Can Antenna TV Come To An End? - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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Old 05-05-2013, 05:40 PM
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From what I can see about Satellite companies (both Direct and Dish) - they are receiving the local channels via OTA just like we can, then they do more compression / reencoding and ship it off to the "local" uplink center. So - if the local broadcasters quit "broadcasting" - you're going to see the DBS companies either paying for the fiber lines or using the local cable company's feed to provide their "locals".

The networks could certainly start their own cable channels and show what is currently sent OTA by the local stations, but right now it apparently makes more money for them to use the broadcasters.

You CAN put antennas on your owned and/or controlled property...
http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html

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Old 05-05-2013, 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Richard Burger View Post


I've read arguments that OTA customers are less affluent and therefore less desirable for advertising. And maybe the bandwidth could be used more profitably for other purposes. But the political momentum behind OTA is too strong for the gov to let it die.

I don't buy the less affluent argument. There are quite a few antennas up in our area and it is decidedly an affluent and upper middle class neighborhood. In fact, in the more economically depressed neighborhoods there aren't any antennas to be seen (at least on the roofs) but lots of satellite antennas.
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Old 05-06-2013, 07:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Cabal0 View Post

More likely, they'll cut back on free coffee in the break rooms and downgrade to single-ply.

They can't cut back on the coffee, because that's the only thing that keeps people going, on their third 8-hour shift of the day (unpaid, of course).
They already changed locks on the TP closet. biggrin.gif

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Old 05-09-2013, 05:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooper View Post

From what I can see about Satellite companies (both Direct and Dish) - they are receiving the local channels via OTA just like we can, then they do more compression / reencoding and ship it off to the "local" uplink center. So - if the local broadcasters quit "broadcasting" - you're going to see the DBS companies either paying for the fiber lines or using the local cable company's feed to provide their "locals".

The networks could certainly start their own cable channels and show what is currently sent OTA by the local stations, but right now it apparently makes more money for them to use the broadcasters.

The bigger markets are already fiber connected. That's why in some markets, DirecTV looks better than OTA, as they are getting a high bitrate feed, and doing really good MPEG-4 encoding on it, without the bandwidth-constrained MPEG-2 step in there. In some markets they are picking it up OTA.
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Old 05-15-2013, 10:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Embattled Internet television streaming service Aereo has an unlikely friend in Congress: Sen. John McCain.

McCain introduced a bill last week offering a carrot-and-stick approach to stop television distributors from bundling unpopular channels with those in high demand. While McCain's bill has been getting plenty of attention, flying under the radar has been what might be dubbed his "Aereo provision."

That's where McCain's Aereo provision fits in. The Fox broadcast network operates on a license granted by the government. In exchange, Fox and other networks are expected to provide local news, weather and emergency alerts to consumers. McCain's bill is essentially a response to Carey's threat: stop providing your public service, and you'll lose your license to air your content on the broadcast airwaves.

"Senator McCain believes strongly that if broadcasters, who pay nothing for spectrum in exchange for public interest obligations, deviate from their statutory responsibilities, then the public deserves to have that spectrum auctioned with proceeds going to the federal treasury," wrote McCain's Communications Director Brian Rogers in an email to Mashable.

Aereo CEO Chet Kanojia agreed Fox would be violating its agreement if it were to go subscription-only.

"The broadcasters got free spectrum to broadcast in the public interest in communities, they built up entire businesses based on that free band," Kanojia told Mashable.

"And to abandon 50 million-plus people just seems like they're breaking a deal."

http://mashable.com/2013/05/14/aereo-john-mccain/
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Old 05-18-2013, 07:49 AM
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Broadcasters are not "obligated" to do anything except carry "some sort of programming", do an ID at the top of each hour, run an EAS Test each week, and forward a monthly test test each month, plus do a whole lot of paperwork.
Yes, we DO pay a lot for our spectrum, including User Fees and other stuff that adds up to many thousands of dollars a month.

