Information regarding Samsung TS-160 issues. - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 2402 Old 10-18-2002, 01:44 PM
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From the couple minutes I was able to talk to Samsung about the "red push", they said they identified it, and for some reason they do NOT see it at all on a SAMSUNG TV, but they do see it when attached to other TVs. Why I do not know, but they can always just make sure all other TVs look like their own brand when connected to the TS160 :)

At the same time, I hope the chroma issue corrects the graininess that I have verified somehow ends up in the image displayed by the 160.

Rees - any chance he wants to drive to my house to implement these fixes? :)

-Chris
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post #92 of 2402 Old 10-18-2002, 04:02 PM
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Possible older HDTV STB Samsung affliction -
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hreadid=181036

Is it still present? Did anyone have similar problems on a 160?
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post #93 of 2402 Old 10-18-2002, 09:15 PM
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We received a 160 at the Best Buy I work at today and I fired it up for OTA using a Sony KV-57WS500 as the display using the supplied DVI cable and analog audio. I conform the "red" push as well as slightly higher than expected chroma noise. One good thing is with a simple RCA powered set top antenna I was able to pull in all available local OTA digital stations with much higher stength than a Hughes E-86 we use as a demo.

one note, kinda cheezy front end with no panel display except for a red light. Two panel inserts obviously could possibly be used as a function display on a later/different model??

Dave
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post #94 of 2402 Old 10-19-2002, 01:28 AM
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So the T-160 only has a problem with OTA signals? Can anyone comment on how well it works with DirectTV?

By the way, in 1999 when I got my RCA HDTV with integrated receiver (PS61000), RCA sent their head of field service to my house twice to attend to problems that turned out to be issues with PSIP that ws being sent from OTA digital stations. They then made trips to the stations in NY city and set them up with free DTC-100's so they could make sure their output signals were DTC-100 compatible which might explain the sucess of the DTC-100 today!
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post #95 of 2402 Old 10-19-2002, 06:26 AM
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hdtvpioneer533H -
Do you think the higher chroma noise might be able to be fixed or would be fixed as a result of the red-push fix? I know when my Mits had red push EVERYTHING looked like it was "blooming" which pretty much washed out any fine detail (like blemishes on a persons face). And when looking at things on the Samsung if the color is set to normal on my TV (and even if I lower it to try to alleviate some of the red push) I lose that fine detail. If the red push fix would get it back Id be a happy camper.

Thanks!!!
-Chris
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post #96 of 2402 Old 10-19-2002, 07:14 AM
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New problem found yesterday. When I got home from work I was having audio problems with all analog stations. Starz and HBO that are broadcasting in dolby digital were working just fine. However, I had no sound on all the other stations on direct-tv. My reciever was working fine I plugged in the DVD player into DTV input just to test it and no problem. The reciever was just not getting a signal from the samsung. I first tried turning unit off and on multiplte times but no change. When I finally unplugged unit from wall and plugged it back in it fixed the problem. This was the first time this has happened and I have been using unit for about 2.5 weeks now. Note I had left it one channel 509 overnight and simply turned off TV and reciever. I thought I post this to give this to the engineer to investigate. Thanks for getting these issues adressed by the enigneers.

Also when do they feel the caller ID information will be listed on the screen the phone is ok but not near as good as seeing the name on the screen. Also ask him about being able to assign names to numbers in the call list similar to how cell phones pull the names from phonebook if it matches the number.
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post #97 of 2402 Old 10-19-2002, 07:53 AM - Thread Starter
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has anyone had the problem Reveille noted above?

Also, Samsung has indicated they will look into Name Caller ID. But, you must admit, that issue is lower on the priority of some of the others listed at the beginning of this topic.

Thanks for your post Reveille. If anyone has had the same issue please give us a heads up.

Rees
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post #98 of 2402 Old 10-19-2002, 02:02 PM
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Rees: Any "work arounds" on the "lock-up" issue? Mine just started doing it last night after 1 week of use. When I go to a OTA station, then try to change channels again. I get no picture - no sound - have to unplug TS160, it retrieves Guide and then picture and sound come back on - bummer. Would appreciate any suggestions on how to work around it until they send down new software... I called Samsung support - no help there -- he said, "set top boxes are a mystery, wouldn't be anybody until Monday to help"

Thanks...

but I had a magic box, so what do I know?...
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post #99 of 2402 Old 10-19-2002, 03:43 PM - Thread Starter
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More GREAT NEWS!!

