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post #181 of 4086 Old 12-18-2002, 07:46 AM
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miatasm,
That's what I'm doing now, which is perfect for my projector. My question then is, with it set to
"off" will I be able to see the guide through a composite/s-video connection?
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post #182 of 4086 Old 12-18-2002, 07:48 AM
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Miatasm (and others):

If the 4:3 Override option is picked, how does this affect the analog outputs. More specifically, would setting the box to 480i allow the guide to be shown on non-HD channels through the s-video output, and still switch to 1080i on HD channels through the component out?

Thanks,

jdp
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post #183 of 4086 Old 12-18-2002, 07:56 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by joe12south
miatasm,
That's what I'm doing now, which is perfect for my projector. My question then is, with it set to
"off" will I be able to see the guide through a composite/s-video connection?

Nope. Sorry. It maybe apart of the next Firmware upgrade though.....

Quote:


Miatasm (and others):

If the 4:3 Override option is picked, how does this affect the analog outputs. More specifically, would setting the box to 480i allow the guide to be shown on non-HD channels through the s-video output, and still switch to 1080i on HD channels through the component out?

Thanks,

jdp

Yes it will display guide and menu on non-HD channels viewed through any analog output (RF, Composite, S-video)


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post #184 of 4086 Old 12-18-2002, 08:07 AM
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Miatasm,
Is there a way (other than bothering you) to get feedback/feature requests/bug reports to someone in-the-know at Moto?
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post #185 of 4086 Old 12-18-2002, 08:47 AM
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Quote:


Once your cable company updates the box' software/firmware, you'll be able to do it. The software version is 51.00-1132. There will be a setting labeled "4:3 OVERRIDE". If that is set to 480i, the guide is available on the composite/s-video outputs.

Yeah, I'd finally figured that out. I had the upgrade but had set the 4:3 override to 480p. I rarely use the box for composite analog out anyway so I thought it just didn't work with the menus. But 480i output does work with the menus, as I just found out by hooking it up to DScaler.

Just guessing, but I think maybe what is happening is the 5100 is capable of generating menus (overlay graphics) on any resolution now, but only on one at a time. So if the component outputs happen to be on 480i then it has something useable to also display on composite outputs.

But they need to be able to generate overlay graphics on 2 different resolutions at the same time to support both component and composite menus at different resolutions. I hope the box has that hardware capability so it can be added in a future software update.

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post #186 of 4086 Old 12-18-2002, 09:59 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by joe12south
Miatasm,
Is there a way (other than bothering you) to get feedback/feature requests/bug reports to someone in-the-know at Moto?

Post them here. Motorola is watching.......


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post #187 of 4086 Old 12-18-2002, 10:49 AM
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Closed captioning on the 5100 has some odd limitations, and some things which just seem wrong. For me they are just annoyances, but for the hearing impaired some of these problems would be serious.

The first glaring problem with CC from the cable box is that enabling it requires you to go into the service menu. On the HDD-200, it used to be enabled by pressing a button on the front of the sidecar.

The second problem with the cable box is that the CC appears only on the YPbPr output on SD channels, unless 480i override is enabled. I suppose this is the same problem that prevents the guide from appearing except in 480i mode.

The third problem is the CC appears only on the YPbPr output on HD channels, even in 480i override mode.

The fourth thing is not a problem, but a feature request. It would be really nice if you could choose where you want the captions to appear. In particular it would be nice if you could put the captions inside the letterboxed area of a SD frame.

There are two ways to enable captioning: using the 5100, or using the TV. Using the TV is usually preferable, because the CC stays visible on the screen no matter which zoom and fill modes are in use. Unfortunately, the CC information seems to be 'swallowed' by the 5100 box unless 480i override is enabled, even on the YPbPr outputs. In 480i override mode, the TV's CC works OK in SD, but it does not work when watching a HD station.

The combination of limitations makes it impossible for me to use CC in the one situation where I want it: West Wing. It is shown on Comcast channel 181 (WCAU-DT) as an upconvert. If I switch to S-Video or antenna output, the 480i override crops the pillarboxing, and I can then use my TV's fill mode to eliminate the letterboxing. So the picture occupies the whole screen, but there is no way to see closed captioning from either the 5100 or the TV.
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post #188 of 4086 Old 12-18-2002, 11:00 AM
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I tried the 9-9-3 tweak for controlling audio level. I know I did it right, because I can see the display on the screen showing the level going up and down when I change volume on the cable remote. However, it has no effect on the actual sound volume in my case. It has no effect on any sound source.