If McCain thinks we are under any obligation to provide "American Idol" or "Glee", he's wrong.
If he thinks Fox NETWORK, which is not an FCC licensee, is obligated to provide anything for free, he's wrong again.

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Old 05-18-2013, 09:35 AM
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With the FCC's incentive auction and repack moving forward, many LPTV broadcasters worry about what the agency's continuing silence about their service portends Says attorney Peter Tannenwald: The FCC "is basically ignoring low-power TV, and therefore, no low-power TV station, right now, knows whether it’s going to be able to survive."

http://www.tvnewscheck.com/article/67562/lowpowers-have-high-anxiety-over-repack?utm_source=&utm_medium=Email&utm_term=Low-Powers+Have+High+Anxiety+Over+Repack&utm_campaign=Low-Powers+Have+High+Anxiety+Over+Repack

I don't guess the FCC or Congress would be interested in any ideas from an engineer, since I'm sure they've already made up their minds. rolleyes.gif

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Old 05-18-2013, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenglish View Post

If McCain thinks … Fox NETWORK, which is not an FCC licensee, is obligated to provide anything for free, he's wrong again.
Except that Fox Network is also a broadcaster, as it owns some stations, including two in the market where I live.
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Old 05-18-2013, 10:49 AM
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I can see why LPTVs are so worried. USA Today ran an interview with Julius Genachowski yesterday to mark his final day as chairman of the FCC. Here is what he had to say in an answer to one of the two questions asked regarding the incentive auction.

Quote:
Q: How likely is it that TV broadcasters that currently have the spectrum will give that up?

A: To understand this, the easiest way is to look at a single market. New York is a market where we need more spectrum, because it’s very congested. Many people are surprised to learn the number of over-the-air broadcasters licensed to operate in New York is 28. Very few people in New York can identify eight stations.

The incentive auction creates incentives for broadcasters to sell back their spectrum when their market options aren’t so good. In a market like New York, there is certainly room for a number of over-the-air broadcasters to succeed economically, but no one thinks there’s room for 28.

What that incentive auction will do is winnow down the number of broadcasters in markets like New York on a voluntary basis.

The important thing about this, when the spectrum comes back, what the FCC will do is shrink down the overall spectrum allotted to broadcasting. Then what we can make available to the public is continuous spectrum, coast to coast, that will fit right in to our current architecture ... underneath the 700-MHz spectrum that’s being used to launch 4G.

USA20130517_17.pdf 294k .pdf file
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Old 05-18-2013, 12:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dattier View Post

Except that Fox Network is also a broadcaster, as it owns some stations, including two in the market where I live.

Fox Television Network is a subsidiary of whatever huge "Fox" conglomerate owns it, and many different TV stations. The stations all have different ownership.
For instance, I just looked at the ownership report for one of Fox's TV stations, and it shows the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia as a stockholder.

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Old 05-18-2013, 02:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenglish View Post

I just looked at the ownership report for one of Fox's TV stations, and it shows the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia as a stockholder.

Does John McCain know this????? Call in the IRS...or not...

Oh what a tangled Web we weave when first we practice to receive (Shakespeare methinks).
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Old 05-18-2013, 04:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenglish View Post

Fox Television Network is a subsidiary of whatever huge "Fox" conglomerate owns it, and many different TV stations. The stations all have different ownership.
For instance, I just looked at the ownership report for one of Fox's TV stations, and it shows the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia as a stockholder.

I have to burst your bubble...

In Chicago, WFLD & WPWR are FOX TELEVISION STATIONS, INC. O&Os.

http://licensing.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/pubacc/prod/sta_det.pl?Facility_id=22211

http://licensing.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/pubacc/prod/sta_det.pl?Facility_id=48772
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Old 05-18-2013, 05:16 PM
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In 2000 or 2001, KTVX was owned by Fox, as was KSTU until 2007. KSL is the only major station that has never been owned by one of the major networks.

CIAO!

