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post #91 of 4086 Old 12-09-2002, 03:10 PM
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Hello Folks,

I just had Comcast HD installed in the Detroit area today. I am currently viewing regular channels through the coax cable. However, I am not able to see the channel changing menu when I do this. Does anyone else have this problem? Is there a fix to this problem?

The settings on the 5100 are:

Software - 50.00-1078
Firmware - 00

Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

gammite
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post #92 of 4086 Old 12-09-2002, 05:02 PM
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Quote:


The settings on the 5100 are
Software - 50.00-1078
Firmware - 00 :

Gammite,

I live in NJ and I got the update a few weeks ago. Looks like your S/W version is different. Another thing, if you are viewing the regular channels through the coax, and not the box, then of course you wont see the menu displayed. The signal has to run through the box in order to identify the channel. My settings are
S/W Version 51.00-1132
Firmware :00
Call your local CC office and ask when they are sending the update to your area. Hope this helps

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post #93 of 4086 Old 12-09-2002, 07:39 PM
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Hello Mr. Mayor and you other citizens,

In order to clarify, I am viewing analog channels through the coax output on my HD box. This seems to be a cleaner signal when viewing analog signals vs. the component, s-video or composite conncections on the 5100. When I had the DCT-2000 I was able to view the menu through the coax output of the cable box. For some reason I cannot seem to get a menu through the coax output of the DCT-5100. Can anyone help me here?

Thanks in advance,

gammite
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post #94 of 4086 Old 12-10-2002, 07:56 AM
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miatasm,

Are you still on for the Motorola 5100 rep? If so, I'd like to know how to enable and display from the video input on the back of the unit. This would be great for all of us who are happy with home calibration results from AVIA, VE, S&V, etc.

We could output from a DVD, have the unit upconvert and make service/user menu changes so that we can have the best picture the same way we do with DVD players as sources for the HDTV content.

Thanks,

Sam

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post #95 of 4086 Old 12-10-2002, 08:06 AM
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Looks like Nashville launched the software upgrade this morning.

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post #96 of 4086 Old 12-10-2002, 08:39 AM
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miatasm,

If you're talking to the 5100 rep, I'm having the following problem (I believe only since the upgrade).

When I IR-blast from my ReplayTV to the 5100, there are circumstances where the channel change does not take place. I have since duplicated it with manual remote keystrokes.

Entering a 3-digit channel, it won't "take" the first time. The display will show the first two digits, then the third digit seems to immediately return the channel to whatever it had been tuned on. The next time I enter the channel, it invariably (over 20 trials, anyway) works. It's an irritation manually, but a killer when it makes me record the wrong channel.

I have gone into a "secret" menu on the ReplayTV, and fiddled with the delays on sending channels over the IR blaster. I've varied the delays from 0 to 1000 milliseconds with the same results.

There are instances where the channel change works correctly. I have not determined what, if any, consistent differences there are in the works-well state and the works-sucky state.

FWIW, channel up/down work perfectly, but that of course doesn't help me with the ReplayTV. I'm afraid that I'm going to have to record a bogus time-slice right before my desired show in order to transmit the channel twice -- that's worse than going back to a VCR for time-shifting.

Any help from Motorola or others is sincerely appreciated.

Claude
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post #97 of 4086 Old 12-10-2002, 09:06 AM
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To Miatasm,

My issues, in no particular order:

- Red push on non-hd channels when box is outputting 1080i
- Volume output from the box is very low relative to other inputs into my A/V receiver. This may be a Comcast issue, as the older box also had a very low output. I like to listen to my music loudly, and a few times I've maxed out my receiver's volume when I was listening to Comcast's Music Choice channels, and it didn't even come close to the dB level of the DVD or CD inputs.
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post #98 of 4086 Old 12-10-2002, 10:09 AM
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Miatasm,

I'm back with more

In addition to the volume output issue which I share with the other posters, it appears to me that HD content especially, and all the channels generally appear dark. A caveat is that I have a new TV which isn't fully tweaked yet, but the other inputs on the TV don't share this "darkness."

Thanks in advance for your efforts.

