Antenna Replacement Help - Smithfield RI - Lots of Details - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 7 Old 10-13-2013, 08:05 AM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
Big Gain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 3
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10

Hi,

 

First post here and looking for a new antenna.    Cut the cord five years ago and never going back.     Started with a Roku and now using an Android mini PC for streaming.     Just looking for stronger over-air TV signal and a few more channels.

 

Have an AntennaCraft HDX-1000 amplified antenna on a five foot tall pole attached to the chimney.     Overall height is 30 feet.    It's currently pointed at 110 deg getting 15 or so channels.   Originally purchased from Radio Shack local.

 

 

 

 

We're thinking about replacing it with a higher gain antenna.   Either a muli directional or directional with a rotor.    Cost is not a factor considering what we've saved every month using the current antenna.   Want to do it right this time.

 

Here's our TV fool data:

 

 

 

Would like to pull in the band of channels between 41-43 degrees in additional to what we're already getting from the 110 deg direction.

 

This is our line of sight at the rooftop.

 

 

Thanks in advance for any recommendations.

Big Gain is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 7 Old 10-13-2013, 12:28 PM
AVS Special Member
 
holl_ands's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 3,733
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 54 Post(s)
Liked: 65
If you don't want the hassle of using a Rotator, you are forced into a TWO antenna solution, using either an A/B Switch (Radio Shack has one with Remote Control) or summing them together using an RF Splitter/Combiner....which will result in an Insertion Loss of 3.5-4+ dB plus an increase in the Noise Floor plus whatever interference problems that may or many not occur....but it's certainly worth a try...and if there are specific channels affected, we can help to figure out what kind of Channel Filters might need to add.

There are only UHF Channels in the 41-deg (Mag) direction. To RELIABLY receive all the way down to "THE CW" (esp. if adding RF Combiner), I would recommend the big guns: either 91XG, DB-8e or CM4228HD rather than a 4-Bay or another HDX1000. If you want to try a DIY project, the mclapp M4 Super-4-Bay with Double-Angle-Reflector outperforms the CM4228HD. BTW: mclapp sells DIY 4-Bay Kits, you just have to buy, cut and double fold the Screen Grid Reflector (fencing material).

You didn't indicate whether the HDX1000 is adequate to receive from the 110-deg (Mag) direction. I would recommend testing the effect of inserting an RF Splitter/Combiner on that antenna to see if you lose any channels. If you decide to replace it, bear in mind that the 91XG and DB-8e use PCB Baluns that severely attenuate VHF signals. The CM4228HD has mediocre Ch7-13 reception performance.....and DIY mclapp M4 Super-4-Bay with Double-Angle-Reflector has about 9 dBi of Hi-VHF Gain, but poor SWR that is only a problem in some weak signal situations. So "best" system would use TWO M4's.
Big Gain likes this.
holl_ands is offline  
post #3 of 7 Old 10-13-2013, 01:45 PM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
Big Gain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 3
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Thank you holl_ands. Much appreciated.

The current antenna does work well in the 110 deg direction, just much better in the winter. Lots of trees. We drop 3-4 channels in the summer and when it's windy. Would like to overcome that issue with a larger antenna.

Looking hard at installing a rotor, and planning to install one. Any recommendations?

With that said, is there an 8-bay antenna that would work best on a rotor based on our position?

Was looking at the CM 4228HD or the DB8. Both have great reviews.

I do not have electricity up there, so a pole pre-amp is out. Should I get a signal amp at these distances? Willing to spend the $$$ to get this done right.
Big Gain is offline  
post #4 of 7 Old 10-13-2013, 03:33 PM
AVS Special Member
 
ProjectSHO89's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,679
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 67 Post(s)
Liked: 71
Antenna-mounted pre-amps don't require household power at the antenna. Low voltage power is "inserted" into the coax indoors to run the amp and the same coax delivers the 'boosted" signal indoors. See the pre-amp installation instructions.
Quote:
Lots of trees. We drop 3-4 channels in the summer and when it's windy. Would like to overcome that issue with a larger antenna.

