I Have My Samsung Sir-t165 As Of Today!!! - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 782 Old 12-08-2002, 07:29 PM
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OK, I'm stumped! How does one tune the suffix number on the ST-165? i.e. 26-1 or 3-1 - the number after the hyphen. On my DTC100, I simply keep pressing numbers i.e the 2, followed by the 6, followed by the 1 - to get 26-1, and it goes to channel 26-1. Even if it is not in the memory. The Samsung can't seem to do this?

What if you want to go a particular channel (even if it is not in memory) and then play with the antenna to see if you can pull in that particular station? It doesn't appear to be possible.

Another aggravating thing is that the local NBC analog is on channel 3 in my market and their digital counterpart is 3-1. Yet if I press 0,3,1 it doesn't go there. It goes to channel 3 and then the 1 sends it to channel 1. If I press 3, it goes to the analog channel 3 (and shows that 3-1 is available in the upper right hand corner banner) but I must hit channel up once to get it to go to the digital channel 3-1.

Surely I'm missing something? I've read most of this thread but I don't recall anything specific to this. My apologies if it has been covered earlier.

Steve B, I too have a D-VHS 3000 and am looking forward to taping a little hi def. But first I got to get this 165 lined up and formated.

What kind of tapes are you using to record on the I link 1394? Have you tried multiple brands of tape?
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post #362 of 782 Old 12-08-2002, 09:06 PM - Thread Starter
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To avoid any potential problems, I've bought and only used JVC D-VHS tapes with my JVC D-VHS VCR.

As to digital channels, the 165 doesn't have a "-" button. You have to go into the menu, the channel search, and do the search and the 165 will go through all the channels and list them. Then you can go into the "Add" and "Delete" channels menu to delete those channels that you don't want.

"Doug Winsor" used to troll at some AV Forums as "Steve Bruzonsky"! My home theater at:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1158431
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post #363 of 782 Old 12-08-2002, 09:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Oh - and then you get to the channel simply by using the channel + or - button on the remote.

"Doug Winsor" used to troll at some AV Forums as "Steve Bruzonsky"! My home theater at:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1158431
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post #364 of 782 Old 12-09-2002, 10:21 AM
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"As to digital channels, the 165 doesn't have a "-" button. You have to go into the menu, the channel search, and do the search and the 165 will go through all the channels and list them"

"Oh - and then you get to the channel simply by using the channel + or - button on the remote."

Steve,
That's what I thought. Thanks for confirming that for me.

Boy this bites!

Even in the add part of the menu you can only add a main channel and not a sub channel. There is no way to add 10-1 (only "10") to check the signal strength, unless it is detected in the "auto scan/meorize channels " function.

Why is this only an issue to me and no one else? I can't believe others are hollering about this too.
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post #365 of 782 Old 12-09-2002, 12:05 PM
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Has anyone else noticed that this thing only records the subchannel you specify? That means that it will record FOX 480p stuff in STD mode instead of HS mode. Cool.

--Rick
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post #366 of 782 Old 12-09-2002, 12:09 PM
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"Tuning in" DTV channels means something quite different than tuning in analog channels.

DTV stations send out Virtual Channel Table (VCT) information as packets. The virtual channel is whatever the DTV station wants it to be. Since DTV stations are currently on different channels than their analog counterparts, the virtual channel is usually the same as the analog channel.

Example: WCAU in Philadephia transmits on analog channel 10, but sends its digital signal out on UHF channel 67. The packets of data that contain VCT information are broadcast repeatedly as part of the digital signal.

Your DTV tuner must first scan for and tune in UHF channel 67. Or, you can physically enter '67' on your tuner's remote to send it to that UHF channel.

Next, the tuner deciphers the digital packets to find out who the station is and what kinds of video and audio are being transmitted. It also needs to know the DTV station's major virtual channel (the first number) and how many minor channels (the second number) are being transmitted.

WCAU's VCT information identifies its major channel as "10" and its minor channel as "1", or 10-1 (some receivers show this as 10.1). The number "1" is the lowest minor channel number that is to be used under the ATSC standard. ("0" designates an analog channel).

