Cisco DTA170; is this more than just a "tuning adapter"?? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 69 Old 09-13-2012, 04:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Anyone know exactly what a Cisco DTA170 is? Is it more than just a modem like "digital tuning adapter" for a TV or DVR with a CC slot to allow SDV channels to become active in your node?? There is nothing on Cisco's site at all.

TWC is deploying these in my market next month and it surely looks like they are going to dump analog, something I didn't think would happen in this market due to economics of the area, unlike most other markets.

This is what TWC states;
http://www.timewarnercable.com/northeast/support/topic.ashx/Digital+Adapters
Quote:
Starting on or about October 10th, designated channels will be delivered in digital format only. This will not affect any TVs you currently have connected to a digital set-top box. If you want to view these channels on additional direct-connect analog TVs and similar devices, you may request a Digital Adapter free of charge through the end of 2014. After that time, each adapter will cost 99 cents a month.
The following seems to tell me they are dumping analog, though they don't come right out and say so.;
Quote:
If you plug your cable line directly into a TV, then that TV needs a Digital Adapter.

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post #2 of 69 Old 09-13-2012, 04:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Their literature states this;
Quote:
An Adapter simply converts a digital signal into a format your Tv can use.
Quote:
You will not be able to program your VCR/DVD player to record different channels at different times when your TV is connected to a Digital Adapter. To record different programs at different times, you will have to change the channel on your Digital Adapter.
Quote:
Question:
What if I don't do anything?
Answer:
Any TV connected directly to Time Warner Cable service without a set-top box will eventually lose picture on channels that are being delivered in digital format only.
IOW's your are f***ed!

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post #3 of 69 Old 09-13-2012, 04:31 AM
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That box is Cisco's HD-DTA which is an extremely basic HD box with just RF and HDMI (No EPG, 1 way communications, no CableCARD). It is one of the first HD-DTA's to hit the market as the current one's are Standard def. TWC is in favor of HD-DTA's, but their first DTA rollouts used SD DTA's. Now HD-DTA's are finally available. They do allow TWC to get rid of those bandwidth guzzling analog channels and allow them to use it for other services.
 

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post #4 of 69 Old 09-13-2012, 04:37 AM
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Also, these boxes are exempt from the separable security mandate, as the FCC granted these devices waivers when they reformed the CableCARD rules for self install. That was probably one of the conditions the Cableco's had when they were to reform the CableCARD rules. TWC wants to get rid of analog within the next 3 to 5 years, and they have already converted Barstow, CA and a division in Maine to all digital.

 

You can use a DTA with a VCR/DVD recorder/Analog capture device. It does require some creativity, but the Comcast users who use DTA's use them just fine with Tivo's and VCR. It does require manual programming, but they work fine.

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post #5 of 69 Old 09-13-2012, 04:55 AM - Thread Starter
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After reading through all their contradicting FAQ's, I see that this isn't just a SDV modem to use with a CC TV or DVR to allow SDV channels to become active in your node. Judging by it's size (or lack of), it didn't look like there could be a CC slot.

Questions;

This is just a tuner with built in security, correct?,
Is the "RF" out analog or digital?? confused.gif

Any links for more details on these, since Cisco has nothing?

.

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post #6 of 69 Old 09-13-2012, 05:00 AM
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DTA's are an one way device, meaning they cannot receive SDV channels. They can get encryption, but it is integrated into the unit. TWC wants to encrypt the expanded basic tier, and I believe that is what they are doing in Maine, so they can get people to get a DTA.

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post #7 of 69 Old 09-13-2012, 05:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
You can use a DTA with a VCR/DVD recorder/Analog capture device. It does require some creativity, but the Comcast users who use DTA's use them just fine with Tivo's and VCR. It does require manual programming, but they work fine.
Then it's back to VCR recording style circa 1978? One channel at a time?

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post #8 of 69 Old 09-13-2012, 06:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by videobruce View Post

Then it's back to VCR recording style circa 1978? One channel at a time?
Unless you get creative. I have cable + outside antenna. I feed OTA converters (CECB) into a line input, a DTA into channel 3 coax "combined" with a set-top-box modulated to channel 90. I still have to preset the tuners but the recorder then has an option of three selections for recording. My system is actually a lot more complicated than that with multiple tuners in a PC, multiple recording devices, etc; but you get the idea.

BTW, the "RF" output will be analog ch 3/4.

...and it sounds like they intend to encrypt the basic channels or they would have mentioned that a TV with a digital (QAM) tuner could still receive basic programming without a box.

