What's the next big thing for OTA TV? - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 54 Old 08-12-2012, 10:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by sneals2000 View Post

Yep but nobody is forced into paying a TV Licence fee - if you don't want to pay it, don't buy a TV.
Does that really fly? Or do retailers offer a selection of similarly-priced, big-screen, non-TV "monitors" that we don't see here in the US? I assume there's some mechanism for someone that wants to watch DVDs/BluRays on a 46" screen without paying TV license fees.
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post #32 of 54 Old 08-12-2012, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Cabal0 View Post

Does that really fly? Or do retailers offer a selection of similarly-priced, big-screen, non-TV "monitors" that we don't see here in the US. I assume there's some mechanism for someone that wants to watch DVDs/BluRays on a 46" screen without paying TV license fees.

Yes - you just don't have an antenna/aerial connected to your TV, or a cable connection, or a satellite connection. In reality very few people go down that route - but it's perfectly legal to own a TV to watch exclusively DVD / VCR content without paying the licence fee.

Also you don't need a TV licence to use your PC/Phone/Tablet to watch catch-up TV content - though you DO need a licence to watch live streamed broadcast content on your PC/Phone/Tablet. Some countries in Europe are introducing a TV licence fee for PCs as a result...

Looking at it another way - I don't have to pay for the BBC if I don't own a TV - as I don't have to pay a TV Licence. In the US you have to pay for NBC, CBS or ABC whether you watch their content or not, unless you don't purchase products from companies who advertise on TV - which may actually be trickier. Nothing in life is free...
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post #33 of 54 Old 08-12-2012, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by sneals2000 View Post

In the US you have to pay for NBC, CBS or ABC whether you watch their content or not, unless you don't purchase products from companies who advertise on TV - which may actually be trickier. Nothing in life is free...
That's not reality. You (in the UK) pay a fee for OTA. Do you not have commercials? Do they (advertisers) not pay the network to advertise?

Contrary to opinion, not everyone in the US buys everything they see advertised in commercials.
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post #34 of 54 Old 08-12-2012, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Ratman View Post

That's not reality. You (in the UK) pay a fee for OTA. Do you not have commercials? Do they (advertisers) not pay the network to advertise?
No commercials on the BBC - which we pay for via the licence-fee.

There are commercial OTA broadcasters - but they don't get funding via the licence-fee (apart from S4C from soon - but that is a hugely subsidised Welsh-language channel)
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Contrary to opinion, not everyone in the US buys everything they see advertised in commercials.

No - but how many people watching won't buy something that has been produced by an advertiser?

If I don't want to pay for the BBC I don't have to - I just don't buy a TV. Whether I own a TV or not I have to buy stuff - and thus pay for commercial TV.
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post #35 of 54 Old 08-12-2012, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sneals2000 View Post

No commercials on the BBC - which we pay for via the licence-fee.
Did not know that and that's great. Similar to PBS in the US. Only difference is that PBS is funded by contributors.
Quote:
There are commercial OTA broadcasters - but they don't get funding via the licence-fee (apart from S4C from soon - but that is a hugely subsidised Welsh-language channel)
But.... you still pay a license fee even if you chose not to watch BBC, correct?
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No - but how many people watching won't buy something that has been produced by an advertiser?
Again, unrealistic. No one forces you to purchase an advertised product. No different than subscribing to a magazine.
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If I don't want to pay for the BBC I don't have to - I just don't buy a TV. Whether I own a TV or not I have to buy stuff - and thus pay for commercial TV.
C'mon mate! Are you telling me that there are Brits that don't buy TV's because of advertising? Also.... can you get OTA sans BBC and waive the license fee?

What the UK does it great. Pay a fee for no commercials. YOU subsidize operation costs in lieu of commercials. But.... no one is forcing you to purchase an advertised product, just to "watch" if you choose to do so. Personally it's the perfect time time to visit the toilet and get a fresh/cold beer.
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post #36 of 54 Old 08-12-2012, 02:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratman View Post

Did not know that and that's great. Similar to PBS in the US. Only difference is that PBS is funded by contributors.
But.... you still pay a license fee even if you chose not to watch BBC, correct?
Again, unrealistic. No one forces you to purchase an advertised product. No different than subscribing to a magazine.
C'mon mate! Are you telling me that there are Brits that don't buy TV's because of advertising?
Not just a TV. If you have any TV receiving equipment (in the UK) that allows you to watch/record TV programmes as they are being shown on TV.
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Originally Posted by TV licensing 
TV receiving equipment, including:
a TV
a computer
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a digital box
a dvd/vhs recorder
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Originally Posted by Ratman 
Also.... can you get OTA sans BBC and waive the license fee?
No.

http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/about/foi-legal-framework-AB16/
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Originally Posted by TV licensing website 
This applies regardless of which television channels a person receives or how those channels are received
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post #37 of 54 Old 08-12-2012, 03:00 PM - Thread Starter
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I apologize for taking us down this path. wink.gif
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post #38 of 54 Old 08-12-2012, 03:16 PM
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So.... you subsidize with a mandantory fee to BBC for each OTA tuning device! I'll choose commercials and 100% free OTA. Purchasing advertised products is at one's discretion.
As I stated earlier, our PBS is supported by contributions only (for no commercials). But.... even if you personally don't donate, it's still broadcasted without fee.

