SA3250 Comprehensive Review Guide - Notes and Setup - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 956 Old 03-01-2004, 09:16 AM
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"Auto DVI - If you are using the DVI port, you will see this option instead of the Pass Through option. Resolution is automatically formatted to the scan rate supported by the TV."

vegggas and others,

I'm a little confused what the above means. If I have a ED plasma where the native scan rate is 480p, but it can accept 480i, 480p, 720p, and 1080i, does Auto DVI mean that everything is converted to 480p in the box? Or does everything pass through in the original scan rate since the TV accepts all the scan rates (the TV will do the converting to 480p in this case)?

Thanks!
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post #182 of 956 Old 03-01-2004, 09:57 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by jrock65
"Auto DVI - If you are using the DVI port, you will see this option instead of the Pass Through option. Resolution is automatically formatted to the scan rate supported by the TV."

vegggas and others,

I'm a little confused what the above means. If I have a ED plasma where the native scan rate is 480p, but it can accept 480i, 480p, 720p, and 1080i, does Auto DVI mean that everything is converted to 480p in the box? Or does everything pass through in the original scan rate since the TV accepts all the scan rates (the TV will do the converting to 480p in this case)?

Thanks!

Mine passes through the scan rate of the input signal just like the pass-through for a component connection. I had already ran the advanced setup wizard to allow the box to support all scan rates. I'm not sure but the Auto DVI should just bypass the need to run the advance wizard. It wouldn't hurt to run the advanced set up wizard for your set anyway.

Have a great day!

Ken
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post #183 of 956 Old 03-01-2004, 01:34 PM
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Thanks kenni,

One more question. What if I bought a native 480p plasma, but it didn't accept 720p. What does the Auto DVI do with 720p signals in this case? Does the 3250HD convert the 720p into 1080i or 480p?

Thanks!
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post #184 of 956 Old 03-01-2004, 05:51 PM
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thanks to all who tried to help. I have to say because of this forum I am one happy cable viewer. First of all, I probably wouldnt even have known to jump at the 3250 when I saw it. Once I got it however I quickly turned to this forum to tell me what to do with it. And this is what I did... Im went into the set-up wizard and set my desires (upconvert-1) and (widescreen). But there extra goodies I didnt expect. Now in the menu I can change resolution and aspect ratio with the touch of a button. All my pictures are extraordinary--the HD is incredible and thee sd is pretty damn good too!. I have digital sound on every channel... I have a downrezzed HD picture on my Tibvo now ...(I use the 3250 as my TIVO source). I have options of optical or coax digital output.and the greates surprise of all.... I have banner info on every single channel including hdtv!!Basically they have taken every fault from the 3100hd and addressed each one.Yes, losing some hd pic stinks if you dont set it back to normal but it is so easy to fix, why complain. ??? SO lets sum up--downrezzed pics,2 digital outs,DVI out,better graphics,graphics on HD,MUlt aspect rarios, choice of resolutions, quicker interface, and much more. I say ..BRAVO!! SCI AT BRAVO!!!

FARSCAPE SHALL RISE AGAIN!!
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post #185 of 956 Old 03-01-2004, 09:25 PM
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I have a HD3100 and I am trying to feed regular 4:3 channels to my projector in 16:9 mode via S-video (I'm using 16:9 mode so that the picture will fit within my 16:9 screen). Unfortunately, this doesn't work because the projector simply stretches the 4:3 image out to fit into the 16:9 frame.

My question is, if I were to upgrade to the 3250HD, will it be able to produce a proper 4:3 image with vertical bars on the side on my 16:9 screen using S-video?

I need to use S-video for my non HD channels because the 3100HD makes them unacceptably dark when using component. Any chance that this issue is fixed with the 3250HD, such that component output will do a good job displaying all channels?

Thanks for your input
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post #186 of 956 Old 03-02-2004, 05:18 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by jrock65
Thanks kenni,

One more question. What if I bought a native 480p plasma, but it didn't accept 720p. What does the Auto DVI do with 720p signals in this case? Does the 3250HD convert the 720p into 1080i or 480p?

Thanks!

Jrock65 - good question. Don't know the answer. I have a GWIII and it will take any scan rate you can toss at it. With our Adelphia HD service and the DVI connected, I get the basic channels in 480i, interesting the fixed music channels are desplayed in 480p, ABC will automatically go to 720p and NBC/Showtime goes to 1080i. The SA box changes to those scan rates when the channels are tuned and displayes the scan rate for about 2 seconds on the screen.

