I Have My Samsung Sir-t165 As Of Today!!! - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 782 Old 11-16-2002, 06:42 PM
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Hi Guys........Been abing the 160 to my old dtc100. The pic quality is much better on the sd stuff,and i think its a scootch better on hd. the only problem see is the picture is so much darker on everything. do you all think it can be corrected some way?
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post #182 of 782 Old 11-16-2002, 08:26 PM
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Steve (as well as all others who contributed) ---
This is a fantastic thread, chronicling the pain, frustration and learning we early adopters must go through with something new. This thread is almost like a diary.

My JVC and Sammy are expected to arrive mid week. I've read every single one of the 181 posts, prior to mine. I want to make sure that I've got this right. I plan to use the T165 strictly as a source for the JVC recorder. I already have the Sony HD200 for my real time viewing. I will output the JVC to my system via component and Toslink. I assume that I only need the Firewire connection between the JVC and the T165. Since I'm not using the 165 for normal viewing do I need to make any other output connections? Ken just mentioned, a few posts ago, that the 165 menu can not be viewed through the firewire. So I guess I would need some way to monitor the 165. An empty S-video or composite would suffice. Am I missing anything? I'm assuming no other reason to make any other connections of the 165 to my system.

Steve, your comments would certainly be appreciated. Again, great job with this chronicle.

Ron
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post #183 of 782 Old 11-17-2002, 01:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ron 34238
I plan to use the T165 strictly as a source for the JVC recorder. I already have the Sony HD200 for my real time viewing. I will output the JVC to my system via component and Toslink. I assume that I only need the Firewire connection between the JVC and the T165. Since I'm not using the 165 for normal viewing do I need to make any other output connections? Ken just mentioned, a few posts ago, that the 165 menu can not be viewed through the firewire. So I guess I would need some way to monitor the 165. An empty S-video or composite would suffice. Am I missing anything? I'm assuming no other reason to make any other connections of the 165 to my system.
Just got my setup Thursday....exact to yours and the same purposes. Here are the flaws to your plan, unfortunately my same plan.

First the good news -

The recordings are great. Picks up ABC's digital audio too. You should be pleased with the final outcome.

The JVC has its own menu system. You can use the Navigation program to jump to various programs on a tape, similar to chapter selections on a DVD. Plus you can see remaining time and other features and functions you will use from time to time.

The Bad News -

This menu does not go through the firewire! So if you want it, you need some video out of the JVC. I ran the component at this point, cause I am watching the JVC feed and I like the menu on the 1080i without switching.

The menu system of the Sammy is setup to run the tape player...record, FF, etc. as well as the setup and time recording. However the menu system will not run through the S-Video as reported on a previous post, unless you switch the resolution switch on the back on the T165 to 480i. Which I suspect you must set back to 1080i before you do your recording. I did not test this. Also, I am not sure if you have to pull the S-Video plug out of the box to get the 1080i feed to work to the firewire. The manual said that, I think. I gave up and used it's component out for the time being.

So in essence you need two component's I/O's to run this setup to use all features of each unit. Again there may be a work around but you probably will have to give up some features or switch some switches everytime.


Major Bad News -

Many have spoke about the time recording issue. If you are home and hit record no problem. If you are out to dinner ...good luck. Remember this, the Sammy thinks the time is whatever station you are on and it's reported time code, not the setting you initially register. So even if you figure out the time difference and adjust it may not shut off at the right time.

I'll try to explain. Bear with me. If you set the time when you are on Channel 2 (assuming Channel 2 is the only correct time code) and set the auto timer for 8pm, the box thinks it's 8pm. Good, so far. You can see these time codes while tuned to each station by hitting the "info" button on the remote.

You go make a reservation (time record) while tuned to Channel 2 to set up to record Channel 4 at 8:30 and shut off at 9 ...but Channel 4's time code thinks its 8:15pm (15 minutes later). Clear as mud so far?

