AVS Official Topic: The FCC and Television Spectrum Repack - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 45Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 155 Old 04-13-2017, 10:45 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Trip in VA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Alexandria, VA, US
Posts: 15,494
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 800 Post(s)
Liked: 239
Send a message via AIM to Trip in VA
AVS Official Topic: The FCC and Television Spectrum Repack

MODERATOR'S NOTE: This thread replaces AVS Official Topic - The FCC & Broadcast Spectrum

The FCC has now released the channel assignments for the repack. RabbitEars has a full set of tools to help you figure out where your stations are moving to, based on that public information. The guide to that is here:

https://www.rabbitears.info/blog/ind...epacking-Tools

- Trip

N4MJC

Comments are my own and not that of the FCC (my employer) or anyone else.

RabbitEars

"Ignorance and prejudice and fear walk hand in hand..." - Rush "Witch Hunt"


Last edited by DrDon; 04-13-2017 at 01:37 PM.
Trip in VA is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 155 Old 04-13-2017, 01:12 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 11
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked: 3
The first group of stations to move channels is scheduled for Nov. 30, 2018. I assume that's Phase 1. What are the dates for the other phases?
Bryan Cannon is offline  
post #3 of 155 Old 04-13-2017, 01:42 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
holl_ands's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 5,081
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 539 Post(s)
Liked: 238
RabbitEars REPACK LIST for SAN DIEGO [DMA 22] is MISSING fol. SIX Stations currently in RabbitEars DMA Market List...TWO of which are clearly impacted....WHY are they missing????
KZTC Ch7, KSOX Ch9, KDUG Ch21, KVSD Ch26, KUAN Ch38 and KDSY Ch50.

I'm also interested in what, if anything, happened to fol. [L.A. DMA 2] stations that act as Adjacent Channel JAMMERS to Receivers in Far East end of the LA Smog Basin (e.g. San Bernardino, Riverside & my son's old home in Temecula, a distant "bedroom" for San Diego commuters):
KDUG Ch21 and K12PO Ch12 [Repeater for San Diego's KUSI].
BTW: LA's KDOC moves from Ch32 to Ch12, so also co-channel Jammer???

FCC DA-17-314A2.pdf Spectrum Incentive Auction List appears to be similarly INCOMPLETE. Is the list ONLY for Class A [or whatever] Stations?

THUS FAR....only Antenna Impact to SOCAL Area appears to be POSSIBLE addition of Lo-VHF Antenna if viewers also want to receive [located on Mt Wilson] KWHY Ch4 [Spanish, Religious] and [pointed NOT towards Mt Wilson] KVCR Ch5 [PBS, CREATE, ENCORE and First Nations Experience fnx.org].

Re. PBS in L.A. DMA2: KLCS Ch41 is going OFF-THE-AIR and KOCE Ch48 (hence IMPACTED) is MISSING from the REPACK LISTS....and KVCR is moving to Ch5, which [unless using ROTATOR with likely upgraded Ch4-Ch36 Antenna] will require ANOTHER Lo-VHF Antenna pointed EAST, nowhere NEAR direction of Mt Wilson.

Last edited by holl_ands; 04-13-2017 at 02:05 PM.
holl_ands is offline  
 
post #4 of 155 Old 04-13-2017, 02:12 PM
Super Moderator
 
DrDon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Metro Detroit, Tampa Bay
Posts: 14,532
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1200 Post(s)
Liked: 2355
Here's a list of the non-coms and how much they received. I'd copy it, but I'm no good at embedding tables:

Final FCC auction data shows sales of 32 noncommercial educational TV stations

Walking the fine line between jaw-dropping and a plain ol' yawn.
DrDon is offline  
post #5 of 155 Old 04-13-2017, 03:37 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Calaveras's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Mountain Ranch
Posts: 5,251
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1290 Post(s)
Liked: 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by holl_ands View Post
RabbitEars REPACK LIST for SAN DIEGO [DMA 22] is MISSING fol. SIX Stations currently in RabbitEars DMA Market List...TWO of which are clearly impacted....WHY are they missing????
KZTC Ch7, KSOX Ch9, KDUG Ch21, KVSD Ch26, KUAN Ch38 and KDSY Ch50.