Samsung engineer was here today again. He brought along another development TS-160 which was configured with a lower chroma (color) level. Hooked it up and lo and behold the color levels look just like the ATSC color levels of the tuner built in to my Sony KD-34XBR2. It looked great. Success achieved again!

A few things to share on the human side. The Samsung engineer, who spoke little english was very professional. He was kind, dedicated and you could tell, very intelligent. A really nice guy to work with, as well. Many times we talked to the Sr Mgr at California via phone to translate between Korean and English. It really worked well that way too. Tomorrow he goes back to Korea on big silver bird. I actually will miss him. I wish I could have talked to him more and learned just a tiny bit more about this new exciting technology we are all getting into.

So, now let us recap what has been done in a week's time.

Referencing the first posting:

1) The loss of video and audio when changing channels has been identified. It is a function of PSIP information the broadcasters send. The more they change it the more the problem occurs.

2) Chroma (color) levels have been adjusted in a development unit and tested here. It was very good looking. I saw little grain.

3) The "insert valid access card" is still being investigated because many here have reported it. It is a difficult one to resolve and may not be a TS-160 issue. Samsung is working with Directv. Other company boxes have also been known to have the same issue.

4) Within 48 hours of identifying that TIVO units could not be configured with TS-160's, Samsung provided the Infra-red codes to TIVO. The following day I was able to select the menu item and it has been working great ever since.

The other 2 issues are still being looked into.

I would call this past week a success already.

We now need to wait until about Wednesday or Thursday for discussions with Directv to occur. I will be kept in the loop and will provide you with updates here.

-----------

Reveille:

Your issue has been relayed to Samsung because there have been other similiar issues noted in this topic already. They are looking into it.

-----------

DLB:

There are no work arounds concerning the lock-up issue except to say that by limiting your use to Directv will obviously limit your exposure to the OTA PSIP data which is causing the problem. You can take it from there. For me it might be the first OTA channel I switch to or it can last all day. Again, it depends on the data being broadcast from your local stations.

Everyone:

This has certainly been a good experience for me. You contact Samsung, they understand the need for communicating the proper information to the right people, they respond with knowledgeable, swift and dedicated support. You can imagine how I will vote my dollars for future product purchases.

By the way, maybe I should tell everyone that I am but a joe blow consumer. Yes, maybe with a bit more background in this because of my broadcast engineering/computer background. I do not work for Samsung, did not have any incentive to contact them other than thinking that if I were able to get to the right people these problems could be solved. I really saw in this product the right mix of features that the "other" box(s) would not provide for me. It was worth going to bat for it...hoping for a win-win. I think this will become part of customer support history. In a reasonable time period everyone will be able to get their updates via Directv.

Thanks Samsung.

Rees
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post #100 of 2402 Old 10-19-2002, 04:01 PM
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Rees, when the updates are made available for download from DirecTV, will we have to request them? Or will they be sent automatically?

Tom
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post #101 of 2402 Old 10-19-2002, 04:10 PM
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Rees: Thanks for the update. I just deleted the OTA channels from the guide - that way I won't be tempted to test the bug every time! Hope Samsung and D* focus on getting a quick software revision down-linked - I'll be watching the status on the upgrade menu...

Thanks for all the good work and thank Samsung for at least responding so fast...

Dave B.

but I had a magic box, so what do I know?...
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post #102 of 2402 Old 10-19-2002, 06:36 PM
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Rees -
As always, good work!!!

So you say some of the grain disappeared after the chroma fix? Did the image regain some lost detail from before? If so, I think the Samsung is the box to have............at least they have proven they are willing to investigate and fix issues.

-Chris
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post #103 of 2402 Old 10-19-2002, 06:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Tom Roper:

I actually don't know. Haven't gotten that far. Maybe someone else who has had experience with Directv upgrades could help.

Rees
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post #104 of 2402 Old 10-19-2002, 06:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by chrisexv6
So you say some of the grain disappeared after the chroma fix? Did the image regain some lost detail from before? If so, I think the Samsung is the box to have............at least they have proven they are willing to investigate and fix issues.
The video was very clean for me. I saw no grain at all. It was a magical HD image. I'm keeping the TS-160.

Rees
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post #105 of 2402 Old 10-19-2002, 08:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by ReesR
More GREAT NEWS!!

In a reasonable time period everyone will be able to get their updates via Directv.

Thanks Samsung.
Are these problems unique to the TS-160 or present in the SIR-T165 also?
If these problems are present in the SIR-T165 then how will these units be updated?

