't know if I made it entirely clear. The recommendation for 24AWG is only given for when using an HDMI splitter/switch. I also failed to mention the rocketfish is 4 ft; I'll edit OP to correct that omission.

Honestly, I was hoping for some form of technical explanation, in some degree, as to why it would or would not be an issue so as to gain some understanding about this subject. A metaphor for plumbing no doubt suffices for most guys but I'd honestly be more pleased by being linked a 100 page thread on the subject matter and told to start reading tongue.gif.
LastQuestion is offline  
post #9 of 20 Old 07-09-2012, 11:40 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Ratman's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Collingswood, N.J.
Posts: 14,254
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 73 Post(s)
Liked: 235
If you are using a "passive" HDMI splitter (not powered, no signal booster, no equalizer), just get the recommended cable. rolleyes.gif
The technical explanation is that with a passive switch/splitter, you a essentially halving the signal power.
Ratman is online now  
post #10 of 20 Old 07-09-2012, 07:48 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Colm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 4,652
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratman View Post

If you are using a "passive" HDMI splitter...
I don't think I have ever seen a true passive HDMI splitter that works. I have seen passive switches, though. A HDMI splitter has to do more than split the power between two sets of TMDS pairs. Most so called passive HDMI splitters are actually active splitters that are powered off the 5V line of the HDMI cable. And they regenerate the signal.
Colm is offline  
post #11 of 20 Old 07-09-2012, 08:03 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Colm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 4,652
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by LastQuestion View Post

I was hoping for some form of technical explanation...
Well, we already gave you the simple explanation that monoprice's advice is just BS. That means there is no technical basis for it. But lets talk about how wire gauge affects the signal.

One of the factors that affects the quality of the signal received by a HDMI device is resistance of the cable. Smaller AWG equals larger wire cross section. Larger wire cross section equals lower resistance for a given length. Lower resistance means the signal at the receiving end is attenuated less. IOW the signal is stronger. Over short distances, say up to 10 feet or so, the signal will usually be strong enough with even a 28 AWG cable. Longer distances may require larger cable (smaller AWG). That is pretty much all there is to wire gauge.

Wire gauge is not the sole, or even the primary, determinant of signal quality in an HDMI cable. There are other things, like skew, crosstalk, etc.

With an HDMI device, if the input signal is just good enough (in amplitude, shape, etc.), the result will be essentially the same as if the input signal was perfect. Best analogy I can think of is those web applications that make you type in a text sequence that is displayed in a garbled, but intelligible, way to weed out bots.

Of course, all the electronics involved, the bit rate, and the environment also affect what will work and won't work.
Colm is offline  
post #12 of 20 Old 07-09-2012, 09:17 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
LastQuestion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 130
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colm View Post

Well, we already gave you the simple explanation that monoprice's advice is just BS. That means there is no technical basis for it. But lets talk about how wire gauge affects the signal.
One of the factors that affects the quality of the signal received by a HDMI device is resistance of the cable. Smaller AWG equals larger wire cross section. Larger wire cross section equals lower resistance for a given length. Lower resistance means the signal at the receiving end is attenuated less. IOW the signal is stronger. Over short distances, say up to 10 feet or so, the signal will usually be strong enough with even a 28 AWG cable. Longer distances may require larger cable (smaller AWG). That is pretty much all there is to wire gauge.
Wire gauge is not the sole, or even the primary, determinant of signal quality in an HDMI cable. There are other things, like skew, crosstalk, etc.
With an HDMI device, if the input signal is just good enough (in amplitude, shape, etc.), the result will be essentially the same as if the input signal was perfect. Best analogy I can think of is those web applications that make you type in a text sequence that is displayed in a garbled, but intelligible, way to weed out bots.
Of course, all the electronics involved, the bit rate, and the environment also affect what will work and won't work.