Once the tuner has this information, it is stored in a buffer memory so that when you enter "10" on your remote, it will go to DTV virtual channel 10. That means is it still tuning in a 'real' UHF channel on 67, but showing you the 'virtual' channel number of 10.

In the case of dual-mode (DBS, 8VSB) or tri-mode tuners (DBS, 8VSB, analog), the tuner will go first to the analog channel if present and identify it as "10-0". Moving up one channel should bring you to the first available DBS or OTA digital channel. If an OTA digital channel, it wll identify as "10-1".

All of this info is stored in your tuner's memory and you can then go through the list of DTV stations it received and save or delete channels according to your preference.

Some tuners (like the Zenith DTV1080) let you select major and minor channel numbers, but I prefer to just jump to the major channel and then use the remote to step up or down to a desired minor channel.

So - there really isn't any issue to holler about. If your tuner has detected a digital channel and saved its info, it's pretty easy to step to it and then navigate the minor channels.

If more than one minor channel is being transmitted, the signal strength for any will be the same for all as these minor channels are merely different groups of data packets in the same transmission.

Think of them as being different tracks on a compact disc, and your channel changer as the "change tracks' function.

Pete Putman KT2B
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post #367 of 782 Old 12-09-2002, 12:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by ricka
Has anyone else noticed that this thing only records the subchannel you specify? That means that it will record FOX 480p stuff in STD mode instead of HS mode. Cool.

--Rick
Yes, a nice piece of engineering from Samsung that lets you record specific minor channels. The older Panasonic PV-HD1000 and its compatible tuners recorded all of the data on a given bitstream and you had to use the STB's channel up/down button to navigate to the bitstream you wanted.

The T165/JVC or even Mits or Panasonic D-VHS interface means you can record a specific bitstream and not have to change minor channels to get at it during playback.

The downside is that D-VHS tapes recorded with the all-Panasonic combo that contained two or more minor channels cannot be navigated when played back on the JVC/Samsung combo. The tuner goes to the highest minor channel number and that's all you see.

Pete Putman KT2B
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post #368 of 782 Old 12-09-2002, 12:58 PM
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Hello TAKKL: I have seen the same problem with my remote. I am trying to use it on a Panasonic 27 inch TV. No volume or Mute. Channel up down and power on off works. Tried all of the panasonic codes. Looks like we will have to use something else. I do not think Samsung will fix it.
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post #369 of 782 Old 12-09-2002, 01:59 PM
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On the 165, you can 'test' to see if you can receive other digital channels by simply manually entering the channel number of the actual UHF channel assignment. The STB will the automattically do the remap. So, there is no need to enter 12-1 if you now that the 'real' channel is 59, just enter 59 and it will turn into 12-1, 12-3, etc

Mike
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post #370 of 782 Old 12-09-2002, 02:28 PM
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I was just about to write what mjones just said above -- he/she's right.

In DC, the channel line-up is:
WRC NBC: 48, but displays as 4 - 1
WTTG FOX: 36, but displays as 5 - 1
WJLA ABC: 39, and strangely displays as 39-1 and 39-2...
WUSA CBS: 34, but displays as 9 - 1

So all you need to do is figure out what channel they're "really" broadcasting HD on, punch it in, and the 165 will display it as a minor "X - X" station.

And as to the heat issues, my new 165 (installed Sat.) is warm on top to the touch, but not unpleasantly so. It also emits a high pitched whine, but it's noticeable only when inches away from it.

Meanwhile, I just had a Samsung tech tell me that it's impossible to record to the JVC via firewire. I trust that statement has by now been conclusively disproved? (The tech deptartment's calling back tomorrow.)
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post #371 of 782 Old 12-09-2002, 02:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by WShackelford
I was just about to write what mjones just said above -- he/she's right.

Meanwhile, I just had a Samsung tech tell me that it's impossible to record to the JVC via firewire. I trust that statement has by now been conclusively disproved? (The tech deptartment's calling back tomorrow.)
Hard to know what to make of a comment like that. First, lots of people have been doing just that, and second, if you download the product brochure at http://www.samsungusa.com/SamsungUSA...6/sirt165.pdf, it shows a screen shapshot of the 165 doing just that.