Don't mean to sound as if I'm condemning broadcast practices in the UK. Just amazed. wink.gif
Was over there around 10 years ago for two weeks. Can't say there's any programming that tickled my fancy that I would pay a fee.
(Although.... I loved London. Stayed at the big hotel (The Heather?) next to the Tower Bridge.)
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post #39 of 54 Old 08-12-2012, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratman View Post

So.... you subsidize with a mandantory fee to BBC for each OTA tuning device!
Though that makes it sound like it's an additional fee for each OTA receiving device you own. You only pay 1 fee (currently £145.50 per year for colour TV) whether you own 1 colour TV or 100 colour TVs/TV receiving set top boxes/computers/dvd recorders/mobile phones/games consoles etc.
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post #40 of 54 Old 08-12-2012, 03:47 PM
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Wait a minute! You pay ~ $225 USD annually for OTA color TV reception? eek.gif
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post #41 of 54 Old 08-12-2012, 03:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratman View Post

Wait a minute! You pay ~ $225 USD annually for OTA color TV reception? eek.gif
Around that, yes frown.gif

I wonder if we could get something like 4K or 8K at about 120 fps sooner if there was an option for that on the UK TV license too - ie. by paying a tiny bit more.
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post #42 of 54 Old 08-12-2012, 04:36 PM
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Feel sorry you all! Seriously.
We get all OTA for free. I guess that makes our cable or satellite subscription fees look good.
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post #43 of 54 Old 08-12-2012, 04:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratman View Post

So.... you subsidize with a mandantory fee to BBC for each OTA tuning device!
No - one fee per household - covers all tuners.
Quote:
I'll choose commercials and 100% free OTA.
After 2 weeks in the US watching OTA and basic cable - I'm glad to be back with the BBC...
Quote:
Purchasing advertised products is at one's discretion.
As I stated earlier, our PBS is supported by contributions only (for no commercials). But.... even if you personally don't donate, it's still broadcasted without fee.
[/quote]
Yep - but what audiences does PBS get? The BBC over here run the most popular channel - not a slightly dull and worthy also ran with a poor budget. I've watched PBS - it's not exactly prime-time viewing is it?
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Don't mean to sound as if I'm condemning broadcast practices in the UK. Just amazed. wink.gif
Was over there around 10 years ago for two weeks. Can't say there's any programming that tickled my fancy that I would pay a fee.
No - but you're not a Brit!
Most of us quite like the BBC - the ratings kind of show that!

We're not alone in having a Licence Fee - lots of countries have them, the US doesn't. When was the last time you saw serious science, history, documentary shows that got decent audiences in prime time on NBC, CBS or ABC?

I'm not criticising the US model - it's just I don't think it's the only one - and I think the breadth, depth and quality of programming we get with ours is a good thing for us. The comparison between NBC and the BBC Olympics coverage kind of demonstrates this. The BBC is only there to serve its audience - who pay for it - and doesn't have to worry about advertisers.
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post #44 of 54 Old 08-12-2012, 05:00 PM
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And I'm not criticizing the UK/Euro model. But... I'd rather have commercials than pay ~$225 for OTA.
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post #45 of 54 Old 08-12-2012, 05:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratman View Post

And I'm not criticizing the UK/Euro model. But... I'd rather have commercials than pay ~$225 for OTA.

And believe me - after 40 years of no commercials - I'd rather pay not to have them! Was literally shouting at the TV trying to watch TV in the US - even PBS seemed to have sponsor messages.

We chose to run our broadcasting differently, we chose to run our countries differently. We are used to different things.
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post #46 of 54 Old 08-13-2012, 05:32 AM
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Originally Posted by sneals2000 View Post

We chose to run our broadcasting differently, we chose to run our countries differently. We are used to different things.

Completely understood and agree.
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post #47 of 54 Old 08-13-2012, 06:18 AM
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There's an interesting breakdown of how UK TV is paid for here (including actual cost to the consumer). It's relatively old (from 2003/04-era) but it is interesting none the less.