Have a great day!

Ken
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post #187 of 956 Old 03-04-2004, 08:50 AM
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I decided to play with DVI port on SA3250HD a bit more last night. Here are my observations:

(1) HDCP error message. 3250 box will try HDCP handshake when you first plug your DVI cable or when the STB is unplugged and rebooted. If your TV is not on or your TV is not on DVI input, the hand shake will fail and you get HDCP error. It also depends on the design of the TV. Some TV like mine (Panny LCD RP) will only respond to DVI HDCP handshake when DVI is selected as current input.

(2) Snow screen. This typically happens when you switch to different inputs on the TV or turned off the TV. The reason you see snow screen is that your TV forgets last HDCP handshake and reset its DVI to non-HDCP mode and displays garbage. Like I pointed above HDCP handshake only happens once in a blue moon on SA3250HD. A lot of TVs (mine included) do not store HDCP handshake status when you switch to different inputs or turn off.

The work around to above issue is somehow to re-initiate HDCP handshake from 3250 by one of following methods:

(1) unplug STB power and plug back in to reboot.

(2) unplug DVI cable on the STB and turn off the STB (no need to unplug power). Then plug in the DVI cable and turn it back on. It works but quite a few times the STB will reboot itself just like (1) above.

(3) Presss GUID and INFO buttons while STB is off to enter setup wizard and press exit.


The problem of DVI/HDCP connectivity is the fault of both the TV and STB. On the one hand, the TV should be designed to automatically remember last HDCP handshake status so when it is switched back on, it tries to re-establish the same connection or at least force a HDCP handshake if it is possible. On the otherhand, the STB should try HDCP handshake more often and make it easy, like every time you turn the STB on or press a special button on remote. As it sits right now, it is very unlikely you will get any fix or update from your TV manufacturers about its HDCP implementation. And I can not locate any DVI/HDCP technical spec to see who is at fault. We can only hope SA will eventually resolve this issue. Until then, I will stick with the trusty component output.
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post #188 of 956 Old 03-04-2004, 09:03 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Foxbat121
And I can not locate any DVI/HDCP technical spec to see who is at fault.

Did you try here:
http://www.digital-cp.com/

Specifically:
http://www.digital-cp.com/data/HDCPS...tionRev1_1.pdf
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post #189 of 956 Old 03-04-2004, 09:20 AM
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FWIW, here in southern Maine, Time Warner was supposed to add DVI functionality by the end of February. But that has been delayed, their VP engineering told me, because "it caused a failure in several other areas of our STB functionality. The result was rolling back to the prior code and sending the Application back to the vendor for more testing. We believe we should be able to retest this month and send the code to all STB."

So it sounds like all the kinks haven't been worked out.
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post #190 of 956 Old 03-04-2004, 09:32 AM
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Quote:


State A0: Wait For Active Receiver. In this state the HDCP Transmitter enables video to a non-HDCP receiver with HDCP Encryption disabled. If no low value content is available or appropriate, a blue screen or informative on-screen display should be transmitted. The transmitter must repeatedly attempt to read an HDCP register, at least once every 2 seconds and preferably much more often. Note that in most cases, if the user is watching video from a different input, the Hot Plug Detect signal will still be asserted but the HDCP Receiver's registers will not be readable. Upon switching to the HDCP input, the user will wish to see valid video within a fraction of a second or they may conclude that the HDCP input is not connected and immediately switch to another input. For this reason, a valid video screen should at all times be transmitted whenever HPD is asserted and authentication should be started immediately after detecting a valid Bksv (Transition A0: A1).

From: http://www.digital-cp.com/data/HDCPS...tionRev1_1.pdf

Based on the above, I would think both the problems you mentioned are in the STB.
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post #191 of 956 Old 03-04-2004, 10:00 AM
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Well I upgraded to the 3250 last night and non-HD channels now look much better through component using the 480p widescreen output option. The darks aren't nearly as squashed, if that's the right word.

Quote:


Originally posted by Radbert
I have a HD3100 and I am trying to feed regular 4:3 channels to my projector in 16:9 mode via S-video (I'm using 16:9 mode so that the picture will fit within my 16:9 screen). Unfortunately, this doesn't work because the projector simply stretches the 4:3 image out to fit into the 16:9 frame.

