Fort McCoy FL. Antenna Recommendations - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 10Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #31 of 46 Old 05-01-2017, 01:29 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Venomnusss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Sunrise, Florida
Posts: 186
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by holl_ands View Post
Yes you can Vertically Stack two DB-8e's (and pretty much ANY other Antenna).
If you are trying to receive Third Group of Stations, you can certainly mount them (more or less) Back-to-Back.

IF you can afford it, A-D DB-8e is probably more likely to survive your infrequent high winds:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h30udVLNfSs
BTW: 55 m/s is 123 mph.

That is what I will be going with. I will pick them up next Monday when I am down that way. I will report back on what happens.. Thanks again.

.
Egyptian Tomb Home Theater!!!
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...highlight=tomb

Please visit my Web Page:

http://www.eyecit.net

Venomnusss is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #32 of 46 Old 05-01-2017, 01:33 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Venomnusss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Sunrise, Florida
Posts: 186
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProjectSHO89 View Post
If you couldn't pick up either of the CBS stations with your Yagi antenna aimed directly at either of them from multiple points on your roof, I'd assume that the signal didn't make the trip. As a last ditch effort with the current antenna, add your preamp between the antenna and your Winegard meter and repeat the "walk the roof" exercise. That will improve it's sensitivity and hopefully won't cause new issues.

Any chance that you can go "down low" and visually see the horizon in the needed direction? Sometimes the signals seem to tunnel under the tree crowns and the signal might make it.
While the Yagi was not so great. With the Preamplifier inline from the existing Winegard I can pick up CBS Orlando and it is almost watchable. It comes in for 30 to 60 seconds with superb picture and sound, then the artifacts start and the sound drops, then about a minute later it all comes back... And so on.... I have adjusted up and down to the sweet spot. With just a little more of the CBS signal I should be ok... Hopefully. Thanks for your help.

.
Egyptian Tomb Home Theater!!!
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...highlight=tomb

Please visit my Web Page:

http://www.eyecit.net

Venomnusss is online now  
post #33 of 46 Old 05-01-2017, 02:12 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ProjectSHO89's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,153
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 271 Post(s)
Liked: 129
Unless you can get more signal to the antenna, you're probably about at the wall. I wouldn't expect any miracles going with a more extreme setup.
ProjectSHO89 is offline  
 
post #34 of 46 Old 05-12-2017, 01:49 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Venomnusss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Sunrise, Florida
Posts: 186
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Hi All,
I got the Antennas Direct A-D DB-8e. What a great antenna ...I the gets CBS Orlando Station with no problems.
I just ordered a second one to face all the other stations. That CBS Station needs that antenna all to itself. What combiner should I use to go with the two A-D DB-8e's?

.
Egyptian Tomb Home Theater!!!
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...highlight=tomb

Please visit my Web Page:

http://www.eyecit.net

Venomnusss is online now  
post #35 of 46 Old 05-12-2017, 04:54 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
rabbit73's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: S.E. VA
Posts: 2,253
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 451 Post(s)
Liked: 181
That's good news. The extra gain at the low end of UHF of the DB8E from rerscaling gave you just what you needed.




What other channels do you get with the DB8E aimed in that direction?
Quote:
What combiner should I use to go with the two A-D DB-8e's?
You CAN combine two UHF antennas aimed in different directions with a splitter in reverse, but it doesn't always work. The problem is that when the same signals from each antenna reach the combining point they will interfere with each other if they are not in phase (arrive at the same instant). You just have to try it. It usually has the best chance of working if the two azimuths are 90 degrees apart, which is not true in your case.

If you don't get all the channels when the antennas are combined that you had when each antenna was separate, then combining that way doesn't work for you.

Even if it does work, combining usually will cause some signal loss, which you don't have to spare. That would probably rule out combining near the antennas; needing to be done down below after any amplification.

There are special custom single channel inserters. Tine Lee Electronics could make one for you for real channel 28; it would be expensive (over $100).

http://www.tinlee.com/MATV_headend.p...IGNALINJECTORS

http://www.tinlee.com/PDF/AC7-custom...kup%20Info.pdf

Jan Jenca in Slovakia, can make one for you for much less; they are on ebay.



http://www.antenne-komponenty.eu/eng...zlucovace.html

If you can't get any of those ways to work, you will have to use an A/B switch to select which antenna to use, which might require rescanning if you tuner isn't able to add a channel after scan.

With multiple HDHR tuners you can combine in a network

Another alternative is to connect your main antenna to the TV antenna input terminal and connect a second antenna to an external tuner with its output connected to the TV aux input.

