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Ann Arbor, MI: I need an indoor antenna for a VHF channel 30 miles away

2K views 10 replies 5 participants last post by  ProjectSHO89 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
I can't post links, so you're going to have to google the names I give

Hello,

currently I have this wineguard antenna (Winegard FL5500A FlatWave Amplified Razor Thin HDTV Indoor Antenna) (I paid $20 for it), and at 30 miles I can pick up a lot of the UHF channels, (ABC, CBS, and NBC specifically, not sure about the rest but I believe I couldn't pick up the 40+ mile stations.) I can't pickup FOX though, because it is VHF.

The channel I'm trying to pickup is FOX, located 29.16 miles away at 63.88°, VHF with a power of 11.15 kW. I can currently pick up this channel at 8 miles away easily with my current antenna while back home for winter break.

From another thread from years ago someone suggested (Terk Low-Profile Indoor Antenna TV5 (Discontinued by Manufacturer), what do you think?

I was thinking of this antenna from monoprice (HDTV Indoor / Outdoor Antenna w/ Low Noise Amplifier), but honestly I have no idea about this stuff.

Any suggestions?

EDIT:

LOCATION: ANN ARBOR, MI

TV Fool Report http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id=2c1580a3ff3427
 
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#2 ·
Antenna reception is location dependent. Post an edited (non) link to your plot, we'll reassemble it so it can be used.

You haven't provided enough information to make any sort of valid assessment except that all of the antennas you mentioned are likely to be inadequate or ineffective. At 30 miles, a 11 kW VHF signal isn't very likely to be received with an indoor antenna.
 
#3 ·
Indoor Antenna Comparison Tests are summarized in this thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/25-hd...hdtv-need-better-stronger-antenna-signal.html
Since you need Hi-VHF Channels, many Indoor Antennas are NOT suited for you (e.g. W-G Flatwave)....and many of those that DO claim to cover Hi-VHF Band have relatively LOW Gain and HIGH SWR (e.g. WallTenna and similar, highly rated Mohu Leaf and it's derivatives).

Fol. are Commercial Indoor Antennas that cover BOTH Hi-VHF and UHF Band, listed in (my) preference order:
WallTenna (2-Bay Bowtie, transparent for mounting in a Window)
Mohu Leaf 50, Amplified Leaf Plus, Ultimate, Sky/Sky 50 and it's derivatives (e.g. Amazon Basics Sky50)
Winegard FDTV2A Flat Panel with Removable Amplifier
RCA 1450B Flat Panel
Terk HDTVi and amplified HDTVa
VHF Rabbit-Ears + UHF Loop amplified or not

And as I commented in that thread...if you STILL need something "better" consider mounting/hiding an OUTDOOR Antenna....or consider a DIY Project, such as a SIMPLE Hourglass-Loop, Quad-Trap-Loop, M4 or FF4 4-Bay Bowtie, G-H (see nikiml's antenna Optimization website) and others found in the "ANTENNA SIMULATIONS" link below....although SOME provide "adequate" Hi-VHF Raw Gain along with Good UHF performance...in difficult situations, you might need SEPARATE, OPTIMIZED Hi-VHF (or Lo+Hi-VHF) and UHF Antennas...and a VHF/UHF Combiner device (aka UVSJ).
 
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#4 ·
In your case, you might want to start with the Winegard FL5500A FlatWave Amplified Antenna and try adding a DIY Hi-VHF Hourglass-Loop, using a VHF/UHF Combiner (Antennas-Direct, Radio-Shack) or UVSJ (Pico-Macom, Hollands) or ZUVSJ (Blonder-Tongue) to sum them together:
http://imageevent.com/holl_ands/loops/hivhfhourglassloop
It's extremely simple to construct, essentially a loop of wire on a frame of your choice....
 
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#5 ·
Thanks for all your links, I've added the TVFool report and my location also.