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post #48 of 54 Old 08-13-2012, 08:36 AM
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As a Brit now having lived and worked in US TV, I actually prefer the UK setup. Cable TV is much cheaper there too, around $30 per month not the $67 I had to pay here (not including the initial specials that companies promote for the first year). Also, the amount of commercials on the commercial stations are much less in the UK and I think restricted by law too. I can't quite remember, but I think they're only allowed to show an average of 7 mins of commercials per hour, with a maximum of 12 mins every now and then.

The 145 pounds per year per household (which I think includes your kids while at University) is much less than a US satellite or cable monthly charge, and the quality of programming is very good.

Here's a link to Wikipedia on this kind of thing around the world.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Television_advertisement#United_Kingdom
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post #49 of 54 Old 08-14-2012, 02:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BCF68 View Post

Why are you assuming that they are going OTA? As I said I'd all for OTA if the stations didn't make it so hard for people like me to get their stations in.

They are either going OTA, streaming, or DVD and Blu-ray. I know some young people that just stream everything.

Broadcast TV - a vital national public resource
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post #50 of 54 Old 08-14-2012, 02:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Jedi Master View Post

They are either going OTA, streaming, or DVD and Blu-ray. I know some young people that just stream everything.

Yep - iPad and Laptop streaming is incredibly popular amongst the 'younger generation' here as well - though for big live shows people still watch their main family big screen TVs fed via OTA, Cable or Satellite (though we have fee-free satellite here)
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post #51 of 54 Old 08-14-2012, 07:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Jedi Master View Post

They are either going OTA, streaming, or DVD and Blu-ray. I know some young people that just stream everything.
Nope (not in bulk, anyway). Those numbers are only the first half of the sentence. While cable companies lost 400K subscribers, Verizon FiOS and AT&T U-Verse picked up 275K.

https://secure.dslreports.com/shownews/120632

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/08/02/paytv-idUSL2E8J29MJ20120802

"Also the newer entrants to the TV market -- Verizon Communications' FiOS TV and AT&T Inc's U-verse -- added 275,000 customers during the quarter."
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post #52 of 54 Old 08-14-2012, 08:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Cabal0 View Post

Nope (not in bulk, anyway). Those numbers are only the first half of the sentence. While cable companies lost 400K subscribers, Verizon FiOS and AT&T U-Verse picked up 275K.
https://secure.dslreports.com/shownews/120632
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/08/02/paytv-idUSL2E8J29MJ20120802
"Also the newer entrants to the TV market -- Verizon Communications' FiOS TV and AT&T Inc's U-verse -- added 275,000 customers during the quarter."

Here are some new figures to chew on.

http://www.leichtmanresearch.com/press/081312release.html

I do believe that the poor economy in conjunction with the fact that pay-tv increases at a much faster rate than inflation is the main reason. Although there are people who are fed up with paying for hundreds of channels that they don't watch. I would rather pay $30 for 15 channels I do watch, then pay $60 for 15 channels I watch and 100 I don't.

Both of my sons (ages 20 and 17) watch far more online programming than they do with my Dish subscription or ota. And when they do watch ota/Dish it's rarely live, mostly dvr'd.
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post #53 of 54 Old 08-14-2012, 05:51 PM
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Both of my sons (ages 20 and 17) watch far more online programming than they do with my Dish subscription or ota. And when they do watch ota/Dish it's rarely live, mostly dvr'd.

My 22 year old son streams most of what he watches as well online. However, when he wants to watch PBS, Grimm, etc he watches it on the big screen OTA and the pq is just wonderful (and in 5.1 surround as well). Sometimes he'll connect his laptop (MBP) to the tv and watch his streams that way (or play an occasional game). We are fortunate enough to get excellent OTA reception (which isn't always the case for a lot of folks) with not that many sub-channels so the compression is kept to a minimum (unlike our neighbors cable). $8/month for Netflix and two sources for streaming other content (BD player and AppleTV2) so we're happy. I do wish reasonable a-la-carte cable/sat would happen because there are a few things I'd like to watch that we can't get otherwise but until then......
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post #54 of 54 Old 08-15-2012, 09:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

Search "ATSC 2.0" and information like this appears.

Wow, DRM and targeted advertising! Just what I have always wanted! where can I sign up?

As an OTA TV users, what I would really like would be:

  • more efficient codecs for better quality viewing
  • an available 23.97 framerate, since CE equipment has so many problems with getting the "repeat field flags" right.

    Very few locals enable the repeat field flag on their transmissions, and I"m assuming that it is due to buggy consumer equipment. A few years ago, our local ABC turned on RFF for network shows, and was flooded by complaints from Vizeo owners who could not watch Lost.

  • redundancy built into the audio track,

    Even if the video is glitchy due to poor reception, you could then at least follow the program. Eg. like analog was. I remember growing up in the 70s, watching Canadian stations from 70 miles away where I could see almost nothing, but the audio was clear enough to follow the program.




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