Claude
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post #99 of 4086 Old 12-10-2002, 10:18 AM
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Clauded

I share your opinion on the darkness issue, particularly with the NBC TV broadcasts of Law & Order and Crossing Jordan.

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post #100 of 4086 Old 12-10-2002, 03:52 PM
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GG2, I'm sure if you tried this already but I'll throw it out there anyways. Under Menu>setup> then Audio there is an option for compression. If I move it to heavy the audio gets louder which seems kinda back-wards. Does this make sense to anyone, if I am compressing the sound why would it get louder. I am under the impression that compressed music or sounds is just removing the inaudible frequencies. Maybe someone can explain it better.



Quote:


Originally posted by GG2
- Volume output from the box is very low relative to other inputs into my A/V receiver. This may be a Comcast issue, as the older box also had a very low output. I like to listen to my music loudly, and a few times I've maxed out my receiver's volume when I was listening to Comcast's Music Choice channels, and it didn't even come close to the dB level of the DVD or CD inputs.

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post #101 of 4086 Old 12-10-2002, 04:16 PM
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I have several of the issues listed above:
- red push on 1080i output
- low sound output on analog stations
- 3 digit channel change on Sony pre-programed remote only takes two of three numbers.
- analog stations video quality is very poor in comparison to old digital cable box or cable being plugged directly into RPTV.

I hope these issues are fixed!
-T.Wells


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post #102 of 4086 Old 12-10-2002, 09:18 PM
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miatasm,

One more problem, though not a major one:

As the upgrade intended, the guide/info bar is now available on the 480i outputs even if the component output is not 480i. But if the 5100 is tuned into an HD channel, the guide/info bar does not appear on the 480i outputs. The same is true for the display of channel numbers when they are keyed on the remote.

(If component output is set to 480i, this problem does not occur.)


Thanks.
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post #103 of 4086 Old 12-11-2002, 07:14 AM
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Thomas1,

You are correct, I tried all the audio setup options on the box, and it's still nowhere near "loud" The audio setup menus on the 5100 are the same as on the old digital MOT box.
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post #104 of 4086 Old 12-11-2002, 08:24 AM
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T. Wells & miatasm,

If I'm not mistaken, the channel change problem is not only with ReplayTV or programmed remotes. It happens also with the 5100's remote. The strangest thing is it seems to work every other time. Up/Down channel works perfectly every time, but entering the channel # has this problem.

If Motorola has a list of codes for various popular devices (e.g., ReplayTV, Tivo, various remotes, etc.) it would be quite a boon for us.

Thanks,
Claude
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post #105 of 4086 Old 12-11-2002, 10:02 AM
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Comcast installed my 5100 on Monday with the firmware update already installed. I agree that the analog channels are not as clear as on the DCT-2000. I kept my DCT-2000 to use with my Replay and when I switch between the two the difference is clearly noticeable. The SD channels on the 5100 also appear darker. Haven't noticed any audio sync problems yet.

I have a question that is slightly off-topic. Instead of using a splitter on the coax to go to the 5100 and the 2000 I tried to use the RF bypass feature on the 2000 to route the signal to the 5100. I turn on "RF Bypass" in the setup on the 2000, but no matter what combination of connections I make on the 2000, I can't get this feature to work. Has anyone been able to get this working?
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post #106 of 4086 Old 12-11-2002, 04:05 PM
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Ok I'm still meeting with Motorola tomorrow morning. I will be armed with this post and some e-mails I have recieved regaurding specific issues.

I do have some questions though on the above posts:

Red Push.

Does a mass majority of you notice this "red push", or is it just the few that have listed it here? I'm asking because some might think they are seeing a red push because they are now looking for it because its been posted here. (sorta of like someone telling you that they have seen an awful lot of red cars on the road, now you start to notice all red cars that drive by, making you think there are more red cars on the road)

I've had four 5100's in my possession and have installed & serviced over 50 more in the field and have yet to notice any "red push" on any of them. Could you point me to a specific instance where this occurs possibly on the PBS loop, or does it happen on every HD channel all of the time? And in any cases has this been your only 5100, or have you had more than one and it was the same with both?