Sturgeon's Law: "Nothing is always absolutely so."
Sturgeons Revelation: "Ninety percent of everything is crud."
My Thoughts: "A reasoned argument must share some basic common points."
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post #9 of 69 Old 09-13-2012, 07:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Unless you get creative.
and stand on your head.
Quote:
the "RF" output will be analog ch 3/4
A step backwards. Still only one channel can be recorded unless there is a way to get their "adapter" to re-tune channels.

Other question is, will the OTA remain "in the clear"?

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post #10 of 69 Old 09-13-2012, 08:09 AM - Thread Starter
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According to the TWC CSR I spoke to;

In the WNY "divisions" (Buffalo & Rochester), this will be in stages. Only three analog channels will be affected. CMT being the only one that anyone would care about. (C-Span & some holy roller channel being the others)
There is no limit to the number of "DTA's" you can have.
The "rental fee" will not go into effect until 2015.
By 2015 all analog will go away.
Both outputs are not active at the same time.
Apparently, as contracts expire and get renewed, additional analog channels will get dropped.

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post #11 of 69 Old 09-13-2012, 08:09 AM
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Your cableco is going 100% digital. You won't be able to change that fact.
Get the HD capable DTA for your TV, get a non-HD capable DTA (which may be free) for your recording needs.
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post #12 of 69 Old 09-13-2012, 08:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Your cableco is going 100% digital. You won't be able to change that fact.
That's not the problem or issue, it's their damn SDV (making CC equipped devices mostly unusable) & encrypting existing basic tier services which were not.

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post #13 of 69 Old 09-13-2012, 08:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by videobruce View Post

.... to allow SDV channels to become active in your node . . .

To me, the "active on your node" part is a little bit deceiving. I have 3 TiVo's with Motorola CableCards, and I have the Motorola Tuning Adapters. Due to circumstances beyond my control, I don't always have ALL of the Tuning Adapters hooked up 24/7. However, I would have thought that if ONE Tuning Adapter was hooked up and the associated TiVo tuned to a given channel, that I could tune that same given channel on an adjacent TiVo (with CableCard but no Tuning Adapter) since "the channel was active on my node". But in practice this is not the case. No Tuning Adapter, no Channel.... regardless if another Tuning Adapter has made that channel available to another device in my household. Hope I made sense here . . .

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post #14 of 69 Old 09-13-2012, 09:11 AM - Thread Starter
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To me, the "active on your node" part is a little bit deceiving.
Ok, how about "available"?
Quote:
I would have thought that if ONE Tuning Adapter was hooked up and the associated TiVo tuned to a given channel, that I could tune that same given channel on an adjacent TiVo (with CableCard but no Tuning Adapter) since "the channel was active on my node".
I would also like to think that, but I would then guess, it is available, but since it wasn't requested from that device (w/ a CC), it is ignored, or blocked.
Interesting that it isn't available.

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post #15 of 69 Old 09-13-2012, 03:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by videobruce View Post

After reading through all their contradicting FAQ's, I see that this isn't just a SDV modem to use with a CC TV or DVR to allow SDV channels to become active in your node. Judging by it's size (or lack of), it didn't look like there could be a CC slot.

Questions;

This is just a tuner with built in security, correct?,
Is the "RF" out analog or digital?? confused.gif

Any links for more details on these, since Cisco has nothing?

.

Cisco has nothing?

http://www.cisco.com/en/US/prod/collateral/video/ps8611/ps8612/ps10771/7023333_a.pdf
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post #16 of 69 Old 09-13-2012, 03:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by videobruce View Post

According to the TWC CSR I spoke to;
In the WNY "divisions" (Buffalo & Rochester), this will be in stages. Only three analog channels will be affected. CMT being the only one that anyone would care about. (C-Span & some holy roller channel being the others)
There is no limit to the number of "DTA's" you can have.
The "rental fee" will not go into effect until 2015.
By 2015 all analog will go away.
Both outputs are not active at the same time.
Apparently, as contracts expire and get renewed, additional analog channels will get dropped.

Haha no there is more than just three analogs affected in Buffalo/Rochester:

On or about October 17 Digital equipment will be needed to continue viewing: WNY Suburban CSPAN Ch 96, EWTN Ch 10, CFTO Ch 15, E! Ch 54 and CNBC Ch 33. City of Buffalo CFTO Ch 12, EWTN Ch 24, E! Ch 64 and CNBC Ch 52. Dunkirk CSPAN Ch 22, CFTO Ch 10, CNN International Ch 8, CSPAN3 Ch 14, EWTN Ch 33, E! Ch 37, OWN Ch 35 and CNBC Ch 53. Westfield CSPAN Ch 17, CFTO Ch 12, WXPJ ION Ch 18, EWTN Ch 48, E! Ch 54 and CNBC Ch 33. Olean/Olean North/Wellsville/Ulysses CSPAN Ch 18, CFTO Ch 20, Discovery Fit and Health Ch 56, EWTN Ch 35, E! Ch 63 and CNBC Ch 30. These channels will remain in their existing packages, and they will continue to be available in a digital format that can be viewed using digital cable equipment, such as a digital cable set-top box or a CableCARD-equipped Unidirectional Digital Cable Product (“UDCP”).