Newton
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post #106 of 2402 Old 10-19-2002, 08:22 PM
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One of the most brilliant things about satellite TV is that firmware upgrades can be sent seamlessly over the airwaves with almost zero -- or completely zero -- user intervention. It'll be sent automatically. That's one of the reasons, though, that it takes so long. They are not going to put it out in the datastream without some serious QA. Perhaps this will get fast tracked, but normally it would take 2-3 months to run it out there.

BTW, it shocks me that Samsung would take this set-top box so seriously given their nonchalance -- in my opinion -- regarding their new DLP TVs. Weird resource allocation, but great news overall because certainly on specs this is a set-top box that was so eagerly anticipated, many of you are taking all the arrows so I can wait for a more perfect one before buying.

Thanks :)

mark

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #107 of 2402 Old 10-19-2002, 09:10 PM - Thread Starter
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rogo and everyone:

Yes, I was eagerly waiting for the 160 as well. My efforts were self motivated however. I learned long ago to get results in areas that I wanted sometimes take efforts which benefit the masses. But I don't see anything wrong with that. When you combine efforts like this with a company which wants to assure customer satisfaction and people who get involved in the process then you are bound to get that "win-win" senario I always talk about.

Samsung can't really be blamed for the technical issues on this one gang. How could anyone predict data stream compatability with broadcasters across the whole span of the country? There are going to be advances in the digital experience which we all will evolve with. Even the way this box, or any box, will look on every TV is not an exact science. But shortly, we will see the fruits of this effort we have been following. This box simply will have the best features that most will enjoy, IMHO.

In the end, we will win, Samsung will win and future products will even be better because we all participated.

Rees
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post #108 of 2402 Old 10-19-2002, 09:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Newt:

165 issues are simply not mine to tackle. hehe Someone else's turn.

Rees
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post #109 of 2402 Old 10-19-2002, 10:08 PM
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Oh - I turned on my family room HDTV which now has the Samsung HD Receiver, only to find many new added channels in the channel guides I had programmed. Again, the Toshiba DST-3000 once upon a time, but no longer thanks to software upgrade, had this same exact problem. This should be an easy one for Samsung to cure.

"Doug Winsor" used to troll at some AV Forums as "Steve Bruzonsky"! My home theater at:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1158431
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post #110 of 2402 Old 10-20-2002, 08:13 PM
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For quick future reference, I have put a link to this topic in 'The Official AVS HDTV Forum STB Synopsis' stuck at the top of the HDTV Hardware forum. It can be found under the Samsung 160 listing.

'Better Living Through Modern, Expensive, Electronic Devices'

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post #111 of 2402 Old 10-20-2002, 09:41 PM
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This is where I beg to differ. The way it should work, especially in over 3 years since DirecTV started licensing HD boxes, was that any time a receiver is upgraded to deal with datastream irregularities or any other bug introduced by satellite or OTA data, DirecTV adds the fix to a database accessible to all manufacturers. And they don't get licensed to make a box until they add all the documented fixes into their own boxes.

There have always been glitches in the way the local stations send PSIP data. Nothing new there. If DirecTV doesn't enforce the above, then at least design the box to not freak on PSIP data weirdness or corruption.

Don't get me wrong, I think it is great they arbitrarily sent an engineer to your house, but what about the other hundreds of DMAs? Or the next set of glitches that will be missed by this firmware fix because they don't do a real beta test.

The whole Samsung DLP TV rollout was interesting the same way. You had one person in particular who was pretty negative about the set passing info on to this forum, and he had more information directly from Samsung than a retailer that had orders for 200+ sets. If you are going to take the time to do a "soft" roll-out anyway (which is basically what the 160 rollout is turning out to be), get a group of dedicated, accountable for feedback testers and have them sign an NDA.

Just not the way to do business. Maybe this isn't a concept the foreign companies have grasped.

Quote:
Originally posted by ReesR
Samsung can't really be blamed for the technical issues on this one gang. How could anyone predict data stream compatability with broadcasters across the whole span of the country?

Matt
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post #112 of 2402 Old 10-20-2002, 11:26 PM
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Rees
Thanks for all the leg work and information on this box. I have been watching this box and the Sony closely to see which box I want to get. I have a Pioneer 720 and am interested in using the RGB input but have read in this thread and others of the Samsung not working on the Elites RGB inputs.

Have you brought up this issue in your discussions with Samsung and has Samsung had any comments on this subject?

Has anybody been sucessful in getting the RGB input to work on a Pioneer Elite?