Perhaps he's thinking of one of the other Samsung set-top boxes?
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post #372 of 782 Old 12-09-2002, 03:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by WShackelford
Meanwhile, I just had a Samsung tech tell me that it's impossible to record to the JVC via firewire. I trust that statement has by now been conclusively disproved? (The tech deptartment's calling back tomorrow.)
You received totally incorrect advise. OTA channels from the 165 record wonderfully with the JVC D-VHS deck via firewire.

"Doug Winsor" used to troll at some AV Forums as "Steve Bruzonsky"! My home theater at:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1158431
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post #373 of 782 Old 12-09-2002, 05:03 PM
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I hooked up my T165 today, and admit that I am bewildered by the inability to directly enter a subchannel number. It makes it even more annoying that this STB also tunes NTSC analog channels - so, if I want, say, WETA Digital channel 27-4, I enter 26 (the analog channel), then tune up to 26-4 (as the virtual channel PSIP is programmed). My old Sharp box let me tune directly as well as program "jump" buttons to go directly to my favorite channels. The favorite channel function on this box simply creates another up and down channel list.
It seems to work OK with the JVC DVHS, and records fine. I like the fact that I don't have to change my TV to a separate input for the D-VHS, it plays directly through firewire to the Samsung box, then to the TV.
I'm annoyed that the remote has not one single code for any of my other components: Toshiba TV, the JVC D-VHS (inexcusable), Echostar satellite... You can control the VCR through a clumsy on-screen graphic, but why wouldn't they make the VCR buttons on the remote control it?
One more annoyance: when viewing the guide, you can't simply press "Enter" on the remote to go to that channel, as you can in any other guide software. You can only view the program info, then exit the guide and tune manually to that channel.
The signal reception in this box doesn't seem to be any better than my 1998 Sharp tuner, and in fact, it doesn't seem to receive the distant Baltimore and Annapolis signals that the old box did.
These are relatively minor complaints, though, when weighed together with the long-awaited ability to record HD! I wish I had had this combo back in 1997 when I first began watching the meager offerings in HD, and I could have taped them for posterity... who wouldn't love to have tapes of the first color broadcasts?
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post #374 of 782 Old 12-10-2002, 04:06 AM
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Isn't amazing the Samsung has supplied us with such a wonderful "universal remote". I guess that refers to the fact that it is universally useless!

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post #375 of 782 Old 12-10-2002, 10:19 AM
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I have only used the timer a few times but it seems to work alright. I noticed that there does not seem to be a method for automatically recording the same time slot each week (or day).

The DTC-100 handles that very intuitively when you program it. I can't find a way to do this with the 165. Did I miss something obvious on the programming screen?
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post #376 of 782 Old 12-10-2002, 10:33 AM
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I haven't found any way to intuitively use the guide or recording features. On every other piece of equipment I own, you can scroll in the guide and click on a program to tune to it; or, if the program is in the future, clicking on it will bring up a recording option. The roundabout way the 165 makes you set up a recording harkens back to setting a VCR in 1981, which is ridiculous considering that the age of interactive program guides (or even VCR Plus) arrived more than a decade ago.
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post #377 of 782 Old 12-10-2002, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Pete Putman

The downside is that D-VHS tapes recorded with the all-Panasonic combo that contained two or more minor channels cannot be navigated when played back on the JVC/Samsung combo. The tuner goes to the highest minor channel number and that's all you see.

Pete Putman KT2B
Yikes! This could be a problem. Aren't the higher numbered sub channels usually the ones you don't want, like foreign language or 2-channel audio?

Mark
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post #378 of 782 Old 12-10-2002, 04:00 PM
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Holy cow! One day with this box, and I have run into incredible problems!
Earlier, I tried taping an HD program. My VCR recorded in STD mode for some reason. The T165 would control the VCR, but when I tried to play back the tape, it reset the T165, which turned itself off then on.
Now, the T165's on-screen display is stuck there - I can't get rid of the "Digital Sound" caption and the Channel Info overlays. This is possibly the most frustrating piece of home media equipment I've ever used... what in the world is the deal here?
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post #379 of 782 Old 12-10-2002, 04:12 PM
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After reading the grief people are experiencing I am leaning more and more towards building a HTPC for HDTV viewing and recording. It will definitely be cheaper than the SIR-T165/DVHS combination and hopefully more reliable.

