HDMI "OUT" PORTS KEEP GOING BAD - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 20 Old 04-16-2013, 09:04 PM - Thread Starter
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I have a Samsung 650 series HDTV, Comcast DVR STB, and a Sony bluray theater system. The STB has coax in and HDMI out to the bluray. Then HDMI out to the HDTV. This has been set up for just over a year. The problem that I'm having is the HDMI "out" port on the bluray goes bad. While the bluray is out for service at Sony, I'll just be running HDMI out of the STB to the tv and within a couple of weeks, the HDMI "out" port on the STB goes bad. In the past year, this exact situation has happened 3 times. I'm getting ready to send the Sony bluray theater system back to Sony for the third time and I just replaced my forth Comcast STB.... 3 of them were connected to the bluray and one was from another room just to do some testing. Anyway, I'm starting to think that there is something wrong with my HDTV sending bad signals or even electrical spikes back through the HDMI cables and damaging the HDMI "out" ports on the bluray and STB. I talked to a service person at the Geek Squad and he said that it's possible that the tv has a problem but he never heard of such symptoms. A service guy from another company came out today and basically said the same thing. My original setup was a cable box and dvd player on a stand next to the tv using 2 - 15 foot 24 awg in-wall HDMI cables from monoprice. Then I purchased the Sony bluray theater system and a Logitech RF remote and moved everything across the room to a cabinet. I ran the one of the 15 foot cables through the floor to the basement and anchored it to the floor joist. Then I coupled the 15 foot cable to a 30 foot cable to reach the cabinet across the room. The 30 foot cable is attached to and runs along side of my HVAC trunk line. I'm thinking that this may also be part of the problem. The cable might be getting static charge from the HVAC and sending it to the component. I have purchased a new 30 foot Redmere cable from Monoprice. Can this cable be coupled to the original 15 footer? any advice or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advanced,
James
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post #2 of 20 Old 04-17-2013, 12:03 AM
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What symptoms do you see when the HDMI port goes bad?
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post #3 of 20 Old 04-17-2013, 05:04 AM - Thread Starter
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this has not happen while watching something, only when turning on the system. the system might work for a month or two, then suddenly, the next time it is turned on, it does not work. i get the black screen with "no signal"
thanks
james
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post #4 of 20 Old 04-17-2013, 07:29 AM
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If the devices are plugged into different outlets, then you probably have a "ground loop" situation. If it was analog video, you'd have a visual indication, possibly not so with digital. Cable or antenna coax cables can also cause ground loops.

If there is a ground loop, then you will continually "blow" the ultra sensitive HDMI ports. Solving it could require some major home power line restructuring. (and/or coax isolation)

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Sturgeons Revelation: "Ninety percent of everything is crud."
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post #5 of 20 Old 04-17-2013, 08:45 AM - Thread Starter
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The STB and the theater system (which is an "all-in-one" unit) are plugged into a 6 outlet power/surge protector which is about 6-8 y/o. The TV is plugged into a "plug-in" style single surge protector on the opposite side of the room. So, are you saying that there might be an electrical problem and not a problem with my TV? When you say "Solving it could require some major home power line restructuring. (and/or coax isolation)" .... what are some possibilities and what do you mean by coax isolation..... separating the coax cable from the others? Also, about a year and a half ago, my next-door neighbor had a lightning strike which blew out all of his AV equipment along with several other things. The only problem that I had from that was my underground fence transmitter blew out and everything else seamed fine. Would you thing that my surge protectors took the brunt of that lightning strike and are no longer functioning properly?
Thanks,
James
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post #6 of 20 Old 04-17-2013, 09:22 AM
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Maybe it's simply a HDMI/HDCP "handshake" issue. Perhaps the power up sequence of the hardware is causing the problem. Or... 45' of HDMI cable is too long. wink.gif