The good news it should record at 8:30pm (cause the box is on channel 2 time), the bad news, now it switches to Channel 4 to record so now the box thinks it's 8:45. It's going to shut down at 9:00 Channel 4 time, but real time is 8:45, 15 minutes early. I haven't played with all the different time variations yet, but I'm sure we will get more reports.

I hope this made sense!! and all please chirp in if I got this wrong...it is quite confusing.

Best thing to do is only time record one station and adjust the time for the reported time code on the info button or just stay home and hit record or as some have done, give up and send the Sammy back. Maybe they will come up with a software internal timer fix....I hope. Or:

I called all the LA stations on Friday...hope to get some call backs on Monday to have them set their clocks. Fat chance. PBS and ABC said they would look into it. Fox sent my call to the film lot..nice guy there though. Jerks. KNBC, can you believe it, was the only correct time of the major 5.

...so have fun and report your findings.

I recorded the CBS game today.. WoW!!!
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post #184 of 782 Old 11-17-2002, 08:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by ripster
The Bad News -

The menu system of the Sammy is setup to run the tape player...record, FF, etc. as well as the setup and time recording. However the menu system will not run through the S-Video as reported on a previous post, unless you switch the resolution switch on the back on the T165 to 480i. Which I suspect you must set back to 1080i before you do your recording. I did not test this. Also, I am not sure if you have to pull the S-Video plug out of the box to get the 1080i feed to work to the firewire. The manual said that, I think. I gave up and used it's component out for the time being.

You can actually set the switch on the back of the 165 to 480i and output whatever graphics you need to setup the timer. You can LEAVE IT at 480i and you will STILL get 1080i over the firewire. So your recording will be HD despite the fact that the switch had been set to 480i. I believe that rear switch has no impact at all on firewire.
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post #185 of 782 Old 11-17-2002, 08:34 AM
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Quote:
[i]Originally posted by Ken Ross

I believe that rear switch has no impact at all on firewire. [/b]
that is correct- that is the beauty of the firewire interface-

you still have a separate independent set of stb outputs , including composite/S VID/component/ VGA and DVI

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post #186 of 782 Old 11-17-2002, 09:13 AM
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Ripster - Thanks for the lengthy explanation of the pluses and minuses of my proposed setup. I understand the downfalls of the clock issue. I have not even looked at how bad our local station's clocks are here in the Tampa, FL area. I'll deal with that when the eqt. arrives. I also will certainly report my findings here to this thread.

Ken --

Quote:
Originally posted by Ken Ross
You can actually set the switch on the back of the 165 to 480i and output whatever graphics you need to setup the timer. You can LEAVE IT at 480i and you will STILL get 1080i over the firewire. So your recording will be HD despite the fact that the switch had been set to 480i. I believe that rear switch has no impact at all on firewire.
You and I have essentially the same exact setup, including display. Ken, since my A/V receiver will be all maxed out for inputs, I was considering running a composite line to the Fujitsu 5004 from the T165 strictly for seeing the menu on the 165. According to what you posted above, that should work. So in summary, the only outputs in my proposed setup coming from the 165 would be the Firewire and the composite video. That's it.

Am I correct on that?

Ron

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post #187 of 782 Old 11-17-2002, 09:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by GBPorter
What is the consensus of the quality of the upscaling/3:2 pull down/etc of the 165?
Its ok, but nothing that I'd abandon use of my Dwin Transcanner 2 scaling
NTSC 480i stuff to 720p with my Dwin HD-700 CRT setup, as that is a better, sharper picture for DirecTV and OTA analog non-HD programming.
But for many of you it offers an alternative to buying a line doubler.
You can't expect a product at this retail price point to have an internal line doubler as good as say an I-Scan.