I get the sound out from the cable box using a digital coaxial (SPDIF) cable. Is it supposed affect the level for any output, or only analog outputs?
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post #189 of 4086 Old 12-18-2002, 11:19 AM
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I'm pretty sure none of the audio controls do anything to the digital outputs, as is the case with almost all hardware.
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post #190 of 4086 Old 12-18-2002, 11:54 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by ianken
I think most of us are seeing this problem. Best solution is a menu option to tweak it. It's either a black level or gamma issue. Not sure which. The MOtorola HDD-200 HD side car has trhe same problem.

I'm certainly no expert, so if I'm offbase here certainly feel free to let me know, but isn't this issue directly related to the fact that true HD is transmitted with black level at 0 IRE where SD is transmitted with black level at 7.5 IRE?

An easy way to verify this would be to use the expanded black level setting (0 IRE) on your DVD player, calibrate your black level using Avia/VE and then see how the black level looks on HD broadcasts. I would suspect you will find the black levels are then appropriately set for HD, but regardless it would be interesting to read posted here the results of such a test.


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post #191 of 4086 Old 12-18-2002, 12:05 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by joe12south
I'm pretty sure none of the audio controls do anything to the digital outputs, as is the case with almost all hardware.

Thats correct, it effects only analog.


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post #192 of 4086 Old 12-18-2002, 12:07 PM
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Quote:


I tried the 9-9-3 tweak for controlling audio level. I know I did it right, because I can see the display on the screen showing the level going up and down when I change volume on the cable remote. However, it has no effect on the actual sound volume in my case. It has no effect on any sound source.

I get the sound out from the cable box using a digital coaxial (SPDIF) cable. Is it supposed affect the level for any output,or only analog outputs?

I am also using the SP/DIF output. You have to program the Motorola remote with your receiver's code for it to properly control the volume before you take the above steps. I am using a Pioneeer 810 - but you have to go to the All-for-One remote site that is listed (inside the remote?) and I had to try a variety of the Pioneer reciever codes for a variety of remotes since the COMCAST unit is not listed, until I found the one that works with the COMCAST remote. Then, when Audio button is pushed, you can change the reciever's mode with "Music" button, and change volume and turn power on and off when Audio is selected.

The above procedure allows you to additionally change the receiver volume when cable is selected (or TV for that matter- the change is universal to control the receiver volume); a Godsend in that you don't need two remotes and don't need to switch between cable and audio.

Now if they would just change the all-on button to include the receiver as well as the TV and the Motorola box.....

Plus if they would let us know if there are other Easter Eggs....
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post #193 of 4086 Old 12-18-2002, 12:28 PM
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In case COMCAST or Motorola is listening

In addition to the above discussion about HD capable digital black level being too low relative to the regular digital channels; the same is true of the base sound level. I am using SP/DIF and I need to adjust the sound upwards whenever switching to these channels. If the HD can't be adjusted up then at least the others should be set down so there is not an automatic need to adjust volume every time you switch to these channels.
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post #194 of 4086 Old 12-18-2002, 02:23 PM
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I am in the Seattle area & AT&T(Comcast) installed the 5100 box yesterday. 3guys came and they were all in training, so I had to install it myself, they acted like they had never seen a system with 10 different units going into the back of my receiver. Anyway, I have the red tint in the video, regular channels ar not as good as they were & the channel guide "sucks". My numbers on the updates seem to be different than whats here on this forum(they are:firmware 2.14, bootloader 2.15) I can't find the software #, how do I do that? I dont believe I have an updated box, but really not sure! Any help would be appreciated!
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post #195 of 4086 Old 12-18-2002, 03:19 PM
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I definatly notice red push since the box was installed. This is compared to Directv which I just switched from last weekend. It is most noticeable on analog channels, somewhat less with the digital channels and very much less noticeable on HD channels.

On another note I have lost the guide completely again (meaning I click on the guide button and only see a brief flash on the receiver display and thats it). It happened Sunday into Monday and then self corrected Monday evening. All fine Tues and the same problem today. Tech is coming out to investigate tomorrow

rb (Detroit,MI
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post #196 of 4086 Old 12-18-2002, 03:58 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by danstone
I'm certainly no expert, so if I'm offbase here certainly feel free to let me know, but isn't this issue directly related to the fact that true HD is transmitted with black level at 0 IRE where SD is transmitted with black level at 7.5 IRE?