Those are all LPTV stations and are not part of the repack. Their fate is yet to be determined.
Calaveras is offline  
post #6 of 155 Old 04-13-2017, 03:45 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 13
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked: 1
Whoa, WNBC in New York City is going off air! This has to be much bigger news and have a larger impact than any random small publicly owned station leaving.
JHBrandt likes this.
onwisconsin is offline  
post #7 of 155 Old 04-13-2017, 04:31 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Aleron Ives's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,874
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1664 Post(s)
Liked: 1415
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan Cannon View Post
The first group of stations to move channels is scheduled for Nov. 30, 2018. I assume that's Phase 1. What are the dates for the other phases?
I haven't been able to find that information, either...
Aleron Ives is offline  
post #8 of 155 Old 04-13-2017, 04:44 PM
Senior Member
 
jb_ky1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Lexington, KY
Posts: 253
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 38 Post(s)
Liked: 10
jb_ky1 is offline  
post #9 of 155 Old 04-13-2017, 04:57 PM
UHD Addict
 
aaronwt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Northern VA(Woodbridge)
Posts: 30,710
Mentioned: 35 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6039 Post(s)
Liked: 3745
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post
MODERATOR'S NOTE: This thread replaces AVS Official Topic - The FCC & Broadcast Spectrum

The FCC has now released the channel assignments for the repack. RabbitEars has a full set of tools to help you figure out where your stations are moving to, based on that public information. The guide to that is here:

https://www.rabbitears.info/blog/ind...epacking-Tools

- Trip
Crap!! I was hoping the CBS and ABC station here in the DC area would move back to UHF. During the digital conversion they moved from UHF to VHF. When they were on UHF, CBS was the most powerful station I received. But once they moved to VHF, it became my least powerful signal. And I can rarely get a stable picture from them. Except when the Tropospheric Ducting is in my favor. The ABC signal only dropped around 30%, so at least I can still get that most of the time.

53TB unRAID2--41TB unRAID3--35TB unRAID1a
Sony 65x850C--Sony UBP-X800--Onkyo HT-S7800
XBL/PSN: WormholeXtreme
aaronwt is online now  
post #10 of 155 Old 04-13-2017, 04:59 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Trip in VA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Alexandria, VA, US
Posts: 15,494
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 800 Post(s)
Liked: 239
Send a message via AIM to Trip in VA
There was no mechanism for stations to move from VHF to UHF, only from UHF to VHF.

- Trip
aaronwt and eacalhoun like this.

N4MJC

Comments are my own and not that of the FCC (my employer) or anyone else.

RabbitEars

"Ignorance and prejudice and fear walk hand in hand..." - Rush "Witch Hunt"

Trip in VA is offline  
post #11 of 155 Old 04-13-2017, 07:24 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
joblo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 1,470
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 84 Post(s)
Liked: 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by holl_ands View Post
Re. PBS in L.A. DMA2: KLCS Ch41 is going OFF-THE-AIR and KOCE Ch48 (hence IMPACTED) is MISSING
Quote:
Originally Posted by onwisconsin View Post
Whoa, WNBC in New York City is going off air!
Note the CSA (Channel Share Agreement) columns in appendix A. All three of these have pre-auction CSAs.

WNBC will almost certainly share with the Telemundo station WNJU, which they also own, and which has the better CP of the two on the new WTC 1.

The LA PBS stations may also have opted to share with stations having better facilities.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post
There was no mechanism for stations to move from VHF to UHF, only from UHF to VHF.
Unless they entered a CSA with a UHF and sold the VHF, as discussed in the previous thread.
aaronwt likes this.
joblo is offline  
post #12 of 155 Old 04-13-2017, 08:33 PM
Senior Member
 
mvcg66b3r's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Covington, TN
Posts: 246
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 109 Post(s)
Liked: 17
These are the 12 stations that are going off-air completely (no channel sharing):

WAGT Augusta GA
WPBO Charleston-Huntington WV
WAOH-CD Cleveland-Akron OH
KATA-CD Dallas-Ft Worth TX
WFXI Greenville-New Bern-Washington NC
WBKI Louisville KY
WWJS-CD Louisville KY
WDLP-CD Miami-Ft Lauderdale FL
WNYJ New York NY
WMEI Puerto Rico
WSJU Puerto Rico
KSPR Springfield MO

James Calvin Woods - Son of Verta Jane Holland
mvcg66b3r is offline  
post #13 of 155 Old 04-14-2017, 01:09 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Trip in VA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Alexandria, VA, US
Posts: 15,494
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 800 Post(s)
Liked: 239
Send a message via AIM to Trip in VA
Quote:
Originally Posted by joblo View Post
Unless they entered a CSA with a UHF and sold the VHF, as discussed in the previous thread.
Yes, that is true, though VHFs were pretty unlikely to be bought. Only 4 were bought nationwide.