I can't get an outdoor antenna because I'm in an apartment, I don't mind getting something large for indoor use as long as the depth isn't big, i.e. it can be 5ft x 5ft as long as the depth is < 1 ft.

I'm thinking the hourglass loop might be the best, but I'm a bit unsure on what to do exactly. What should I use for the material? A coat hanger/ Where do the balun connect to?
 
#8 · (Edited)
Balun connects in place of the SIMULATED SOURCE WIRE, indicated by a small Red Circle....it's usually in the Geometric CENTER of an Antenna, so everything is SYMMETRIC.

Hourglass-Loop is one of the VERY FEW Antennas that is fairly insensitive to choice of Wire Size. Hi-VHF Band Antennas are TOO big for Coat Hangers....I recommend using RG-59 (NOT RG-6, shield is too flimsy) or 50-ohm RG-58 used for Ham Radio, where the 1/4-in O.D. BRAIDED SHIELD is used as the Active Element (doesn't matter whether center conductor is connected or NOT). May be found by-the-foot at Home Supply stores for under $0.30/ft or on-line for less (depending on the chosen Antenna, you need as much as 100-ft, fol. is $0.22/ft) [Be careful to avoid FAKE RG-59 that actually uses mylar foil and wimpy RG-6 type shield wires]:
http://www.amazon.com/JSC-Wire-Copper-Shield-Cable/dp/B0002ZPGYI/ref=sr_1_cc_3?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1420226509&sr=1-3-catcorr&keywords=RG59%2FU+95%25+Braid+Shield+100+Feet

You can also use AWG12 or AWG10 Solid Copper Wires (or Aluminum where available), typically sold as either "THHN" single wire with insulation (should use SOLID, although rare compared to Stranded Wire "THHN") or (a much better bargain) "NM-B" Romex which contains THREE (or FOUR) Solid Wires of the SAME size...so 10/2 type actually has 3 AWG10 size Wires (and 10/3 has 4 AWG10 size wires) after cutting off the outer insulation. [In Canada, "NM-D" Romex has next smaller wire size for Safety Ground.] So fol. works out to about $0.30/ft..and a bit less IF you can find a 25-ft (or 35-ft) Roll on-line and make up the not quite 4 foot difference (for 12 Reflector Rods) with a local by-the-foot order [be sure to refine these estimates after you decide WHICH version you want to build]:
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Southwir...al-Wire-Orange-By-the-Foot-28829099/204724934

Compare to fol. more expensive Bare Solid AWG10 I found on Amazon...which has to be carefully UNFOLDED from the tightly wrapped spool:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0051X4DGI/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Some people find it's easier to work with thicker WELDING RODS (could be Aluminum) for the Reflector Rods.
If you look around AVS Forum for "DIY" Antenna Project reports, you'll find many similar Grey-Hoverman, 4-Bay Bowtie and other DIY Antennas for inspiration. Also check out the Canadian Forum, starting with the DIY Antenna "Sticky" Tread near the top:
http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=186

And it's always better if you happen to run across something for FREE....although personally I would avoid salvage yards where it looks like RG-59 Cable Coax has been ripped out of demolished walls (possibly mouse & insect infected).
 
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#9 ·
Getting reliable VHF reception with an indoor antenna at a distance of 30 miles could be difficult.

The following link shows the channels and subchannels for the Detroit market.
http://www.rabbitears.info/market.php?request=station_search&callsign=wjbk#station

WJBK (virtual channel 2) is the only station that is operating on a VHF frequency (RF7). When conditions are just right, you might be able to get UHF station WUPW (virtual 36) out of Toledo on RF 46.

The local HDTV reception thread could give you some insight into how others are faring in getting WJBK.
 
#10 ·
Well just a quick update, I don't know what happened, but after scanning for more channels again it seems like I picked up WJBK with the same antenna. I thought that maybe they switched to UHF but if they did those antenna stations websites haven't updated yet.
 
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