I Have My Samsung Sir-t165 As Of Today!!! - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 782 Old 11-11-2002, 10:24 AM
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DoctorHiFI, just to set the record straight, the samsung is not the only STB with Firewire. The dtc100 from 169time has been shipping for a year doing OTA HD recording to the JVC, Mits and panasonic sutff perfectly and has none of the issues this thread is dealing with.

Dave
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post #92 of 782 Old 11-11-2002, 10:30 AM
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DoctorHiFI, just to set the record straight, the samsung is not the only STB with Firewire. The dtc100 from 169time has been shipping for a year doing OTA HD recording to the JVC, Mits and panasonic stuff perfectly and has none of the issues this thread is dealing with.

It may be older technology, but it works

Dave
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post #93 of 782 Old 11-11-2002, 10:38 AM
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h20fun -- you're jumping in here with a non-statement -- explain the timer mechanism in the 169time solution, and also explain that it successfully plays prerecorded DVHS tapes with DD 5.1 through the dtc100 -- those are the issues this thread is dealing with...

robert
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post #94 of 782 Old 11-11-2002, 10:59 AM
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I have a mod'd DTC100 so I'll chime in with my experiences.

Quote:
explain the timer mechanism in the 169time solution
I have no problem using the timer in the DTC100 to record HD. In fact I recorded 'The Agency' on Saturday this way while I was out of town.

Quote:
explain that it successfully plays prerecorded DVHS tapes
It'll play Pre-recorded DHVS tapes without 5C like the HDNet ones. I realize you're probably referring to D-Theater though.
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post #95 of 782 Old 11-11-2002, 11:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jerry G
Steve,

If someone is using an AV Receiver to switch component inputs (coupled with the sound input), using the video output from the 165 and the audio output from the JVC will be very cumbersome. This really sounds like another design flaw in the 165. Add to that the timer problem and this box is looking worse and worse.

I disagree. Its not a design flaw. The 165 was designed simply as an OTA analog/digital and HD receiver, not to be used as a way station for processing audio and video from other sources. The fact that it can be used to some extent as what I call a way or transfer station is simply an added plus. If you want it to do all that perfectly it would clearly be a much more expensive product.

Yes, it would be nice if the audio from the JVC D-VHS deck, for pre-recorded D-theater and non-D-theater music titles, would play through in Dolby Digital, but they won't. But anything you record from OTA will play through as originally recorded, for example Dolby Digital, just fine.

Frankly, almost all of us have a receiver with multiple toslink and coax inputs, so using the toslink digital audio output from the JVC D-VHS deck is no big deal, a no brainer, as far as I'm concerned.

And what I've found out is that its simply better to have the JVC-DVHS VCR hooked up by its own audio and video cabling to your system, so it can play independently of the 165. This gives you more ease of operation, in that (1) D-Theater and other pre-recorded demo and music D-VHS tapes playback their original Dolby Digital this way; (2) You can use all features of the JVC D-VHS deck and remote this way, especially the index feature; and (3) You don't have to worry about following the precise procedure I've outlined above to ensure nothing kinky gums up D-VHS playback audio and video.

***The only real issue with the 165, given its reasonable price and use as simply an OTA receiver with 1394 for digital recording, is timer recording, due to variances in time signal for many of the local OTA digital channels.
I am just going to start exploring this issue soon. Now where's Rees where you need him, to get with his contacts at Samsung and tell us whether Samsung can do a software upgrade to take care of this issue by providing for manual clock and timer settings. HELP??

As for the modified DTC-100, H20Fun, please take it to another thread. I started this thread on the 165, not to have it taken over by another product from another company. Thanks for understanding.

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post #96 of 782 Old 11-11-2002, 11:41 AM
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Has anyone tried hooking the T165 up to a computer with the firewire output? I'm just wondering if there's been any experimenting with that yet.
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post #97 of 782 Old 11-11-2002, 11:55 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by Steve Bruzonsky

Yes, it would be nice if the audio from the JVC D-VHS deck, for pre-recorded D-theater and non-D-theater music titles, would play through in Dolby Digital, but they won't. But anything you record from OTA will play through as originally recorded, for example Dolby Digital, just fine.