- Trip

N4MJC

Comments are my own and not that of the FCC (my employer) or anyone else.

RabbitEars

"Ignorance and prejudice and fear walk hand in hand..." - Rush "Witch Hunt"

Trip in VA is offline  
post #14 of 155 Old 04-14-2017, 01:24 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Trip in VA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Alexandria, VA, US
Posts: 15,494
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 800 Post(s)
Liked: 239
Send a message via AIM to Trip in VA
Quote:
Originally Posted by holl_ands View Post
Re. PBS in L.A. DMA2: KLCS Ch41 is going OFF-THE-AIR and KOCE Ch48 (hence IMPACTED) is MISSING from the REPACK LISTS....
Here's a relevant article about KOCE: http://www.tvnewscheck.com/article/1...-auction-money

KCET and KLCS announced a channel sharing deal in 2014. https://www.kcet.org/press-room/kcet...ng-partnership

- Trip

N4MJC

Comments are my own and not that of the FCC (my employer) or anyone else.

RabbitEars

"Ignorance and prejudice and fear walk hand in hand..." - Rush "Witch Hunt"

Trip in VA is offline  
post #15 of 155 Old 04-14-2017, 03:31 AM
Member
 
jeff_rigby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Sarasota Florida
Posts: 135
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 41 Post(s)
Liked: 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan Cannon View Post
The first group of stations to move channels is scheduled for Nov. 30, 2018. I assume that's Phase 1. What are the dates for the other phases?
This date 11/30/2018 might indicate when some of the Stations are moving to ATSC 3.0 as in many market areas there is not NOW, due to the FCC auction, enough channels to support ATSC 1.0 and ATSC 3.0 at the same time. Proposed is Voluntary rollout with some broadcasters sharing multiple stations as ATSC 1.0 on one channel assignment and others Multiple stations as ATSC 3.0 on a different channel assignment (simulcast).

Quote:
Originally Posted by http://www.broadcastingcable.com/news/washington/fccs-pai-proposes-atsc-30-rollout/163020
the NPRM authorizes the voluntary use of ATSC 3.0 while requiring stations to continue to deliver an ATSC 1.0 version of their signals. It also proposes to require MVPDs to continue to carry the ATSC 1.0 signal but does not require them to carry ATSC 3.0 during the transition to a new standard. It asks questions about how the retrans consent regime might look and about interference protections.

The proposal does not include "at this time," an ATSC 3.0 tuner mandate for consumer electronics companies, but seeks comment on that tentative conclusion, according to the item, which was released Thursday morning as part of a pilot project to let the public see items the FCC plans to vote on--the ATSC 3.0 item will be on the February meeting agenda.

Broadcasters promised to simulcast their signals during such rollouts given that the standard is not compatible with current TV sets.

Given that the post-auction repack timetable is to last more than three years, and it won't be triggered until sometime this year, that would allow the rollout and the repack to dovetail if Pai's end-of-year authorization is achieved.

The FCC did not take ATSC 3.0 into account when planning the repack, but outgoing Media Bureau chief Bill Lake has suggested that the two could, indeed, dovetail.

RE: ATSC 3.0 tuner, from what I understand, one option is a combo ATSC 1.0 and 3.0 tuner (three each) that connects to the home network (LG has one).

Last edited by jeff_rigby; 04-14-2017 at 03:36 AM.
jeff_rigby is offline  
post #16 of 155 Old 04-14-2017, 06:49 AM
Super Moderator
 
DrDon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Metro Detroit, Tampa Bay
Posts: 14,532
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1200 Post(s)
Liked: 2355
FCC Spectrum Auction
Stations Set to Reap $10 Billion as FCC Closes Auction of Broadcast Airwaves
By Ted Johnson Variety - April 13, 2017

The FCC has closed a first-of-its-kind auction of broadcast airwaves that will see a shakeup in channel lineups in many markets, as stations are reaping a total of $10.05 billion to give up their spectrum.