(I might have a "little used 3 month old" SIR-T150 available including remote, manual and original box)
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post #380 of 782 Old 12-10-2002, 04:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gene Cowan
Now, the T165's on-screen display is stuck there - I can't get rid of the "Digital Sound" caption and the Channel Info overlays.
Yep. Turn on and then off the Guide to get rid of the Info display. Then turn on and off the Menu to get rid of the Digital Sound status box.

Does anyone's T165 remote control have a Firewire button at the bottom right below the VCR controls (as shown in the manual)?

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post #381 of 782 Old 12-10-2002, 04:50 PM
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Quote:

Does anyone's T165 remote control have a Firewire button at the bottom right below the VCR controls (as shown in the manual)?

Greg Rogers
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yes my remote has the firewire button

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...61#post1533861

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post #382 of 782 Old 12-10-2002, 04:51 PM
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Mine has the Firewire button. It brings up the VCR control overlay, which is a rather annoying thing - you first press enter on the name of the VCR, then you can navigate through the control buttons... or navigate down to press "Back" or "Exit."
The entire menu structure of this thing requires you to navigate to "Back" (or press the Back button on the remote) to go to other menu items. I don't understand why you can't just use the arrow keys to navigate back to the menu choices. I don't seem to understand a lot of the interface mechanisms behind this thing.
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post #383 of 782 Old 12-10-2002, 05:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by markrubin
yes my remote has the firewire button
Mark
I suspected that I was sent the wrong remote! I'll get the right one. Until then ...

When the Firewire button is pressed it is supposed to bring up the same Firewire control panel that you get through the Menu. BUT does it also enable the VCR buttons (just above it on the remote control) to control the D-VHS tape deck so you don't have to use the cursor keys to navigate the Firewire control panel functions?

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post #384 of 782 Old 12-10-2002, 05:12 PM
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No, nothing enables those VCR buttons. Unless you have one of the odd brand VCRs that the "universal" remote supports.
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post #385 of 782 Old 12-10-2002, 05:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gene Cowan
Holy cow! One day with this box, and I have run into incredible problems!
Earlier, I tried taping an HD program. My VCR recorded in STD mode for some reason. The T165 would control the VCR, but when I tried to play back the tape, it reset the T165, which turned itself off then on.
Now, the T165's on-screen display is stuck there - I can't get rid of the "Digital Sound" caption and the Channel Info overlays. This is possibly the most frustrating piece of home media equipment I've ever used... what in the world is the deal here?
I have run into the same problems with all sorts of display items STUCK on the screen. (Have you heard the one about the wrong channel number that sticks there and stays?) You also can't specify what speed to record at! It's wherever it was last, and usually I can't get it to switch, even with the button on the JVC when the 165 is controlling it. The remote doesn't work with a Toshiba TV, and the VCR buttons won't work with a JVC VCR (the normal vcr buttons on the remote, that is). And, if you try to use the remote buttons on the JVC's remote control, it TOTALLY freaks out the SIR-T165! All this and NO support from Samsung, isn't it wonderful! I've gone back to using my SIR-T150 for viewing, mostly. It doesn't give me grief. (and the remote works, even with my Toshiba TV!)

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post #386 of 782 Old 12-11-2002, 09:17 AM
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gregr

I believe that if you are controlling the VCR using the firewire, you cannot control it with the buttons on the remote as well, without religuishing the control back to the remote and not the firewire. Makes sense to me.

IMHO, whatever the firewire device on the firewire selection panel, once you select firewire control for it, the remote for that device (whatever) is not useable.

