The Official AVS Antenna and Related Hardware Topic! - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 16297 Old 08-15-2004, 06:52 AM
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The CM4221 or 4228 is not much larger than the square shooter.

Currently testing 3D with Sammy DLP, shutter glasses, and HTPC
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post #272 of 16297 Old 08-15-2004, 07:37 PM
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Originally posted by taz291819
The CM4221 or 4228 is not much larger than the square shooter.

The Square Shooter is about 16" square. The 4221 is about twice the size. The 4228 is double that of the 4221.
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post #273 of 16297 Old 08-15-2004, 07:59 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by taz291819
Does FM screw up Ch. 5?

If the FM stations are strong enough, they could cause cross-modulation products with an amplifier that could affect any VHF channel. Even if the interference isn't visible on any channel, it could still be causing the receiver to desensitize. The net result is lower effective TV signal levels reported by the receiver.

If you've ever listened to a distant FM station while driving by a radio tower of another station that's close to the same frequency, you've experienced desensitization, in which the radio gets a "muddy" sound or completely loses the station momentarily.
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post #274 of 16297 Old 08-17-2004, 05:33 AM
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I'm in metro Detroit and am getting a 4228 installed tomorrow.

For the past two years I've used a handful of antennas, including the Silver Sensor, various Terk POS', Radio Shack models, and a Jensen powered antenna that gave me the best performance, until it died, that is. All these antennas were indoor. The Silver Sensor is working fine for Olympic coverage on WDIV, Detroit's NBC station, and is set up as a temporary solution since my Jensen died and until my 4228 is installed.

I'm pretty excited about having this antenna installed, especially since this'll be the third try, with the first two appointments being cancelled for various reasons.

I'm about 22-25 miles from the transmitters, so I'm thinking the 4228 should give me good service. I'll try to update here after the install just as an FYI.

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post #275 of 16297 Old 08-17-2004, 08:29 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by dswallow
The Square Shooter is about 16" square. The 4221 is about twice the size. The 4228 is double that of the 4221.

The 4221 is 20" x 35"
The 4228 is 39.5" x 36"

Though the 4228 is roughly twice the size of the Square Shooter, it's still relatively small compared to most yagis.

I'll admit the 4228 is a heavy SOB for it's size.

Currently testing 3D with Sammy DLP, shutter glasses, and HTPC
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post #276 of 16297 Old 08-17-2004, 09:04 PM
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I've got a channel master 4228 and cm 7775 amp . The antenna is mounted outside. I found out after I got the amp a couple of the stations I want are digital VHF . How can I get a VHF antenna in the mix without a new amp ? BTW the wife factor says if I get another antenna it has to go in the attic. Any idea's or suggestions would be appreciated . Thanks

Later Lenbo
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post #277 of 16297 Old 08-18-2004, 07:51 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by lenbo
I've got a channel master 4228 and cm 7775 amp . The antenna is mounted outside. I found out after I got the amp a couple of the stations I want are digital VHF . How can I get a VHF antenna in the mix without a new amp ? BTW the wife factor says if I get another antenna it has to go in the attic. Any idea's or suggestions would be appreciated . Thanks

The CM7775 preamplifier does NOT PASS VHF. This is why I usually recommend that people buy the 7777 or a Winegard model.

You could buy a VHF antenna like the Winegard PR5030 or if you just need hi-VHF (channels 7-13) you could look at the Winegard YA-1713. But you're going to have to run a separate coax line from that antenna to the point *after* the indoor unit of your preamp if you keep the 7775. They can then be combined with a simple splitter used in reverse (2 inputs, one output.)
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post #278 of 16297 Old 08-18-2004, 07:59 AM
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BTW the wife factor says if I get another antenna it has to go in the attic. Any idea's or suggestions would be appreciated . Thanks

My ex-wife said if I put up another antenna she would divorce me.
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post #279 of 16297 Old 08-18-2004, 12:16 PM
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Quote:


I've got a channel master 4228 and cm 7775 amp . The antenna is mounted outside. I found out after I got the amp a couple of the stations I want are digital VHF . How can I get a VHF antenna in the mix without a new amp ? BTW the wife factor says if I get another antenna it has to go in the attic. Any idea's or suggestions would be appreciated . Thanks

Your best option is to bite the bullet and get the 7777 amp, then use it on the combined setting for uhf/vhf. The 4228 is a pretty good antenna for the high band vhf and would probably be better outside for high band vhf than any antenna in your attic would be.

