Is it possible to do a "remote" OTA antenna over Wifi? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 38 Old 07-12-2014, 02:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Wireless from the Antenna to the TV?

Hi there.

I am working on installing an antenna in the attic. Running a TV line from the attic to the TV room will be a major PITA and will require lots of holes to be cut and drilled... assuming I can make it work. An even easier solution would be a wireless bridge from the antenna to the TV. I have been looking for such a product, but with no luck. Does such a thing exist?

Dan
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post #2 of 38 Old 07-12-2014, 03:39 PM
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Not that I'm aware of but maybe someone else has heard of such a device. HD OTA to WiFi doesn't sound easy.
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post #3 of 38 Old 07-12-2014, 05:35 PM
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No, it doesn't. The TV signals are wireless up until the antenna. From there, they must be in cables up to the tuner.

Now, if your have the networking savvy, you can use a network-based tuner via wifi to your viewing locations, but it's not for the novice.
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post #4 of 38 Old 07-12-2014, 05:38 PM
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I also haven't heard of such a device. It's funny that one can easily send ethernet over a power line, with adapters, but I've never seen such a thing for RF It's also possible to send HDMI wirelessly but again not that I'm aware of for RF.
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post #5 of 38 Old 07-12-2014, 06:09 PM
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To send JUST the UHF TV Band via some sort of upconverted RF signal would require 39 channels worth of Bandwidth or 234 MHz...and AT LEAST another 72 MHz for the other 12 channels....NOT gonna happen....it's called CABLE TV for a reason.

Suggest you check out the HD Homerun (Remote Tuner in the Attic) Thread on how to attach it to your Wi-Fi Network and how to Remotely Control it....
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post #6 of 38 Old 07-13-2014, 06:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChicagoDan View Post
... assuming I can make it work...
Ah, there's the key. Do you already know for a fact an attic antenna will work from your location? Have you tried ordinary rabbit ears at your set? Give us your TVFool link if you're not sure about this.

Attics are multipath nightmares. It's always better to go with a roof antenna. Then you can just run the line down the outside wall to your basement or living room.

I've installed a number of attic antennas and I'm usually able to find a return air plenum to drop a line down to a basement. If not, white coax is pretty easy to conceal running down the back corner of a closet. I did one for a friend, recently, whose entertainment system was against an inside wall. The other side was the guest bedroom closet. Antenna in the attic, DirecTV dish under an eave and an XM antenna on the opposite side of the house over the garage. routed all three down through a corner of the closet and through the wall to the entertainment center. It's all neatly done, but black coax you can see unless you move some boxes and clothing. But it's all about priorities. As he said, "The closet door closes."

Walking the fine line between jaw-dropping and a plain ol' yawn.
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post #7 of 38 Old 07-13-2014, 08:34 AM
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There's also some wonderful stuff called "WireMold".
A strip of that in a corner, or use a piece of their wide "Home Theater Big Screen" duct right down the wall behind a big-screen TV (floor to ceiling), to get everything from the receivers, to the TV, to the antenna, to the speakers....all hidden in one nice duct.
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post #8 of 38 Old 07-13-2014, 09:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChicagoDan View Post
Hi there.

I am working on installing an antenna in the attic. Running a TV line from the attic to the TV room will be a major PITA and will require lots of holes to be cut and drilled... assuming I can make it work. An even easier solution would be a wireless bridge from the antenna to the TV. I have been looking for such a product, but with no luck. Does such a thing exist?

Dan
absolutely no product like that exists. have you tried just using rabbit ears on your tv rather than the attic antenna?
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post #9 of 38 Old 08-16-2014, 10:35 AM
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Is it possible to do a "remote" OTA antenna over Wifi?