If you can not measure it, you can not improve it.
Lord Kelvin, 1883
www.megalithia.com/elect/aerialsite/dttpoorman.html
rabbit73 is offline  
post #36 of 46 Old 05-15-2017, 05:37 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Venomnusss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Sunrise, Florida
Posts: 186
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Hi All,

After a long weekend of going up and down the ladder over and over, fine tuning with the signal meters and saying WTF quite a bit..... I have some results...

First I want to state the equipment I am using at this time.

Antennas Direct DB-8e
RCA Antenna Rotor (VH226F)
30 Foot Telescoping Antenna Mast
Winegard LNA-200 Preamplifier
100 Feet RG11 Cable
AntennaCraft 30 dB Adjustable Amplifier Indoor

The DB-8e is mounted about 26' high. 26' seems to be the sweet spot for height..
The only place that RG11 cable is not being used is the initial two leads on the DB-8e that go into the combiner.

I have to say that the DB-8e is an amazing antenna. I have tried to fine tune every possible station around my home with very surprising results at the amount of stations I could find and the distance they were away.

With the DB-8e I was finally able to locate WGFL CBS Gaineville. I got a strong enough signal to make it a viable option. This will allow me to face my antenna in the same general direction for all my local stations.

Over the weekend I fine tuned the antenna to get them all with the DB-8e staying in one spot.

WGFL CBS
WOGX Fox
WESH NBC
WCJB ABC
WUFT PBS

In that one stationary spot. FOX comes in strong, PBS, ABC and NBC come in ok and CBS is barely usable. At that point I was using the Winegard LNA-200 Preamplifier.
I then added the AntennaCraft 30 dB Adjustable Amplifier Indoor. I slowly adjusted it up until CBS became locked in. That is with the gain adjusted up about 90%.

I used the Rotator along with the HD HomeRun Signal meters to do the last bit of fine tuning.





All stations came in with no artifacts or drop outs for over an hour of testing even during a rain storm... Testing was started at about 3PM on Sunday.

Then at about 8 PM I noticed drops outs on ABC, checked the rest and NBC was also dropping out. CBS and FOX still holding strong.

At that point using the rotor I was able to get all channels fairly locked in again. ABC and NBC would get artifacts every so often.

Today ( Monday ) when I got up at 5:30 AM, I checked them all. No NBC and No ABC... I went in and adjusted the rotor back where I first had it and they are all locked in Beautifully again like when I first got them dialed in at 3PM on Sunday..
As I write this.. It is now 8:35 AM and ABC started dropping again.. two clicks on the rotor and they are all strong again....

It is somewhat challenging adjusting the individual panels on the DB-8e. By looking at the directions of the stations, I set the directions of the two panels... That did not work at all. I was very surprised to find that although ABC and CBS are coming from the same direction, they are almost at either end of the available receiving arc of the DB-8e.
And while Fox and NBC also share the same direction, they also need a wide arc. I initially tuned each panel individually to get me in the ball park of where I needed to be. Then used to rotor for the last few small increments.

I am sure there is more fine tuning with the panels needed, but the signal strength is so low when tuning each panel it is very difficult. My homemade signal meter works great with a low amount of signal, but is not sensitive enough for very very low signals.

So I do not think adding another DB-8e is going to help. I am thinking the amount of signal loss from combining them will kill CBS possibly.
I am so close to having all stations locked in with rock solid performance.

Should I go with a 30dB Preamplifier?
Still try two DB-8e?
Any other ideas?
Any help at this point would be wonderful.... I am so close....

To Bad I cannot find a Channel Master 4251... That sounds like the solution...lol

Thanks Again for everyone's help.

.
Egyptian Tomb Home Theater!!!
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...highlight=tomb

Please visit my Web Page:

http://www.eyecit.net


Last edited by Venomnusss; 05-15-2017 at 06:03 AM.
Venomnusss is online now  
post #37 of 46 Old 05-15-2017, 08:08 AM
Senior Member
 
Primestar31's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Under the bridge (Lower Michigan)
Posts: 430
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 90 Post(s)
Liked: 51
You could try a Kitztech KT-200-COAX preamp in place of your LNA 200. http://www.kitztech.com/KT200.html

They work well for me.

