I Have My Samsung Sir-t165 As Of Today!!! - Page 19 - AVS Forum
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post #541 of 782 Old 02-10-2003, 09:12 PM
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without reading thru this massive thread has anyone had a successful contact with Samsung to see if there was a way to address any of these issues?

Rick
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post #542 of 782 Old 02-10-2003, 09:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by RTK
without reading thru this massive thread has anyone had a successful contact with Samsung to see if there was a way to address any of these issues?
ive read thru this entire thread, & i spoke with them today (read up a bit) and i dont see one positive confirmation that samsung has commited to fixing a single one of the issues reported here.
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post #543 of 782 Old 02-10-2003, 09:37 PM
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Is anyone using their SIR-T165 with both OTA DTV and cable input (i.e. using the SIR-T165 as their cable tuner)?

I can memorize/scan both the OTA stations and cable stations, but there doesn't seem to be a simple way to switch between the two domains. The only way I've found to switch is to go into the memorize channel menu and select either OTA or Cable, and then leave the menu without scanning. An extremely poor user interface at best. Is there some other way of doing this?
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post #544 of 782 Old 02-10-2003, 09:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by lnh
Is anyone using their SIR-T165 with both OTA DTV and cable input (i.e. using the SIR-T165 as their cable tuner)?

I can memorize/scan both the OTA stations and cable stations, but there doesn't seem to be a simple way to switch between the two domains. The only way I've found to switch is to go into the memorize channel menu and select either OTA or Cable, and then leave the menu without scanning. An extremely poor user interface at best. Is there some other way of doing this?
There isnt any other way to do it, that I am aware of. I noticed the same thing. I thought, "this cant be right" but sadly it appears to be the case.
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post #545 of 782 Old 02-10-2003, 10:47 PM
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I have the same problem, and asked this same question earlier in this absurdly long thread. Alas, we're stuck unless a firmware update comes to our rescue.

Michael
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post #546 of 782 Old 02-10-2003, 11:07 PM
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I won't have my 165 until this weekend but is it somehow possible to use the firewire port to upgrade the firmware? or maybe they are how they are...

Rick
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post #547 of 782 Old 02-10-2003, 11:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by RTK
I won't have my 165 until this weekend but is it somehow possible to use the firewire port to upgrade the firmware? or maybe they are how they are...
There is a RS-232 serial port. But, I dont know where the firmware update would come from. Samsung seems rather uninterested in supporting the SIR-T165 at the moment. I decided to return mine tonight. There has been a lot of action on the SIR-T160 however..... Think that has to do with Directvs relationship with Samsung, and perhaps they are pushing Samsung to fix the issues on that unit. Just a thought.
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post #548 of 782 Old 02-11-2003, 05:36 AM
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Maybe Samsung is unable to properly search the forum/this thread.

Let's try to summarize the issues for them....
Here's what I found....please add/enhance/update so
a "tech writer" in the audience can clean it up, and we can present a clean, clear and united front to Samsung.
TIA

1) "Timer" issue where the 165 overrides its internal clock with value from the channel's PSIP.
Present work-around: [Politely] ask the channel's chief engineer to adjust their PSIP clock.
Suggested fix: ??? i.e. only take a PSIP clock value after a power outage or manual set-up command.

2) Cannot directly tune subchannels.
Present work-around: select the "main" channel via the number pad, then use the "next" button.

3) Unable to handle situations where user has both OTA and Cable.
Present work-around:
Suggested fix: have "memorized" settings for both cable and OTA. Also use a remote button do easily do OTA/cable switching. [Note: user responsible for providing & selecting an antenna A/B switch.] Also suggest future models have two antenna inputs that can be switched. (So users can select cable/OTA, cable/cable-box, OTA1/OTA2, cable1/cable2, or cable/game).

4) Remote isn't universal -- several brand-name TVs not supported.
Present work-around: a) Use the TV remote along with the 165 remote. b) add the 165's buttons to a learning remote.
Suggested fix: Update the remote.

