The Official AVS Antenna and Related Hardware Topic! - Page 166 - AVS Forum
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post #4951 of 16253 Old 06-23-2006, 06:39 AM
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A update on the choices.

Protek 3201 $1375
Instek GSP-810 $1675 (w/ TG $2265)
New:
Protek 7830 "Spectrum Analyzer" under $2600.

I requested a owners manual. Here is the spec sheets. I compared this with the 3201/3290 and I am puzzled regarding them calling this a "Spectrum" Analyzer since there is NO RBW listed in the specs. The only 'bandwidth' that is listed is the same for the 3201/3290;
Quote:


Modulation Bandwidth: Narrow FM:12.5 kHz, AM/SSB:2.4 kHz and Wide FM:180 kHz all at -6db

They also list a "step range";
Quote:


AM/SSB:2.5 kHz fixed. FM:6.25 kHz

It still seems as this 810 is the best buy, but I don't want to rule out the others yet.
LL
LL
LL

Abundant OTA television is what makes this country different from all others. Lets keep it this way.
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post #4952 of 16253 Old 06-23-2006, 07:39 AM
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Hi - rather new to the forum and have found a wealth of information in it.

I recently purchased my HDTV (50 inch Sony) and have a question relating to HDTV reception. I'm not in a position right now to 'upgrade' my cable (WOW) to include the HDTV channels so I went out and purchased an indoor RCA (ant585) which is a powered antenna with 25db of gain (cost $39.95).
I connected the antenna and the TV recognized (found) all my local HD stations.
The stations all come in looking good....but.....here is my problem/question.
It appears that all of the stations experience intermittent sound cut-outs (only lasting for a second or two) and even less occasional picture 'glitches'. Any ideas? Is this just the nature of the local HD broadcasting? or, is the indoor antenna not getting good enough reception? or, is the 25db gain overpowering the tv? I do not experience this with the cable channels.
My first thought was that I need a better antenna.....but before going through that, I wanted to get additional opinion/feedback. I'm about 20 miles from all of my local HD stations with no buildings and just a couple trees nearby.
Any and all feedback/suggestions are appreciated.

Thanks
Alan
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post #4953 of 16253 Old 06-23-2006, 07:51 AM
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Geting back to the 100 & 10 Hz RBW recomendations, the following was taken from Agilents' app. note AN 1315:
Quote:


RBW filter:
Since noise is a function of the RBW filter, use caution when interpreting phase noise or DANLspecifications.
Phase noise specifications are normalized to a 1 Hz RBW filter even if the analyzer does not have a 1 Hz RBW filter. In order to determine the actual achievable phase noise level, it is necessary to convert from the specified 1 Hz RBW to the actual RBW filter used for the measurement. The correction factor is determined as follows: Phase noise level correction (dB) = 10 log (actual RBW /1 Hz)
For example, the phase noise specification for the Agilent E4411B at a 10 kHz offset is –90 dBc/Hz, but the minimum RBW setting is 10 Hz. The correction factor for the 10 Hz RBW is: 10 log (10 Hz/1Hz) = 10 dB. Taking this correction factor into account, the actual achievable phase noise is –80 dBc in the analyzer’s minimum RBW of 10 Hz.


Abundant OTA television is what makes this country different from all others. Lets keep it this way.
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post #4954 of 16253 Old 06-23-2006, 08:10 AM
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Quote:


is the indoor antenna not getting good enough reception? .........is the 25db gain overpowering the tv?

Possibly. See this;
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post7625830

Abundant OTA television is what makes this country different from all others. Lets keep it this way.
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post #4955 of 16253 Old 06-23-2006, 10:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by apotocki View Post

My first thought was that I need a better antenna.....but before going through that, I wanted to get additional opinion/feedback.

Yes, you need a better antenna. Not more expensive, just better. That RCA is a piece of junk. Return it while you still can.

Good indoor antennas are the Terk HDTVi or Zenith Silver Sensor, both of which run about $30. Another good choice, although it doesn't come with a stand is the AntennasDirect DB2. Radio Shack makes an excellent indoor antenna, the 15-624 which runs about $15. If you're getting nearly perfect reception with the RCA, any of these should be more than adequate.
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post #4956 of 16253 Old 06-23-2006, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by apotocki View Post

Hi - rather new to the forum and have found a wealth of information in it.

