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post #1 of 12 Old 10-09-2013, 01:18 AM - Thread Starter
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look that up in google earth street view and look up you'll see my antenna (it's huge) channels 7, 9 ,11, 13 no problem 

Channel 5 forget about it even though this thing has an UHF component channel 2 is spotty and channel 4 rarely acts up, Now if you look in antenna web and go for a satellite view you'll see my problem a big arse red brick building in the way of my reception on wilshire blvd just a block away and inbetween me and mt wilson. thinking off adding a self built 4 or 8 bay coat hanger antenna, and joining them with a splitter before the whole shabang goes down to my apartment. note here one of my biggest problems is that I have alot of connections (3 computer tuners one sd convertor box and a standard flat panel tv) and my amp is in my apartment where the signal comes in not upstairs by the antenna, can't be helped tried pre-amps they didn't work can't afford a great one the one I tried sucked. So I'm trying to get a better signal in the first place. 

Need some hints, have a 3D printer designing a 4 bay maybe an 8 bay to be clipped onto the mast. figure if I add a splitter to use both antenna's I should be in business.

however I need some hints and advice on how to optimize this.

And do the hanger antenna designs really work? 5.75" (146mm distance between the screws)?

any advice would be appreciated

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post #2 of 12 Old 10-09-2013, 03:21 AM
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Pick up a 91XG or a DB8 and combine it to the existing the antenna using a UVSJ (not a splitter). Be prepared to try multiple mounting locations to see if you can find a spot where the interference from the other building is at is minimum.

You need a narrow beamwidth antenna, not a four bay coat hanger job.
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post #3 of 12 Old 10-09-2013, 08:37 AM - Thread Starter
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half of my antenna is similar to a 91xg, (except for the weird shape of the things) if you look at google earth street view you'll see what I mean. I can't buy anything at this time. at least not anything worth mentioning. One catch about using a uvsj is that I would lose the narrow focus uhf part of my big antenna. when I look at the DB8 it's basically an 8 bay wire antenna with a reflector behind it. So the way I read your answer from what I can understand I got the narrow focus, but the direction must be off. I've always had problems getting both 2 and 5 in it has become almost impossible since they built the building next door.

 

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post #4 of 12 Old 10-09-2013, 12:43 PM
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Can you raise the height on your antenna & get it above the building next door? Looks like that building may be a little lower in the middle? Maybe try moving your antenna back to the middle of your building with the signal path just to the left of the brick building?
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post #5 of 12 Old 10-09-2013, 02:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Regrettably my landlord won't cooperate with this and if I raise it any higher I would need guywires and they will not go for it, I got to keep  it there, any other place would be blocked. Also the only reason this landlord is letting me keep my antenna on the roof is because I had permission from the previous landlord.

So that mast as it is, is my only option. but I could add like a 4 or 8 bay antenna (if the 8 bays are in one row) to the mast.

thinking if I could find some refrigerator shelves I could put it behind the wire hanger antenna because my mast wouldn't be able to tolerate a solid surface that would act like a sail.

But I would need some data what would be the optimal distance behind the wire hanger can anyone tell me this.

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post #6 of 12 Old 10-09-2013, 10:11 PM - Thread Starter
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I found out the following other facts

since I had to move my antenna to the other side of the roof after they built that monstrosity next door, the antenna cable was extended, by adding a 50 foot cable, well there is also a  12 - 15 foot cable from the balun to the roof, so the total run to my amplifier is about 120 ft estimated. however the mid piece (which is cheaper cable I assume ) is about 27 ft too long. 

If I could get a cable guy to make me a 24 ft piece (they got the really good stuff) I might cut down on about 1-2 db of attenuation. (poor me has to beg for everything) 

on the roof with my laptop and a inDtube dtv stick I got channel 2,4,5 in but windows media center register those with 4 bars, so still weaker than channel 7, 9, 11 & 13.

 

So maybe I can improve cheaply if I beg some peeps, but unless I add an antenna with the same lead length to the splitter I dunno how much it will do good

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post #7 of 12 Old 10-11-2013, 04:06 PM - Thread Starter
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okies I can tell you some more news still need help, replaced the excess run of 50 ft rg6U with 25 feet of rg6 high performance from a satellite guy that was nice.  However this did nothing to improve my reception, also found out my philips amp did nothing as well took it out all the channels are still the same. Also found out that this is my antenna Channel master ADVANTAGE SERIES VHF/UHF/FM  30-ELEMENT, 113''BOOM. From what I heard in two different forums the antenna should be fine. need to still try to replace my balun and the first part of the cable run (15 feet lower quality cable with 15 feet of cable tv quality I scored the other day as well. However, the location where it's mounted, it's slanted, means I'm gonna need some help with this, and I'll need some help from some people to do this (for safety's sake).