EDIT:
The Redmere cable may help. I'd opt to get a 50' Redmere and eliminate the coupler and additional cable.
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post #7 of 20 Old 04-17-2013, 10:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Ratman, How would I know if my components are HDCP compliant? If I'm using HDMI, I would think that they are HDCP compliant. Since I'm using the Logitech RF remote and software, I should be able to configure the power-up sequence. What component should be first, second, third...etc? Also, replacing both HDMI cables is not an option at this time because the original 15' cable is behind a stone fire place wall which would require significant damage and repair to that stone wall. This was poor planning on my part when i built the wall. So I would like to leave this as my last option.
Thanks,
James
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post #8 of 20 Old 04-17-2013, 11:38 AM
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HDCP compliance is only a problem in PC interfaces and equipment (usually with DVI interface) that is nearly ten years old.

I would expect you would want to power up the SOURCE of the signal before the DISPLAY....but if that doesn't work, be sure to try it the other way round.
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post #9 of 20 Old 04-17-2013, 12:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by holl_ands View Post

HDCP compliance is only a problem in PC interfaces and equipment (usually with DVI interface) that is nearly ten years old.
You may want to check your information sources.eek.gif
I didn't say compliance.... I suggested "handshake" sequence.

To the OP.... when you get the Redmere and try it out, report back.
EDIT:
If the problem persists after introduction of the Redmere cable. Try all permutations of power up sequences. And also "timing" of the the power up sequences.
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post #10 of 20 Old 04-17-2013, 02:43 PM - Thread Starter
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thanks.
i'm going to fiddle with it tonight and install the redmere cable. the problem is that i may not see anything for a couple week or even a couple of months. after all of my components were fixed each time, they would work fine for a couple of months, then burn out within a week from one another.
thanks again. i'll let you know how i make out.
james
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post #11 of 20 Old 04-24-2013, 10:56 AM - Thread Starter
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well, everything is hooked up except the sony bluray because it's out for service. i installed the redmere cable away from the hvac and re-routed as much of the cables as possible to avoid any signal conflicts. it's been running for a few days and seems fine.... but that's what i said the last 3 times. i'll keep you udated.
james
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post #12 of 20 Old 04-24-2013, 12:43 PM
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Is the Cable TV line properly grounded where it enters the house? It should be grounded back to the same point as the house electrical ground electrode (or, ground rod).
There can be some nasty voltages on the line that comes from the pole, versus the house ground.

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post #13 of 20 Old 04-24-2013, 01:17 PM - Thread Starter
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I don't know. Would this be a connection outside of the house or inside? what should i look for? I know some about electrical, but just enough to get buy. I'll have to check that tonight.
Thanks,
James
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post #14 of 20 Old 04-24-2013, 01:59 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HOOKEDONSONICS View Post

I don't know. Would this be a connection outside of the house or inside? what should i look for? I know some about electrical, but just enough to get buy. I'll have to check that tonight.
Thanks,
James

Let me ask you a couple of questions:

1) Have you ever had a failure when the cable STB was not connected?

2) Does the cable STB have a component video output and does the Sony "Theater System" combo have component video inputs?

To me this seems more likely to be a cable STB issue than anything else. You can go out and try to measure it but if you find a problem what are you going to do about it? Most cable company techs in this area wouldn't know what to do either.

I'd instead make sure you have the coax cable input to the STB going through a surge protector before the STB. You mentioned the power surge protectors but I didn't see anything about a coax surge protector in your system.

If the cable STB has component video output and the Sony will accept component video input (probably unlikely) then I'd disconnect the HDMI and run component video and digital audio to the Sony. That will also eliminate that HDMI cable and you won't lose any video or audio quality with the STB connected that way. Then see if your problem goes away.