I recently purchased my HDTV (50 inch Sony) and have a question relating to HDTV reception. I'm not in a position right now to 'upgrade' my cable (WOW) to include the HDTV channels so I went out and purchased an indoor RCA (ant585) which is a powered antenna with 25db of gain (cost $39.95).
I connected the antenna and the TV recognized (found) all my local HD stations.
The stations all come in looking good....but.....here is my problem/question.
It appears that all of the stations experience intermittent sound cut-outs (only lasting for a second or two) and even less occasional picture 'glitches'. Any ideas? Is this just the nature of the local HD broadcasting? or, is the indoor antenna not getting good enough reception? or, is the 25db gain overpowering the tv? I do not experience this with the cable channels.
My first thought was that I need a better antenna.....but before going through that, I wanted to get additional opinion/feedback. I'm about 20 miles from all of my local HD stations with no buildings and just a couple trees nearby.
Any and all feedback/suggestions are appreciated.

Thanks
Alan

Location, Location, Location.

Get the antenna as high as is feasible (mine's at top of living room cathedral ceiling).....and attic is must better if you don't have to adjust it.....and outdoors is always best....
Get it away from other metallic (and wooden) objects as much as is feasible.
And placing it near or preferably pointing through a window towards the towers will usually find a stronger signal.

You didn't say where you were located (zipcode, preferably nearest cross streets), buildings/trees/hills in the way....
If there are no "nearby" stations (within about 10 miles) then I would recommend trying an amplified indoor antenna, such as the fol. amplified variant of the Silver Sensor, which also adds rabbit ears for VHF channels:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...lance&n=172282

Terk makes an amplified VHF/UHF equivalent, the HDTVa, but it costs more and is not enclosed and hence isn't as resistant to abuse:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...23050?n=172282

To make sure that there aren't any nearby low-power stations that could overload an amplified antenna, your location needs to be entered into www.2150.com/broadcast with say a 30 mile radius and be sure to check the "List Low Power" and "List Analog" boxes.
Just to make sure there are no surprises....
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post #4957 of 16253 Old 06-23-2006, 09:26 PM
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> Get it away from other metallic (and wooden) objects as much as is feasible.

Why the recommendation to keep antennas away from wood? I've read that
dry wood is fairly transparent to RF.
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post #4958 of 16253 Old 06-24-2006, 04:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Konrad2 View Post

> Get it away from other metallic (and wooden) objects as much as is feasible.

Why the recommendation to keep antennas away from wood? I've read that
dry wood is fairly transparent to RF.

At the time, I was thinking about "wooden" RPTV and equipment cabinets that might have veneer over metallic frames....with metallic objects inside....including CDs & DVDs with metalic film.

However, I would also be concerned about nearby objects (whether metallic or "semiconductor" wood) perturbing an indoor antenna's gain pattern and esp. VSWR.

=============================================
NIST measured the attenuation of various dry and wet building materials from 500 MHz (UHF CH19)
up through 800 MHz (UHF CH69) and higher:
http://fire.nist.gov/bfrlpubs/build97/art123.html
They also tried to correlate attenuation and material density if you want to predict for other materials...

CH19, CH69:
0.2, 0.6 dB for 1/4 inch (5.7 mm) Single Pane Glass
1.3, 1.8 dB for 1/2 inch (12.5 mm) Single Pane Glass

0.35, 0.6 dB for 3/4 inch Plywood Sheet (Dry)
0.75, 1.2 dB for Two 3/4 inch Plywood Sheet (Dry)

2.0, 2.6 dB for 1.5 inch Spruce-Pine-Fir Panel (Dry)
1.4, 2.1 dB for 3 inch Spruce-Pine-Fir Panel (Dry)
2.0, 3.1 dB for 4.5 inch Spruce-Pine-Fir Panel (Dry)
4.4, 5.5 dB for 6 inch Spruce-Pine-Fir Panel (Dry)

Note the big jump from 1/4 inch to 1/2 inch Glass....very strange...
Also note the attenuation was LESS for the 3 inch thick Panel--even though it was constructed
with criss-crossed 2"x12" planks with less leakage in the cracks....very strange...

So the calculated attenuation through a "typical" roof with a 3/4 inch Plywood Sheet with
100 percent overlap for 3/8 inch thick shingles would be about 0.75 for CH19 and 1.2 dB for CH69.

Which doesn't correlate at ALL with the 13 dB +/- 7 dB attic loss actually measured.

An unexpected result even if some of the more modern ones skew the results with mylar foil backing on insulation....and at least some receive the signal at an angle through multiple 2x12s...

Clearly wooden 2x4s are capable of significantly perturbing the electromagnetic field and I would thereby expect them to perturb the antenna pattern and VSWR of any nearby antenna.
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post #4959 of 16253 Old 06-24-2006, 05:15 PM
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Re. my "eyeball" estimate of about 13 dB +/- 7 dB for indoor and/or attic loss....
Most are unspecified "indoor" locations, so it's difficult to determine whether the height gain
of an attic location is included or not...

And recall that Bob Chase measured roughy 20 dB of loss in his attic....