Another option would be to find a uhf/vhf diplexer that passes DC on the uhf leg. This way you could insert another vhf antenna anywhere along the line and still get the DC power to the 7775 on the 4228. You'd rather keep the preamp as close to the antenna as possible. VHF has relatively little loss along the cable length so you should be able to get away with not amplifying it.
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post #280 of 16297 Old 08-18-2004, 06:07 PM
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Whats the range of VHF signals ? I understand the curvature of the earth comes in to play with UHF, is VHF the same ? The digital hi-band VHF station I want to get is 72 miles away. Could the Antennacraft Y10-7-13 be used for my needs ? Thanks to everyone that has helped me !!! This is a great forum .

Later Lenbo
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post #281 of 16297 Old 08-18-2004, 07:14 PM
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VHF at 72 miles is very doable if the station is at full power. What station are you trying for? I couldn't find a digital vhf other than an NBC 2 in your area. Go to http://www.tvradioworld.com/region1/...tion.asp?m=mob for your area station info (in case you didn't know of this link already).

Ahh, WALA FOX is it? I missed it the first time I looked. AFAICT, it is at 124kw non-directional which is pretty much smokin' power for vhf. The Y10 7-13 should do fine barring some obstruction or geographical problem.

I forgot, this is in your attic, isn't it? I still think you need to consider the 7777 and use your outside 4228. I think a 4228 outside may still be better than the 7-13 in your attic.
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post #282 of 16297 Old 08-18-2004, 08:08 PM
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The 4228 got installed today, and it's sweet. You can't see it at all from the front or even side of the house, it's only visible from the back, which is perfect. I'm now getting what appears to be an 80-90% signal (it's a bar, not a number) on all the .1 channels, which is awesome.

Only thing that's kind of a drag is that the signal doesn't pass thru my 5x8 multiswitch very well, and I can't get anything OTA on the other side of the diplexer. Installer called the owner of his company and was told that the multiswitch can oftentimes degrade the signal, sometimes so much so that it virtually kills it. Not a real big deal though, I'll just get a splitter if I need to send the signal elsewhere.

So, I'm rockin and rollin with a new antenna, and I'm happy that I won't have to fidget with the stupid indoor antenna anymore

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post #283 of 16297 Old 08-18-2004, 08:46 PM
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Thanks for the info, good link . Gonna try and convince the wife about getting the y10-7-13 outside. You were correct about FOX , I have this station on my locals with directv but I want to watch my Saints in HD !!! Again thanks for the help, I'll post the results once I get everything up and running.

Later Lenbo
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post #284 of 16297 Old 08-19-2004, 08:49 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by lenbo
Whats the range of VHF signals ? I understand the curvature of the earth comes in to play with UHF, is VHF the same ? The digital hi-band VHF station I want to get is 72 miles away. Could the Antennacraft Y10-7-13 be used for my needs ? Thanks to everyone that has helped me !!! This is a great forum .

VHF bends very readily. Your primary problem may be co-channel interference. Co-channel interference is when two stations are on the same frequency, in different directions. For instance, I have a Channel 2 that is 75 miles north of me, and another that is about 100 miles south. Sometimes I can't get either of them clearly because the other is overriding the signal.

Also, VHF can suffer interference with tropospheric ducting and e-skip, where distant signals propogate long distances. Although not terribly common, there will be days where you probably won't be able to watch your 72-mile VHF signal and will be able to watch another VHF signal from 1000 miles away. I've received Flagstaff, AZ from southeastern Minnesota once, while a local station 45 miles away was a mess of interference.
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post #285 of 16297 Old 08-19-2004, 08:00 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by phenom
The 4228 got installed today, and it's sweet. You can't see it at all from the front or even side of the house, it's only visible from the back, which is perfect. I'm now getting what appears to be an 80-90% signal (it's a bar, not a number) on all the .1 channels, which is awesome.

Only thing that's kind of a drag is that the signal doesn't pass thru my 5x8 multiswitch very well, and I can't get anything OTA on the other side of the diplexer. Installer called the owner of his company and was told that the multiswitch can oftentimes degrade the signal, sometimes so much so that it virtually kills it. Not a real big deal though, I'll just get a splitter if I need to send the signal elsewhere.

