looking for hotel solution to HD TV with NON Pro:IDIOM TVs. - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 20 Old 07-19-2012, 11:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Can anyone help me find an alternative to buying all new TVs for a hotel? we have Direct TV Head end and need to provide some HD channels to our rooms. our TVs do not have PRO:IDIOM. we are OK with exploring all options and even abandoning Direct TV. there is no CATV service in the area. WE do have all HDTV flatscreens with USB and HDMI ports. would welcome any and all input but the cheapest and simplest solution wins. Thanks!cool.gif
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post #2 of 20 Old 09-18-2012, 11:56 AM
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You would need a SBB (set back box) for your model TV and what that is is a decoder for the pro idiom signals. By contacting the maker of your TV model or Enseo you can get the issue resolved but make sure you have the correct model or model codes for each TV model you need them for.
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post #3 of 20 Old 09-18-2012, 12:05 PM
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I've never seen the abbreviation SBB, but when Pro:Idiom first came out, the LG website did depict a stand-alone box product though I have never heard of anyone using it and I didn't see it on their site when I looked for it later.

DirecTV has a system called DRE that is adaptable to hotel environments that includes using a tiny, H25 box in every room, and it has some capability to seamlessly integrate a limited amount of local or original content, like a custom channel guide and a barker channel. The best thing about the DRE system is that there is no future marginal hardware cost when one adds HDTV channels.
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post #4 of 20 Old 09-18-2012, 12:08 PM
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Are there many over the air stations in your area, that can be reliably picked up by an antenna (a GOOD antenna)?

If there are sufficient numbers of channels (the major networks, PBS channels, and a few sub-channels), you could find a service that supplies a couple of dozen "Cable" type channels (ESPN, HBO, etc) and combine them. You'd need to receive each OTA station's channel (which often contains an HDTV main channel and one or more sub-channels), and convert it to QAM modulation (ATSC is used for OTA, QAM is the method used on cable), and then combine those with the "Cable" style channels, which the service would provide.

By keeping everything QAM, most HDTV sets can tune all of the channels....they would all be non-scrambled, so things like pay-per-view in-room services would not be workable (unless you go with the Pro:IDIOM, or similar, systems).
But, you'd have a few dozen channels to offer to all of your guests, at no extra charge to them.

Any way you do it, you'll need to have a head-end system, with antennas, satellite dish, and processing gear.....expect to spend some serious money.
There are many more-expensive solutions, too.

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post #5 of 20 Old 09-18-2012, 12:09 PM
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I see that Mike is on line here. He's the real expert.smile.gif

Ken English, Sr. Engineer, KSL-TV.
"The postings on this site are my own and don't necessarily represent the Company positions, strategies or opinions."
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post #6 of 20 Old 09-19-2012, 09:55 AM
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An SBB is a SET BACK BOX, meaning anything from an pro idiom decoder box to a guest pay movie system terminal. In the case of a hotel having non pro idiom TV's you would use or have the option to use a SBB or if you want you can call it by it's model, Enseo- HD 4000, 3SD-400A, HS-500A, LG 4100A and so on. All of which are SBB or set back pro idiom decoders. I'm currently installing a guest pay movie system at a hotel having the exact same problem with 80 of the TV's. Will just leave it up to the expert and put a (STB) set top box next to the TV in plain view of the guest.
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post #7 of 20 Old 09-19-2012, 11:53 AM
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You have to get programming from one of the two DBS companies, and if you go with DirecTV, which most hotels favor, they will heavily subsidize their tiny H25 receivers. They are small enough to slip behind any wall mounted TV. In some markets, DISH is not a viable option for a hotel if they do not have the regional sports networks available. Then, there's Philadelphia...rolleyes.gif