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post #188 of 782 Old 11-17-2002, 09:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by washguy
Hi Guys........Been abing the 160 to my old dtc100. The pic quality is much better on the sd stuff,and i think its a scootch better on hd. the only problem see is the picture is so much darker on everything. do you all think it can be corrected some way?
I DO NOT have that darkness problem with the 165 at all - picture perfectly matches my other Toshiba reciever both for HD and digital channels, and seems as good for analog OTA, too (but I don't watch analog OTA with the DirecTV or Samsung receivers, better picture using trusty JVC S-VHS and D-VHS VCRs). Something else is going on in your system, whether video cables and power cords too close, etc.

And when I had the 160 in my home theater for a brief spell, and now in my family room, it doesn't have any darkness problem at all, either - and in my home theater room, its S-Video picture equalled my several other RCA Ultimate TV and Toshiba DirecTV receiver S-Video sources.

"Doug Winsor" used to troll at some AV Forums as "Steve Bruzonsky"! My home theater at:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1158431
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post #189 of 782 Old 11-17-2002, 09:21 AM
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Ron, you nailed it. Instead of composite, I used the S-video to the Fujitsu. It's really not bad, not as good as having the overlay via firewire but not too bad. I'm basically taping off of one channel, HBO HD, and I know the timing error is 1hr 23 minutes! Hard to believe but true. So it just necessitates me calculating for that 1hr 23 minutes differential and I can use the timer accordingly. What a bizarre way of doing things!
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post #190 of 782 Old 11-17-2002, 09:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ron 34238
Steve (as well as all others who contributed) ---
This is a fantastic thread, chronicling the pain, frustration and learning we early adopters must go through with something new. This thread is almost like a diary.
You figured me out!! The pains and nirvana of early adoption!!! Still, overall, the 165 is a real valuable addition to my system and I do highly recommend it if you want to do OTA recording of digital and HD with a D-VHS VCR!!!

"Doug Winsor" used to troll at some AV Forums as "Steve Bruzonsky"! My home theater at:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1158431
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post #191 of 782 Old 11-17-2002, 09:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ron 34238
My JVC and Sammy are expected to arrive mid week. I've read every single one of the 181 posts, prior to mine. I want to make sure that I've got this right. I plan to use the T165 strictly as a source for the JVC recorder. I already have the Sony HD200 for my real time viewing. I will output the JVC to my system via component and Toslink. I assume that I only need the Firewire connection between the JVC and the T165. Since I'm not using the 165 for normal viewing do I need to make any other output connections? Ken just mentioned, a few posts ago, that the 165 menu can not be viewed through the firewire. So I guess I would need some way to monitor the 165. An empty S-video or composite would suffice. Am I missing anything? I'm assuming no other reason to make any other connections of the 165 to my system.

Steve, your comments would certainly be appreciated. Again, great job with this chronicle.
****I recommend that if you have enough video inputs, that you connect the component video output of the 165 direct to your video display/video processor. Then, when you play D-Theater encoded tapes, you won't have to worry about using the 165 as a controller meaning that you can freely use the JVC's "Navigation" feature without any hitches. And be sure to connect the JVC's toslink direct to your surround processor to be able to get the full "Dolby Digital" for pre-recorded D-Theater tapes as well
(because playing the JVC through the 165 for sound will only give you MPEG stereo on pre-recorded Dolby Digital D-VHS soundtracks).

"Doug Winsor" used to troll at some AV Forums as "Steve Bruzonsky"! My home theater at:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1158431
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post #192 of 782 Old 11-17-2002, 09:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ken Ross
Ron, you nailed it. Instead of composite, I used the S-video to the Fujitsu. It's really not bad, not as good as having the overlay via firewire but not too bad. I'm basically taping off of one channel, HBO HD, and I know the timing error is 1hr 23 minutes! Hard to believe but true. So it just necessitates me calculating for that 1hr 23 minutes differential and I can use the timer accordingly. What a bizarre way of doing things!
Ken-- I know you're using RGB and I run component. I have BOTH component and S-video feeding the Fujitsu. Component is coming from my Extron switcher, and S-video is from my A/V receiver. So my only open input is the composite on the Fujitsu, which should be good enough for merely seeing a menu screen.