As for the modified DTC-100, H20Fun, please take it to another thread. I started this thread on the 165, not to have it taken over by another product from another company. Thanks for understanding.
I may have misunderstood. If it's only the D Theater tapes that don't play back with DD, then OK (sorta). But I thought that Vic posted that some of his recordings also weren't playing back with DD, but PCM instead. It would be nice to see this issue clarifed.

Regarding Mr. Fun, forget it. His MO is well known and it will never end as long as he's allowed on this board.
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post #98 of 782 Old 11-11-2002, 12:06 PM
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I'm afraid my chart post will again get obscured (6 or 7 post back) before it is made accurate... If you have any T165 empirical data, please let me know so we can end up with a completed chart that will be helpful to everyone...

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post #99 of 782 Old 11-11-2002, 12:08 PM
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Steve, it just seems fair that when someone makes a comment on your thread that is not a fact, that I would like to you, or somelike like MR Wilson to just set the record straight. I have no desire to get into the 165 thread, but lets just give people all the facts on data, and let them decide.
Fair?

Dave
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post #100 of 782 Old 11-11-2002, 12:28 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by Steve Bruzonsky
I disagree. Its not a design flaw. The 165 was designed simply as an OTA analog/digital and HD receiver, not to be used as a way station for processing audio and video from other sources. The fact that it can be used to some extent as what I call a way or transfer station is simply an added plus. If you want it to do all that perfectly it would clearly be a much more expensive product.
I have to disagree on this point. The brochure for the 165 shows the menu setup for the JVC. The various descriptions of the 165 proclaim it's ability to be used with the JVC and Mits recorders. I think the inter operability with DVHS machines is a significant intended feature of the design of the 165 and as such should work correctly with both video and audio from DVHS recorded tapes. Anything less I would consider a flaw.
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post #101 of 782 Old 11-11-2002, 12:59 PM
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Well, here I'm pushing my chart inquiry further away myself, but...

Jerry -- tell me again how you know that this problem with 5.1 audio is a T165 "flaw" and not a JVC "flaw"? I asked in an earlier post if there was another device that successfully takes the firewire output from a DTheater tape and provides 5.1 Until we identify that, it could be that the JVC is doing something wrong.

robert
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post #102 of 782 Old 11-11-2002, 01:57 PM
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Why does everyone keep saying that the only STB with Firewire is the Samsung 165? Are the following which are mentioned in the STB FAQ not Firewire STBs as well?

· Panasonic TU-DST50 $1699 (Firewire)
· Panasonic TU-DST51 $1199 (Firewire)

I know they are older and probably difficult to acquire. The price listed in the FAQ is probably not accurate either but definitely cheaper than the modified dtc100.
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post #103 of 782 Old 11-11-2002, 01:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by RKay
I asked in an earlier post if there was another device that successfully takes the firewire output from a DTheater tape and provides 5.1 Until we identify that, it could be that the JVC is doing something wrong.

robert
Robert,
As stated above the modded DTC-100 from www.169time.com accepts the firewired signal from a JVC, Mits, or Panasonic D-VHS VCR and provides Dolby Digital output from its toslink.

The 169time product will not decode D-Theater tapes at all.

By the way.
The suggestion that one simply use the built in timers on the JVC will not wash as JVC (and Mits as well) neglected to include an i-link input among the options for timer recordings (as is done nicely on the venerable Panasonic PV-HD1000 VCR).

Thus all timed recordings with the JVC 30K and Mits VCRs must be controlled from a STB.

As far as I can see, the only major issues with this STB are the lack of an option to set the clock manually (Panasonic STBs did it manually; DTC-100 uses the satellite signal which is unerringly accurate), and an option to set digital output as native DD or converted PCM.