A total of 175 stations stations broadcasters won bids and will give up their spectrum, the FCC said in a statement on Thursday. The agency said that 30 stations will receive money for moving to a lower channel, and 133 others will give up their licenses, with many intending to remain on the air under channel sharing agreements with other stations. Twelve stations did not indicate that they planned to channel share — raising the prospect that they would go dark.

The purpose of the auction — years in the making, and playing out for more than 12 months — was to free up spectrum for wireless use. That meant disrupting the lineup of broadcast stations on the UHF band to make way for prized spectrum valued by mobile and wireless firms.

As part of the process of clearing the spectrum, 957 stations that did not put their spectrum up for bid will still get new channel assignments, with the first group of stations scheduled to move on Nov. 30, 2018.

The FCC said that they will collect $19.8 billion in gross revenues from sale of the 70 MHz of spectrum, its second-highest return from a spectrum auction. Of that, $7.3 billion will go to federal deficit reduction.

The largest station payout was $304 million to WWTO-TV in Chicago that is owned by Trinity Christian Center. The largest award for a non-commercial station was to New Jersey Public Broadcasting, owner of WNJN-TV, with $194 million. Both were listed as going off the air, but it was unclear if that means that they would seek channel sharing arrangements.

In Los Angeles, PBS SoCal’s KOCE-TV has decided to give up its spectrum and, in return, will collect $49 million. It has reached an agreement to share its spectrum with KSCI-TV, another Los Angeles station, which will collect $89 million under the new arrangement.

Andrew Russell, the president and CEO of PBS SoCal, said that viewers will not notice a change when the transition is made.

“Our priority as the primary PBS station for greater Los Angeles is to ensure that we can deliver PBS programs to the 18 million people across the six counties in our region well into the future,” he said in a statement, adding that the additional revenue will allow the station to invest in programming, content production and broadband services, as well as in restructuring debt.

Stations will now have a 39-month transition period to move or relinquish their airwaves.

The full list of winning auction bidders is here.

The FCC said that that there were a total of 50 winning bidders for the 70 MHz of spectrum, led by T-Mobile, which spent $8 billion.

Craig Moffett, an analyst at MoffettNathanson, said that one surprise was that Dish Network bought more spectrum than expected — $6.2 billion, via ParkerB.com wireless.

He also said that Comcast spent far less than expected buying up spectrum, shelling out $1.7 billion through CC Wireless Investment.

Verizon spent nothing, he noted, and AT&T spent $910 million.

In fact, before the auction started, there were predictions that this auction would prove a bonanza, even up to $80 billion in proceeds, as wireless firms would scramble to buy up airwaves given the increasing demand generated by mobile use.

But demand overall was less than expected, even though the FCC set up the auction to ensure that it would recoup its costs.

“The broadcasters showed up and, except for T-Mo, the carriers did not,” said Preston Padden, who had been advising companies interested in participating in the auction. “Gary Epstein deserves an award for 5 years of public service.” Epstein led the FCC’s auction task force.

The auction was at first greeted with some trepidation by broadcasters, who expressed concerns about disrupting the channel line up after having gone through a transition to digital television in the last decade.

But station groups saw the potential for big returns for participation, made all the better by the possibility that they also had the chance to give up their spectrum yet still stay on the air if they moved to a lower channel in the VHF band or if they reached agreements with other stations to share their airwaves. Then-FCC Chairman Tom Wheeler pitched the spectrum sale as a “once in a lifetime opportunity.”

In many cases, viewers, particularly those who have cable or satellite, will not notice the difference.

Comcast said that it will receive $481.6 million from the auction. It said that gave up spectrum in three markets where it owns two stations. In New York, it will give up the spectrum of WNBC-TV, and then share the channel with WNJU-TV; in Philadelphia, WWSI-TV will share with WCAU-TV; and in Chicago, WSNS-TV will share with WMAQ-TV.

Ajit Pai, the current FCC Chairman, said in a statement that “while we celebrate reaching the official close of the auction, there is still much work ahead of us. It’s now imperative that we move forward with equal zeal to ensure a successful post-auction transition, including a smooth and efficient repacking process.”

Viewers who rely on over-the-air TV may have to “rescan” their sets once stations begin their move.

