Run standard definition channels on LED TVs? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 35 Old 09-04-2012, 06:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Can I run channels in standard definition on an LED TV? I have a Samsung 6100 Smart TV but do not have HD. I do have basic cable. The non-HD channels display poorly. Thanks.
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post #2 of 35 Old 09-04-2012, 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by yorkmapper View Post

Can I run channels in standard definition on an LED TV? I have a Samsung 6100 Smart TV but do not have HD. I do have basic cable. The non-HD channels display poorly. Thanks.

You might explain more about what you mean by poorly. SD will not look as good on an HD set generally. Of course you can watch SD on an HD set, but that's not the point of having an HD set. My Samsung plasma (PN59D8000) does fairly well on SD the little I use it, but the LCD (LEDs are just a way of lighting an LCD set) Samsung I had briefly and the Vizio I've got don't do as well with SD content.

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post #3 of 35 Old 09-05-2012, 04:24 AM
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Size matters too. SD will look better on a smaller screen than a large one. It's watchable on any TV but you have to accept that it will be soft on a big screen.
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post #4 of 35 Old 09-05-2012, 06:38 AM
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Not to mention, many cable and satellite providers overly compress SD video, making it look even worse than it has to.

SD from the network feed can actually look pretty good, especially the downconversion from the HD signal. It just gets the snot beat out of it by the time it gets to the viewer.

Have you thought about using an antenna to get your locals over the air and possibly in HD? It's free and looks much better than the SD mud you're seeing now.


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post #5 of 35 Old 09-05-2012, 05:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the responses. The reception is un-watchable with static and snow.

Size matters: is there a setting to reduce the size of the screen to improve the reception?

SD from the network feed: this is very good on my old tv. Do you mean connecting an old fashion atenna to the Samsung? and unplugging the cable?

So there is no way to watch SD on the Samsung? Is there no setting to reduce the resolution to match the SD (obviously I know nothing about the technology).
thanks.
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post #6 of 35 Old 09-06-2012, 08:48 AM
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The reception is un-watchable with static and snow.

Sounds like a cable problem. What is your cable setup? How many splitters, etc.
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Size matters: is there a setting to reduce the size of the screen to improve the reception?

Well you can't physically reduce the size of your screen. You can try the zoom/wide button on your remote, but normally that just changes the aspect ratio, not an actual zoom level.
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SD from the network feed: this is very good on my old tv.

That's because CRT tv's don't have to digitally scale the image to fit the larger screen.
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Do you mean connecting an old fashion atenna to the Samsung? and unplugging the cable?

Well, that's not what the above poster was talking about. But yes, if you are near a large city, connect an antenna and do a channel scan. Depending on how far you are from the tv stations, you should be able to get all the network channels in HD OTA.
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Is there no setting to reduce the resolution to match the SD

No, the tv is always running at 1920x1080. When you watch SD cable (720x480), the tv has to scale the image, and "invent" all the pixels that are missing, thus making it look bad.
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So there is no way to watch SD on the Samsung?

Well yes, technically you CAN watch SD on a HDTV. However, like an above poster said, that's not what an HDTV was designed for. It's like running poor quality gas in a race car, it won't be able to do what it was designed for. You should spring the extra 10-15 bucks a month to get HD cable.
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post #7 of 35 Old 09-06-2012, 09:25 AM
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The OP is describing Anolog video SD digital will not have snow. OP you need to check with your provider and see if a digital similcast is available this would get you all digital with just the cost of converter box and also get you local HD at a minimum. Analog is always going to be grainy and is worse on larger sets
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post #8 of 35 Old 09-06-2012, 04:52 PM - Thread Starter
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OK! Now we're getting somewhere. So I can watch SD on a HD flat screen? I just need a converter box?
I'm not talking about an analog tv and converting DTV to analog. I have a HD TV but only have "basic cable" for reception, I do not buy full HD cable.
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post #9 of 35 Old 09-06-2012, 05:01 PM
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Yes you can watch SD on an HDTV. No, it will not look as good as HD. It would look better on a smaller screen. See if your TV has a setting for "1:1" - this would show it in a pretty extreme postage stamp, but there would be no added pixels, as well as show it in the "best" possible picture.