So, I'm rockin and rollin with a new antenna, and I'm happy that I won't have to fidget with the stupid indoor antenna anymore

I have started to think this way about the OTA going thru the multiswitch and needing a diplexer and replacing it with a straight coax run from the antenna to the receiver. KISS is hitting me in the face. Pay the extra cost of the coax run versus getting fancy with a multiswitch which takes in the antenna feed and then using the diplexer. Put a splitter on the antenna and deal with it. I'm planning on getting the HD DirecTivo and the OTA receiver in the box is claimed to be very signal sensitive. For my other HDTV, I was planning on getting the HTL-HD or the Sammy TS360. Anybody have issues with the OTA portion of those receivers?
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post #286 of 16297 Old 08-22-2004, 05:19 AM
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I'm sure there is a simple, obvious answer to my question, so let me apologize for asking right now.

I had used antennaweb.org to get station info previously, but for some reason it won't work for me now, and I can't see why not. Can anyone tell why this isn't working?

1. I go to the home page and select "Choose an antenna"
2. On the next page I enter my address/zip info and click "submit"
3. It takes me to the "Stations" page, and I click "Show all stations"
4. Then, no matter if I hit 'enter' or select "View street level map", it just brings me back to the "Stations" page again. I can't get it to show the channel list, etc. ???

I appreciate your indulgence.
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post #287 of 16297 Old 08-22-2004, 07:13 AM
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It goes down from time to time. I'd just try again later.
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post #288 of 16297 Old 08-22-2004, 12:49 PM
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My main DTV station's are at 260-270 degree's. There's one DTV station I would like to get at 180 degree's from the main one's. Can I take the screen off the 4228 to get the off axis station without loosing the main stations ? Is the screen there for gain or to block multi-path signals and ghosting ? Since all I want is DTV stations would this work ?

Later Lenbo
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post #289 of 16297 Old 08-22-2004, 02:25 PM
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lenbo, is the off-axis station at full power and not too far away? You might be just fine. I can get the full power NYC stations 30 miles away when aiming about 120 degrees away towards Philadelphia with my 4228.
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post #290 of 16297 Old 08-22-2004, 05:31 PM
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Took the screen off the channel master 4228 to try and get a additional channel . Well I had success. WTVY comes in just great .The other channels don't appear to have suffered any , in fact they all seem to come in a few points better.

Later Lenbo
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post #291 of 16297 Old 08-23-2004, 05:05 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by drjeckl
I have started to think this way about the OTA going thru the multiswitch and needing a diplexer and replacing it with a straight coax run from the antenna to the receiver. KISS is hitting me in the face. Pay the extra cost of the coax run versus getting fancy with a multiswitch which takes in the antenna feed and then using the diplexer. Put a splitter on the antenna and deal with it. I'm planning on getting the HD DirecTivo and the OTA receiver in the box is claimed to be very signal sensitive. For my other HDTV, I was planning on getting the HTL-HD or the Sammy TS360. Anybody have issues with the OTA portion of those receivers?

Yeah, I went out and picked up another diplexer, and had no luck with it at all. I already had the coax run for the antenna, since I had an inside antenna before, so no big deal. I just hoped I'd get the most out of my multiswitch.

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post #292 of 16297 Old 08-23-2004, 08:02 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by lenbo
Is the screen there for gain or to block multi-path signals and ghosting ?

For posterity in the thread, here's the answer.

The screen provides two functions. First, it reflects the signal from the primary direction *back* at the active elements, effectively doubling gain. Secondly, the screen rejects signals from the opposite direction, increasing the front-to-back ratio of the antenna. This rejection helps to block multipath (which looks like ghosting on analog signals, so your "and ghosting" is redundant.)

Removing the screen will work in some situations and not in others. For very weak signals, or in areas with extreme multipath, removing the screen will likely cause problems. The only way to know for sure is to try.
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post #293 of 16297 Old 08-24-2004, 01:22 PM
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Hey guys, I'm in the West L.A., CA. area and I'm thinking of jumping to DirecTV and getting locals with an off air antenna. Couple hitches to that are that I live in a condo on the first floor (out of 2 floors), and there's a pretty big building right next to me.