What else can I say? I might need to replace the screws in order to do this and I will definetly need my laptop (with a tv tuner) to do the orientation, just to figure out if I can improve my reception on the worst channels without losing the other ones.

this is all I have found out in the last couple of days, main things that need to be done in my opinion sand contacts replace balun and that cable and maybe reorient by about 1 to 3 degrees, maybe much more and find a bounce signal, if that does not help then I'll be at my wit's end.

Anything else you folks can think of would be appreciated.

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post #8 of 12 Old 10-11-2013, 06:45 PM
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Quote:
And do the hanger antenna designs really work?
Yes, but some designs are better than others.
Quote:
5.75" (146mm distance between the screws)?
The vertical spacing between the bays and the element lengths need to be greater than that, more like 8 or 9 inches. This design is better:
http://m4antenna.eastmasonvilleweather.com/index.html

see also:
https://sites.google.com/site/maycreates/ota-setup/mclapp-4

and:
http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=100137
Quote:
Channel 5
When you say channel 5, do you mean virtual channel 5.1 on real channel 31? It is the real channel that determines the antenna needed.

tvfool at 30ft:
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d46ae8f8b47b1ec

height not specified:
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d46aea33737f881

tvfool interactive maps, at 20ft:
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d46ae93e3f18a45

tvfool interactive maps, at 30ft:
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d46ae68d1b53b13

If the new Evergeen building is now in the way of your signals, I wonder if you can pick up some useful reflections from a building that is east or west of your location.

If you can not measure it, you can not improve it.
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www.megalithia.com/elect/aerialsite/dttpoorman.html
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post #9 of 12 Old 10-11-2013, 08:21 PM - Thread Starter
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redoing the distance is not a problem I can just print some spacers and since I only cut one of my hangers so far I could redo the length as well, but here is my real question assuming I'm aiming in the same direction exactly and I have this bow tie type antenna on the mast approximately 1 ft behind the balun tap (exact measurement to follow) for the channel master I have on the roof in order to splitter combine them would the lead from the bow tie have to be one ft shorter so the signals sync up? this is just theory right now, but I just wanted to know after I try to rehab the antenna and I still don't get a strong enough signal. 2,4,5 i.e. 43, 36,31 RF channels those are the weakest channels I got that actually bother me, the upper channel numbers are fairly irrelevant.

so I would need an antenna that is optimized for rf between 31 and 43.  

Does anyone have any clue about combining antennas? and which way this would work best? because the uhf 31-43 are the ones I need and they are fairly miserable.

albeit just from a location standpoint 36 (aka ch4 nbc) has the strongest signal right now (as in 50-60)  channel 43 (aka ch2 cbs ) is at about 42 in signal strength and channel 31 (aka ktla5) hovers around 36 and drops out all the time. the HI-VHF channels are all in the upper 70's to 90's except for 8 and 10 which I dun give a crp about.

So next on the agenda is taking the antenna down for about 30 min cleaning the contacts replacing that last stretch (15ft) with better cable and sanding the contacts and then trying to reorient the antenna minutely and seeing with my laptop if I can get a little better positioning.

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post #10 of 12 Old 10-12-2013, 12:45 PM
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Test your bowtie antenna alone for your UHF (14 and above) real channels. If it gives you what you want, combine it with a UVSJ, not a splitter, with your big antenna which will be for your VHF real channels (13 and below).

The bowtie antenna should be above or below the big antenna, not behind it.

If you can not measure it, you can not improve it.
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www.megalithia.com/elect/aerialsite/dttpoorman.html
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post #11 of 12 Old 10-13-2013, 02:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Well it would be below but the tie point of the big antenna is not by the mast but rather in front of it and mounting the bowtie under it would place it behind it so to speak ( behind the tie point)
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post #12 of 12 Old 10-13-2013, 09:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Folks, got somethings to report, checked my balun sanded contacts, replaced the 15 ft of coax from the antenna to roof (was rg59 mismatch now it's cable quality rg6 :) )

played with the orientation did not get much improvement at all but the contacts and the cable gave me a very slight improvement signal wise. However where it comes into my house (used a laptop an an atsc stick and I lose most of the dropouts on channel 2,4,5 (43,36,31 RF respectively). So I'm thinking that I should get a distribution amp lose the 2 way splitter and the three way living room splitter leaving only the one 2 way splitter in the bedroom. there is a ge distribution amp that is with-in my current price range http://www.homedepot.com/p/GE-4-Way-Distribution-Amplifier-73290/202698886#.Ultxub8aA20  thinking this could eliminate the losses suffered due to my insane setup ( five total tuners, convertor box living room, bedroom tv, network hdhomerun (will go in livingroom as it is now) and the tvminihd on my hack that is hook to my bedroom tv. Also in the future I might want to add one more hdhomerun, but this would mean splitting again I dunno if that will be feasible, without building a better hd uhf antenna. As I said before the vhf channels all hover around 87 % the ones that count.

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