5) Remote doesn't directly control DVHS functions.
Present work-around: use the 165's firewire menu directly, or enable the firewire with the 165's remote then use the DVHS's remote, turn off firewire via 165 remote when finished.
Suggested fix: convert the remote's "VCR" buttons to the appropriate firewire commands.

6) Dialog boxes not "cleaned-up". (The 165 can get confused when DVHS is used with the DVHS remote without being enabled using the firewire button/menu.)
Present work-around: see #5 above.
Suggested fix: ...

7) Timer recording of channels with multiple-subchannels doesn't work, since the 165 selects the "main" subchannel
(usually the "-1") instead of the one specified (e.g. "-2") in the timer request.
Present work-around: can manually the sub-channel then manually start the recording from the firewire menu. ("Time-shifting" only possible this way with programmable remotes that can wait for specified start time, start 165, delay, tune 165, select firewire, power-on DVHS, start record, wait for specified end time, stop DVHS, power-off DVHS, power-off 165.

8) Upscaled component input not output to RGB.

9) Upscaled component input has color shift on some monitors.

10) A timing adjust menu is needed (aka "centering commands").
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post #549 of 782 Old 02-11-2003, 06:44 AM
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Is the reboot issue considered a 165 issue or a broadcaster issue?
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post #550 of 782 Old 02-11-2003, 06:50 AM
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When WAGA (in Atlanta) was mucking about with their PSIP, it did cause my 165 to reboot, but once it was sorted out, I haven't had my 165 reboot from the PSIP irregularity.
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post #551 of 782 Old 02-11-2003, 07:40 AM
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For the clock, I'd like to be able to set it manually, or at least force it to set only from one selected channel.

Some other additional issues:

For the PSIP guide, I'd like to enable it in groups of channels, so it doesn't go to never never land looking for channels in the wrong direction.

For the favorite channels I'd like to be able to mark them by sub-channel.

For the sound, I'd like a menu pop up of audio choices, rather than the push button. Some stations have a lot of
these.

Allow switching 720P or 1080i from the remote. And always
display the true broadcast format with the info command.

Come out with an upgrade for the equalizer chip, since it still is not adequate.

Bring back the multi-color LED tuning light, and provide a better tuning meter on screen. The current one doesn't work at all. Tends to read full or zero, and is no help in fine tuning the antenna. (Zenith 420 seems to have a somewhat useful meter for comparison.)

Provide a way to reset or re-sync the firewire, so when it fails, we don't have to do the power down power up on everything.
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post #552 of 782 Old 02-11-2003, 07:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by jimg
Maybe Samsung is unable to properly search the forum/this thread.

Let's try to summarize the issues for them....
Here's what I found....please add/enhance/update so
a "tech writer" in the audience can clean it up, and we can present a clean, clear and united front to Samsung.
TIA

1) "Timer" issue where the 165 overrides its internal clock with value from the channel's PSIP.
Present work-around: [Politely] ask the channel's chief engineer to adjust their PSIP clock.
Suggested fix: ??? i.e. only take a PSIP clock value after a power outage or manual set-up command.

2) Cannot directly tune subchannels.
Present work-around: select the "main" channel via the number pad, then use the "next" button.

3) Unable to handle situations where user has both OTA and Cable.
Present work-around:
Suggested fix: have "memorized" settings for both cable and OTA. Also use a remote button do easily do OTA/cable switching. [Note: user responsible for providing & selecting an antenna A/B switch.] Also suggest future models have two antenna inputs that can be switched. (So users can select cable/OTA, cable/cable-box, OTA1/OTA2, cable1/cable2, or cable/game).

4) Remote isn't universal -- several brand-name TVs not supported.
Present work-around: a) Use the TV remote along with the 165 remote. b) add the 165's buttons to a learning remote.
Suggested fix: Update the remote.

5) Remote doesn't directly control DVHS functions.
Present work-around: use the 165's firewire menu directly, or enable the firewire with the 165's remote then use the DVHS's remote, turn off firewire via 165 remote when finished.
Suggested fix: convert the remote's "VCR" buttons to the appropriate firewire commands.