Gordon Smith, president and CEO of the National Association of Broadcasters, said that “now the FCC and the broadcast industry face the unprecedented task of moving almost a thousand TV stations — far more than originally anticipated — to new channels in very tight time frames.”

http://variety.com/2017/biz/news/fcc...on-1202030079/

Walking the fine line between jaw-dropping and a plain ol' yawn.
DrDon is offline  
post #17 of 155 Old 04-14-2017, 11:30 AM
Newbie
 
al.rob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 14
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by mvcg66b3r View Post
These are the 12 stations that are going off-air completely (no channel sharing):

WAGT Augusta GA
WPBO Charleston-Huntington WV
WAOH-CD Cleveland-Akron OH
KATA-CD Dallas-Ft Worth TX
WFXI Greenville-New Bern-Washington NC
WBKI Louisville KY
WWJS-CD Louisville KY
WDLP-CD Miami-Ft Lauderdale FL
WNYJ New York NY
WMEI Puerto Rico
WSJU Puerto Rico
KSPR Springfield MO
WNVT Goldvein, VA and WNVC Fairfax, VA should also be on the list of stations to be shut down and not shared with another channel. The owners sold the spectrum and plan to shut down operations.


http://www.richmond.com/business/loc...e4091f2a2.html
aaronwt likes this.
al.rob is offline  
post #18 of 155 Old 04-14-2017, 12:49 PM
Advanced Member
 
ADTech's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: St Louis
Posts: 724
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 134 Post(s)
Liked: 72
For the life of me, I can't figure out why WTTO, a VHF channel 10 located 80 miles southwest of Chicago and over 200 miles from any existing or newly allocated channel 10 facility, managed to fetch the top single-station price of over $300 million!

Tech support for Antennas Direct
ADTech is offline  
post #19 of 155 Old 04-14-2017, 03:52 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 2
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 2
One of the websites noted it but WRET in Spartanburg, SC is going off the air with no channel sharing either.

What hasn't been discussed by SC ETV though is that the Greenville station, WNTV, has proper polarization on it's current antenna (and planned to be maintained through repack) that there will be minimal, if any, loss of viewer population even with the loss of WRET. The reason WRET was even put into service was because WNTV's channel in the NTSC days interfered with a Spartanburg area station - and so a notch was put in the WNTV antenna to blank out said area. With the DTV transition the antenna was rotated in Greenville as to put the "notch" up towards the NC mountains where coverage would be minimal regardless, and thus making Spartanburg redundant.

Also to note: anyone discussing the transition phases and the fate of LPTV and translators can read all that fun on the FCC Public Notice site. I cannot post links as a new user but a Google search with that title will get you to the page. The article (and public notice) is under the heading "FCC Announces Results of World's First Broadcast Incentive Auction". It's 81 pages so get cozy!

If you read the PDF it shows the dates for all phases and current arrangements for LPTV and translator stations.

I can tell you from SC ETV's side - it will be a long haul. Of the remaining 10 stations: all 10 are being repacked. Half of them are in a certain phase with the others coming later: but timing will make it difficult for some with the amount of work needed.

For many of these older stations, they incurred great cost during the DTV transition. Most worked however possible to maintain the same antenna/tower/transmission line that was used in the NTSC days. However, with changing FAA and EIA standards for towers, and new (and more) equipment being loaded up - some are running into planning issues where they cannot put MORE up on a tower without having stability issues. Because the FCC mandates that all these stations remain on the air during the transition, with the actual "switch" happening at the same time for interference reasons, it means most affected stations will be building up their new station WHILE running their current - whether at full power or with a temporary mounted antenna and low power transmitter.

All I know is I will be VERY busy over the next couple of years... but I am glad the public notice came out so I can stop feeling like I was holding onto some dang secret.
aaronwt likes this.
NavyBOFH is offline  
post #20 of 155 Old 04-14-2017, 04:14 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
holl_ands's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 5,081
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 539 Post(s)
Liked: 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff_rigby View Post
RE: ATSC 3.0 tuner, from what I understand, one option is a combo ATSC 1.0 and 3.0 tuner (three each) that connects to the home network (LG has one).
Having reviewed literally THOUSANDS of different user's TVFool Reports, currently MOST of them NEED to receive from more than one Tower Direction [Angle between exceeds typical Antenna Beamwidths]....and MANY WANT to receive from THREE (and rarely, MORE than Three) Tower Directions. This tends to be the case irrespective of whether the user is in an Urban (incl. NYC Concrete Canyons), Suburban or Rural Location.