But these are very big issues and all efforts should be directed at Samsung to quickly come up up with a firmware or swap out solution...:o

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post #104 of 782 Old 11-11-2002, 01:58 PM
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Quote:
The other day I setup the JVC D-VHS VCR so I could run its vido and audio through the 1394 cables to the Samsung 165, then out the 165 by digital coaxial cable and both component and RGB video cabling to my video setup. The manual states that the D-VHS playback will only work if you use the component video cables from the 165, not if you use the RGB cables.
Wait. Did I just read this correctly? RGB outoput is disabled on this unless you are watching an OTA signal? Please clarify!

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post #105 of 782 Old 11-11-2002, 02:06 PM
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paul -- I think there were problems with at least one of the older Panasonic's (TU-DST50?) and the JVC.

tmitchmd -- it sounds like there is audio function parity with the 169time and T165 solutions, since 5.1 works OK on the T165 with OTA recorded tapes -- there are just seemingly issues with some prerecorded tapes, and this might really be about copy protection (although I doubt it)

robert
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post #106 of 782 Old 11-11-2002, 02:37 PM
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Dr 1394 has diagnosed the audio problem as a quirk of D-Theater as those tapes actually output two separate audio bitstreams. The 165 unfortunately decodes the MPEG 1 stream by default.

Much more pressing is the clock problem. Without a fix the Samsung will not be the reliable timer recording vehicle it was designed to be.

BTW,
KenH is once again proving prescient on the 5000 HD modulator market.
From the latest auction on ebay things are looking bullish to say the least...

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post #107 of 782 Old 11-11-2002, 03:00 PM
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That eBay auction price is ludicrous, especially when you calculate how little time there is left to record. :rolleyes:

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post #108 of 782 Old 11-11-2002, 03:02 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by RKay
Well, here I'm pushing my chart inquiry further away myself, but...

Jerry -- tell me again how you know that this problem with 5.1 audio is a T165 "flaw" and not a JVC "flaw"? I asked in an earlier post if there was another device that successfully takes the firewire output from a DTheater tape and provides 5.1 Until we identify that, it could be that the JVC is doing something wrong.

robert
The initial reports I read didn't make it clear (or I misunderstood) that the PCM output was related to the D Theater tapes. Apparently OTA recordings are fine. I believe in a following post it was determined that the problem with the D Theater tapes is with the JVC and not the 165. So hopefully, that settles that issue.

If only the timer issue didn't exist, the 165 sounds like it would be a winner. Right now, in my book, it's a big loser if one can't reliably record something with the timer.
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post #109 of 782 Old 11-11-2002, 04:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jerry G
I may have misunderstood. If it's only the D Theater tapes that don't play back with DD, then OK (sorta). But I thought that Vic posted that some of his recordings also weren't playing back with DD, but PCM instead. It would be nice to see this issue clarifed.
As I have stated previously, both D-Theater encoded, and several other pre-recorded non-D-Theater D-VHS tapes (the Japan demo tape, Motley Crew, and Yes) all will not play back in Dolby Digital when the D-VHS deck is only connected via firewire and you are depending on the 165's audio and video connection to play back picture and sound!!!

__________

*** I stand corrected. All of my D-VHS pre-recorded tapes are D-Theater, including a bunch of movies, the Japan demo tape, and the two music video of Yes and Motley Crew.

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post #110 of 782 Old 11-11-2002, 04:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by tmitchmd
As far as I can see, the only major issues with this STB are the lack of an option to set the clock manually (Panasonic STBs did it manually; DTC-100 uses the satellite signal which is unerringly accurate), and an option to set digital output as native DD or converted PCM.

But these are very big issues and all efforts should be directed at Samsung to quickly come up up with a firmware or swap out solution...:o
I AGREE. Someone needs to get Rees, the retired broadcast engineer who has been working with his Samsung 160 to get them to improve its
eccentricities, to also contact Samsung on the 165!!!!