Audio

T.Wells --- Are you sure you mean LOW Audio output on Analog & not Digital?

I've done some more testing and this is what I have found:

The audio set up menu (which is the same as the 2000) does not effect the audio output on analog channels at all regaurdless of your method of audio transfer (SPDIF, RF, L/R analog)

It seems, the setup menu only changes audio output when watching a digital channel through an analog output (L/R, or RF). This means the box does nothing to the audio when it goes through the SPDIF outputs, on Digital channels. Does this sound correct?

Another test I did was to compare audio output volume from 3 different sources:

Samsung sir-t150 OTA HD decoder using Optical Audio & L/R (ana)
Panasonic DVD/VCR Player using Coax Digital Audio & L/R (ana)
Motorola DCT5100 using Optical Audio & L/R (ana)
All running through an Onkyo TX-SR600 A/V receiver

Samsung Decoder had NO volume difference between Digital & Analog
Samsung Decoder & DCT5100 had NO volume difference between the same broadcast stations ABC, NBC, PBS
Panasonic DVD/VCR had no difference between Digital & Analog
DCT5100 had a 10 db (+/- 3db) INCREASE between Digital channels & Analog Channels on the Optical output
DCT5100 had a SIMILAR volume output between Digital channels & Analog Channels when the L/R analog output was used and the Compression (Audio setup menu) was set to Heavy, any other selection in the audio setup menu revealed a LOWER volume on the Digital channels as the Analog channels continued to stay at the same volume.

Through all of the tests the volume on the receiver was exactly the same and the Processor was set to Pro-Logic II & Stereo with no changes in results.

It seems that the 5100 is doing something to the volume of the Audio on the SPDIF outputs but only on the analog channels. Anyone else do any testing similar to this?

HDTV Darkness.

I have noticed that the HD channels are darker than the Analog of the same broadcast but this is also true on my Samsung OTA Decoder. There is no difference in Picture Brightness/Darkness between my 5100 & Samsung, they are EXACTLY the same. I always thought that HD programming was generally Darker so it can look Truer, Warmer, Better, ect. Can anyone back this up with Raw Data?

Problem Entering Channels.

I haven't noticed this on my setup, but I will bring it up. Is this happening only using the IR Blast on the 5100?

The remotes that are used are supplied to us by One For All and most of their codes are the same, for most of their models so try there first.

Enabling the Video inputs on the 5100.

I believe these are in the works, I will find out tomm.

Stretching / Zooming the Letterboxed -- 4:3 broadcasts.

I've heard that Motorola may be doing another firmware update to allow you to stretch the 4:3 material to fit your widescreen TV, but I haven't heard anything about zooming. I think this is something that is up in the air. As you have all probably noticed most TV manufactures have decided not to let the consumer modify 720 or 1080. by using their zoom or stretch functions when the TV sees a 720 or 1080 signal. (Mitsubishi being the only exception, I know of). I don't know the reasoning for this, but when I saw a Mitsu stretch a 4:3 Broadcast from one of the 5100's HD channels the picture looked very distorted. It was better than the Analog picture as far as detail but was annoying to look at.

When Motorola did the update it never actually changed the ability of the box to output Graphic overlays onto all outputs, the Analog outputs still DO NOT get Graphic Overlays when the box is in 1080i. So essentially they made one straight forward change to fix multiple problems at about 97% effectiveness. Rather than making 3-4 different changes for 100% effectiveness.

Analog Picture

Its still bad. It got better after the update, but still not near the PQ of the Sidecar & the 2000. I can see the Analog PQ is much better on Direct View & 4:3 televisions, but this is generally a given anyway when view 4:3 material.

If there is anything else please post it by Midnight tonight 12/11. I will be printing it out around then. I will post what I found out from the rep. tomorrow.


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post #107 of 4086 Old 12-11-2002, 04:14 PM
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miatasm,

The channel entry problem using ReplayTV seems to be fixed when using ReplayTV code 0476 for the Motorola. Since 0276 also "seemed" to work, and occurs earlier in the discovery process, I think many people will try the wrong code. So far, so good with 0476.
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post #108 of 4086 Old 12-11-2002, 04:26 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by ClaudeD
miatasm,

The problem using ReplayTV seems to be fixed when using ReplayTV code 0476 for the Motorola. Since 0276 also "seemed" to work, and occurs earlier in the discovery process, I think many people will try the wrong code. So far, so good with 0476.