Ed N.
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Old 05-19-2013, 08:14 AM
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FOX Broadcasting Company:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fox_Broadcasting_Company

FOX Television Stations:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fox_Television_Stations

I guess that Fox could always just refuse to air it's programming on it's affiliates OTA channels.

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Old 05-19-2013, 11:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenglish View Post

I guess that Fox could always just refuse to air it's programming on it's affiliates OTA channels.

I suspect that more and more premium programming, currently freely viewed on the major networks, will migrate towards a paid subscription model. For example, in the past most of the college football bowl games were carried by the OTA networks. Now the majority of them have been locked up by ESPN available only through higher tier (not basic) subscription cable packages. ESPN last week purchased the rights to show the US Open Tennis finals for the next decade (which had been a Labor Day tradition on CBS). Expect the Kentucky Derby and the Indy 500 to follow suite in the next few years.

Perhaps FOX (and the others) will move towards a two tiered distribution model rather than abandoning OTA altogether. Free OTA programming for secondary programs and a subscription model for premier shows (especially real-time events that lose their significance if recorded). OTA will become the poor man's entertainment hub with lesser programming as entertainment becomes an economic class based structure (and frankly what isn't going in that direction in the US, e.g. education)...

One has an example of this duality already on Amazon. A yearly subscription to Amazon Video will get you past seasons of a series "for free" but the current season is a pay per episode affair at twice the cost.
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Old 05-19-2013, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by bwam View Post

I suspect that more and more premium programming, currently freely viewed on the major networks, will migrate towards a paid subscription model.

That may be true but I think Prime Time Evening is a long ways away from being abandon. Sports is an entirely different matter, mostly due to cost. Cable etc can afford to offer better deals than OTA networks can so you'll probably see the disappearance of sports from OTA a lot sooner than Prime Time. Companies like Aereo, no matter how they spin it will be just like another pay-tv enterprise (cable, sat). Ok at first but slowly escalating subscription costs as it catches on and gains momentum (if it ever does). I would think that bandwidth restrictions (caps, download speed) would be an issue as well, like geographical location is now for OTA in some cases. Too many unanswered questions at present to be worried about the imminent demise of OTA.
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Old 05-19-2013, 01:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post

Cable etc can afford to offer better deals than OTA networks can so you'll probably see the disappearance of sports from OTA a lot sooner than Prime Time.

In Canada, Saturday night hockey was a tradition on the public airways such as the CBC. More and more the NHL in Canada is migrating towards paid subscription channels (TSN and RDS). In the US the entire BCS playoff\championship for the next two decades will be exclusively on a subscription channel (ESPN). The SEC as a conference has made a deal with ESPN to have most of its programming done via ESPN. So the trend certainly in North America is towards subscription based sports packages.
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Old 05-19-2013, 02:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post

I think Prime Time Evening is a long ways away from being abandoned.