On or about October 17 the following channel will move location and Digital equipment will be needed to continue viewing: City of Buffalo CSPAN from Ch 25 to Ch 71. CSPAN will remain in the existing package, and will continue to be available in a digital format that can be viewed using digital cable equipment, such as a digital cable set-top box or a CableCARD-equipped Unidirectional Digital Cable Product (“UDCP”).

Starting on or about October 10, 2012, digital equipment will be needed to continue viewing: Rochester Central CMT Ch 62, CSPAN Ch 44, EWTN Ch 43, Golf Channel Ch 66. Wayne/Ontario, Steuben/Schuyler, Yates/Ontario, Seneca/Cayuga CMT Ch 36, CSPAN Ch 44, EWTN Ch 43, Golf Channel Ch 69, Lifetime Movie Network Ch 66. Genesee/Wyoming, Orleans/Niagara, Monroe/Livingston, Erie CMT Ch 56, CSPAN Ch 66, EWTN Ch 41, Golf Channel Ch 69, Lifetime Movie Network Ch 31.
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post #17 of 69 Old 09-14-2012, 07:50 AM - Thread Starter
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domino92024;
Thanks. I did a search using "DTA170" and nothing came up. (I can't account for their typical lame search engine.) Strange name: " Digital Transport Adapter" confused.gif What was wrong with "tuner"?
Kinda small for a tuner. Looks more like a CECB. wink.gif
Quote:
Haha no there is more than just three analogs affected in Buffalo/Rochester:
For now, wait until the next cut. wink.gif

Ok, four instead of three in Buffalo and the suburbs. I never got any letter. She didn't mention E!, CFTO or CNBC being included. I see CMT isn't in the list. Sounds as she got here services mixed up (no surprise).

.

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post #18 of 69 Old 09-14-2012, 08:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by videobruce View Post

domino92024;
Thanks. I did a search using "DAT170" and nothing came up. (I can't account for their typical lame search engine.).

Did you try DTA 170? I guess the lame search engine doesn't correct typos. wink.gif
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post #19 of 69 Old 09-14-2012, 08:23 AM - Thread Starter
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The typo was in the post, not the search.

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post #20 of 69 Old 09-14-2012, 08:32 AM
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Just goimg by your last post. Anyway.... I see you now know that "DTA" is "Digital Transport Adapter" (after your edit). That works on cisco.com search.
Actually.... using Google, "cisco dta 170" is the first hit. smile.gif
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post #21 of 69 Old 09-14-2012, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratman View Post

Just goimg by your last post. Anyway.... I see you now know that "DTA" is "Digital Transport Adapter" (after your edit). That works on cisco.com search.
Actually.... using Google, "cisco dta 170" is the first hit. smile.gif

Ha Ha. Just wait about a week.. then try searching HERE with the Huddler AVS search engine! rolleyes.gif

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post #22 of 69 Old 09-14-2012, 11:16 PM
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Cant comment on twc as i dont live in a service area, but i am a comcast tech. We did the same thing with most if not all of our network, not sure about hd dtas, but we require sd dtas for any level of programming at all to be received. However, when all this was first rolling out I got a few jobs to install cablecards in tivos. Assuming TWC is at least similiar, the way our system worked is if you traded your main cable box (or dvt) back in, the cable card was free, additional cards for additional tivos wer 1.99/mo. Once paired to the tivo, the cc itself does all the decoding, the tivo unit is capable of showing all B1,B2,D0, and D1 programming, without the need of a dta. Now where it got very confusing and what comcast didnt officially support, was ppl with series2 tivos (ones that dont have a cc slot at all). These boxes had analog tuners not digital. However i have seen this done in person, but failed to set it up for a different customer myself later on. What i saw done was the cm ran the cable feed into a dta, then tv out to the ant in on the tivo, then frm tv to the tv frm the tivo obviously. Somewhere burried in the setup settings of series 2 boxes is a setting that tells the tivo your signal comes from a converter on ch3. There was then some type of an ir eye plugged into the tivo and taped to the front of the dta. The tivo then changed channels through the dtas, the guide data was downloaded off the internet not over the cable network. Good luck all, sorry i couldnt be more help
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post #23 of 69 Old 09-15-2012, 07:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by videobruce View Post

domino92024;
Thanks. I did a search using "DTA170" and nothing came up. (I can't account for their typical lame search engine.) Strange name: " Digital Transport Adapter" confused.gif What was wrong with "tuner"?
Kinda small for a tuner. Looks more like a CECB. wink.gif
For now, wait until the next cut. wink.gif
Ok, four instead of three in Buffalo and the suburbs. I never got any letter. She didn't mention E!, CFTO or CNBC being included. I see CMT isn't in the list. Sounds as she got here services mixed up (no surprise).
.