I get HBO off of DirecTV, so won't be able to record that. Our cable system does not offer it. I'm interested in taping network HD feeds, particularly PBS and whatever else is broadcast. The timer issue will be an interesting one to address.

Ken -- in some of your earlier posts you seemed quite frustrated and implied that the T165 would not be a long term player in your system. Have you backed off somewhat?

Ron

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post #193 of 782 Old 11-17-2002, 09:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Steve Bruzonsky
****I recommend that if you have enough video inputs, that you connect the component video output of the 165 direct to your video display/video processor. Then, when you play D-Theater encoded tapes, you won't have to worry about using the 165 as a controller meaning that you can freely use the JVC's "Navigation" feature without any hitches. And be sure to connect the JVC's toslink direct to your surround processor to be able to get the full "Dolby Digital" for pre-recorded D-Theater tapes as well
(because playing the JVC through the 165 for sound will only give you MPEG stereo on pre-recorded Dolby Digital D-VHS soundtracks).
Steve: I must be missing something. Are you suggesting that I connect BOTH the component out of the JVC AND the component out of the 165? If I'm just using the 165 as an input source for the JVC, and not for normal viewing, why would I need a component connection? I was considering composite for the sole purpose of seeing the 165 menu. I'm confused.

Maybe this will begin to make more sense once the eqt. arrives and "seeing is believing".

Ron

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post #194 of 782 Old 11-17-2002, 10:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ron 34238
Steve: I must be missing something. Are you suggesting that I connect BOTH the component out of the JVC AND the component out of the 165? If I'm just using the 165 as an input source for the JVC, and not for normal viewing, why would I need a component connection? I was considering composite for the sole purpose of seeing the 165 menu. I'm confused.

Ron
Ron, you are correct, that's all you need. I have the component output of the JVC going to my receiver's component switcher. When playing D-Theater tapes I'm using both the component video output and the optical audio output of the JVC. When playing back HBO recordings, I'm only using the S-video of the 165 for the graphics but continue to use the direct component outputs of the JVC for video and the audio output of the 165 to decode the audio of those HBO broadcasts which the JVC can't. Thus there is no need for a component or VGA output from the 165.
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post #195 of 782 Old 11-17-2002, 10:56 AM
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Hey guys, I know this is off the recording path, but does anybody know what the codes to program the 165 remote to operate my Toshiba TV are? There are no Toshiba TV codes in the manual. No Zenith TV codes either...
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post #196 of 782 Old 11-17-2002, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ken Ross
You can actually set the switch on the back of the 165 to 480i and output whatever graphics you need to setup the timer. You can LEAVE IT at 480i and you will STILL get 1080i over the firewire. So your recording will be HD despite the fact that the switch had been set to 480i. I believe that rear switch has no impact at all on firewire.
What is this switch for, then??
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post #197 of 782 Old 11-17-2002, 12:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ron 34238
Steve: I must be missing something. Are you suggesting that I connect BOTH the component out of the JVC AND the component out of the 165? If I'm just using the 165 as an input source for the JVC, and not for normal viewing, why would I need a component connection? I was considering composite for the sole purpose of seeing the 165 menu. I'm confused.
Ron
The JVC D-VHS deck outputs HD in 1080i, but the "Navigation" menu is output only in 1080i. My reason for connecting the JVC component video out to my Dwin Transcanner 2 is based on my system, because my Dwin Transcanner 2 auto senses the 480i NTSC or HD 1080i over the component video input, and therefore I don't have to change video input when I go from HD to the "Navigation" menu. That probably won't apply for most systems. You need to determine based on this info what works best for you in your own system.