The audience for Prime Time Evening is falling dramatically. Isn't the televison viewing audience now markedly fragmented and not time concentrated due to the varied ways programming can be distributed and recorded? Networks may realize that time based programming around fixed schedules is a thing of the past (the way Netflix did "House of Cards") - which will affect OTA. This may also partly explain DirecTV's interest in purchasing Hulu.
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Old 05-19-2013, 03:24 PM
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All of your points are valid and probably true, so there's no argument there. Sports I don't really care that much about anymore, especially BCS. It's becoming more and more dependent on what kind of lucrative deals can be made with colleges so the emphasis is sliding away from the collegiate sport and closer to who can be a bigger audience draw, which eventually leads to all kinds of issues. I'm old school and definitely a minority but all be damned if I'm going to spend upwards of $100+ just to watch tv so I'll keep my OTA, DVD/Movies, and streaming as long as I can. Someday I'll probably have to go to some sort of pay service but it's not going to happen anytime soon. There's nothing wrong with pay tv if that fits your lifestyle and needs, and for some, that's the only way they can get tv, but I for one refuse to be gouged with ever-increasing subscription fees just because the corporate entity can. A la carte is a whole different thing and maybe this will finally get some sort of reasonable (what ever that is) a la carte plans that may be worth looking into. I wonder how many people actually use the majority of the stations available to them anyway. PQ is also an issue for some of the carriers and I'd hate to spend $2000 on a tv only to have my $80 per month or what ever pay tv service offer me over-compressed programming. It would be interesting to see if they figured out their real cost per channel for the ones that they watch all of the time. But, to each his own. There is no right or wrong.
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Old 05-19-2013, 04:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Sports is the only programming I now watch through the major networks. Both my wife and I now prefer the British shows through Netflix and Amazon (Roku) such as Poirot, Doc Martin and Downton Abbey. We rarely watch any American prime time shows. I dropped cable TV 7 years ago. I put up an antenna for one sole reason - to be able to watch sports (college and pro) on the local channels. But increasingly sports has been migrating to subscription channels. I followed last year's BCS championship game via radio (I grew up in a family that had no TV until I was 18 because my parents considered television to be the devil's handiwork so I grew up listening to sports events through my transistor radio). I'll watch as many college games as I can via TV during the fall then follow the BCS playoffs via radio. But I will never pay another dime for TV! Seven years OTA has saved me almost $8,000. That Channel Master 4228 has earned its keep... Ah, almost forgot, OTA also gets me PBS (and the wonderful Ken Burns documentaries).
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Old 05-19-2013, 06:09 PM
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I'm with ya on that (except for BCS). We've had a 79 element Winegard antenna up on the roof for almost 30 years. We live in a very sweet geographical spot so SD was never an issue and when HD became available, nothing for us to do but get an HDTV STB initially until we bought a new set with an ATSC tuner. Environmental conditions have no effect on our reception at all and we get tons of stations, for free wink.gif
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Old 05-20-2013, 03:56 PM - Thread Starter
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This is a curious announcement in the context of this discussion regarding whether OTA has become tenuous. Someone is making a move into OTA:

The Sony OTA Movie Channel

"Sony Pictures Television is jumping into the subchannel business with the digital network GetTV, which will launch this fall on Univision stations in 24 markets, including in 17 of the top 20 DMAs. It will be available in 44% of U.S. TV homes. Sony is actively selling GetTV to other station groups. The diginet will air old movies from Sony’s library of some 3,500 films, including Lawrence of Arabiaand The Bridge on the River Kwai."

http://thebeersoncomcast.wordpress.com/2013/05/19/gettv-sony-ota-movie-channel/

“The over-the-air market provides a significant growth opportunity for our channels business,” SPT prexy Andy Kaplan said in announcing getTV. “We recognize the demand for premium content that appeals to audiences of all ages, which is exactly what getTV will offer.”

http://variety.com/2013/tv/news/sony-pictures-tv-slates-fall-debut-for-gettv-movie-classics-net-1200405186/

I enjoy some of the older programming on MeTV in Atlanta (subchannel 2.2).
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Old 05-21-2013, 09:17 AM
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Perhaps the outlook is different for vintage material than it is for new productions.
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Old 05-21-2013, 11:07 AM
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I think I see bwam's point here....
If the FCC repacks/shrinks the bands, many stations may be forced to share an RF channel, just to keep their primary programming on the air.
Where will people like Sony find sub-channel bandwidth?

Maybe Sony knows something we don't?

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Old 05-21-2013, 11:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dattier View Post

Perhaps the outlook is different for vintage material than it is for new productions.

Especially since home and antenna owners tend to be of an older generation and demographic. Movies such as "Bridge on the River Kwai" may mean something to those who grew up in the 50's and 60's as does the programming for MeTV. Many people of my generation are going back to recapture old memories of television. Some dramatic shows such as "Naked City" are worth a second look given the quality of writing plus a glimpse of future stars (e.g. Robert Duvall) who got their first steps on shows like that.

The newer generations may be targeted through devices such as a cell phone or tablet with a different programming set. (Though I have a standalone Hauppauge device - no PC needed - that has a coax antenna input and an Ethernet output for streaming OTA programming to mobile devices.)
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