Bill

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post #387 of 782 Old 12-11-2002, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Babula
I believe that if you are controlling the VCR using the firewire, you cannot control it with the buttons on the remote as well, without religuishing the control back to the remote and not the firewire. Makes sense to me.
It works just as you describe, but wouldn't it be better if the T165 remote's VCR buttons issued the same FireWire commands as the on-screen FireWire control panel whenever the FireWire control panel was being used to control a VCR device? It is rather cumbersome to select the transport control icons with the cursors and the Enter button particularly when searching for something on the tape at Fast Forward or Reverse scan speeds.

Fortunately, the D-VHS IR remote control can still be used to control the tape transport, or to initiate or stop recording, even while the FireWire control panel is displayed. It makes a lot more sense (to me) to use the Stop button on the remote to end recording than to use the Power off button on the T165 remote. Even if the VCR buttons on the T165's remote didn't send commands over the FireWire, they could still control the D-VHS deck if the remote had IR control codes for the JVC or Mitsubishi D-VHS recorders, but it doesn't.

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post #388 of 782 Old 12-11-2002, 01:29 PM
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Greg,
I agree it is cumbersome to use the transport controls on the firewire panel. My most cumbersome experience is that during playback, to skip commericals, one must go through several steps to FF the tape. If the commercials are over two minutes (my estimate), the panel disappears and I must then activate it again and stop the FF and step to Play and enter to pick up the show after the commercial. If you are not quick enough on the uptake, a portion of the show is also FF and now you must FR to get what you missed. Anyway it is cumbersome.

If you now try to control the VCR with its remote, that really confuses the heck out of the 165 since it had a nice connection going on and then it was disturbed.

Since I mainly use the 165 for OTA Time Shifting of HD stuff, I just "go along" with the process.

The saving grace for me is that I am now able to view HDTV OTA stuff that I would miss without the 165. My other consideration is program "Content" and if I like several shows that are on at the same time, it is really wonderful to be able to tape in HDTV and watch it at my convenience.

I note many of the forum members "collect" many shows for their library but honestly wonder when they find the time to watch them.

I have a tape of our wedding in 1960 (original source 8mm) and have not looked at that in 40 years. :-)

Bill

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post #389 of 782 Old 12-13-2002, 12:10 AM
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I recently got a hold of a Samsung rep who spoke to the main engineer on the 165 and they said they will try to resolve some of the problems identified on this thread. I will keep all updated as I get answers and hopefully solutions.

-------------------------------------------------------
Concering the PSIP STT time code problem from the Samsung rep:

Samsung:

"Unfortunately, there is no manual set-up to change the clock. We assumed that the broadcasters would send the correct time. As he explained to me, the technology on these items is moving so quickly the broadcasters are not yet up to speed. He apologized for the inconvenience & felt badly that he passed the buck to the stations...

You did not mention another related issue which the engineer told me about: If a broadcaster does not send a PSIP (data stream) the box will not receive the broadcast signal from that broadcaster. We have developed a software patch to correct that problem, but it needs to be translated from Korean into English! It should be about 3 to 4 weeks. I'll let you know when it's ready & email it to you if it's not too big a file. (FYI, you will need to use a PC with a serial cable into the rear of the box's RS232.)"

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The menu system will not pass through the firewire requiring an additional component output just to see the menu. Some have suggested a S-Video out to compensate, but you then need to toggle the 1080i switch to 480i every time you want to see the menu, as S-Video will not work (according to the manual and my tests) while set in 1080i resolution.

Samsung:

"The engineer will be contacting JVC & Samsung's Korean engineers to discuss this issue. He told me that the box was tested extensively with a JVC unit during development; apparently the JVC has some known issues. As the engineer describes it, both the JVC and Samsung items have some minor issues which, when combined, may create other, more significant issues."

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No discrete codes for “on and offâ€.

Samsung:

"That is correct. Samsung is considering that feature for the next generation box."


That's it for now.......
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post #390 of 782 Old 12-13-2002, 12:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Babula
Greg,
I agree it is cumbersome to use the transport controls on the firewire panel. My most cumbersome experience is that during playback, to skip commericals, one must go through several steps to FF the tape.
Only use the Samsung remote for recording. Otherwise use the JVC or Universal remote with JVC codes. Use the skip feature on the JVC which with each button press skips the tape forward 30 seconds. You can use up to 4 button presses at a time (2 minutes).
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