RF HDTV Modulator for DVHS VCR with built in ATSC tuner - Page 3 - AVS Forum
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post #61 of 81 Old 06-24-2013, 09:41 PM
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Originally Posted by ctdish View Post

If someone can point me to software that would reliably produce a playable MUX with this card I would be grateful.

John

Can you try this stream? It does not have any PSIP, but it's properly muxed to 19.392658 Mbps.

http://www.w6rz.net/advatsc.ts

It's 256,952,572 bytes, and the play time is 105.5 seconds.

Ron

HD MPEG-2 Test Patterns http://www.w6rz.net
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post #62 of 81 Old 06-25-2013, 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by dr1394 View Post

Can you try this stream? It does not have any PSIP, but it's properly muxed to 19.392658 Mbps.

From the data sheet:

FILE ENCODING REQUIREMENTS

File Type: MPEG2 Transport Stream (TS) file.
TS Multiplex Rate: 19.392658 Mbps +/- 54 bps (ATSC)
TS Packet Size: 188 Bytes
Other File Specs: The TS file begin and end on whole TS packet boundaries. and contain an integer number of TS packets.
Minimum File Size: 16 MB (6.6 secs @ 19.392658 Mbps)
Video Format: Any of 18 ATSC Formats (per ATSC A/53b)
Audio Encoding: AC-3 (per ATSC A52)
Data Tables: MPEG2 compliant Program Specific Information (PSI) tables (PAT and PMT) must be present.
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post #63 of 81 Old 06-25-2013, 05:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland View Post

From the data sheet:

FILE ENCODING REQUIREMENTS

File Type: MPEG2 Transport Stream (TS) file.
TS Multiplex Rate: 19.392658 Mbps +/- 54 bps (ATSC)
TS Packet Size: 188 Bytes
Other File Specs: The TS file begin and end on whole TS packet boundaries. and contain an integer number of TS packets.
Minimum File Size: 16 MB (6.6 secs @ 19.392658 Mbps)
Video Format: Any of 18 ATSC Formats (per ATSC A/53b)
Audio Encoding: AC-3 (per ATSC A52)
Data Tables: MPEG2 compliant Program Specific Information (PSI) tables (PAT and PMT) must be present.

The stream I posted fits all those requirements, especially the 19.392658 Mbps +/- 54 bps one. It's been my experience that freeware or cheap TS multiplexors are not very good.

Ron
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post #64 of 81 Old 06-25-2013, 05:27 PM
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Plus, Tv tuners/demods vary wildly as to how tolerant they are of streams that aren't 100% ATSC compliant..LG's (especially the LG DVD Recorders) usually are the most forgiving, Sony, Panasonic and Vizio not so much so. Many will not find or manually add a channel unless a scan is done. I recently bought some Insignia Tv's for use at one of my stations..If the transmitter goes off air for more than a blip, the damn things delete the channel from memory and require a rescan. Manual add will not work in this case. Obviously Ron did not design that tuner.rolleyes.gif
I have a Dynex cheapo set that really works well at finding channels and dealing with any changes I make with my home QAM modulators and their transport streams (and not limited to ATSC rates either!) smile.gif

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post #65 of 81 Old 06-26-2013, 06:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dr1394 View Post

The stream I posted fits all those requirements

Sorry Ron, I was not paying close attention as in no PSIP vs required PSI. Devil in the details smile.gif
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post #66 of 81 Old 06-26-2013, 01:40 PM
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DR1394, your file with the cartoon plays OK through the HDTV998 card. The extension just needed to be changed to .trp
I have done some more experimenting with VideoRedo and the card. There is some max file length between 2 and 8 Gig beyond which the card will not accept. 2 Gig seems to be a safe size and 8 Gig never works. The transport stream output parameters that work in VideoRed are the PIDS set to 30, 31 and 34 HEX for Program Map, Video and Audio. The MUX output rate needs to be set to manual with a rate of 19.392 entered in the box. This is as close to the rate of 19.392658 Mbps as it will go but still off by a hundred bps or so. If the file is short, editing the extension to .trp will make it useable by the 998 card. If it is longer I use FILESPLI to break it into a series of 2 GIF files and then edit the name to have the file name, numerical position and of course .trp extension. These can all be entered into the playlist to play the whole program. This is a little time consuming but I don't know of a more automatic way to get playable files.
My local FOX channel WTIC has a of variation reported in the last sec MUX rate by TSReader of over 1 MHZ. Its whole MUX recordings are not accepted by the HDTV 998 card.
John
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post #67 of 81 Old 07-14-2013, 07:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AntAltMike View Post