My question is, if I were to upgrade to the 3250HD, will it be able to produce a proper 4:3 image with vertical bars on the side on my 16:9 screen using S-video?

I need to use S-video for my non HD channels because the 3100HD makes them unacceptably dark when using component. Any chance that this issue is fixed with the 3250HD, such that component output will do a good job displaying all channels?

Thanks for your input

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post #192 of 956 Old 03-04-2004, 10:58 AM
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Thanks dt_dc. I wonder if 3250 has reached its hardware limitation to fully implement the HDCP spec.
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post #193 of 956 Old 03-04-2004, 10:59 AM
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Radbert- What version is the firmware on your 3250HD?
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post #194 of 956 Old 03-04-2004, 01:42 PM
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How can I tell?

Quote:


Originally posted by rkwochoski
Radbert- What version is the firmware on your 3250HD?

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post #195 of 956 Old 03-04-2004, 02:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


Originally posted by dt_dc
From: http://www.digital-cp.com/data/HDCPS...tionRev1_1.pdfBased on the above, I would think both the problems you mentioned are in the STB.

I tend to agree, except that if the TV never sends back an ACKnowledge, then the STB will not send video. MSO's are being told to not send video unless HDCP is on and enabled in the recieving set.
Similar situations occur in Serial communications, where one end loses the handshake, but sometimes both com ports have to be reset to get the handshake needed.

Radbert - Check the first post of this thread for instructions.

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post #196 of 956 Old 03-04-2004, 04:01 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Radbert
How can I tell?

On the front of the STB, press and hold the button in the center of the four VOL and CH buttons for about 2 seconds. The green LED by the mail symbol will flash. After that you can release the center button, then press the INFO button and the diagnostic screen will appear. You can use the VOL buttons to scroll through different screens. Look for a screen that lists the software info. I believe the firmware is labeled App(s) and will look like this: 1.50.18.45.

I'm crossing my fingers that you have a newer version than the one listed above; that would give me some hope that when my cableco finally updates our boxes that the dark component picture situation I have will improve.
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post #197 of 956 Old 03-04-2004, 04:15 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by vegggas
I tend to agree, except that if the TV never sends back an ACKnowledge, then the STB will not send video. MSO's are being told to not send video unless HDCP is on and enabled in the recieving set.
Similar situations occur in Serial communications, where one end loses the handshake, but sometimes both com ports have to be reset to get the handshake needed.

vegggas

According to the spec posted, the STB suppose to check video connection at least every two seconds. If TV stops responding, it can do whatever it want. However, if TV returns to responding state (the TV is back on or switched back to DVI input), STB is supposed to initiate HDCP hand shake right away and start transmitting again. This is the part 3250HD did not implement. It only implemented the part that when a device is first plugged in to the DVI port of the 3250, it is required to initiate HDCP hand shake. The HDCP spec. has very detailed information about all these interoperations. I guess we need send SA engineers a copy with the above portion highlighted!
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post #198 of 956 Old 03-04-2004, 05:27 PM
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Thanks. I just checked and I have SARA v1.52.5.d2

After some more fiddling, I think I prefer using 480i Wide mode for everything except HDTV, and having my PB6100 projector do the deinterlacing. My digital movie channels look very, very good. A clear improvement over the HD3100, where my movie channels were mostly unwatchable due to a dark picture.

QUOTE]Originally posted by rkwochoski
On the front of the STB, press and hold the button in the center of the four VOL and CH buttons for about 2 seconds. The green LED by the mail symbol will flash. After that you can release the center button, then press the INFO button and the diagnostic screen will appear. You can use the VOL buttons to scroll through different screens. Look for a screen that lists the software info. I believe the firmware is labeled App(s) and will look like this: 1.50.18.45.

I'm crossing my fingers that you have a newer version than the one listed above; that would give me some hope that when my cableco finally updates our boxes that the dark component picture situation I have will improve.
[/quote]
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post #199 of 956 Old 03-04-2004, 07:54 PM
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Any one have any ideas how we can get a SA Engineer to join this post? Maybe we could get some real answers.
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post #200 of 956 Old 03-04-2004, 08:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


Originally posted by Foxbat121
According to the spec posted, the STB suppose to check video connection at least every two seconds. If TV stops responding, it can do whatever it want. However, if TV returns to responding state (the TV is back on or switched back to DVI input), STB is supposed to initiate HDCP hand shake right away and start transmitting again. This is the part 3250HD did not implement. It only implemented the part that when a device is first plugged in to the DVI port of the 3250, it is required to initiate HDCP hand shake. The HDCP spec. has very detailed information about all these interoperations. I guess we need send SA engineers a copy with the above portion highlighted!