An easy way to verify this would be to use the expanded black level setting (0 IRE) on your DVD player, calibrate your black level using Avia/VE and then see how the black level looks on HD broadcasts. I would suspect you will find the black levels are then appropriately set for HD, but regardless it would be interesting to read posted here the results of such a test.

Danstone,

What you say makes sense, but a number of people have had ISF calibrated sets and/or migrated from other HD sources (DirectTV, OTA, etc.) where the problem didn't exist. I personally thought that in my case the issue was a) my set is as of yet not professionally calibrated and b) my previous HD viewing at home was on an LCD projector, which unfortunately can't really "do black." However, it is my inclination to think that the picture is overly dark. As a result, I'm not going to have my set calibrated until the 5100 software "settles down," and no software releases are planned that might affect the image in terms of gamma, black level, etc.
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post #197 of 4086 Old 12-18-2002, 05:57 PM
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I am not sure as I have not looked hard enough but a test pattern would be great for Comcast. Do I have to stay up late for this? If so what channel? I vote for a calibration channel. Extremely important

Also, is there a way to reassign the digital local channels to represent what they really are? (2, 4, 7 etc) To be honest this should be seemless and just appear as another channel 2, 4, or 7

My Directv receiver did this in a fashion where they were located in the relative area of the local channels (7-1, 4-1) and you could cancel out the analog channels to make it transparent when surfing.

Who wants to learn another channel when it already exists? For those here its not so bad but the wife and kids who KNOW what channels their favorite shows are on it makes the difference. Channel 7, not 180-190

rb
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post #198 of 4086 Old 12-18-2002, 05:58 PM
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fore.aces
I also have 2.14. Am planning on calling AT&T sometime today to let them know of all the issues the new box has. Will also ask when they are expecting the new software.....
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post #199 of 4086 Old 12-18-2002, 06:15 PM
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I would make the suggestion to Comcast that they put either the Video Essentials disc or Avia on their video-on-demand (VOD) menu. I certainly would pay to calibrate my system using those sources.
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post #200 of 4086 Old 12-18-2002, 06:34 PM
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Quote:


I would make the suggestion to Comcast that they put either the Video Essentials disc or Avia on their video-on-demand (VOD) menu. I certainly would pay to calibrate my system using those sources.

You me and a maybe two other geeks would pay. ;-) The vast majority of people don't give a crap ... not really worth the effort on Comcast's part!

Broadcasting a simple 480p test pattern and adding some basic user controls (contrast, brightness and color) to the 5100 would suffice. The cost and bandwith to broadcast that would be minimal. (Assuming Moto would add the controls to the box.)
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post #201 of 4086 Old 12-19-2002, 08:41 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by joe12south
You me and a maybe two other geeks would pay. ;-) The vast majority of people don't give a crap ... not really worth the effort on Comcast's part!

Broadcasting a simple 480p test pattern and adding some basic user controls (contrast, brightness and color) to the 5100 would suffice. The cost and bandwith to broadcast that would be minimal. (Assuming Moto would add the controls to the box.)

I asked Motorola and when the Video Inputs are activated they WILL upconvert to the component output. This will enable you to run your DVD player through the 5100 with a VE or Avia, and calibrate that input on your TV. But they do not have the go ahead on the activation, yet. This would be alot easier, then trying to integrate Brightness, Contrast & color controls into the 5100.


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post #202 of 4086 Old 12-19-2002, 08:58 AM
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miatasm,
That's a nice feature, but it really doesn't address the issue of being able to calibrate a DVD player and a 5100 separately.

I think a fairly typical installation is going to be a component 5100 and a component DVD player feeding one display. If I calibrate my display for the 5100, my DVD's will be washed out. If I calibrate my display for the DVD player, then my HD will be too dark.

I know that it's not trvial to do, but if Motorola really wants to get this right they need to add basic picture controls.
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post #203 of 4086 Old 12-19-2002, 09:01 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by RalphArch
You have to program the Motorola remote with your receiver's code for it to properly control the volume before you take the above steps.

I want to use the 9-9-3 tweak too!

I am using an Onkyo TXSR-500 receiver. How do I find out the appropriate receiever code so I can program the Motorola remote? Anyone know what it is?