6) Dialog boxes not "cleaned-up". (The 165 can get confused when DVHS is used with the DVHS remote without being enabled using the firewire button/menu.)
Present work-around: see #5 above.
Suggested fix: ...

7) Timer recording of channels with multiple-subchannels doesn't work, since the 165 selects the "main" subchannel
(usually the "-1") instead of the one specified (e.g. "-2") in the timer request.
Present work-around: can manually the sub-channel then manually start the recording from the firewire menu. ("Time-shifting" only possible this way with programmable remotes that can wait for specified start time, start 165, delay, tune 165, select firewire, power-on DVHS, start record, wait for specified end time, stop DVHS, power-off DVHS, power-off 165.

8) Upscaled component input not output to RGB.

9) Upscaled component input has color shift on some monitors.

10) A timing adjust menu is needed (aka "centering commands").
I would add to this:

1. Many users experience a horizontal shift of the screen to the left of approx 2 inches when using the DVI output. There is no way to adjust for this in the user menu. The same problem has affected the SIR-T160, but a firmware update added a menu item to adjust for this problem on the 160.
2. All upconverted signals display too little black and look washed out due to the 7.5 IRE black vs. 0 IRE HD output.
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post #553 of 782 Old 02-11-2003, 07:52 AM
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Jim & Michael,

Thank you for confirming the issue with switching between OTA and Cable. This product seems to have a great deal of promise, but it's VERY rough around the edges. I'm starting to feel like I'm going to return it within the 30 day MBG period. Don't really need the firewire at this moment in time. Any recommendations on an alternative to the SIR-T165?
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post #554 of 782 Old 02-11-2003, 08:38 AM
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Don't know if it helps ... but I called Samsung today as well, asking them to consider a firmware upgrade to fix the 165's problems ... . I especially want/need the decent (non-washed out) output from upconverted signals :(. I mentioned the itemized bug list (above), offering to send the address for this thread to Samsung by email, but was told Samsung engineers are on this forum "all the time." So ... c'mon Samsung, give us some help (it's not like the 165 is a cheap/throwaway investment)! :(
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post #555 of 782 Old 02-11-2003, 08:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by rpeduzzi
Don't know if it helps ... but I called Samsung today as well, asking them to consider a firmware upgrade to fix the 165's problems ... . I especially want/need the decent (non-washed out) output from upconverted signals :(. I mentioned the itemized bug list (above), offering to send the address for this thread to Samsung by email, but was told Samsung engineers are on this forum "all the time." So ... c'mon Samsung, give us some help (it's not like the 165 is a cheap/throwaway investment)! :(
On the forum all the time? Well sheesh, that makes it even worse. Why arent they doing anything about the SIR-T165 issues? Even when I called they didnt offer anything except yes we are aware of the upconversion issue but arent planning to do anything about it.

I pretty much decided to return mine last night. The DVI picture shift was what sealed it for me. DVI output does look fantastic, but I cant live with a 2 inch shift to the left. Sorry. Especially when there is no way to stretch HD signals (many broadcasters are sending 14x9) which means I have to live with looking at a picture way off center. Even when a 16x9 signal is being sent I am losing picture information on the left side when using DVI output.
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post #556 of 782 Old 02-11-2003, 09:07 AM
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My SIR-T165 has a 60 day MBG from Sound Advice. I will also be looking for some Samsung response.

Edo
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post #557 of 782 Old 02-11-2003, 10:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by jhe
...

For the favorite channels I'd like to be able to mark them by sub-channel.

...
Yes, you can!
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post #558 of 782 Old 02-11-2003, 06:51 PM
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I'm not advocating this approach but what if you had called Samsung and told them your under warranty unit needed servicing because the picture was shifted 2inches. If this is the case with all units via DVI output isnt that sort of make DVI output defective or at the least false advertising about its capabilities. Seems odd that this issue alone doesnt warrant a firmware update.