Like so many others, I want to stop my cable TV service. Since I live in a rural area about 30-40 miles away from the regional antenna farm, I'm betting I'd have to put my antenna up in my attic peak (about 30 ft off the ground) and run a cable down to a distribution point.
Couldn't I eliminate that long run by putting a small computer, maybe a Mac Mini, up with the OTA hd antenna and then streaming the signal down to my Wifi point?
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post #10 of 38 Old 08-16-2014, 10:49 AM
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See
Wireless from the Antenna to the TV?
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post #11 of 38 Old 08-16-2014, 12:06 PM
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Attic temps are going to be very hard on electronics. I wouldn't advise it. Plus streaming uncompressed HD over wifi doesn't work very well. You really need to run a wire. Just run it on the outside of the house.

Also an antenna in the attic doesn't work nearly as good as one outside.
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post #12 of 38 Old 08-16-2014, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdavej View Post
Attic temps are going to be very hard on electronics. I wouldn't advise it. Plus streaming uncompressed HD over wifi doesn't work very well. You really need to run a wire. Just run it on the outside of the house.
The attic temps aren't bad. My entire roof is insulated with Icynene to a depth of 8 inches, so the attic is under 100 degrees even in the worst days of summer. The Icynene is also the reason I won't do a roof mount antenna, which means no wire running outside either.

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Originally Posted by mdavej View Post
Also an antenna in the attic doesn't work nearly as good as one outside.
Things must have changed. In the days of MATV, we used to install VHF/UHF/FM antennas in attics, hanging upside-down from a truss. The picture was no different than an outside antenna with the added benefit of zero wind load. Why would it be different for an HD antenna? The frequencies haven't changed, just the encoding, right?

Right now I'm using an ancient 30 year-old Terk/Parsec FM antenna, which is sitting on the shelf behind the TV. With close to 20 feet of house and an iron-reinforced block wall between the antenna and the broadcast signal, on the dozen or so stations we can pull in the picture is excellent. That antenna was designed specifically to bring in FM, which is around channel 7 on the old VHF dial, so I would think that a full OTA antenna with a signal amplifier, mounted in the attic, would be ideal.

Last edited by Ellis Sevin; 08-16-2014 at 03:37 PM.
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post #13 of 38 Old 08-16-2014, 04:15 PM
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I have a HDHomerun Dual connected to my main router, then to a wireless repeater which feeds my living room devices. It does work pretty well, except when we game while both tuners are in use. The picture pixellates, and the games get really laggy due to the network congestion on my wireless lan, but your mileage may vary with todays high speed, high bandwidth wireless routers available, and also playing with QoS. Give it a try
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post #14 of 38 Old 08-16-2014, 04:19 PM
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Oops, forgot to say; what he means by an attic antenna not performing as well, is that there is major loss in signal strength and quality due to the losses incurred by the roofing materials, metal objects, and reflections (multi-path). That may not mean much if you have nearby high strength stations and no multi path
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post #15 of 38 Old 08-17-2014, 06:21 AM
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Yep. If attic antenna worked before, it will continue to work fine. Doesn't work very well at all for me compared to outside. All my insulation is on the ceiling, not the roof, so my attic gets 140+ in the summer and really cold in the winter. Any electronics would be completely fried by June. An attic like yours is out of the ordinary.

Sounds like your plan might work if you have really fast, reliable wifi. Just connect your Homerun to an access point of some kind. They run about $25 on Amazon. Each TV would then connect to media center or direct to the Homerun via DLNA. Even 100 is warm for a tuner though. I'd slap a laptop fan on it at least.

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post #16 of 38 Old 08-17-2014, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Don_H View Post
I have a HDHomerun Dual connected to my main router, then to a wireless repeater which feeds my living room devices. It does work pretty well, except when we game while both tuners are in use.
I did a bit of reading on that HDHome Dual you mentioned, and from what I can tell its basically two tuners in a box, with the ability to stream the signal over a wired connection, right?
That seems like it would work for me, because I was previously going to buy an El Gato, Pinnacle or Hauppage USB tuner for the Mac, but it seems like they've all been discontinued. (Probably everyone quit buying them because they seem to think there's going to be an Apple-branded TV set soon.) Each of those cost around $70-80, so $129 for a dual tuner is a pretty good deal.