Then, once I have the code....how do I program the code in?
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post #204 of 4086 Old 12-19-2002, 09:22 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by ClaudeD
What you say makes sense, but a number of people have had ISF calibrated sets and/or migrated from other HD sources (DirectTV, OTA, etc.) where the problem didn't exist. I personally thought that in my case the issue was a) my set is as of yet not professionally calibrated and b) my previous HD viewing at home was on an LCD projector, which unfortunately can't really "do black." However, it is my inclination to think that the picture is overly dark. As a result, I'm not going to have my set calibrated until the 5100 software "settles down," and no software releases are planned that might affect the image in terms of gamma, black level, etc.

It's also interesting to note that it was discussed in some of the other forums about overly dark blacks in HD using the DVHS decks and CRT front projectors so I'm not sure the problem is something exclusive to the Motorola box and/or cable transmission. I seem to recall a solution was finally found for the overly dark DVHS picture so perhaps a review of that thread may be in order to see if anything may be of help here. If I can find anything that seems relevant I'll post it. Likewise, maybe others can do the same so can all come up with the answer.


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post #205 of 4086 Old 12-19-2002, 09:33 AM
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The issue is almost certainly that most pre-HD sources (DVD players, etc.) use a black level of 7.5 IRE, while the new HD standard is 0 IRE. So a display that is calibrated for the former will make HD look too dark. If one calibrates for HD, though, then their other sources will be too light. I guess you could calibrate for a happy medium, but it's a pretty big difference and if you're anal enough to care about HD then you probably don't want to make that compromise.

If basic picture controls are beyond what can be done with the firmware, then it would be nice if the 5100 had a simple toggle for which black level to output.

I'd really like the picture controls, though, because the color balance on my 5100 is just slightly greener than from my DVD player.
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post #206 of 4086 Old 12-19-2002, 10:05 AM
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Quote:


I want to use the 9-9-3 tweak too!
I am using an Onkyo TXSR-500 receiver. How do I find out the appropriate receiever code so I can program the Motorola remote? Anyone know what it is?

Then, once I have the code....how do I program the code in?

I did it by brute force at the oneforall web site. There are quite a number of remotes and codes I had to try; but I found one eventually that did work.

For example, here is one for the cinema 6 or something like it that lists 2 codes for Onkyo. The procedure is in the document.

So I just went on trying all of them until it worked, but do't remember which one it was that worked. It really didn't take that long to test a number of them out.

Would be nice if someone, or COMCAST, could post back a particular one that does work.

EDIT
Well I did find the manufacture's link for the COMCAST remote Its called Navigator

And the procedure to set the codes is on a decal on the back of my remote. Repeated in case you are missing:

1. find 3 digit code
2. press device key to be programmed Then press setup key until red led blinks twice
3. enter 3 digit code
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post #207 of 4086 Old 12-19-2002, 10:54 AM
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I went on the Remote Central's forum a while back asking for the set up codes for the remote that Comcast provided with regular digital cable. The following was the reply:

You can get the answer to most OFA questions on this web site: http://www.hifi-remote.com

Any OFA remote that has the 6-pin connector is programmable using JP1.

Here's the Navigator info:

http://www.hifi-remote.com/urc/cblnav.html

I figure that since the remote is the same, this info should still hold.
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post #208 of 4086 Old 12-19-2002, 11:54 AM
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Please. no one has answered my question on how to find the software numbers on the 5100(51.00-1132 or 5100-1096). What menu do I need to go into to find these numbers? Thanks!
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post #209 of 4086 Old 12-19-2002, 12:14 PM
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fore.aces,
I can't remember exactly, but it's in the user menu/guide (not the menu you access when the box is turned off.) It's called something like "set-up" I think. On the far right column.

If you haven't found it by the time I get home, I'll find it and let you know.
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post #210 of 4086 Old 12-19-2002, 02:15 PM
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Originally posted by fore.aces
Please. no one has answered my question on how to find the software numbers on the 5100(51.00-1132 or 5100-1096). What menu do I need to go into to find these numbers? Thanks!

Main Menu --> Setup --> Cable Box --> See Configuration --> S/W Ver: Upgraded 51.00-1132 / Not Upgraded 51.00-1096 think?) --> Firmware: "00" Upgraded / "04" Not Upgraded

More detailed Info is here:

Power 5100 off --> press "OK/Select" button --> arrow down to d09 "Code Modules" press "ok/select" --> Bootloader: 02.15 Firmware: 2.40 After Upgrade


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