Here's a 265 page "ATSC Seminar" posted on Zenith's website which summarizes indoor/attic
loss measurements conducted to validate DTV coverage, starting on page 181:
http://www.zenith.com/digitalbroadca...20Appendix.pdf
BTW: It's a 6.7 MB file.

And here are the 525 VU-graphs that goes along with it:
http://www.zenith.com/digitalbroadca...r%20Slides.pdf
BTW: It's a 9.4 MB file.

I know there's a link with only the 19 page summary, but I couldn't get my hands on it....

===============================================
EDIT (12Oct2009): Above links no longer available on Zenith website.
Following is a much shorter 65 VU-graph summary:
http://www.iptv.org/dtv/2001/webpres...nith/index.htm
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post #4960 of 16253 Old 06-25-2006, 05:17 PM
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So I briefly tried getting HD over the air. So far no luck, but will keep trying. Here is the interesting thing though. I have regular old cable, do not pay for HD. I just plugged the coax into my TV. The TV appears to be getting HD channles, and it lists them as 720p or 1080i on the display and 16:9 (I have a Sony 32" xbr1). Does that mean that I am getting HD or does everyone pick up those channels but you only get real HD display if you pay? Anyone have any ideas? Thanks!
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post #4961 of 16253 Old 06-25-2006, 05:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gioux View Post

So I briefly tried getting HD over the air. So far no luck, but will keep trying. Here is the interesting thing though. I have regular old cable, do not pay for HD. I just plugged the coax into my TV. The TV appears to be getting HD channles, and it lists them as 720p or 1080i on the display and 16:9 (I have a Sony 32" xbr1). Does that mean that I am getting HD or does everyone pick up those channels but you only get real HD display if you pay? Anyone have any ideas? Thanks!

On most cable systems, the LOCAL HD channels are being carried as an unencrypted QAM digital signal,
as is mandated by Federal Law to be available as part of BASIC CABLE....for no additonal cost...

DCR (Digital Cable Ready) HDTVs can receive these unencrypted QAM channels without a CableCard decryption module.

Unfortunately, the cable systems go out of their way to not advertise this Federally Mandated requirement...
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post #4962 of 16253 Old 06-25-2006, 07:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by holl_ands View Post

On most cable systems, the LOCAL HD channels are being carried as an unencrypted QAM digital signal,
as is mandated by Federal Law to be available as part of BASIC CABLE....for no additonal cost...Unfortunately, the cable systems go out of their way to not advertise this Federally Mandated requirement...

Where I live, ALL local HD stations are encrypted. Only way to get them on cable is to subscribe to the HDTV package, and subscribe to the digital TV package, and rent the cable box, and if you want HD-PVR thats another ten bucks a month. Sheesh, if there really are FCC rules and regulations (I doubt that there are Federal Laws) that mandate clear QAM on basic cable, these folks are in violation big time.

Sorry for helping to take this so far off the antenna topic. Just had to vent.
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post #4963 of 16253 Old 06-26-2006, 04:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by holl_ands View Post

On most cable systems, the LOCAL HD channels are being carried as an unencrypted QAM digital signal,
as is mandated by Federal Law to be available as part of BASIC CABLE....for no additonal cost...

I don't think there is any such law yet. Cable systems aren't even required to carry the local HD channels (i.e., no "must-carry") let alone send them in a specific manner or package.
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post #4964 of 16253 Old 06-26-2006, 05:27 AM
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Are you sure it doesn't extend to digital channels??

Abundant OTA television is what makes this country different from all others. Lets keep it this way.
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post #4965 of 16253 Old 06-26-2006, 06:10 AM
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It would be impractical to implement at present. A lot of cable companies still use lowpass filters to separate their Basic from itheir deluxe or enhanced basic, so there is no available room below the lowpass point for them in such systems at present.
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post #4966 of 16253 Old 06-26-2006, 08:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil L View Post

Where I live, ALL local HD stations are encrypted. Only way to get them on cable is to subscribe to the HDTV package, and subscribe to the digital TV package, and rent the cable box, and if you want HD-PVR thats another ten bucks a month. Sheesh, if there really are FCC rules and regulations (I doubt that there are Federal Laws) that mandate clear QAM on basic cable, these folks are in violation big time.

Sorry for helping to take this so far off the antenna topic. Just had to vent.

The FCC does require that the cable company provide a cablecard if you request it instead of an HD set top box. That should save a few bucks if you have a TV with a cablecard slot.

- John
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post #4967 of 16253 Old 06-26-2006, 11:16 AM
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edit: nevermind, there are converters to be found everywhere

I'll leave my questions just in case... now I just to have to pull up some floorboards in the attic in order to see the best way to go about fishing the cable from up there to the room below.

I just got my LCD and xbox is a beauty on it. However, that's about all I can do with it until I get the 15-624 I just ordered from Radio Shack based on recommendations given in here.