...the remaining obstacle to using a Sencore manufactured 8VSB modulator in a consumer application is the availability of a suitable, compatible MPEG encoded, unencrypted transport stream. ...
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Originally Posted by AntAltMike View Post

...Are you now going to try to 8VSB modulate something that originates as copy-protected QAM modulated MPEG2, or HDMI, or even as uncompressed digital video stream? Can these components you have aggregated and assembled take an uncompressed digital stream and compress it? Can they start with and RGB input or a component input?
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...as far as I can see, all that has been accomplished is that an unencrypted ATSC off-air signal that has been received and stored somewhere can now be distributed in unencrypted ATSC at the lower end of the UHF channel band.

None of you have access to the streams that come out of Power View and Motorola commercial receivers. None of you can get such receivers activated even if you buy them. Last I knew, DISH Network used Nagravision encryption and DirecTV used proprietary encryption. Is there an accessible point in DirecTV or DISH Network signal processing at which that encryption has been stripped or otherwise nullified and the data stream exists in suitable form? FWIW, DirecTV was engineered before MPEG2 was codified and its audio was incompatible with MPEG2 decoding. That was, of course, before they began carrying HD, so I don't know if any vestiges of that encoding system would continue to impede attempts at decoding by an ATSC compliant tuner.

So has anything useful evolved from any of this?
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post #68 of 81 Old 07-14-2013, 01:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AntAltMike View Post

None of you have access

At one time Nextcom, LLC (R5000-HD) had mods for Dish, DirecTV, etc. that allowed users to record their programming. It appears the R5000-HD is no longer available. Want to know the real story about the early days of DirecTV methods of transport then I suggest asking member dr1394 (Ron). He did a lot of the engineering work on their system.

IMO, most folks will have little or no interest in devices that can only do H.262 transports. There are many media servers and players that can do so much more, i.e., serve & play MKV, M2TS, FLAC, MP3, etc., etc., (see below) in addition to streaming from several IPTV providers (Amazon, Netflix, VUDU, etc.).

I purchased one of the Sencore 998C cards and may play around with it someday but I do not have an intended use for it.


Example, this is the file types the WD TV Live can play:
Code:
Video - AVI (Xvid, AVC, MPEG1/2/4), MPG/MPEG, VOB, MKV (h.264, x.264, AVC, MPEG1/2/4, VC-1), TS/TP/M2T (MPEG1/2/4, AVC, VC-1), MP4/MOV (MPEG4, h.264), M2TS, WMV9, FLV (h.264)
Photo - JPEG, GIF, TIF/TIFF, BMP, PNG
Audio - MP3, WAV/PCM/LPCM, WMA, AAC, FLAC, MKA, AIF/AIFF, OGG, Dolby Digital, DTS
Playlist - PLS, M3U, WPL
Subtitle - SRT, ASS, SSA, SUB, SMI
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post #69 of 81 Old 07-14-2013, 01:54 PM
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I've been waaaaay too busy to even think about it, of late.

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post #70 of 81 Old 07-14-2013, 02:49 PM
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DISH used to have an 8VSB distribution module available for its model 5000 receiver that sold for $100. Ken H here said he has a few. I never found out if DISH actually paid Zenith or whomever for permission to do that, but if they didn't, any legal skirmish that might have emanated from a patent violation would have been near the bottom of DISH Network's litigation defense concerns.

As I recall, that 8VSB modulator was rendered obsolete by DISH subsequently modulating all of its HDTV in 8PSK, because the tuner in the model receiver that accepted the 8VSB card was not 8PSK capable.

The DirecTV Sony A/B-2 or A/B-3 has a port that gave it some capabilities that other receivers of its era didn't have. I only remember vaguely that one of them enabled that receiver to interface with some GPS dish aiming device for use on boats and other unstable vehicles. Some old timers here might remember what other capabilities it had or could have had. This was back when there was interest in "firewire" that never came to fruition in the DBS industry.