TWC is not cutting only 3 analogs whatever is listed as to be cut on October 17th will be cut!

TWC is getting ready to deploy more QAM slots for SDV and at the same time taking some of the SDV digital simulcasts off of SDV to allow for DTA's to work.

Look at that system that is moving:

CSPAN3
CNN International

to digital only they are reclaiming 8 QAM slots total!
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post #24 of 69 Old 09-15-2012, 11:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Back to my original question; is this just a scaled down "tuner"? Much smaller with no or little menu and only two outputs?

Abundant OTA television is what makes this country different from all others. Lets keep it this way.
The Internet is no place for streaming video.
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post #25 of 69 Old 09-15-2012, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by videobruce View Post

Back to my original question; is this just a scaled down "tuner"? Much smaller with no or little menu and only two outputs?

This is just a very cheap Clear QAM tuner, nothing more and nothing less.

All Comments made are my own and not of my employer.
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post #26 of 69 Old 09-15-2012, 12:56 PM
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Info re DTA170HD from Cisco website. It's not much different from any other HD Cable Box with the same
RSA based PowerKey security and MINIMALIST on-screen menu for channel selection. Deployment will
allow most/all Analog channels (under about Ch70) to be converted over to more SD/HD Video Channels,
more SDV & VOD channels (incl MPEG4 IPTV) and allow the new 3-wide DOCSIS-3.0 "Channel Bonded"
channels to be added for higher speed Internet offerings [requires upgrade to a DOCSIS-3.0 Cable Modem]:
http://www.cisco.com/en/US/prod/collateral/video/ps8611/ps8612/ps10771/7023333_a.pdf [Data Sheet]
http://www.cisco.com/en/US/docs/video/at_home/Set-Tops/DTA/4040685_C.pdf [Connection Sheet]
http://www.cisco.com/en/US/docs/video/at_home/Set-Tops/DTA/4043356_A.pdf [User Guide]

BTW: All "Analog" channels are ALREADY carried on the Digital Tier...HD OTA channels are down-converted
to Low-Rez SD and packaged onto QAM-256 carriers....typically 13 SD's per 6 MHz channel on our system.
And they are ENCRYPTED, so you can't see them using a Clear QAM tuner....hence the need for DTA170HD.
This is to prevent a neighbor from stealing what was formerly available in the Clear as an "Analog" signal.....

PS: Since there are no more OTA Analog broadcasts, the "Analog" channels are also down-converted from
the HD OTA signals....or from either an HD or SD digital signal received via C-Band satellite.

PPS: If your system is going ALL-DIGITAL, then ALL Analog channels go away....however, some systems
may retain about 20 or so "Analog" channels that will be viewable using JUST an Analog TV set.....for awhile....
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post #27 of 69 Old 09-15-2012, 01:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ybsane View Post

This is just a very cheap Clear QAM tuner, nothing more and nothing less.
Eh.... are your sure it's "clear QAM" only? I'd check into that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by videobruce View Post

Back to my original question; is this just a scaled down "tuner"? Much smaller with no or little menu and only two outputs?
It's a barebones QAM tuner with an HDMI output for HD. No channel guides, no VOD, no PPV,etc.
Just think of it as the "Yugo" of STB's. IMO.... for the rental fee, it shoudn't be a bad option conpared to $12-15 dollars for a traditional HD STB.
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post #28 of 69 Old 09-15-2012, 03:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratman View Post

Eh.... are your sure it's "clear QAM" only? I'd check into that.
It's a barebones QAM tuner with an HDMI output for HD. No channel guides, no VOD, no PPV,etc.
Just think of it as the "Yugo" of STB's. IMO.... for the rental fee, it shoudn't be a bad option conpared to $12-15 dollars for a traditional HD STB.

Just meant that it is cheap, it has Power key Security which can be tied into billing and give you encryption, but for the most part you are right about being the Yugo of STB's.

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post #29 of 69 Old 09-15-2012, 03:47 PM
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But.... it's not "clear QAM" only. Just trying to help with accuracy for the OP. biggrin.gif
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post #30 of 69 Old 09-15-2012, 03:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratman View Post

But.... it's not "clear QAM" only. Just trying to help with accuracy for the OP. biggrin.gif

NP, when they first power up or go to de-fault( looses billing Key info) the only thing they pick up is Clear QAM streams, just so everyone knows.

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