Rick
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post #559 of 782 Old 02-11-2003, 07:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by RTK
I'm not advocating this approach but what if you had called Samsung and told them your under warranty unit needed servicing because the picture was shifted 2inches. If this is the case with all units via DVI output isnt that sort of make DVI output defective or at the least false advertising about its capabilities. Seems odd that this issue alone doesnt warrant a firmware update.
I called Samsung again today. They claimed there is not a known problem with the DVI output of the 165, but they did acknowledge the issue exists with the 160 and is fixable via the firmware update. Then they suggested I take my 165 to a store that has TVs with a DVI input and then ask a salesperson if I could test out the 165 to see if the same problem happens with a set other than my own!! Im serious!!. I almost choked.

They also suggested that the problem could be with my set, which I suppose is possible. I have a Tosh 42hdx82, and I know of at least on other owner of a 50hdx82 with the same issue. I do not know if any other 165 owners have experienced this problem with a different brand of set.

Anyhow after this I said well I am just planning to return my 165 then as I do not find what you are suggesting to be a agreeable solution. I mean come on they want me to take my unit to a store, ask like a fool if I can hook it up to their set that I have no intention of buying just to see if my HDTV receiver is ok??? LOL!

Well then the gentleman says he can set me up with a RMA and I can send my unit in and they will test it out and see what if anything they find. I say, hmm okay great let me think about that tonight and get back to you. They did not offer an advance replacement. I know that on the 160s, if you have the chroma issue they had been offering advance replacements with a credit card.

Anyways, after all this I got home, went into service mode on my tosh and found out that I can adjust the horizontal position on the DVI input independently of the other inputs- which I did. I have it very close to perfect, while noting that I had to adjust it almost to the very limit of the horizontal adjustment to get it right. One more click to the right and the picture goes completely wacky.

So, while sure, I do have the ability to adjust the DVI inputs screen position on MY set, I had to push it to its far limit to get it correct (far beyond what would be considered a normal adjustment) and I still think the 165 is at fault for causing such a huge need for this adjustment.

Anyways, that is my update for today. Hope this is helpful to someone out there.

Jim
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post #560 of 782 Old 02-11-2003, 07:43 PM
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I don't have a DVI display to see it for myself but the fact that they suggested you return to your site of purchase and try it on another display means to me that they have not yet recognized or identified this as a proven problem. Perhaps if someone were to call in and specifiy that they have a shifted image on 2 different displays the issue might be taken more seriously. Is everyone using the DVI output noticing the image shifted?

Rick
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post #561 of 782 Old 02-11-2003, 10:45 PM
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Heres my problem with the DVI output to a Toshiba 65HDX82...

If I set the TS160 to 4:3 screen mode I find the "Format" button will stretch 4:3 broadcast pictures to my 16:9 screen fine.

If I have the TS160 set to 16:9 mode - which should be the correct mode for my TV I find that I cannot stretch 4:3 pictures at all via the Format button... Nothing happens they just appear with the two black vertical borders on either side of the 4:3 image and each of the TS160 format modes does nothing....

Surely I shoud be able to have the TS160 set to 16:9 and the "Format" button stretch 4:3 images to the 16:9 screen?

Am I missing something here?
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post #562 of 782 Old 02-12-2003, 01:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by RTK
Is everyone using the DVI output noticing the image shifted?
I've used the T165 DVI output (480p, 720p, and 1080i) while reviewing the InFocus 7200 and the Sharp XV-Z10000. I haven't noticed any shift with the DVI output of the T165. I also tested the InFocus 7200 and the Sharp XV-10000 DVI inputs with a calibrated DVI source, so I know both of them were working correctly. Therefore, I would suspect the shifting problem is in the display, not the T165.

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post #563 of 782 Old 02-12-2003, 02:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by pdampier
If I have the TS160 set to 16:9 mode - which should be the correct mode for my TV I find that I cannot stretch 4:3 pictures at all via the Format button... Nothing happens they just appear with the two black vertical borders on either side of the 4:3 image and each of the TS160 format modes does nothing....

Surely I shoud be able to have the TS160 set to 16:9 and the "Format" button stretch 4:3 images to the 16:9 screen?