Since ATSC 3.0 will support SFN [Single Frequency Network, aka DTx = Distributed Transmitter Network, which are variations of MIMO], the number of different directions a particular SFN Channel comes from....and is RECEIVABLE at a particular Location is also likely to increase. In Europe, Dual and even Quad Antenna Array systems are readily available for Hi-Def DVB-T Reception in Cars/Limos/Vans/Busses/Trains....and is NOT vehicle speed limited like ATSC 1.0. SOME of us would dearly LOVE to adapt upcoming ATSC 3.0 Maximal Ratio Combiner (MRC) VEHICLE Receiver Systems for Home use....thereby gaining 10-20 dB of Antenna Space Diversity Combining Gain to RELIABLY pull in those weak stations. So I'll be carefully reading new ATSC 3.0 Tuner Specs....and wondering whether the Multiple Tuners will AUTOMATICALLY TRY to receive one or more SFN Channel(s) from DIFFERENT ANTENNAS (when Tuners are not otherwise occupied)....and whether I need to split the combined output of a MULTI-ANTENNA System to Multiple Tuners....or [for hopefully better performance] separate Antennas to separate Tuners....and how best to AIM those several Antennas....cuz I don't think we'll be able to simply point ONE Antenna in ONE Direction and get 'em ALL.....
PA_MainyYak and jeff_rigby like this.

Last edited by holl_ands; 04-14-2017 at 04:22 PM.
holl_ands is offline  
post #21 of 155 Old 04-14-2017, 05:23 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
veedon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Raleigh,NC
Posts: 1,897
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 873 Post(s)
Liked: 557
So, is WNBC gone gone (gone for real) or just fake gone?

Maybe they will use the frequency of whatever that station in Jersey is (WNJU?), but I'm guessing viewers will still be able to watch NBC New York Channel 4, just like back in 1941. (Well, I guess back then it was WNBT New York Channel 1).

Will the transmitter be in NYC or somewhere in Jersey?

Honestly, there seems to be a serious lack of respect for the history and heritage of OTA broadcasting.
videobruce likes this.
veedon is offline  
post #22 of 155 Old 04-14-2017, 05:47 PM
UHD Addict
 
aaronwt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Northern VA(Woodbridge)
Posts: 30,710
Mentioned: 35 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6039 Post(s)
Liked: 3745
Quote:
Originally Posted by veedon View Post
So, is WNBC gone gone (gone for real) or just fake gone?

Maybe they will use the frequency of whatever that station in Jersey is (WNJU?), but I'm guessing viewers will still be able to watch NBC New York Channel 4, just like back in 1941. (Well, I guess back then it was WNBT New York Channel 1).

Will the transmitter be in NYC or somewhere in Jersey?

Honestly, there seems to be a serious lack of respect for the history and heritage of OTA broadcasting.
I thought I read where WNBC is taking the Money and dropping the frequency they are currently on? And will go to a different frequency that will be shared with another station?

EDIT: This is from Wikipedia
Quote:
Spectrum reallocation[edit]
On April 13, 2017, it was revealed that WNBC's over-the-air spectrum had been sold in the FCC's spectrum reallocation auction, fetching $214 million. WNBC will not sign off, but its signal will be co-located with sister station WNJU.[26]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WNBC

I thought I read that Comcast(NBC) did this with several of their stations that they own? Pocketing over 600 million?

53TB unRAID2--41TB unRAID3--35TB unRAID1a
Sony 65x850C--Sony UBP-X800--Onkyo HT-S7800
XBL/PSN: WormholeXtreme

Last edited by aaronwt; 04-14-2017 at 05:56 PM.
aaronwt is online now  
post #23 of 155 Old 04-14-2017, 07:07 PM
Advanced Member
 
Pete-N2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Lynchburg, VA
Posts: 683
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 79 Post(s)
Liked: 49
http://www.broadcastingcable.com/new...ns-wwsi/164893

Comcast-NBCU won bids to sell spectrum in three top-10 markets, including flagship WNBC New York, Philadelphia (Telemundo affiliate WWSI) and Chicago (Telemundo affiliate WSNS).

That was according to the FCC's just-released list of winning bidders in the broadcast incentive auction.

The company said in each case it was holding on to the superior signal in each market, with WNBC programming sharing with WNJU, WWSI with WCAU and WSNS with WMAQ.
Pete-N2 is online now  
post #24 of 155 Old 04-14-2017, 07:24 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Calaveras's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Mountain Ranch
Posts: 5,251
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1290 Post(s)
Liked: 272
I haven't seen a post with the link to the complete FCC report so here it is:

https://www.fcc.gov/document/fcc-ann...tive-auction-0

I found Paragraph #60 interesting. LPTV stations have until July 13, 2021 to convert to digital. LPTV digital stations can continue to operate indefinitely on channel 38-51 until told that a wireless company will begin operations are they will cause interference.