The only thing I'm trying to explain, is that it can work/not work in both directions. It takes both devices to establish the handshake to allow video. Even if the STB is sending a request every two seconds, there is no guarantee that the TV is acknowledging it. If the box is in a constant state of "ON" and sending the request, every two seconds it would continue to do so until turned off or reset. This could easily proven by actually watching something through the DVI port. If the handshake is good and continues to be good the video will remain established. If either device does not receive or send data, then the video is interrupted (AFAIK).
The TV, however is constantly changing states by being turned on and off and changing inputs. It is very likely that the TV could be ignoring or mis-reading those requests for some reason or another. It could assume it already had an HDCP handshake once before and could be having problems establishing a new handshake, other could be potential voltage differences, or anything that throws off the initial handshake.
Just throwing stuff out there.

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post #201 of 956 Old 03-05-2004, 07:05 AM
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The problem here is not whether or not the STB should transimit video when TV is off or switched to another input. The issue is WHEN TV is turned on again or switched back to DVI input, 3250 does not attempt to do HDCP handshake.

My experience posted above proves that SA3250 only do HDCP handshake once and only once when a device is first attached. HDCP spec. clearly put the burden on STB or HDCP transmitter to poll the special register of the receiver or TV to see if the receiver is listening or receiving. If it determines the receiver has transitioned from not active to active it MUST try HDCP handshake immediately. The process is bi-directional in the sense that the TV must provide feed back as whether or not it is receiving by respond to (active) or ignore(inactive) the request from STB to read a special register value. See the following snippet from the document:

Quote:


The transmitter must repeatedly attempt to read an HDCP register, at least once every 2 seconds and preferably much more often. Note that in most cases, if the user is watching video from a different input, the Hot Plug Detect signal will still be asserted but the HDCP Receiver's registers will not be readable. Upon switching to the HDCP input, the user will wish to see valid video within a fraction of a second or they may conclude that the HDCP input is not connected and immediately switch to another input. For this reason, a valid video screen should at all times be transmitted whenever HPD is asserted and authentication should be started immediately after detecting a valid Bksv (Transition A0: A1).

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post #202 of 956 Old 03-05-2004, 01:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


Originally posted by Foxbat121 (edited)
The process is bi-directional in the sense that the TV must provide feed back as whether or not it is receiving by respond to (active) or ignore(inactive) the request from STB to read a special register value. See the following snippet from the document:
quote: (edited)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Note that in most cases, if the user is watching video from a different input, the Hot Plug Detect signal_will_still_be_asserted but the HDCP Receiver's_registers_will_not_be_readable. Upon switching to the HDCP input, the user will wish to see valid video within a fraction of a second or they may conclude that the HDCP input is not connected and immediately switch to another input. For this reason, a valid video screen should at all times be transmitted whenever HPD is asserted and authentication should be started immediately after detecting a valid Bksv (Transition A0: A1).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Were reading the same lines, but interpreting it differently. If the TV's registers are not readable, then the STB does not do a handshake. A video screen SHOULD be transmitted at all times, but I think the TV is losing the sync.

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post #203 of 956 Old 03-05-2004, 01:46 PM
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I think we're talking about different topic here. When TV is not responding, I don't really care what STB does. I care about when TV goes from inactive to active, 3250 should reinitiate HDCP hand shake instead of ignore it. My guess is 3250 continues to deliver encrypted video all the time regardless. Without a proper HDCP handshake, the TV simply can not decode the video or simply think the video data as un-encrypted. Hence the snow screen. It's not the same as loss sync. I know what lossing sync looks like on my TV (blank screen).
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post #204 of 956 Old 03-06-2004, 11:10 AM - Thread Starter
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For loss of sync, I was referring to the data stream, not the video. I should have chosen a better explanation.
Quote:


When TV is not responding, I don't really care what STB does.

The STB CAN'T do anything if the TV is not responding. If it did, this would imply that there is no security on the signal. The TV HAS to send back data to comply with the security issues to allow video to pass from the STB.
Quote:


I care about when TV goes from inactive to active, 3250 should reinitiate HDCP hand shake instead of ignore it.