Am I missing something here?
Perhaps. Since you said there are "black" borders on the 4:3 picture, rather than gray borders, I suspect you are looking at an HD channel. If so, the frame is already 16:9 (with a 4:3 upconverted image centered inside it by the broadcaster) when it is received by the set top box. The Samsung, and most (all?) other set top boxes will not "stretch" (rescale) a 16:9 frame. They will only "stretch" (rescale) 4:3 frames received on standard-definition channels.

BTW, I raised this issue with several manufactures before the first HDTV set-top boxes were introduced. I suggested that they include a mode that horizontally rescaled the middle 4:3 portion of a 16:9 frame to fill the entire 16:9 frame. In other words, strip off the black borders and rescale the 4:3 image inside to create a new 16:9 frame. The primary reason is to protect CRT projectors from differential phosphor aging, and other people just want to fill their 16:9 screens.

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post #564 of 782 Old 02-12-2003, 07:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by pspun
Yes, you can!
But I want to tell it the numbers, not have it tell me the ones I can pick currently.

This will be important when pbs starts to do HD part of the day, and 4 sub channels other parts.
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post #565 of 782 Old 02-12-2003, 07:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by jhe
...provide a better tuning meter on screen. The current one doesn't work at all. Tends to read full or zero, and is no help in fine tuning the antenna.
Are you referring to the DTV signal strength bar graph (Menu >> Channels >> Signal Stength)? If so, mine works perfectly. It gives an entire range of readings. It certainly has never displayed just "full or zero".

I agree the graphics could be better. Why didn't they include a numerical reading? The 160 has one. This makes antenna-fiddling somewhat quicker.

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post #566 of 782 Old 02-12-2003, 07:38 AM
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gregr,

Two good posts. Thanks.

If someone is seeing black bars around a 4:3 picture, then they're certainly tuned to a digital 16:9 broadcast that includes black bars in the OTA signal. The sidebars produced by the 165 for NTSC broadcasts are gray, not black.

FWIW, the DVI output from the 165 to my Samsung HLM437W is properly centered. Seems like this problem is monitor-dependent, which makes it sound like a monitor problem, not a STB problem.

Also, I don't think it will help our credibility with Samsung on the real problems with the 165 if we keep nagging them on the PSIP clock issue. I haven't seen any evidence that the 165 even has a clock. There's no reason for it to have one. Let's work together to get them to address the issues they can and should fix.

Just my $.02.

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post #567 of 782 Old 02-12-2003, 07:49 AM
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Regarding PSIP issues, it seems they might also be the root of the reboot problems I and others have experienced. The reboot problem makes my local FOX DTV station totally unreachable - particularly annoying on Tuesday nights...

Not understanding the basis of the problem, I'm not sure how to even address it. Should the 165 be more tolerant of the error and not reboot? I have seen in other forums that other STBs periodically reboot for various reasons.

If it is a broadcaster issue, what do I say to get them to fix it? I don't think "please fix your PSIP" is going to go very far. What specifically needs to be corrected?
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post #568 of 782 Old 02-12-2003, 09:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by gregr
I've used the T165 DVI output (480p, 720p, and 1080i) while reviewing the InFocus 7200 and the Sharp XV-Z10000. I haven't noticed any shift with the DVI output of the T165. I also tested the InFocus 7200 and the Sharp XV-10000 DVI inputs with a calibrated DVI source, so I know both of them were working correctly. Therefore, I would suspect the shifting problem is in the display, not the T165.

Greg Rogers
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After doing a fair amount on research I have found that there are, indeed users of sets other than the Toshibas having the same problem with the DVI output. That knowledge, and the fact that the Samsung SIR-T160 already has this same problem still leads me to believe there is an issue with the 165s DVI output.
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post #569 of 782 Old 02-12-2003, 10:34 AM
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I see a couple of threads that talk about the T160. Are we talking apples and oranges here? It is not clear to me why anyone would bring up the T160 in a T165 subject without explanantion. Perhaps I don't know enough.
Am I missing something?
Bill

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post #570 of 782 Old 02-12-2003, 12:49 PM
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I have the T165 connected to the Samsung DLP using DVI. I have not experienced any of the problems mentioned here.
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