Paragraph 64 has the Repack Phase timing table.

Paragraph 76 is all about channel sharing procedures.
eacalhoun likes this.
Calaveras is offline  
post #25 of 155 Old 04-14-2017, 07:47 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
veedon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Raleigh,NC
Posts: 1,897
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 873 Post(s)
Liked: 557
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete-N2 View Post
http://www.broadcastingcable.com/new...ns-wwsi/164893

Comcast-NBCU ... said in each case it was holding on to the superior signal in each market, with WNBC programming sharing with WNJU, WWSI with WCAU and WSNS with WMAQ.
Not so sure about that. Without WWSI, will OTA reception of WCAU programming be feasible in Atlantic City and nearby areas?

Will WSNS make WMAQ rich? I thought WMAQ was supposed to make people rich. Oh, wait. I think that was the radio station.
veedon is offline  
post #26 of 155 Old 04-15-2017, 05:13 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
dattier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Chicago IL, Northwest Side
Posts: 3,172
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 145 Post(s)
Liked: 61
Is there a muggle-readable listing of channel-sharing agreements somewhere? I'm interested in learning those for my home DMA (Chicago, #3).  For most stations that are giving up their signals, this market includes another station under the same ownership, so I'm assuming that they'll be sharing with it (and there's been specific info that WSNS will slip in with WMAQ), but I can't figure out where WYCC is going, nor what's happening with a couple of the low-power stations that aren't mentioned anywhere.

My assumptions are that WXFT's signal (Unimás) is melding into WGBO's (Univisión), WPWR's (Fox-owned CW affiliate) into WFLD's (Fox), and WOCH's into WOCK's, besides WSNS's (Telemundo) into WMAQ's (NBC). But what about WYCC?

And of course, until ATSC 3.0 becomes prevalent, all this sharing will degrade the picture quality; there are only so many bits to share.

Last edited by dattier; 04-15-2017 at 05:47 PM.
dattier is offline  
post #27 of 155 Old 04-15-2017, 06:35 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Trip in VA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Alexandria, VA, US
Posts: 15,494
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 800 Post(s)
Liked: 239
Send a message via AIM to Trip in VA
Channel sharing agreements have yet to be announced. The FCC permitted stations to make or change them post-auction, so there's no way to know until they are officially filed with the FCC in the coming months.

- Trip
aaronwt likes this.

N4MJC

Comments are my own and not that of the FCC (my employer) or anyone else.

RabbitEars

"Ignorance and prejudice and fear walk hand in hand..." - Rush "Witch Hunt"

Trip in VA is offline  
post #28 of 155 Old 04-16-2017, 05:22 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
dattier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Chicago IL, Northwest Side
Posts: 3,172
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 145 Post(s)
Liked: 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post
Channel sharing agreements have yet to be announced. The FCC permitted stations to make or change them post-auction, so there's no way to know until they are officially filed with the FCC in the coming months.
Thank you, Trip. That explains why I haven't been able to find them.
dattier is offline  
post #29 of 155 Old 04-16-2017, 12:26 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
veedon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Raleigh,NC
Posts: 1,897
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 873 Post(s)
Liked: 557
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calaveras View Post
I haven't seen a post with the link to the complete FCC report so here it is:

https://www.fcc.gov/document/fcc-ann...tive-auction-0

...
Paragraph 64 has the Repack Phase timing table.


Paragraph 76 is all about channel sharing procedures.
Sounds as though Canada's counterpart to the FCC (something called ISED Canada) will also have some work to do on a repacking of the RF allocations for Canadian stations.

Last edited by veedon; 04-16-2017 at 12:36 PM.
veedon is offline  
post #30 of 155 Old 04-16-2017, 05:08 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ProjectSHO89's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,172
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 279 Post(s)
Liked: 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by veedon View Post
Sounds as though Canada's counterpart to the FCC (something called ISED Canada) will also have some work to do on a repacking of the RF allocations for Canadian stations.
Already been done.

https://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/smt-gs...g/sf11281.html
ProjectSHO89 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply HDTV Technical

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off