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post #111 of 782 Old 11-11-2002, 04:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by Matt_Stevens
Wait. Did I just read this correctly? RGB outoput is disabled on this unless you are watching an OTA signal? Please clarify!
I guess no one ever wants to believe what I say the first time around.:D :D

That's right. If you play a D-VHS tape through the Samsung, you can only watch it using the component video outputs, not the VGA output. The VGA output is good only for viewing OTA stuff.

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post #112 of 782 Old 11-11-2002, 04:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by h2ofun
Steve, it just seems fair that when someone makes a comment on your thread that is not a fact, that I would like to you, or somelike like MR Wilson to just set the record straight. I have no desire to get into the 165 thread, but lets just give people all the facts on data, and let them decide.
Fair?

Dave
I trust you made your point and now will be MUM on the subject. Thanks.
For the record folks, the 169 time with modified DTC-100 is a competing
HD recording product that will work with the JVC D-VHS deck, there are plenty of threads here at the HD Recorder forum on 169.time, so there is no need to further interrupt this thread which is on the Samsung 165. If anyone wants to learn about 169.time you can look at those numerous other threads or private message Dave (H20Fun) who is totally satisfied with 169 time and will tell you whatever you want to know. Thanks for understanding. (We now return this broadcast to our regularly scheduled show!)

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post #113 of 782 Old 11-11-2002, 04:57 PM
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I ordered the SIR-t165 from Crutchfield

now I want to order a Middle Atlantic RSH4 cutom rackshelf for it but it is not in their database

can anyone tell me if the 165 is the same as another Samsung box? they do list the 150 and the 151

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post #114 of 782 Old 11-11-2002, 05:02 PM
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So Steve -- I don't want you to have to say it 3 times, but I want to correct my chart -- are you saying that *any* DVHS input (protected or unprotected) is not available at the RGB output? So, if I record OTA video which I can watch via RGB, when I play it back, I will only be able to watch it over composite, s-video, component, or DVI?

robert
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post #115 of 782 Old 11-11-2002, 05:11 PM
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No, it's copy-protected DVHS tapes (like D-Theater) that won't play on the RGB output. Regular DVHS tapes (like HDNet's or recordings made with the Dish 5000/mod or the 169time AV-X1) do play fine via the RGB output.
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post #116 of 782 Old 11-11-2002, 05:23 PM
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Thank you Vic -- I don't need to change the chart yet...

Is everyone convinced that, despite the problems in the early reviews, that 480i & 480p component inputs (e.g., DVD) work the same for scaling? One review mentioned a problem with a Panasonic in progressive, and another said a Sony worked fine in progressive.

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post #117 of 782 Old 11-11-2002, 05:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Analog channel note: Using S-Video output, I find that analog picture quality is a step below digital channel picture quality, same as for prior satellite receivers I've had, including Toshiba DST-3000 and RCA DTC-100. Hardly surprising, as all of these receivers have primary digital tuner, which takes in analog signal and converts to digital. This is why my best picture is with analog JVC 9600 S-VHS VCR or JVC D-VHS VCR. So I have set Samsung 165 only for digital channels OTA locally.

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post #118 of 782 Old 11-11-2002, 06:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Digital tuner note: Disappointing, and here's why!! Although I have a rotor, my OTA Antenna goes up just a bit over my room top, and is aimed at South Mountain. Now with the RCA DTC-100, I had to move the antenna some to get different stations at times. With the Toshiba, one position always does it all without fail!!!!

But tonight, with the Samsung, I was getting no picture and sound for Ch 8-1 and 8-1 (PBS), even though Samsung signal meter showed about half way. Yet on Toshiba picture and sound was fine, with meter showing usual signal strength. I also found Ch 5-1 (actually, 17-1) had the same problem.
So I may have to use my rotor a bit when I record off certain channels.
This is disappointing. As I experiment more, I'll comment on this more.

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post #119 of 782 Old 11-11-2002, 06:16 PM
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And do not shoot me but is it better than the Sony HD200?

Robert P Wagner
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post #120 of 782 Old 11-11-2002, 06:17 PM
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Also, you system is apparently, so complex, it would be neat to have a flow chart of all your hookups

Robert P Wagner
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