Yes it should. The TV HAS to send the signal that it is active again. If the TV never sends that data, the STB will never know to reinitiate the hand shake. Without this back and forth checking, you could plug the DVI into an HDCP device, get video, and then disconnect the signal and pull the video stream into a non-compliant device to circumvet the security. That is the reason for the TWO-WAY data to ensure each device is really there and talking.
Quote:


My guess is 3250 continues to deliver encrypted video all the time regardless.

It does, until the TV sends back an "All OK for HDCP" signal. Then the STB sends some video packets, and another "check for HDCP" signal. The TV gets the video packets and the "check for HDCP" data. If the TV sends back the "All OK for HDCP" again, the process continues. If the TV does NOT send back the "All OK for HDCP" data, the STB will STOP sending Video and ask for the handshake again. The TV then has to respond to the handshake and the process starts over again.
Quote:


Without a proper HDCP handshake, the TV simply can not decode the video or simply think the video data as un-encrypted. Hence the snow screen.

Without the handshake or the return of an "All OK for HDCP" type of message from the TV.

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post #205 of 956 Old 03-07-2004, 08:23 AM
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Somewhat related to this handshaking:

Can someone confirm this is normal.

I have 3250HD with a Sony 40" XBR with comcast cable in CT.

I use "pass through" as my best option in the options menu not fixed.

When I turn off TV for night the box defaults back to "fixed" when I turn it back on next morning. I have to press menu twice to change it back every day.

I can find nowhere in any setup to set the default on the 3250HD box to "pass through" instead of "fixed".

It is a real pain to go through the change every time I turn on TV.

Any solutions??
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post #206 of 956 Old 03-07-2004, 09:28 AM - Thread Starter
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This may be related to a return signal level problem. Try changing out the RF cable between the wall and STB or reducing the number of connections from the street to the STB. You probably noticed that the Guide is extremely sluggish and you have to "refresh" the data for almost every channel to read the description.
There is memory problem with systems with EOD services too. Too much memory is being reserved for EOD and not the guide data. SA is working on a better memory manager for all boxes. In the meantime, if after changing the cable and related connections and increasing both the forward and return signal strength and the settings do not remain the same, call the help desk and see if they can redownload the software to the box. It may need to be refreshed if it is on threshold levels.


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post #207 of 956 Old 03-07-2004, 09:50 AM
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veggas:

Coax cable comes from wall to 2 way splitter. (no other TV's in house)

after splitter one goes to TIVO

one goes to 3250HD.

Is the splitter my problem??

By RF do you mean coax cable.

Should i try going direct to 3250HD and cut out TIVO to see if that solves it?

My coax cable is excellent quality.
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post #208 of 956 Old 03-07-2004, 09:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Are you having the Program Guide delay problem?
"(no other TV's in house)"
Are you sure the line from the street enters your dwelling, and goes directly to your TV? Most homes have a single entry point and multiple runs to several rooms, all of which reduce signal levels, even with no TV connected. The only way to know for sure is to trace the lines.
Typical RF weak points: Ends of cables at the fittings (most commonly the shiled is bad), splitters, barrel connectors - anywhere a cable line has a connection point it has insertion loss. Be wary of line amps. Most consumer models only amplify the forward signal and not the return path.
Try swapping the output legs of the splitter, or using the RF bypass of the STB to feed the TIVO. Do a reboot, let it download the data and see if it gets any better over the next day. If not, call the MSO and ask for a "hit" or redownload to the box to see if that clears things up.
Good luck
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post #209 of 956 Old 03-11-2004, 07:34 AM
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My 3250HD is hooked up to my Pansonic 42pwd6 via DVI, very time I plugged the DVI cable in it works. As soon as I changed channel, the "Your TV is not HDCP.... " appeared. The info on the channel appeared at the bottom of the screen but no picture, instead of the picture, I got the "Your TV is not HDCP ..." message. Please help.

thanks
mp
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post #210 of 956 Old 03-11-2004, 08:06 AM
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I was trying out the DVI connection with my 3250HD and received the same exact message and problem you are experiencing. With everything connected, I unplugged the 3250HD for 30 seconds then plugged it back in and it worked fine after that (although I have since gone back to component).
If you haven't tried this, give it a shot.
Good luck!
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