San Jose: AntennasDirect DB-4 + CM777 + CM3414 ---> No signal - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 34 Old 01-19-2014, 12:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi,

I really need help, this is my set up :
AntennasDirect DB-4 + CM777 + CM3414 ---> No signal
When i remove CM3414, i have good amount of channel with AntennasDirect DB-4 + CM777 but I'll get no channel at all with CM3414 (green light is on). I only have 3 HDTV so i use 1 F Type 75 Ohm Terminator. This CM3414 is brandnew, i really don't know what happen, please help if you have any ideals. Please let me know if you'll need more infos from me.

Thanks a lot in advance.

Best,

DLe6
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post #2 of 34 Old 01-19-2014, 12:59 PM
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I'm assuming you meant the CM7777.

You are using both a pre-amp and a distribution amp. You might be overloading your signals.

Post your tvfool results so we can see what reception is like in your area.
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post #3 of 34 Old 01-19-2014, 01:23 PM
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It's possible the previous poster is correct. If so try replacing the 3414 with something like this http://www.amazon.com/Monoprice-110015-PREMIUM-Splitter-Antenna/dp/B00DIGAHB0/ref=sr_1_2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1390166309&sr=1-2&keywords=4+way+antenna+splitter
Other possibilities are the the cabling between the amps has a bad connection or the 3414 is defective. Provide details of the wiring both working and not working for more ideas.
Also the power injector needs to be connected with a run of coax to the 7777. The power will not be passed though the 3414.
John
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post #4 of 34 Old 01-19-2014, 05:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Thank you so much for your posts.
This link below is TV Fool for my location:
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d46ae251d8ee529
I live right on the bottom of a hill, I used CM4228 before but only around 10 channels then i change to 91GX but worse so i go with DB4 and i got good amount of channels, all i want but sometime i don't get 5.1 and i can't get KAXT at all. I've been on the roof for too long to try to fine tune but this is the best i can get.

- Yes i do plug in CM7777 (I tested it with a paper clip as showed on youtube and i got around 22VDC)
- I live not too far from Fry's so i return the 1st CM3414 then get the 2nd CM3414, i got the same result, no signal at all with CM3414 installed.
-This is my wiring setup:
> From Antenna to 20ft RG6 "combine input port of CM7777" then 50ft RG6 from "Output/power of CM7777" to power supply input (port next to white power cable) and plug in then from there "out to TV" 10ft RG6 to TV.
- Everything work fine until i install CM3414 between CM7777 and TV because i'd like to hook up with 3 more TVs:
> this is how i install CM3414, i removed RG6 from CM7777 power supply to TV & insert it to 1 of 4 out put of CM3414 (I do the same with 2 other TV). With 10ft RG6, i connect "out to TV" of CM777 power supply and "From Drop" of CM3414. I use the supply RG6 connect to power adapter and "power in" of CM3414 and plug in wall outlet, green light was on. I did use a termination for unsued port.
I'm on the 2nd CM3414 and all the 1st &2nd CM3414 are brand new, never been used. Please tell me what I've been done WRONG, can't figure it out, please help, it's driving me crazy and really sorry for the long post
I use the image below to install my system (Thank you so much for the owner's picture)





Thank you so much in advance.