DBSForum Administrator Dan Collins used to have inside contacts at DirecTV and often wrote about the DirecTV encoding and encryption, but that Forum is long defunct and as far as anyone knows, not publicly archived. Administrator Collins is presently a member and occasional contributor at DBSTalk.
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post #71 of 81 Old 07-14-2013, 02:55 PM
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None of you have access to the streams that come out of Power View and Motorola commercial receivers.

Sorry, but I do. Via multiple routes. wink.gif And legally too.

Bob

The views expressed here are my own and do not necessarily represent those of the FOX,ABC,CBS,or CW Networks,MeTv, my employer or its parent company. Nor my wife for that matter!
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post #72 of 81 Old 07-14-2013, 05:25 PM
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Sorry, but I do. Via multiple routes. wink.gif And legally too.

Same here. And legally also.

All Comments made are my own and not of my employer.
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post #73 of 81 Old 07-15-2013, 05:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AntAltMike View Post

As I recall, that 8VSB modulator was rendered obsolete by DISH subsequently modulating all of its HDTV in 8PSK, because the tuner in the model receiver that accepted the 8VSB card was not 8PSK capable.

Nope, moving from PSK to 8PSK would not have changed anything in regards to the 8VSB modulator. Same for going from DVB-S to DVB-S2. Switching from H.262 to H.264 would have required a real time transcoder that may or may not been available at the time.
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post #74 of 81 Old 07-15-2013, 07:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland View Post

Nope, moving from PSK to 8PSK would not have changed anything in regards to the 8VSB modulator. Same for going from DVB-S to DVB-S2. Switching from H.262 to H.264 would have required a real time transcoder that may or may not been available at the time.

But the 8PSK module that DISH sold was a plug in module that only fit the old receiver that couldn't process 8PSK satellite transponder signals.
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post #75 of 81 Old 07-15-2013, 07:45 AM
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Does getting the PowerView and Motorolla receivers activated "Legally" entail telling your employers that you need them for some work-at-home tests you will be doing?

I used to have a retirement home customer that thought they were getting their out-of-market broadcast TV network signals legally. They were paying WSNet monthly fpr carriage of network stations in Erie and I think Nashville because they were 60 miles from Richmond and had severe reception problems there. It turned out that someone at WSNet had activated them under the guise of being used at the premises of some other customers who could have them legally activated. probably other SMATV customers of their who were within those stations DMAs.
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post #76 of 81 Old 07-15-2013, 08:58 AM
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But the 8PSK module that DISH sold was a plug in module that only fit the old receiver that couldn't process 8PSK satellite transponder signals.

Going from QPSK to 8PSK simply allowed Dish to add more channels (and/or go from SD to HD) to any given satellite transponder. Had nothing to do with their decision to no longer offer a unit with ATSC RF output. They switched to H.264 (2006) and this would/will have increased the complexity of any STB that would have had ATSC RF output.

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post #77 of 81 Old 04-17-2014, 08:37 AM
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I know it's been a while, but has anyone found a way to live stream using the HDTV998 card? I just got one off of eBay without really digging into the "what can I do with this?" question. Now that it's here, it's time to start thinking about it, and this thread seems to have the best info available...

Mark
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post #78 of 81 Old 04-17-2014, 10:27 AM
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Probably not with the software provided by the manufacturer. It can only use a file as a source.
See if Trip is still interested.
John
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post #79 of 81 Old 04-18-2014, 05:38 AM
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Unfortunately, the API is in a language I don't understand (VB, I think?) and I haven't had time to delve into it. I've played with it by feeding transport stream files, but that's about it.

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post #80 of 81 Old 04-18-2014, 08:20 AM
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Unfortunately, the API is in a language I don't understand (VB, I think?) and I haven't had time to delve into it. I've played with it by feeding transport stream files, but that's about it.

- Trip

It looks like the API is in both C and VB, both of which I know.

I took a decompiler to the .DLL, but it just told me it wasn't a Win32 DLL. I tried to look at it with a disassembler, but that just gave me garbage, too...
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post #81 of 81 Old 04-20-2014, 05:50 AM
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I've been doing work with C lately, even though I've never used it previously, but that is not on a driver level, so I can't really do much with C either.

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