Thats good to hear.


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post #109 of 4086 Old 12-11-2002, 04:50 PM
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Miatasm,

Further to your question about the dark picture: I was also accustomed to HD generally looking darker (on a Samsung SIR-T150). It generally seems to me that HD is a "broader" range, with warm blacks like a good film can have. However, it does seem a bit darker than I expected. A caveat: I am showing this on a new set which has not been ISFed or otherwise calibrated. For a number of reasons having nothing to do with the 5100, I haven't had a chance to investigate the darkness issue on my projector. FWIW, my wife hasn't complained about the darkness factor

In any case, on behalf of myself and the other users, I want to thank you for being so involved in the Quality Assurance of the 5100.

Best regards,
Claude
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post #110 of 4086 Old 12-11-2002, 05:11 PM
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guys,

Sorry to get off the topic....has anyone noticed the NBC HD broadcast of "Ed" right now, is not coming through on channel 181. The NBC peacock logo is on the bottom right corner of the screen but there is no picture! This is Comcast cable.......perhaps the rain is affecting it

Miatasm, I second Clauded's thanks for your efforts with this.


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post #111 of 4086 Old 12-11-2002, 05:22 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Mr. Mayor
guys,

Sorry to get off the topic....has anyone noticed the NBC HD broadcast of "Ed" right now, is not coming through on channel 181. The NBC peacock logo is on the bottom right corner of the screen but there is no picture! This is Comcast cable.......perhaps the rain is affecting it

Miatasm, I second Clauded's thanks for your efforts with this.


Mr. Mayor

I just checked OTA and couldn't pick up anything on CBS(antenna is optimized for CBS)....But I just checked again and my 5100 is giving me Ed but its in 4:3.


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post #112 of 4086 Old 12-11-2002, 05:24 PM
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NBC HD broadcast of "Ed" right now, is not coming through on channel 181.

its on in Montgomery cty MD - so a local problem

Different question - what do the compression settings do for the audio and where should it be left for best effect (none or max - or light?)
I am using the SP/DIF - in this case do these settings make no difference as the receiver is doing all the decoding?
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post #113 of 4086 Old 12-11-2002, 05:27 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by RalphArch
its on in Montgomery cty MD - so a local problem

Different question - what do the compression settings do for the audio and where should it be left for best effect (none or max - or light?)
I am using the SP/DIF - in this case do these settings make no difference as the receiver is doing all the decoding?

As noticed in my testing these setting have NO effect when using SPDIF outputs. And only have an effect on Digital Channel Audio when using analog.


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post #114 of 4086 Old 12-11-2002, 05:42 PM
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correction on Ed - its on in 4*3 on both WRC and WBAL OTA and COMCAST in Montgomery MD - TitanTV must be off or the ice storm has had an effect

While watching WBAL the picture froze and I lost the audio for a couple minutes. Really interesting as I was listening on COMCAST (WRC feed using SPDIF) and the audio and video both came back simulateously so must have been a national feed problem
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post #115 of 4086 Old 12-11-2002, 07:20 PM
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I do believe I saw red push on the HD channels. I also had someone over and they said something on HD HBO looked very red and something on HD ABC. Switching to the analog version it wasn't red. But later that night I watched Sopranos and didn't notice it at all. So it might be just a source problem and not the 5100.

The analog channel quality is the real problem IMHO.