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The picture pixellates, and the games get really laggy due to the network congestion on my wireless lan, but your mileage may vary with todays high speed, high bandwidth wireless routers available, and also playing with QoS. Give it a try
We have no game consoles or anything like that. The lone wireless media piece is an AppleTV, and it shares an Airport Express with my Mac, so I probably won't have to prioritize any streams. Everything else is wired, including the TV and BR.

My current setup is the cable running into a splitter, with the TV side going to a Samsung DVR, and the data going to a Surfboard cable modem/router with the wireless "feature" disabled. I pull a wired connection from that to my Airport, and that deals with the Mac and the AppleTV. Any wireless antenna setup I use will need to work with the Airport. Everything is located centrally in the media room. I have no media devices anywhere else in the house.

So... if I'm reading your post right - and I'd like to think I am - I need the tuner box, an antenna, and some way of linking the tuned signal from the Homerun to my downstairs access point. Maybe another Airport?
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post #17 of 38 Old 08-17-2014, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by mdavej View Post
Yep. If attic antenna worked before, it will continue to work fine. Doesn't work very well at all for me compared to outside. All my insulation is on the ceiling, not the roof, so my attic gets 140+ in the summer and really cold in the winter. Any electronics would be completely fried by June. An attic like yours is out of the ordinary.
Should I mention I have a dark brown roof, and I'm in the deeeeep south too?

You have got to check out Icynene. Not to shill for them, but that has been the most amazing thing added to my house. Whats funny is that the only reason the attic is over 100 degrees at all is because my top floor isn't finished, so I'm not running the air up there. When an attic is sealed with Icynene, it will only get about 6-10 degrees hotter than the floor immediately below it. When I finally get that nightmare done, it'll be cooled to 78, and the attic will be in the mid 80s.
The stuff is totally non-toxic too.
The only drawback, if you want to call it that, is that you have to have a sealed roof system. No ridge or eave venting, no outside air transfer of any kind. Any moisture that gets in there will dissolve the Icynene. Thats why I can't mount an antenna on the roof. The risk of breaking the building envelope with screws or nails just for an antenna, and destroying $5k of insulation, is too great.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdavej View Post
Sounds like your plan might work if you have really fast, reliable wifi. Just connect your Homerun to an access point of some kind. They run about $25 on Amazon. Each TV would then connect to media center or direct to the Homerun via DLNA. Even 100 is warm for a tuner though. I'd slap a laptop fan on it at least.
If you have any links to an access point for that price, post them up. I'm also thinking about getting the new Airport Extreme and moving the current Express upstairs to use as a link with the antenna.

Last edited by Ellis Sevin; 08-17-2014 at 11:58 AM.
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post #18 of 38 Old 08-17-2014, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by holl_ands View Post
Suggest you check out the HD Homerun (Remote Tuner in the Attic) Thread on how to attach it to your Wi-Fi Network and how to Remotely Control it....
I've searched for that thread and found nothing. Please post a link.
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post #19 of 38 Old 08-17-2014, 12:44 PM
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Hi, Ellis. Yes, the HDHomeRun unit would connect to your lan hardwired, then from that point it can present two tuners anywhere on your lan, including repeaters, or any bridged network devices. You can also use multiple HDHomeRun units if you plan on using more than two channels at one time.

Sounds like you may have the same modem I do (SBG6850). Great modem/router combo's. I have NAT disabled (3 public ip's/3 separate home networks) and I have to use them or lose 'em).

Mine worked just fine with the Airport Extreme, and Airport Express setup (your's will too), but I went back to using a router that supported UPnP, for gaming.
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post #20 of 38 Old 08-17-2014, 12:54 PM
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The cheap router/repeater combo that I've been using with my HDHR are the Rosewill RNX-N300RT, and Encore ENHWI-2AN3, but just about anything will work.