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post #198 of 782 Old 11-17-2002, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by ripster
What is this switch for, then??
The switch is to select HD display resolution. Firewire is not a display output per se, it only moves the bitstream around. The HD display outputs are component, RGB, and DVI.
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post #199 of 782 Old 11-17-2002, 12:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by vruiz
The switch is to select HD display resolution. Firewire is not a display output per se, it only moves the bitstream around. The HD display outputs are component, RGB, and DVI.
This would be used primarily to force a 720P to a 720P display? Rather than a default 1080i...
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post #200 of 782 Old 11-17-2002, 01:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Re the 480i switch on the back of the 165:

First, this is a 1080i/720p/480p/480i switch.

The switch does nothing to the firewire connection, the original digital audio and video info is transferred over the firewire connection regardless of where the switch is set.

The switch does set the resolution output of the component and RGB video outpus of the 165. I can't say about the DVI since I don't have DVI connectors in my system.

The S-Video and composite video outputs of the 165 work regardless of how that switch is set.

So what the heck does the 480i switch do??? It will set the resolution output of the component and RGB video outputs to 480i. Now why the heck would you want to do that?? Few here on AVS Forum would want to do that. But lets say you have a local digital OTA channel with only 480i digital broadcasting, like UPN Ch 26-1 here in Phoenix. As I have my Dwin Transcanner 2 set to scale NTSC 480i to 720p, and as my component input to my Dwin TS2 autosenses 480i for scaling or 480p/720p/1080i for passthrough, I could take that "lousy" picture quality channel and use my own upconversion with my Dwin TS2 to 720p and it will look better than the
480i broadcast upsamped to 1080i or say 480p by the 165.

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post #201 of 782 Old 11-17-2002, 05:54 PM
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Looks like I've got to rid of the Samsung. I've been informed by a friend with high level connections at Cablevision here in N.Y. that they will soon be discontinuing their 8VSB HD service. Since I got this box to record HBO and wasn't particularly interested in recording OTA, there is no longer any reason to keep it. Of course this happened on the same day I finally got all my setup issues resolved. What else is new? :mad:
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post #202 of 782 Old 11-17-2002, 06:16 PM
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Define "soon"? Even if it's only a month or two, that's enough to build a pretty good HD stack. I've only had it for about 10 days and already have about 20 movies in the can, and I've even missed some. I would still keep it until they actually disconnect the 8VSB signal. With the short supply these boxes are in, you'll be able to sell it for close to face value anyway.
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post #203 of 782 Old 11-18-2002, 12:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Tonight I recorded "The Practice" and "American Dreams", but as I was watching other stuff I haven't got around to play with the timer recording yet. But I will!

Playing back "The Practice", I noted that my Theta CB2 was playing in Circle Cinema (based on stereo) rather than "Dolby Digital plus Circle Cinema (based on Dolby Digital 2.0). So I rebooted the 165 and presto, the Dolby Digital came back. I figured this might just be an operating glitch requiring a reboot and for once I was right!

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post #204 of 782 Old 11-18-2002, 10:34 AM
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My t165 is being shipped and I plan to hook it up to my JVC 30k. A couple of questions for Steve and the others who have been so helpful with their information on this thread.
I have only one set of output cables (component video) for use in this arrangement which I plan to connect from the output of one of the units (JVC or Samsung) to my Sharp Z9000 projector, via my Integra Research processor. The way I understand it from reading the posts on this thread, I should connect the component video outputs of the JVC, via the Integra Reseach processor, to the projector. I also will connect the JVC and the Samsung by the firewire (obvious). Then I am assuming that I will be able to watch not only the recorded programs, but the DVHS tapes played by the JVC with all the menus and graphics from both units.
Also, if an off-the-air program has dolby digital, then I am also assuming that its will be recorded on the JVC and outputed, via the JVC, to the processor in dolby digital.
Please let me know if my assumptions are correct and if there are any issues with this arrangement. Thanks in advance.
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post #205 of 782 Old 11-18-2002, 11:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by wbk
My t165 is being shipped and I plan to hook it up to my JVC 30k. A couple of questions for Steve and the others who have been so helpful with their information on this thread.
I have only one set of output cables (component video) for use in this arrangement which I plan to connect from the output of one of the units (JVC or Samsung) to my Sharp Z9000 projector, via my Integra Research processor. The way I understand it from reading the posts on this thread, I should connect the component video outputs of the JVC, via the Integra Reseach processor, to the projector. I also will connect the JVC and the Samsung by the firewire (obvious). Then I am assuming that I will be able to watch not only the recorded programs, but the DVHS tapes played by the JVC with all the menus and graphics from both units.
Also, if an off-the-air program has dolby digital, then I am also assuming that its will be recorded on the JVC and outputed, via the JVC, to the processor in dolby digital.
Please let me know if my assumptions are correct and if there are any issues with this arrangement. Thanks in advance.