The HOA should allow me to put the dish on a common wall (there are 3 others already there), but as for an antenna, I have no clue. The best bet would seem to be one of those clip on dish antennas, but as I've seen no mention of them here, not sure how well it would perform getting HD signals. According to antennaweb, I'm about 21 miles away from the transmimtters, and need a yellow level antenna (unless I tell it I'm in a multi story building, in which case it says I need a red).

Any suggestions would be appreciated as to a good solution to get the best HD signal possible.

Thanks!
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post #294 of 16297 Old 08-24-2004, 01:55 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by bfranci
The best bet would seem to be one of those clip on dish antennas, but as I've seen no mention of them here, not sure how well it would perform getting HD signals. According to antennaweb, I'm about 21 miles away from the transmimtters, and need a yellow level antenna (unless I tell it I'm in a multi story building, in which case it says I need a red).

The reason why it's not mentioned (though you could do a search and find lots of mentions of it) is because all the clip-on antennas are horrible performers. You would do better with a quality indoor antenna like the Zenith Silver Sensor. That'd be my first try, as well.
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post #295 of 16297 Old 08-26-2004, 03:52 PM
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Not that I'm thinking of getting it, but does anyone know how well (or horribly, be that as it may) the TERK HDTVi(ndoor) antenna works........................?
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post #296 of 16297 Old 08-26-2004, 04:05 PM
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Reports are mixed between good and fair on technical performance, but in common with most reports is the excessive drain on the wallet component.
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post #297 of 16297 Old 08-27-2004, 01:03 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by GRN
Not that I'm thinking of getting it, but does anyone know how well (or horribly, be that as it may) the TERK HDTVi(ndoor) antenna works........................?

If you're referring to the one that retails for $40 at places like Best Buy- don't bother- I picked up a whopping four channels with it and none of them even had a stable signal. I was hoping to upgrade from my VHF/UHF "Rabbit Ears" antenna which picked up 16 channels and most were watchable. You may have better luck but for me this thing just flat out doesn't work.
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post #298 of 16297 Old 08-27-2004, 08:14 PM
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Indoor antenna sufficient for HDTV?

I have ordered the Gemini ZHDTV1 HDTV-UHF Digital Indoor Antenna. This antenna has great reviews at amazon.com. In fact, the reviews are better than I have seen for any piece of electronic equipment, ever.

My question is would I also benefit from installing the Winegards SS-1000, or the SS-2000 antenna which has a built-in 12dB UHF/VHF amplifier better suited for HDTV OFF-AIR reception? (Does the HR 10-250 have inputs for two antenna? The reason I ask is I have heard that to receive all HDTV signals you may need to change the direction of your antenna, and if you only had a stationary outdoor antenna, wouldn't this then present a limitation in this regard?)


I would save time and money if I had the firm that installs my new triple LNB satellite dish and new cables would install this antenna at the same time, if needed.

The installer said I could probably get by with the indoor antenna do to my close location to the HDTV towers. But then he stated that for best reception of non-HD channels I should watch the local over-the-air station broadcasts rather than the local station broadcasts from DirecTV. He told me that the over-the-air broadcast of the local channels are all digital. I had thought that all over-the-air channels with the exception of 480p and above were analog. I guess I was wrong in believing this?

But then after talking to him I thought if I were to follow his advice then shouldn't I get an antennae that also excels at receiving VHF signals? (The Gemini ZHDTV1 HDTV-UHF is principally a UHF antennae.)


Thanks.
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post #299 of 16297 Old 08-27-2004, 08:53 PM
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If you live in an area where you already have VHF DTV stations, of course you'll want a VHF antenna.

Furthermore, if any of your analog stations are currently on VHF, *and* you don't plan on replacing your antenna again in 2007 or so, get a VHF antenna now. The reason is that many of the VHF stations (especially VHF-High ch 7 through 13) temporarily on UHF for DTV will return to VHF after the "analog sunset."
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post #300 of 16297 Old 08-28-2004, 04:56 AM
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Thanks. Now wondering whether I can actually receive these over-the-air non-HD channels with my HR 10-250 and pending Panasonic commercial plasma? Apparently the Panny does not have a NTSC tuner; does the
HR 10-250 have a NTSC tuner? IF not, then what must I purchase/install to receive these stations? Thanks!
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