On the other hand, if you use your own boxes, then you theoretically would be in a somewhat better negotiating position when your contract expires. How much are Cable Mafia's clients paying for their stand alone boxes?
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post #8 of 20 Old 09-20-2012, 10:47 AM
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I'm a contractor installing HD GP (guest pay) movies and HD FTG systems in large hotels and resorts so I don't really do any of the sales. When a hotel has a problem like this they most often just replace the TV's or have new ones ready to install as we put in the new systems. When we have an issue with needing set back boxes the ones for the movies range from $45-$70 each but are replaced good for bad part free of charge. In most cases the TV's are EBL and require just a cable from the wall to the set. The Enseo HD 3000 decoders we were told are around $246 each, so the hotel is deciding if it would be best to just replace the TV's since they are 3-4 yrs old.
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post #9 of 20 Old 09-20-2012, 10:48 AM
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I'm a contractor installing HD GP (guest pay) movies and HD FTG systems in large hotels and resorts so I don't really do any of the sales. When a hotel has a problem like this they most often just replace the TV's or have new ones ready to install as we put in the new systems. When we have an issue with needing set back boxes the ones for the movies range from $45-$70 each but are replaced good for bad part free of charge. In most cases the TV's are EBL and require just a cable from the wall to the set. The Enseo HD 3000 decoders we were told are around $246 each, so the hotel is deciding if it would be best to just replace the TV's since they are 3-4 yrs old.
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post #10 of 20 Old 09-20-2012, 12:28 PM
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I've regularly serviced RF TV signals in hotels for over 20 years, but at present, I only have about a dozen of those customers. Most had the foresight and fortuitous timing to make sure the TVs they bought were Pro: Idiom capable, and perhaps more importantly, since only one of them is franchised with a national chain that has an HDTV mandate, they have more freedom to postpone making the long term or expensive capital decisions that they don't want to make.

I see no legal reason why the security that cable companies use is not deemed adequate by the DBS providers. DirecTV permits the component outputs to be encoded as unencrypted MPEG 2 and modulated as 256 QAM for lots of classes of customer, but not for hotels or multiple dwelling units at present.

I still don't have the comprehensive, definitive word on what cable companies can and cannot do when they are distributing HBO and ESPN in hotels. There are two frequent posters here who work for franchised cable companies that insist that when their cable company furnishes HBO free-to-guest, they do it with pro idiom encrypted streams rather than with whatever their normal encryption is.

I'm told that DirecTV is tyrannical in its oversight of hotels that use the L-Band "DRE" system. They won't even allow a system operator to develop a proposal without them visiting the property first themselves. And they won't allow anything mixed into their distribution system, which is a bummer for my locale because Washington DC is just 35 miles from Baltimore and I'd love to be able to mix Baltimore off air HDTV with the DRE signals to get different football games on Sunday and even different MLB Game of the Week selections, since the Baltimore station favors American League games whereas the Washington station favors National league games, but as I understand it, they keep tight enough control over the Pro Idiom utilization to preclude me from doing that in the most practical ways. I could still do it without their blessing, but it would require that the guest be able to use his remote to switch input sources and that likely would cause too much confusion to be worth doing.
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post #11 of 20 Old 09-20-2012, 03:10 PM
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"I still don't have the comprehensive, definitive word on what cable companies can and cannot do when they are distributing HBO and ESPN in hotels. There are two frequent posters here who work for franchised cable companies that insist that when their cable company furnishes HBO free-to-guest, they do it with pro idiom encrypted streams rather than with whatever their normal encryption is."

That is correct we do those channels in question but you have never inquired to me how we are doing them....wink.gif

All Comments made are my own and not of my employer.
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post #12 of 20 Old 02-15-2013, 11:51 AM
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You are correct that with the DIRECTV DRE you do have to do a site survey prior to giving a bid. It has cut our complaints about pricing 80% by having bids be accurate upfront.

The DRE system has up to 50 "local" pages that can carry what ever you like from static pages to off air antenna programming. They are for the facility to decide what is shown.
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post #13 of 20 Old 02-16-2013, 02:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SMIRichard View Post

You are correct that with the DIRECTV DRE you do have to do a site survey prior to giving a bid. It has cut our complaints about pricing 80% by having bids be accurate upfront.

I have reservations about allowing DirecTV into the picture before I have a signed contract with the client hotel, namely, the concernthat they will attempt to "jump" me and deal more directly with the customer, as well as the concern that they will steer the customer in a direction that makes less money for me. I personaly never have any "accuracy" problems with bids because I run my company myself.
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The DRE system has up to 50 "local" pages that can carry what ever you like from static pages to off air antenna programming. They are for the facility to decide what is shown.