If you only have room for one set of HD video cables for both the 165 and JVC, then you may want to connect the 165 via component to your video setup. Then you don't need to have the JVC on when you're not recording.
Or you may connect the JVC via component to your video setup, and then you need th JVC on whenever you watch OTA stuff with the 165 but don't record.

If you connect component from the 165 then you'll see the 165's menu on screen, but not the JVC's menu which doesn't pass firewire. If you connect component from the JVC then you'll see the JVC's menu on screen, but not the 165's menu which doesn't pass firewire.

If you by chance have multiple component, or a 15 pin HD video input, then you can connect both the Samsung and the JVC. This gives you the ultimate flexibility.

But you should also connect both the toslink from the JVC and either the coaxial or toslink from the 165 (because D-Theater tapes played through the Samsung will only play back in MPEG stereo, not Dolby Digital, but the JVC toslink connection will always give you the original source including
Dolby Digital).

"Doug Winsor" used to troll at some AV Forums as "Steve Bruzonsky"! My home theater at:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1158431
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post #206 of 782 Old 11-18-2002, 12:11 PM
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I recently got my SIR-T165, and it has a really high-pitched whine, not real loud,
that nevertheless will make me purchase an enclosed component stand rather
than an open-shelf component stand.

Does anyone else hear this high pitch (around 10-15Khz)?

My RPTV-based "Narnia Theater"
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post #207 of 782 Old 11-18-2002, 12:28 PM
 
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One question, which I don't think has yet been asked/answered is:

If you already have a T-150, and add a T-165 to your rack for recording HDTV on a JVC30K only, can the T-150's remote operate the T-150 without also changing the T-165's settings at the same time? And, vice versa?
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post #208 of 782 Old 11-18-2002, 12:49 PM
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Steve,
I know you have addressed the upscaling quality as compared to your Dwin but can you comment as to the quality of upscaled SDTV and 480i inputs as compared to other HD tuners such as the Tosh DST3000, Dish600, etc.? Is it bad or just far below what you are accustomed to seeing with your Dwin?

Rick
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post #209 of 782 Old 11-18-2002, 12:50 PM
 
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DAMN, DAMN, DAMNIT!!!

I just got off the phone with Samsung, and anyone who is using another Samsung HDTV Tuner with their new T-165 is gonna have problems controlling them. Apparently, your remote(from either tuner) is gonna control both tuners at the same time. Individual unit operation via remote control is not possible. If both units "see" the IR signal from either remote, they both will follow what the remote tells them.

So... this means that in order to use the T-165 with a remote control, you'll need your other HD Tuner to be a different brand than a Samsung...

This T-165/30K recording is just getting to be more trouble than it is worth... :(
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post #210 of 782 Old 11-18-2002, 04:33 PM
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I am anxious to get home and hook mine up. It arrived today via fedex. I ordered it from AVDeals.com. Great price and I only had to wait about two weeks from the date I ordered it. I will be using it with a Mits ws55859 Net Command TV. I sure hope this thing does what it advertises to do. I also have a Mits Digital DVHS VCR. I don't expect it will be able to talk with the SIR T-165 but who knows.
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