Thanks again for your efforts in taking our concerns to motorola.
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post #116 of 4086 Old 12-11-2002, 07:35 PM
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miatasm,

I use the analog L/R output on my upstairs system. The 5100 user guide doesn't discuss the audio beyond very basic information. It would be useful to have a description of what the Audio settings do, for example, what TV is as opposed to Stereo (I can figure out what Matrix stereo is). There's also the setting "Optimize stereo volume" or something similar, which I can't seem to set to anything but "Yes." Over time, I'll figure it out, but my time for experimentation is affected by having 4 kids, a job with a commute, etc

On the component cable situation, I kept quiet when some people were complaining about the techs coming without component cables. However, when I buy a DVD player, a TV, etc., I don't expect component cables to come in the box even if the device has component outs. I didn't expect it with the 5100, and I purchased a set of cables before the installer showed up. It was one of the first installations, and sure enough, it's a good thing I had the cables. FWIW, the installer knew enough to use component rather than composite.

I guess when you're borrowing/renting equipment rather than purchasing, it's nice to have the cables provided.
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post #117 of 4086 Old 12-11-2002, 07:51 PM
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Quote:


On the component cable situation, I kept quiet when some people were complaining about the techs coming without component cables. However, when I buy a DVD player, a TV, etc., I don't expect component cables to come in the box even if the device has component outs. I didn't expect it with the 5100, and I purchased a set of cables before the installer showed up. It was one of the first installations, and sure enough, it's a good thing I had the cables. FWIW, the installer knew enough to use component rather than composite.

I needed a transcoder - so had ordered the $160 Audio Authority and was pleasantly surprised that it came with component cables - as did the COMCAST technician with another set. And so much happier when I sent the transcoder back to exchange for a Key Digital to get 1080i in addition to 480p - and that more expensive transcoder did not come with cables so I was saved $$ by COMCAST policy which had provided the component cables.
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post #118 of 4086 Old 12-11-2002, 08:07 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by ClaudeD
miatasm,

I use the analog L/R output on my upstairs system. The 5100 user guide doesn't discuss the audio beyond very basic information. It would be useful to have a description of what the Audio settings do, for example, what TV is as opposed to Stereo (I can figure out what Matrix stereo is). There's also the setting "Optimize stereo volume" or something similar, which I can't seem to set to anything but "Yes." Over time, I'll figure it out, but my time for experimentation is affected by having 4 kids, a job with a commute, etc

On the component cable situation, I kept quiet when some people were complaining about the techs coming without component cables. However, when I buy a DVD player, a TV, etc., I don't expect component cables to come in the box even if the device has component outs. I didn't expect it with the 5100, and I purchased a set of cables before the installer showed up. It was one of the first installations, and sure enough, it's a good thing I had the cables. FWIW, the installer knew enough to use component rather than composite.

I guess when you're borrowing/renting equipment rather than purchasing, it's nice to have the cables provided.

I couldn't tell you exactly what the Audio Settings mean either...I can only guess that TV means a mono signal directly split to each left & right speaker so its not true stereo but you get sound from two speakers. Stereo is obvious......The compression, however, I have no idea what exactly it does, but it seems to be the only one that makes any difference in the sound...go figure.

I can tell you what the "optimize stereo volume" means. The 5100 (as well as the 2000) have the ability to control the volume of the output of the box. This is used for OLD TV's that don't have a remote control for Volume. It basically works like a an attenuator for the outputs of the box. The "optimize stereo volume" setting sets that volume setting to the "normal" setting. By normal I mean what the boxes volume would be if that feature wasn't avail., a "pass-through" if you will. Its called Volume Lock. You can see what I mean if you use your remote from Comcast and do the following keystorkes:

Press & Hold Setup til' the light flashes
Then Press 9 - 9 - 3
Then Press the "Cable" Button
Now if you press Volume Up or Down
You should notice that there is now a volume bar that is at the top of your screen and at a certain point it says "Stereo" or "Best Stereo" that point is the "optimized stereo volume". Kind of hard to explain in words but I think you get the idea.

About the cables I sat back for a while and didn't say anything about the posts going up complaining about the lack of correct cables. Then I had to post here after one guy basically ripped Comcast (deserved) and the technician (not deserved) for not having them. But you are exactly right about this situation.


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post #119 of 4086 Old 12-11-2002, 08:26 PM
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You could also ask about 1394 output, eventually.....

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post #120 of 4086 Old 12-11-2002, 08:33 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by CKarras
You could also ask about 1394 output, eventually.....

We all know where this will go, but I will ask.


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