Router: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16833166072
Repeater: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16833180062
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post #21 of 38 Old 08-17-2014, 02:53 PM
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If you really want to go through all this hassle to save running $5.00 worth of Coax......Here's the tuner you ought use (it encodes to H.264 to save needed bandwidth): http://www.silicondust.com/products/...run/hdhomerun/
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post #22 of 38 Old 08-17-2014, 03:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellis Sevin View Post
Should I mention I have a dark brown roof, and I'm in the deeeeep south too?
I'm in NW Houston and 35+ miles away from the broadcast stations. I use a $40 antenna in my attic with a radiant barrier on the roof deck and still get a pretty good signal. I did run the coax into the living room to a HDHomerun. I recorded the Texans game last night and watched it today. No problems whatsoever w/ the signal. I'm "watching" golf on CBS right now (okay, it's just background noise, but it is on) and there is no static/digital breakup. Crystal clear.
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post #23 of 38 Old 08-17-2014, 03:22 PM
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What antenna did you settle on? I'm looking at the Antennacraft HBU22, which has been getting great reviews in my area. The price is great too - about $35. I might be able to save a few more bucks going through one of my wholesalers.
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post #24 of 38 Old 08-17-2014, 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted by olyteddy View Post
If you really want to go through all this hassle to save running $5.00 worth of Coax......Here's the tuner you ought use (it encodes to H.264 to save needed bandwidth): http://www.silicondust.com/products/...run/hdhomerun/
Its not to save $5 of coax. In fact I get coax and Cat5e for free. I have spools of the stuff around here. I could probably weave my own antenna out of the stuff and staple it to the trusses.
What I'm trying to save is the effort of running coax through my attic, down walls, and punching more holes through drywall. Why bother, when I can attic mount my antenna, and right next to the antenna I have a 110 2-gang outlet where I can add some gear?

Now why should I get the HomeRun Plus vs the HomeRun Dual? Their site is so full of nonsense that I have no idea of the difference between the two.
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post #25 of 38 Old 08-17-2014, 03:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don_H View Post
Hi, Ellis. Yes, the HDHomeRun unit would connect to your lan hardwired, then from that point it can present two tuners anywhere on your lan, including repeaters, or any bridged network devices. You can also use multiple HDHomeRun units if you plan on using more than two channels at one time.

Sounds like you may have the same modem I do (SBG6850). Great modem/router combo's. I have NAT disabled (3 public ip's/3 separate home networks) and I have to use them or lose 'em).

Mine worked just fine with the Airport Extreme, and Airport Express setup (your's will too), but I went back to using a router that supported UPnP, for gaming.
Yes, thats the modem I have. It works flawlessly, unlike the previous Cisco. I have the wireless connection disabled for security purposes, preferring the Airport to act as the NAT and security, since its so easy to configure.

I checked on that Encore you mentioned, looks like its discontinued. I'll probably just get the Extreme and move the Express up to the attic, like I mentioned. Hopefully that will work.
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post #26 of 38 Old 08-17-2014, 03:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellis Sevin View Post
Now why should I get the HomeRun Plus vs the HomeRun Dual? Their site is so full of nonsense that I have no idea of the difference between the two.
http://www.silicondust.com/wordpress...uide4_2014.pdf

The Plus is HD. Agreed on the website, not very well designed.
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post #27 of 38 Old 08-17-2014, 04:12 PM
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Originally Posted by JustaSheep View Post
?? According to the data on the Dual page, it passes 1080 to the network. Or am I not reading this stuff right?


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Originally Posted by JustaSheep View Post
Agreed on the website, not very well designed.

Yeah, at the top of the HomeRun Plus page, it reads "Watch Steaming TV Anywhere"
I think that tells me everything I need to know right there
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post #28 of 38 Old 08-17-2014, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Ellis Sevin View Post
?? According to the data on the Dual page, it passes 1080 to the network. Or am I not reading this stuff right?
Here's a better explanation. You are right, they are both HD. But, the plus transcodes to a leaner signal, especially helpful if you plan to use it over wifi.

http://www.silicondust.com/forum2/vi...p?f=68&t=17262
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post #29 of 38 Old 08-17-2014, 04:26 PM
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Excellent. Thanks!
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post #30 of 38 Old 08-17-2014, 04:48 PM
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That should all go really smooth for you, Ellis. Just hook it all up, run the hdhomerun setup sw, and scan for channels. The only other thing I had to do was answer the firewall prompts for Windows Media Center to allow access.
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