Yes - it sounds like you have a cable problem from the cable company somewhere between their tap and your TV..

You CAN put antennas on your owned and/or controlled property...

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post #10 of 35 Old 09-07-2012, 03:57 AM
 
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Originally Posted by yorkmapper View Post

So there is no way to watch SD on the Samsung? Is there no setting to reduce the resolution to match the SD (obviously I know nothing about the technology).thanks.

Most TV will allow you to reduce the image but remember you will have lots of black around the whole image., SD is 480 lines you're TV is 1080 lines so 55% of the image above and below the picture will be empty space. And you have black bars at the sides too.
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post #11 of 35 Old 09-07-2012, 10:34 AM
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So I can watch SD on a HD flat screen? I just need a converter box?

Yes. No. Yes you can absolutely watch SD. It obviously will look like crap though. No, you do not need a cable box to get sd, just plug the coax into your tv. You will likely get a few local HD QAM channels if you tv supports that.
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post #12 of 35 Old 09-08-2012, 06:57 AM
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Originally Posted by sitlet View Post

Yes you can absolutely watch SD. It obviously will look like crap though.
To me, that is overly pessimistic. When I got my HDTV, I had no HD sources except OTA; all cable reception was SD, much (most) of it analog. MANY channels were sharp and pleasant to watch ... many were not. I generally found that old movies were terrible, but even DVDs not through the 480p-1080x conversion were usually quite good. I believe it has lots to do with the "scaler" in the TV; mine is a (now "obsolete") Sony LCD rear projection 720p set.
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post #13 of 35 Old 09-08-2012, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by gbynum View Post

To me, that is overly pessimistic. . . . . mine is a (now "obsolete") Sony LCD rear projection 720p set.
It all depends. Projection & smaller LCD's & Plasma sets are more forgiving with SD material, especially once you move 10 or more feet away.. With a larger LCD like the OP has, SD will most certainly look like crap.
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post #14 of 35 Old 09-08-2012, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by gbynum View Post

To me, that is overly pessimistic. When I got my HDTV, I had no HD sources except OTA; all cable reception was SD, much (most) of it analog. MANY channels were sharp and pleasant to watch ... many were not. I generally found that old movies were terrible, but even DVDs not through the 480p-1080x conversion were usually quite good. I believe it has lots to do with the "scaler" in the TV; mine is a (now "obsolete") Sony LCD rear projection 720p set.
Compare DVD to SD via a cable provider is like comparing a bicycle to a compact car. While the compact car is no super sport, it's a heck of a lot closer than a bicycle.

The same goes for SD via cable (or satellite) verses DVD. In this case, a well mastered anamorphic DVD (likely made from an HD master) is a lot closer in quality to HD than an overly compressed SD signal that likely tops out at about 325 lines. If HD is the high grade steak from a fine restaurant, than DVD is the decent quality steak from the local Bar and Grill. SD via cable or satellite is usually hooves and snouts.

That garbage isn't going to be edible no matter what.


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post #15 of 35 Old 09-08-2012, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by yorkmapper View Post

OK! Now we're getting somewhere. So I can watch SD on a HD flat screen? I just need a converter box?