DLe6

Quote:
Originally Posted by ctdish View Post

It's possible the previous poster is correct. If so try replacing the 3414 with something like this http://www.amazon.com/Monoprice-110015-PREMIUM-Splitter-Antenna/dp/B00DIGAHB0/ref=sr_1_2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1390166309&sr=1-2&keywords=4+way+antenna+splitter
Other possibilities are the the cabling between the amps has a bad connection or the 3414 is defective. Provide details of the wiring both working and not working for more ideas.
Also the power injector needs to be connected with a run of coax to the 7777. The power will not be passed though the 3414.
John
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post #5 of 34 Old 01-19-2014, 06:19 PM
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With your TVFool results likely mikepier is correct in that you have overload with too much gain. Try removing the CM7777 completely from your system and see what happens.
John
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post #6 of 34 Old 01-19-2014, 08:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Thank you so much for your input. I did try without CM777 the signal is very weak. My location is on bottom of the hill, even with CM777 sometime i get drop out, pixelation too. I'm about too give up and call "Comcrap" but i did invest some good $$$, it's hard for me to walk away from OTA.
I'll give it a try without CM777. Please share if you have anymore ideals.
Thank a lot.
DLe6
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post #7 of 34 Old 01-20-2014, 03:34 AM
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You may not be getting power to the CM-7777 preamp with the CM-3414 dist amp installed in the line. Both amps are independently powered, and the 3414 will not pass power to the 7777. Replace the 3414 with a 4-way splitter so the 7777 power supply will pass power to the 7777 amp. I think the 3414 in the line may be blocking power to the 7777, resulting in loss of signal. And it is also a thought that the 7777 could be too strong and causing overload, especially if it is the newer version. Although you seem to be describing the older version. But you may want to consider the newer version of the CM-7778 preamp, which Fry's now sells in store and has 16db gain.
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post #8 of 34 Old 01-20-2014, 06:00 AM
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With that TV fool report, you should not need any amplification. Also you said you have 20 ft of coax from the antenna to the pre-amp. This is not the correct way to install it. The pre-amp should be mounted directly to the mast as close as possible to the antenna with maybe 3 ft of cable from the antenna to the amp's input. That extra 17 ft of cable you have on it means more signal loss more noise by the time it gets to the amp.

And just an FYI, your current antenna, the DB4 is a UHF only antenna, which means you will have problems getting VHF channels like NBC 11.1 and ABC 7.1
The 91 XG is also a UHF only antenna. The CM 4228 you had before is a VHF/UHF antenna, so you might want to try that again,

Lets start with the basics. From your tvfool report, your stations are at 310-314 degrees, roughly to the NW of you( which is towards San Bruno Mountain/ Sutro Tower). That means the front of the antenna, which for example purposes in the pic above is the right side, should be pointing NW.
Try with just 1 cable from the antenna to a tv and go from there. If you still have issues, then install the amp, but this time close to the antenna.

If results are good, try a regular 3 way splitter to connect to your TV's instead of the dist amp.
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post #9 of 34 Old 01-20-2014, 06:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi,
Thank you all so much for your input.
My CM777 is the old version (around 5 years old).
I'll try without CM777.
The antenna i have right now is Clearstream4 (not DB4, sorry for the confusion).
Can i run Clearstream 4 & CM 4228 (the old version) with CM4228 plug into VHF of CM7777 port --> Clearstream 4 is pointed @ 310 $ CM4228 is pointed @ 314.
If i can't use VHF of CM7777 port for CM4228, can I use the combiner below to combine Clearstream 4 & CM4228



I have the result with Clearstream 4, it could pick up the channel that CM4228 can't, such as CW 44.1, CBS 5,1......

Thanks you so much & really sorry for confusion, long post. I'm kinda blind when it comes to this kinda OTA stuff.

Best,

DLe6
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post #10 of 34 Old 01-20-2014, 07:30 AM
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You can use the 7777 amp as a combiner if it has separate VHF and UHF inputs. The pictured splitter will lose signals from both antennas. this http://www.frys.com/product/5978774?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG will sum a UHF and VHF antenna with little loss so it is a better choice. Keep in mind the 4228 is designed as a primarily UHF antenna. It will pick up some high VHF channels better that a 91GX. It will likely produce the best results when the back of the antenna is facing the station on UHF.
This might be a better choice of antenna for you: http://www.frys.com/product/5848113
John
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post #11 of 34 Old 01-20-2014, 07:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Thank you so much for your help "ctdish"
What if I use Clearstream 4 & CM4228, both go to CM777 without any combiner --> what happen to duplicated channel, it will cancel out or make it stronger.....?
Thanks,
DLe6
Quote:
Originally Posted by ctdish View Post