In your situation with all the trees and such, it's all black magic/voodoo, so you just never really know what's going to work, and what isn't until you try it.
Venomnusss likes this.
Primestar31 is online now  
post #38 of 46 Old Yesterday, 11:56 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Venomnusss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Sunrise, Florida
Posts: 186
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Hi All,

Today I received the Kitztech KT-200-COAX preamp.
I replaced the Winegard LNA-200 Preamplifier with the Kitztech KT-200-COAX preamp and I completely removed the AntennaCraft 30 dB Adjustable Amplifier Indoor

Here is the updated equipment I am using at this time.
Antennas Direct DB-8e
RCA Antenna Rotor (VH226F)
30 Foot Telescoping Antenna Mast
Kitztech KT-200-COAX preamp
100 Feet RG11 Cable

I went inside to look at the HD HomeRun GUI and was completely amazed!!!! The Kitztech KT-200-COAX preamp replaced both amplifiers and is giving me a better picture and signal. As of right now at 2:45 PM all channels are completely clear and artifact free. No drop outs have been seen.
And now we are having a thunder storm and all channels are remaining clear!!

If this keeps up through the night... I might actually be finished with this project.

I was having one more issue that seems very strange to me. Every night after 10PM to 10:30PM .... I completely lose NBC and ABC becomes unwatchable due to extreme artifacts. Weird thing is the HD Homerun GUI still shows NBC with the same strong Signal Strength as before it went down ,around 80%+ , but 0% Signal Quality and 0% Symbol Quality... ABC shows the same 80%+ Signal Strength and both Signal Quality and Symbol Quality flickering in and out of 60% to 80%. No matter where I move the antenna I cannot get any Signal Quality or Symbol Quality for NBC and ABC cannot be made any better than the flickering signal. When I wake up the next morning they are perfect again... CBS and FOX are unaffected during this.CBS is the furthest away from me with the lowest overall signal strength yet remains locked in. Lots of my neighbors have big Ham Radio set ups... Can those cause interference when they are using them?
Or is there a simple explanation for this?

Thanks again for everyone's help!
Primestar31 likes this.

.
Egyptian Tomb Home Theater!!!
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...highlight=tomb

Please visit my Web Page:

http://www.eyecit.net


Last edited by Venomnusss; Yesterday at 12:07 PM.
Venomnusss is online now  
post #39 of 46 Old Yesterday, 02:06 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Calaveras's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Mountain Ranch
Posts: 5,122
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1199 Post(s)
Liked: 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by Venomnusss View Post
CBS and FOX are unaffected during this.CBS is the furthest away from me with the lowest overall signal strength yet remains locked in. Lots of my neighbors have big Ham Radio set ups... Can those cause interference when they are using them?
Or is there a simple explanation for this?

They can but no ham transmits 100% of the time. The interference would be intermittent and unlikely to be on any schedule. It would not make any station disappear for an extended period of time. It's also much less likely you'd get interference if the ham was more than about 200-300' away.

I don't see any obvious reason why you should be having trouble with strong signals only 11 and 30 miles away.
Calaveras is online now  
post #40 of 46 Old Yesterday, 03:12 PM
Senior Member
 
Primestar31's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Under the bridge (Lower Michigan)
Posts: 430
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 90 Post(s)
Liked: 51
Do you have any sort of electrical device on a timer, that turns on at 10pm and off at 10:30pm? Battery charger/maintainer, LED lights, grow lamps, etc? Maybe a local transmitter (cell, local transmitter link) of some sort that only broadcasts at the time? Smart Meter calling home?

I had a Harbor Freight battery tender, that threw out interference more than 300 feet away from the garage. It would mess up my VHF stations for sure, with the signal meter going up and down constantly.
Primestar31 is online now  
post #41 of 46 Old Yesterday, 03:13 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Venomnusss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Sunrise, Florida
Posts: 186
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calaveras View Post
They can but no ham transmits 100% of the time. The interference would be intermittent and unlikely to be on any schedule. It would not make any station disappear for an extended period of time. It's also much less likely you'd get interference if the ham was more than about 200-300' away.

I don't see any obvious reason why you should be having trouble with strong signals only 11 and 30 miles away.
Ok, that definitely rules out the Hams.. They are much further away than 200-300'. Thank you for the response.


It will be interesting tonight to see if I lose them again.

.
Egyptian Tomb Home Theater!!!
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...highlight=tomb

Please visit my Web Page:

http://www.eyecit.net

Venomnusss is online now  
post #42 of 46 Old Yesterday, 03:22 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Venomnusss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Sunrise, Florida
Posts: 186
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Primestar31 View Post
Do you have any sort of electrical device on a timer, that turns on at 10pm and off at 10:30pm? Battery charger/maintainer, LED lights, grow lamps, etc? Maybe a local transmitter (cell, local transmitter link) of some sort that only broadcasts at the time? Smart Meter calling home?