Of course, if you tell me you've had failures when the cable STB was not connected, then all of the above isn't worth anything and you should just ignore it.
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post #15 of 20 Old 04-24-2013, 02:37 PM - Thread Starter
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1. No
2. I'm pretty sure yes for both, but I'll have to check that tonight. This is the Sony unit that I have .. http://www.hhgregg.com/sony-1-000-watt-5-1-3d-blu-ray-home-theater/item/BDVE580

My surge protector is just a standard 6 outlet. So I should have coax going into a surge protector and then out to the STB so that it's protected before the STB.

Thanks,
James
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post #16 of 20 Old 04-24-2013, 03:37 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HOOKEDONSONICS View Post

1. No
2. I'm pretty sure yes for both, but I'll have to check that tonight. This is the Sony unit that I have .. http://www.hhgregg.com/sony-1-000-watt-5-1-3d-blu-ray-home-theater/item/BDVE580

My surge protector is just a standard 6 outlet. So I should have coax going into a surge protector and then out to the STB so that it's protected before the STB.

Thanks,
James

I looked at the drawing of the back panel in the operating instructions and there are no component input jacks on the Sony unfortunately. So you are stuck with HDMI input as your only method.

Yes, there are surge protectors that have coax input and outputs for handling antenna and cable inputs. Make sure the surge protector is rated for cable TV (not just over-the-air antenna).

I don't see how the TV could be sending out a spurious signal that blows out the other equipment and yet still is fully functional. I can see how it could be the STB since you've had to replace those boxes. The Sony was just caught downstream through the HDMI cable.
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post #17 of 20 Old 04-24-2013, 07:16 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm sorry, the system is actually the Sony BDV-E780W not the "580" and it appears the "780" does not have them either. It does appear that my Comcast STB does have the component output jacks.

When you say ... "I don't see how the TV could be sending out a spurious signal that blows out the other equipment and yet still is fully functional. I can see how it could be the STB since you've had to replace those boxes. The Sony was just caught downstream through the HDMI cable."

I talked to an AV Tech that said he never heard of a TV doing such things, and I had another AV Tech come out to do some testing and he basically said the same thing, but he did replace the power supply and the board that has the HDMI ports. He did say that he did not think this was the problem. I can see where the problem may be within the STB but what confuses me is the sequence of which the HDMI outputs goes bad first. The HDMI output from the Sony to the TV goes first. Then when the Sony is removed and the STB is connected directly to the TV, the HDMI output from the STB goes bad. So, if something is going through the STB, how is it damaging the Sony HDMI output first??? That is why I'm confused. I just don't understand electricity at this level.

Thanks
James
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post #18 of 20 Old 04-24-2013, 08:46 PM
 
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Without testing the equipment it would be difficult to state anything as a fact. Electricity moves to a lower potential. It might be that Sony's HDMI ports were more susceptible by their design/chipset than anything else. Remove that and the STB's HDMI board takes the hit. We're probably not talking about too much of a surge. It is however strange that the problem remanifests itself on two different components separately.

All speculation. Really the best thing to do is to get a good surge protector for the coax coming into your house and see if that improves the situation. Having it properly grounded in case of lightning is good too but you never mentioned that any of the problems were tied to the weather.
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post #19 of 20 Old 04-25-2013, 04:49 AM
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Why not call Comcast and request that they come out to check for proper grounding?
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post #20 of 20 Old 10-15-2013, 11:12 AM - Thread Starter
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well, about 6 months have gone by, so here's my update. after i got my bluray back from sony, i have everything install using new hdmi cables and new surge protectors with coax protection. i re-routed all of the cables to avoid any possible interference. the first few days seemed to be ok but within the first 2 weeks, i had to unplug everything - 3 times - and let them sit for a while. since then, i have not had any problems with the hdmi ports, but i've noticed that the system takes longer to start up ..... meaning from power up to visible display. within the last 3-4 months, i've noticed that voices are not matching lip movement. now, if i change the channel and then back to the previous channel, then it's fine for a short while. also, if i watch something on "on demand" there are no issues... kinda strange. seems as though there may be a lag in the signal getting through the cable..??
thanks,
james
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