Thanks. Puts my mind at ease knowing the extent of the BS monoprice is shoveling. smile.gif
LastQuestion is offline  
post #13 of 20 Old 07-09-2012, 09:26 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Colm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 4,652
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 87
FWIW I think monoprice is very good a what it does, and that is provide decent products at a great price. Their customer support is excellent, but they really don't seem to be technical experts, although they seem to be improving.
Colm is offline  
post #14 of 20 Old 07-09-2012, 10:02 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
LastQuestion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 130
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colm View Post

FWIW I think monoprice is very good a what it does, and that is provide decent products at a great price. Their customer support is excellent, but they really don't seem to be technical experts, although they seem to be improving.

Yes, I've heard nothing but good things about them. Honestly, I felt the recommendation was done just as much about reducing customers calling support for questions/problems as it was about increasing sales. I honestly didn't consider that they might not have enough technical understanding on the subject though. Interesting to look at it that way.
LastQuestion is offline  
post #15 of 20 Old 07-10-2012, 11:12 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Beerstalker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Peoria, IL
Posts: 1,978
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 23
For an extra $6/7 I would just go ahead and buy a 4ft 24Ga cable to replace the Rocketfish. You said you want to save on shipping costs, think of it this way, if for some reason the Rocketfish cable doesnt' work and you didn't buy the 4ft Monoprice cable you are probably going to have to spend about $12 ($6 for the cable, and $6 for shipping) to get it later. If you just get it now it's only going to cost $7 ($6 for cable $1 for shipping I'm estimating). If the Rocketfish cabel works fine, then you now have an extra HDMI cable for future use, if it doesn't then you saved yourself $5 by oprdering it now instead of later.

Personally, whenever I make an order from Monoprice I order a few extra to keep on hand for whenever I need them. This saves me on shipping, sometimes makes them cheaper etc. I usually end up hooking up all my friends electronics when they buy them so I'm always needing cables to do that, I'd rather have them on hand then have to place a new order and wait on shipping if I don't have to.
Beerstalker is offline  
post #16 of 20 Old 07-10-2012, 02:19 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Ratman's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Collingswood, N.J.
Posts: 14,254
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 73 Post(s)
Liked: 235
^^^
As I suggested/alluded in post #5.

I can't see why anyone would balk at a few more dollars. (But that's just me)
Ratman is online now  
post #17 of 20 Old 07-10-2012, 04:43 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
LastQuestion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 130
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratman View Post

^^^
As I suggested/alluded in post #5.
I can't see why anyone would balk at a few more dollars. (But that's just me)

It's not so much the money, it's the lack of space for stuff I don't use. I already have a collection of old parts/cables/etc that I do not use/have no use for. In short, I'm running out of space to put these things, so I'm trying to minimize what I have to store from now on.
LastQuestion is offline  
post #18 of 20 Old 07-11-2012, 06:58 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Beerstalker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Peoria, IL
Posts: 1,978
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by LastQuestion View Post

It's not so much the money, it's the lack of space for stuff I don't use. I already have a collection of old parts/cables/etc that I do not use/have no use for. In short, I'm running out of space to put these things, so I'm trying to minimize what I have to store from now on.

Sounds like it's time to clean house then. You can probably e-cycle a lot of your old composite, S-Video, component, optical, and stereo RCA cables to make some more room since pretty much everything is going to HDMI.
Beerstalker is offline  
post #19 of 20 Old 07-11-2012, 07:34 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Ratman's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Collingswood, N.J.
Posts: 14,254
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 73 Post(s)
Liked: 235
If you have a collection old parts/cables/etc.that you have no use for, then remove one (for example: a parallel printer cable) and replace that with the spare HDMI cable.wink.gif
Sorry.... but that's the lamest excuse to not buy a cable that I've ever heard. eek.gif
Ratman is online now  
post #20 of 20 Old 07-11-2012, 07:53 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Colm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 4,652
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratman View Post

...a parallel printer cable...
Wow, you are showing your age. Hmmm...reminds me, I need to get rid of one.
Colm is offline  
Reply HDTV Technical

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off