You can use the 7777 amp as a combiner if it has separate VHF and UHF inputs. The pictured splitter will lose signals from both antennas. this http://www.frys.com/product/5978774?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG will sum a UHF and VHF antenna with little loss so it is a better choice. Keep in mind the 4228 is designed as a primarily UHF antenna. It will pick up some high VHF channels better that a 91GX. It will likely produce the best results when the back of the antenna is facing the station on UHF.
This might be a better choice of antenna for you: http://www.frys.com/product/5848113
John
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post #12 of 34 Old 01-20-2014, 08:22 AM
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^^^^^ I live about 4 miles NE of you (95135) and use a 30-year old Winegard. I don't know what the exact model is anymore but the closest one is the Chromstar 2000, model CA-8100. It is roof mounted (about 30 AGL) and I use a Motorola Broadband Drop Amp Signal Booster (probably don't need that anymore) in the garage where the cable comes in and connects to the house cabling. Reception from Sutro/San Bruno is dead-on-balls perfect regardless of weather conditions.
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post #13 of 34 Old 01-20-2014, 08:44 AM
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You don't need 2 separate antennas to point them at 310 and 314. One antenna will do, provided you are using a VHF/UHF antenna, and just point at approx. 312, split the difference. 2 degrees should not matter. Then you don't need a joiner/combiner
The Clearstream 4 is a UHF antenna. Again you will have issues with VHF channels.


As for the CM 4228, there seems to be confusion. When I looked it up it showed the newer CM 4228HD, which does cover VHF.
The older CM4228 I believe is UHF only.

If you can, try to get a good VHF/UHF antenna, like the HBU-22 or 33 from Radio Shack and if the results are not good, you could always return it.
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post #14 of 34 Old 01-20-2014, 10:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks a lot again for all of your inputs.
Then again my location is on bottom of the hill, my antenna is around 40ft from the ground and it's not even near the top of the hill so i get drop out and pixelation all the time.
I'm still at work, will try all of your ideals when i get home in the afternoon.
Please share if you have anymore ideal.
Best,
-DLe6
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post #16 of 34 Old 01-20-2014, 10:27 AM
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@dle6 - I should have pointed out that my old Winegard is high gain UHF/VHF/FM antenna (79 active elements) so mikepier is correct, you don't need two antennas. I also have a rotor but never need to use it.
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post #17 of 34 Old 01-20-2014, 10:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks a lot for your time "ctdish", I'll open CM777 if i decide to go with 2 antennas.
I'd really like to experience new thing, with all of your helps, i think i can do it.

Best,
-DLe6
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post #18 of 34 Old 01-20-2014, 10:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks a lot "Mikepier".
What the best way to get the antenna pointed to NW 312 degree ? I don't have any handheld compass, I use my android phone with this compass app (not sure if it's accurated):

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.compasspro

Please advise.

Thanks for all of your helps.

-DLe6
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikepier View Post

You don't need 2 separate antennas to point them at 310 and 314. One antenna will do, provided you are using a VHF/UHF antenna, and just point at approx. 312, split the difference. 2 degrees should not matter. Then you don't need a joiner/combiner
The Clearstream 4 is a UHF antenna. Again you will have issues with VHF channels.


As for the CM 4228, there seems to be confusion. When I looked it up it showed the newer CM 4228HD, which does cover VHF.
The older CM4228 I believe is UHF only.

If you can, try to get a good VHF/UHF antenna, like the HBU-22 or 33 from Radio Shack and if the results are not good, you could always return it.
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post #19 of 34 Old 01-20-2014, 11:21 AM
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You can use the compass, or just eyeball it until reception on the tv is good. Have a buddy down by the TV to let you know. Also most tuners have a signal strength meter as a guide.

You can also use this tool from TVfool,

http://www.tvfool.com/index.php?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=90

it draws lines from your house to the transmitter. You can also adjust the location of your antenna on the map for more accurate lines.

Then zoom in on the map, and that will give you an idea where the antenna should point based on the landmarks on your street.

For example, when I used the maps, I knew more or less the antenna had to aim towards my neighbors garage across the street because that's where the line intersected.
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post #20 of 34 Old 01-20-2014, 12:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks a lot Mikepier, i'll give it a try after i get out of work today.
DLe6
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikepier View Post

You can use the compass, or just eyeball it until reception on the tv is good. Have a buddy down by the TV to let you know. Also most tuners have a signal strength meter as a guide.

You can also use this tool from TVfool,

http://www.tvfool.com/index.php?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=90

it draws lines from your house to the transmitter. You can also adjust the location of your antenna on the map for more accurate lines.