Please stop using the term SD when describing analog video. SD refers to Standard Definition digital video. Chances are that the video you are watching without a STB (other than Clear QAM HD programming) is NTSC (analog) video. Many cable systems "simulcast" these analog channels in a SD digital stream for reception by their STBs with digital only tuners. Usually, these digitally transmitted signals are cleaner than their analog counterparts. The analog channels pick up video noise and static on their way to you. Their digitally transmitted counterparts do not.
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Originally Posted by domino92024 View Post

Please stop using the term SD when describing analog video. SD refers to Standard Definition digital video. Chances are that the video you are watching without a STB (other than Clear QAM HD programming) is NTSC (analog) video. Many cable systems "simulcast" these analog channels in a SD digital stream for reception by their STBs with digital only tuners. Usually, these digitally transmitted signals are cleaner than their analog counterparts. The analog channels pick up video noise and static on their way to you. Their digitally transmitted counterparts do not.

analog is SD though.
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post #17 of 35 Old 09-08-2012, 10:28 PM
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Originally Posted by BCF68 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by domino92024 View Post

Please stop using the term SD when describing analog video. SD refers to Standard Definition digital video. Chances are that the video you are watching without a STB (other than Clear QAM HD programming) is NTSC (analog) video. Many cable systems "simulcast" these analog channels in a SD digital stream for reception by their STBs with digital only tuners. Usually, these digitally transmitted signals are cleaner than their analog counterparts. The analog channels pick up video noise and static on their way to you. Their digitally transmitted counterparts do not.

analog is SD though.

Sigh...

Analog is NTSC. SD is a digital tv term. His cable system has three types of video: analog NTSC, SD digital, and HD digital. Referring to both analog and digital signals as "SD" only causes confusion in threads like the OP started. When TV was all analog, nobody ever mentioned "SD." It was just NTSC analog.
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post #18 of 35 Old 09-09-2012, 06:50 AM
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Originally Posted by BCF68 View Post

analog is SD though.
..but, not all SD is analog, thus the confusion when people discuss SD. If you say "analog", we all know it's SD. If you say SD, it may be analog or digital, since both still exist.
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Originally Posted by domino92024 View Post

Sigh...
Analog is NTSC. SD is a digital tv term. His cable system has three types of video: analog NTSC, SD digital, and HD digital. Referring to both analog and digital signals as "SD" only causes confusion in threads like the OP started. When TV was all analog, nobody ever mentioned "SD." It was just NTSC analog.

eh, yeah....but....standard definition is still standard definition in an alaog form or a digital one. The difference is whether it's NTSC (analog) or ATSC (digital). SD vs HD refers only to resolution parameters, not the form of the signal. HD, given enough bandwith, can be sent in an analog form - it just needs a whole lot of frequency space, which is why digital was used. It fit into the same 6Mhz space as NTSC SD video.

We never spoke of SD before HD came along because there wasn't an option before. It's the same priciple that up until color TV came about, it was always just "TV". Once there was a difference, people referenced whether a program or their TV was color because, for a while, either was possible. Likewise, people almost always just say "TV" and it's usually assumed that, if available in HD, the reference is to HD, especially on an HD forum.

Analog Betacam is SD. Digital Betacam is SD. Some of those low power stations out there still using analog NTSC signals are SD, while those little subchannels stations are ATSC SD.

Granted, we usually only have to say analog to denote analog SD, because we never had an analog HD spec in this country. ATSC, on the other hand, ranges from SD all the way up to HD (and potentially beyond, if new compression schemes allow for greater efficiency in the 6Mhz system).


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post #19 of 35 Old 09-09-2012, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by NetworkTV View Post


Granted, we usually only have to say analog to denote analog SD, because we never had an analog HD spec in this country. ATSC, on the other hand, ranges from SD all the way up to HD (and potentially beyond, if new compression schemes allow for greater efficiency in the 6Mhz system).