A chainsaw or a taller tower will fix that problem, but a larger antenna may not.
ProjectSHO89 is online now  
post #5 of 7 Old 10-13-2013, 04:15 PM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
Big Gain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 3
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProjectSHO89 View Post

Antenna-mounted pre-amps don't require household power at the antenna. Low voltage power is "inserted" into the coax indoors to run the amp and the same coax delivers the 'boosted" signal indoors. See the pre-amp installation instructions.
A chainsaw or a taller tower will fix that problem, but a larger antenna may not.

OK. That's great news and thanks for the clarification. So, should I go with a pole mount, or inside the house, or will it even be necessary?

The trees in front (across the street) are not on my property. My Stihl Farm Boss has been running great, just not looking to start a war with the neighbors!
Big Gain is offline  
post #6 of 7 Old 10-13-2013, 05:37 PM
AVS Special Member
 
holl_ands's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 3,733
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 54 Post(s)
Liked: 65
A-D's Simulation Model results for DB-8e indicate that it has higher UHF Gain than my modeling results for CM4228HD (which is outperformed by the OLD CM4228)...but DB-8e's Balun has very high attenuation on Ch7-13, so you probably won't get Ch10 and Ch12/13 might force you to add a Hi-VHF Antenna (e.g. inexpensive Antennacraft Y5-7-13)....whereas CM4228HD retains usable, although not ideal, Ch7-13 performance that should be adequate for Hi-VHF channels....so it's your choice: one vs two stacked antennas, where the latter loses about 0.5 dB in the UHF/HiVHF Combiner (with DC PASS on UHF port...which means from Radio Shack or Antennas Direct and NOT UVSJ from Pico-Macom or Holland....they inexplicably have DC PASS only on the VHF port):
https://www.antennasdirect.com/cmss_files/attachmentlibrary/Technical%20Data%20PDF%27s/DB8E-TDS.pdf
http://imageevent.com/holl_ands/multibay/8bayrefl

I presume your question re "pole mount or in the house refers to the Preamp). A Preamp "typically" improves sensitivity by roughly 10 dB. Mast mount minimizes loss of this sensitivity improvement due to TWO effects: the amount of Coax Loss between the Antenna and the Preamp (readily calculated) PLUS the difficult to explain "EVM or Error Vector Magnitude" loss of sensitivity due to SWR mismatch causing signals to bounce between the Antenna and the Preamp, creating short delay multipath on the Coax. EVM loss is MINIMIZED by using a very short Antenna-Preamp Cable...and EVM Loss is usually the LARGER of the two effects. These are convincing reasons to mount the Preamp on the top of the mast....the only question might be whether you want to mount the Power Insertion Module near a (presumably convenient) AC outlet in the attic or close to an HDTV.

And it appears that you need as high a mast as is feasible/practical/affordable....personally I like the convenience of a 8-10 foot triangular or square tower mounted in concrete in the ground, with a hinge at the top that allows the HEAVY-DUTY mast (perhaps 2 to 2-1/2 inch O.D., joint-free PIPE with a counterweight) to be tilted over for raising and lowering without ANY need for a climbing harness. Guy wires are always advisable for tall masts to survive high winds....preferably with SECURE, easy to disconnect connections, rather than simply wrapped around itself, because you will need to disconnect one or more each time you tilt the mast over for maintenance/upgrade. You should check out this thread for recommendations.....most good ones were build for even bigger & heavier Ham Radio Antennas:
http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=29559
holl_ands is offline  
post #7 of 7 Old 10-13-2013, 10:18 PM
AVS Special Member
 
tylerSC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Mauldin SC, 29607
Posts: 4,236
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 175 Post(s)
Liked: 97
That HDX1000 is a mediocre antenna. For that type of discreet antenna, I would consider the Winegard Flatwave Air amplified version. It uses a new low noise amplifier and has received good reviews. But, as previously mentioned, an 8-bay or 91XG would be best choices for strongest reception. But you would also possibly need a HiVHF 7-13 antenna, and a low noise preamp such as Winegard LNA-200 or RCA version.
tylerSC is online now  
Reply HDTV Technical

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off