Then zoom in on the map, and that will give you an idea where the antenna should point based on the landmarks on your street.

For example, when I used the maps, I knew more or less the antenna had to aim towards my neighbors garage across the street because that's where the line intersected.
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post #21 of 34 Old 01-21-2014, 06:55 AM - Thread Starter
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I got home late yesterday, it was dark outside already but i did remove CM3414, everything went back normal still get strong signal all all station but still can't get KAXT 1.X. I'll try to rotate the antenna to NW 310 today to see what happen.
I'm thinking using old CM4228 for my 2nd TV so i don't have to split up the signal so my question is can I put 2 antennas on the same mass with 2 RG6 to 2 difference TVs ?
Thanks,
Best.
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post #22 of 34 Old 01-21-2014, 10:23 AM
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KAXT transmits from the east side of the Bay, not from San Francisco. You probably need to rotate the antenna to the right to receive it.
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post #23 of 34 Old 01-21-2014, 10:26 AM
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Hey, I'm also in San Jose. I use a Antenna's Direct DB2e and a RCA TVPRAMP1R Outdoor Antenna Preamplifier mounted on my roof where I previously had a DISH (maybe at 12ft). I get great reception (some are not super strong signal strenth like 50%, but still work). Unfortunatley, I'm missing Channel 11 (NBC / real channel 12). Still trying to solve that if anyone has ideas.

 

Anyway, I'd recommend removing the distribution amp - the pre-amp you have should be boosting the signals plenty I'd think. I'd also second making sure you have a power passing splitter. I split my antenna signals inside a little comcast box on the outside of my house and then have the cables go to each tv and my network closet. Not everything is setup 100% yet, but I'm getting there...

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post #24 of 34 Old 01-21-2014, 10:48 AM
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I receive everything from Sutro/San Bruno (Channel 11.x) from the Evergreen Area of San Jose. Roof mounted antenna, 30'AGL. FM is separated at the base of the antenna and shunted off to the stereo receiver. RG-6 to a Motorola Drop Amp Signal Booster in the garage then to a 3-way splitter and off to the house/garage using the existing RG-59 in-wall cabling. Reception is perfect with no weather related issues at all.
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post #25 of 34 Old 01-21-2014, 10:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks ProjectSHO89, I got KGO 7.1 and according to TV Fool KAXT RIGHT NEXT to it but i could not get it. I'll try to rotate the antenna again to see what happen.
DLe6
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KAXT transmits from the east side of the Bay, not from San Francisco. You probably need to rotate the antenna to the right to receive it.
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post #26 of 34 Old 01-21-2014, 11:17 AM
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Otto, what kind of antenna are you using. The DB2e I have is mainly a UHF antenna, but does have some VHF gain. I get zero signal for NBC. frown.gif I have previously got a signal with a small indoor antenna in the evergreen area, but I just need something simple to compliment my outdoor DB-2e now.
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post #27 of 34 Old 01-21-2014, 11:32 AM
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I use a 30 year old Winegard similar to the pic in post #4. The closest thing I could find was the CA-8100 model. 79 active UHF/VHF elements.
I might add that the antenna has a single RG-6 cable coming down from the top so I don't know how the UHF and VHF are combined into a single cable. I had a professional installer re-install it years ago when we had a metal roof installed. The single cable connects to a Signal Separator (to pull off the FM) underneath the eaves and then a single RG-6 cable runs underneath the eaves to the garage...
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post #28 of 34 Old 01-21-2014, 12:14 PM
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Ah very nice antenna! Thanks for the reply and info.
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post #29 of 34 Old 01-21-2014, 02:08 PM
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Yes, KAXT is more towards the North at 348 degrees, so you can try to split the difference between the 2 towers, say like approx. 330, and you might get lucky and be able to pick up both locations.

KAXT is channel 1? This is the first time I came across a channel 1 station. It could be possible maybe your tuner does not recognize channel 1. Try manually entering the actual channel which is 42.1.
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post #30 of 34 Old 01-21-2014, 02:55 PM
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^^^^ channel 1 has about 12 sub-channels and is mostly music, asian programming, and some other odd-ball stuff. 1-1 is sort of a tv-guide for the other channels.
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