So why use SD when describing NTSC channels? There is no HD 8mm either (poor analogy, I know) and we don't call it SD. I'll repeat: There was NO SD terminology used for NTSC. The SD/HD terminology came into use only when DIGITAL came along. So, let's stop calling NTSC analog video SD, OK?
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post #20 of 35 Old 09-09-2012, 01:02 PM
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How about SD= 420i/p which can be carried by either an NTSC or ATSC stream. HD= 720p or greater which can only be carried on an ATSC stream. So, analog video is 420i/p. Digital video is 720p or greater. Forget the transmission standard terminology.
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post #21 of 35 Old 09-09-2012, 02:42 PM
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Okay, I'll throw this out....
480p is/was referred to as ED (enhanced definition) and never provided via NTSC. tongue.gif
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post #22 of 35 Old 09-09-2012, 04:01 PM
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Okay, I'll throw this out....
480p is/was referred to as ED (enhanced definition) and never provided via NTSC. tongue.gif

Correct you are. biggrin.gif I thought about that after I posted but got involved in the football game. Oh well.
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post #23 of 35 Old 09-10-2012, 01:39 AM
 
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Originally Posted by domino92024 View Post

Sigh...
Analog is NTSC. SD is a digital tv term. His cable system has three types of video: analog NTSC, SD digital, and HD digital. Referring to both analog and digital signals as "SD" only causes confusion in threads like the OP started. When TV was all analog, nobody ever mentioned "SD." It was just NTSC analog.

quit sighing me like you're some genius and everyone else is stupid. I know what stuff is. The fact is ALL analog is SD. And why don't you actually READ the question that is asked. Here I'll post it even though it the title of the thread.

Run standard definition channels on LED TVs?

The answer is YES. It does not matter if the SD is "analog" or digital, either one can be seen on a LED or any HDTV for that matter.
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post #24 of 35 Old 09-10-2012, 07:56 AM
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The fact is ALL analog is SD

Component carrying 720P is analog HD.
Your 'fact' is incorrect.
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post #25 of 35 Old 09-10-2012, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by BCF68 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by domino92024 View Post

Sigh...
Analog is NTSC. SD is a digital tv term. His cable system has three types of video: analog NTSC, SD digital, and HD digital. Referring to both analog and digital signals as "SD" only causes confusion in threads like the OP started. When TV was all analog, nobody ever mentioned "SD." It was just NTSC analog.

quit sighing me like you're some genius and everyone else is stupid. I know what stuff is. The fact is ALL analog is SD. And why don't you actually READ the question that is asked. Here I'll post it even though it the title of the thread.

Run standard definition channels on LED TVs?

The answer is YES. It does not matter if the SD is "analog" or digital, either one can be seen on a LED or any HDTV for that matter.

Sigh...

We were obviously discussing the merits of calling NTSC analog channels SD, the same as SD digital channels.
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post #26 of 35 Old 09-10-2012, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by SAM64 View Post

Quote:
The fact is ALL analog is SD

Component carrying 720P is analog HD.
Your 'fact' is incorrect.

The discussion is/was about modulated NTSC cable channels, not unmodulated HD video. But you knew that.
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post #27 of 35 Old 09-10-2012, 11:48 AM
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Your statement of 'fact' is still incorrect.
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Originally Posted by domino92024 View Post

Sigh...
We were obviously discussing the merits of calling NTSC analog channels SD, the same as SD digital channels.

Well then you were talking OFF TOPIC because that Is not what the thread is about. SIGH! Seems like it might be time up update the old ignore list.
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post #29 of 35 Old 09-10-2012, 09:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BCF68 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by domino92024 View Post

Sigh...
We were obviously discussing the merits of calling NTSC analog channels SD, the same as SD digital channels.

Well then you were talking OFF TOPIC because that Is not what the thread is about. SIGH! Seems like it might be time up update the old ignore list.

Not really. He was complaining about the poor "SD" quality he was receiving, and wondered whether or not a STB would help him. I explained that if he meant analog channels, then a STB might get the simulcast SD digital channels, and that they would be an improvement to the analog channels. It was in this post (my first in this thread) that I urged against thinking that analog and SD digital channels are the same. They're not, but referring to them all simply as "SD channels" makes them appear equal. Please refer to my first post in this thread - #15.
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post #30 of 35 Old 09-16-2012, 06:23 AM
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What's a "LED TV"?

Abundant OTA television is what makes this country different from all others. Lets keep it this way.
The Internet is no place for streaming video.
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