This is news to me. I have attended two DRE seminars and things change so fast I feel like I wasted $300 on each. Last I heard, DRE was going to allow three locally generated inputs to be integrated into their system, but that they contemplated them being standard definition, locally generated programming, like from a conference center. Are you saying one can now take a broadcast MPEG2 and integrate it into a DRE system? In Washington, DC, we have a lot of desirable subchannels that I like to integrate into hotel systems, like Meh=gaHertz channels 30.1-30.12, plus we have the four most popular 'rerun" channels (MeTV, ThisTV, AntennaTV, and Cozi-TV) that I don't think are included in DirecTV's digital locals here, making them a valuable addition to what I can deliver with exclusive DirecTV programming.
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post #14 of 20 Old 02-16-2013, 02:50 AM
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There is the DCI401 from technicolor that is able to decrypt Pro Idiom encrypted content that is a small box that you can mount to the back of the TVs smile.gif you just need to install some hardware from technicolor at the headend and it works with Directv! but the signals are converted to QAM and sent to the DCI401s and must have a 100% digital signal to use the DCI401 which support MPEG4 smile.gif

http://www.northamericancable.com/email/naceflyer.pdf
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post #15 of 20 Old 02-16-2013, 08:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevin120 View Post

There is the DCI401 from technicolor that is able to decrypt Pro Idiom encrypted content that is a small box that you can mount to the back of the TVs smile.gif you just need to install some hardware from technicolor at the headend and it works with Directv! but the signals are converted to QAM and sent to the DCI401s and must have a 100% digital signal to use the DCI401 which support MPEG4 smile.gif

http://www.northamericancable.com/email/naceflyer.pdf

The Technicolor box sells for half of what the Enseo box does, but for the 235 TV job I am just now wrapping up, that still comes to $30,000, and because they do not process analog, the modulation cost of the DirecTV standard definition channels wold be about three times the analog modulation cost.
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post #16 of 20 Old 08-06-2013, 11:10 AM
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There are several options:
DRE DirecTV provides the PRO:IDIOM at the Headend therefore no need for Pro:Idiom TVs.. This does require special cabling requirements. One other option is to simply use SD Digital although the SD Digital is not true High Definition it provides an excellent alternative and if you have HD LCD / LEDs 32" or 37" unless in a side by side comparison I would challenge anyone to see the difference. Feel free to call me as our Company provides all Hospitality Solutions from the TVs to the content, installation, WIFI and CCTV ....On Screen Technologies 866-211-3787 or Direct 949-226-9446.
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post #17 of 20 Old 12-26-2013, 10:52 AM
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We replaced with Pro:Idium TVs but before we did we had LodgeNet service boxes at each TV. For some reason they descrambled the signal. This required having them re flashed with a channel map but if you have that it could be a solution.

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post #18 of 20 Old 12-27-2013, 10:49 AM
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As a TV watcher, at a hotel, all I would care about is being able to watch Netflix, local TV with national news broadcasts, Weather channel, PBS and maybe some cartoon network TV channels.
Anything else is just wasteland TV.
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post #19 of 20 Old 01-10-2014, 10:27 AM
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 are you still in need of hd solution for your hotel

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post #20 of 20 Old 02-15-2014, 05:14 PM
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You probably found a solution but it you didnt here goes.  We provide Hospitality and Corporate IPTV system with VOD and DVR services using a DirecTV COM1000 for content.  An enterprise license is required from DirecTV for the number of subscribers, hotel room, desktop PC, smartphones, tablets etc viewing the content.  Our system requires that Pro:Idiom in disable as part of the license.  We use inexpensive set-top-boxes STBs such as the Amino H140.  See more info at http://vidovation.com/IPTV_info and http://vidovation.com/iptv-television-network-download-web or call one of our sales engineers at +1-949-777-5435 or sales@vidovation.com to learn more.  Thank you.

 

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VidOvation.com 

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