I had a Harbor Freight battery tender, that threw out interference more than 300 feet away from the garage. It would mess up my VHF stations for sure, with the signal meter going up and down constantly.
Nothing that I can think of off hand....Especially that would stay on continuously... I will walk the house to see if anything comes to mind.

The problem starts between 10 and 10:30 PM then goes until at least 3AM.. I have woken up at 3AM and gotten up just to check the signal.. When I get up at 6AM the signals are fine again..

.
Egyptian Tomb Home Theater!!!
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...highlight=tomb

Please visit my Web Page:

http://www.eyecit.net

Venomnusss is online now  
post #43 of 46 Old Yesterday, 03:32 PM
Senior Member
 
Primestar31's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Under the bridge (Lower Michigan)
Posts: 430
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 90 Post(s)
Liked: 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Venomnusss View Post
Nothing that I can think of off hand....Especially that would stay on continuously... I will walk the house to see if anything comes to mind.

The problem starts between 10 and 10:30 PM then goes until at least 3AM.. I have woken up at 3AM and gotten up just to check the signal.. When I get up at 6AM the signals are fine again..
That sounds like some sort of local transmitter back-haul system. Look around for local microwave towers. Yeah, they shouldn't cause this issue, but you'll have to find out if they are, then get the particular utility to fix the problem.

Any nearby house off the grid, with solar power and a generator for charging batteries cheaper at night?

If you have an AM radio handy, turn it on just before this interference kicks off, and tune it at the lowest frequency. When you start having the issue, see if the radio starts making static-y noises. No guarantee it will, but IF it does that at the same time, you can start walking around to see if you can figure where it's coming from. If it's in the house, you can even start flipping OFF circuit breakers in the panel, and see if it suddenly quits after a particular one is turned off. Then find out what's all on that circuit. Though it doesn't sound like this is internal to your house.

Last edited by Primestar31; Yesterday at 04:03 PM.
Primestar31 is online now  
post #44 of 46 Old Today, 05:16 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Venomnusss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Sunrise, Florida
Posts: 186
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Wow, I am even further AMAZED!!!! Up until 1 AM monitoring the signal strengths... Never lost any signal, they all stayed locked in and beautiful. Woke up at 2:45 AM, still locked in. Got up at 6 AM, still locked in.
This is the first time since starting this Antenna Project that the signals stayed locked in over night.

The only explanation I have for this is the new Kitztech KT-200-COAX preamp is doing some kind of magic..lol

I will keep monitoring it for the next few days...

.
Egyptian Tomb Home Theater!!!
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...highlight=tomb

Please visit my Web Page:

http://www.eyecit.net

Venomnusss is online now  
post #45 of 46 Old Today, 06:32 AM
Senior Member
 
Primestar31's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Under the bridge (Lower Michigan)
Posts: 430
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 90 Post(s)
Liked: 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Venomnusss View Post
Wow, I am even further AMAZED!!!! Up until 1 AM monitoring the signal strengths... Never lost any signal, they all stayed locked in and beautiful. Woke up at 2:45 AM, still locked in. Got up at 6 AM, still locked in.
This is the first time since starting this Antenna Project that the signals stayed locked in over night.

The only explanation I have for this is the new Kitztech KT-200-COAX preamp is doing some kind of magic..lol

I will keep monitoring it for the next few days...
I have another possible explanation.

The Kitztech preamp is good, BUT, there's also massive Tropospheric Ducting going on right now, and Florida is right in there with strong areas. It could be that helping you also right now.

http://www.dxinfocentre.com/tropo.html

You select your area (Eastern North America) in the upper left dropdown list, then click on the map and it'll advance 3 hours at a time, over 6 days.

Hopefully things will stay locked in fairly well, and it stays acceptable to you. If you are fairly sure you have your system pretty much as good as it can get, that's all you can do.
Venomnusss likes this.

Last edited by Primestar31; Today at 06:37 AM.
Primestar31 is online now  
post #46 of 46 Old Today, 07:55 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ctdish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Mystic,CT,USA
Posts: 1,506
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 78 Post(s)
Liked: 36
A good way to check for the presence of ducting is to have a TV rescan for new channels or use the HDHomerun GUI to look through all channels and see if either one finds channels you don't normally get. Look up the call letters using TVQuery on the FCC web site and see if they are DX.
John
Venomnusss likes this.
ctdish is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply HDTV Technical



Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off