Thanks
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post #113 of 2402 Old 10-21-2002, 09:55 PM
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I have been tracking this thread with the same interest as Gobucks100. I have a Pioneer SD533HD5 rather than an Elite. I am assuming that Pioneer most likely has the same RGB interface, Elite or not, since both sets were available in the same time frame. Is this a good assumption??

Second question - many folks have highlighted s-video being always on with the Sammy. With a DirecTivo, this doesn't appear to be any advantage as their is no way to use this as a input to the D'TIVO. If I don't have a stand alone TIVO, this doesn't appear to be an advantage. Am I understanding the environment correctly?

Thanks.
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post #114 of 2402 Old 10-22-2002, 04:56 AM
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I have the same situation. A Direct Tivo... my idea is to leave the Tivo hooked up to it's own Sat inputs so it can continue recording as always and use the T160 for HD programming. A little redundant but I've gotten used to having the dual Tuners in the Direct TIvo recording while I'm watching another program. I'd have a hard time giving that up...

Back to you question. The S-Video always being on is no advantage with Direct Tivo and a T160.

I have a Samsung 507 and I'm getting my T160 this week. I'm looking forward to see how they work together and if I will see an improvement in my Direct Satellite picture because of the T160 and DVI interface. I'm not thrilled on how the direct TV looks on my new screen. Seems that the local channels over the air look better than the same channels over Direct TV.

It's never good enough !!!
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post #115 of 2402 Old 10-22-2002, 08:14 AM
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Because of over-compression, I doubt this will change. If you're using the capabilities of the DirecTivo while watching locals, you'll probably just put up with it. If not, you will probably be watching the ATSC version of your local stations eventually if not now anyway--and those should blow DirecTV out of the water, HD or not . . .

Quote:
Originally posted by twisted_vista
Seems that the local channels over the air look better than the same channels over Direct TV.

Matt
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post #116 of 2402 Old 10-22-2002, 09:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by turls
Because of over-compression, I doubt this will change. If you're using the capabilities of the DirecTivo while watching locals, you'll probably just put up with it. If not, you will probably be watching the ATSC version of your local stations eventually if not now anyway--and those should blow DirecTV out of the water, HD or not . . .
Matt, That's what I was afraid of... I'll know in a few days and I'll post the results.

We sure do use all the capabilities of our Direct TIvo, I modified it to record 127 hours of programs and we record programs for my daughter, sons, my wife and I and we have room to spare to archive a few movies as well. I can't wait til storage technologies catch up with HDTV recording needs. To get that kind of storage with HDTV I estimate you'll need 10 times the space which equals two 500 gigabyte drives... I think we are a ways off an affordable PVR solution for HDTV...

Michael

It's never good enough !!!
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post #117 of 2402 Old 10-22-2002, 10:02 AM
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DVHS is here and now for recording HDTV, but you need firewire. Stopgap...

Tom
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post #118 of 2402 Old 10-22-2002, 11:03 AM
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I just ordered a TS160. What is the verdict on the VGA output? Is it fully functional - or are there issues? I'm just wondering if I need an adapter and to use component.
I also ordered a directivo. My plan is the replace my standalone bedroom tivo with the directivo, and move the standalone to the room with the ts160, and have it sucking off the always-on svid (and simple stereo audio, I assume.) That is another thing nobody has mentioned - I expect stereo is the best I'm going to be able to do with tivo here, since the input only has that option. So any timeline on getting those latest fixes into the datastream?
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post #119 of 2402 Old 10-22-2002, 01:51 PM
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From what I read, we are very lucky that the integrated DirecTV/Tivo boxes let us record the DD stream, and there is no way you are going to see that in a standalone box anytime soon probably.

Hollywood is pretty proud of that digital audio.

Quote:
Originally posted by papyrus
I also ordered a directivo. My plan is the replace my standalone bedroom tivo with the directivo, and move the standalone to the room with the ts160, and have it sucking off the always-on svid (and simple stereo audio, I assume.) That is another thing nobody has mentioned - I expect stereo is the best I'm going to be able to do with tivo here, since the input only has that option.

Matt
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post #120 of 2402 Old 10-22-2002, 03:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by papyrus
So any timeline on getting those latest fixes into the datastream?
Samsung is currently in conversations with Directv. The earliest I will hear anything on the subject will be either Wednesday or Thursday. Remember, Directv wants to limit these kind of datastreams. So, there is pressure on any manufacturer to have all fixes in place when the update occurs.

Stay tuned.

Rees
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