I have a question about this antenna. What products are recommended for converting the twin-lead to coax -- is it balun or bust? Where would I be able to find these products? The run will not be terribly long (20 feet at most) from my attic.

Thanks in advance, and your patience with the complete newb questions
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post #4968 of 16253 Old 06-26-2006, 12:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by washtenaw View Post

edit: nevermind, there are converters to be found everywhere

I'll leave my questions just in case... now I just to have to pull up some floorboards in the attic in order to see the best way to go about fishing the cable from up there to the room below.

I just got my LCD and xbox is a beauty on it. However, that's about all I can do with it until I get the 15-624 I just ordered from Radio Shack based on recommendations given in here.

I have a question about this antenna. What products are recommended for converting the twin-lead to coax -- is it balun or bust? Where would I be able to find these products? The run will not be terribly long (20 feet at most) from my attic.

Thanks in advance, and your patience with the complete newb questions

Radio Shack also sells Baluns, like these:
http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...entPage=search
http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...entPage=search

Connect the twin-lead on the Balun to the antenna.
The other end of the Balun connects via standard coax down to your TV.
For a short run, lower cost RG-59 coax (Radio Shack again) is quite suitable and expensive RG-6 is overkill.

To minimize noise pickup and minimize loss, it is best to connect the Balun as close as possible to the antenna terminals rather than to the end of the twin-lead that comes with the antenna.
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post #4969 of 16253 Old 06-26-2006, 12:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by holl_ands View Post

Radio Shack also sells Baluns, like these:

(snip)...

Connect the twin-lead on the Balun to the antenna.
The other end of the Balun connects via standard coax down to your TV.
For a short run, lower cost RG-59 coax (Radio Shack again) is quite suitable and expensive RG-6 is overkill.

To minimize noise pickup and minimize loss, it is best to connect the Balun as close as possible to the antenna terminals rather than to the end of the twin-lead that comes with the antenna.

Thanks a ton for taking the time! Weird that product searches for 'balun' really don't turn up much.
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post #4970 of 16253 Old 06-26-2006, 01:06 PM
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this forum or tivo said otherwise...not sure the post..will research it when time permits

57 inch Hitachi 57F710S
Tivo Premiere w/DB8 antenna which gets in VHF 6
Sony T60 2-160 drives unsubbed
Panasonic E80 Dvd recorder
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post #4971 of 16253 Old 06-26-2006, 01:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AntAltMike View Post

It would be impractical to implement at present. A lot of cable companies still use lowpass filters to separate their Basic from itheir deluxe or enhanced basic, so there is no available room below the lowpass point for them in such systems at present.

Here is FCC Factsheet re "Tier Buy Through" as prescibed BY LAW in the 1992 Cable Act:
http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/DOC-231469A1.pdf

1. Local broadcast channels are required to be carried on Basic Cable. [DTV are local broadcast channels.]

2. Basic Cable is the ONLY prerequisite for subscribing to programs available on either a "per channel" or "per event" basic, specifically identified as Premium (e.g. HBO, SHO/TMC, STARZ, CMAX, Playboy) or Pay Per View channels and is to include the entire Multiplex of associated Premium channels (that's over 3 dozen channels for us).

For TWC-SD, it takes 13 QAM channels to carry all of the qualifying and Premium "per channel" multiplexes plus 2 more for Local HD. (Although they could consolidate it into maybe 10 channels total.) At least a few more QAM carriers would be needed for qualifying PPV channels, Cable Modem and VoIP Phone service.

It is conceivable that some of the smaller MSOs have chosen to fit a few--perhaps as many as a dozen--QAM channels into a "gap" betwen Basic Cable and an "Expanded" tier. It would be obvious simply by looking at their channel lineup--there would be a big gap between Basic and "Expanded" channel numbers. However, I doubt that there are more than a handful of systems that have taken this approach.

But certainly not COMCAST, TWC, COX, etc. with their large number of analog and Premium Multiplex choices...plus PPV, OnDemand, VoIP and Cable Modems...

The cable operator would need to use Band Reject Filters to deny access to the "Expanded Tier", such as the fol. BRF-222-526 example:
http://www.soontai.com/BRF.html

Like most MSOs, we have a total of 71-75 analog channels. QAM digital carriers are on higher channels. [BTW: on TWC-SD, two QAM carriers on 91 and 97 MHz (mosty Hispanic tier) are in the "FM Gap".]

So a simple LPF to roll-off "Expanded" cable (and above) simply isn't feasible in modern digital cable systems....it would also roll off access to the Premium Multiplexes, PPV, Cable Modems and VoIP.

So if they erroneously installed an antique LPF filter left over from the '70s, have your MSO replace it with a more modern Band Reject Tier Filter.
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post #4972 of 16253 Old 06-26-2006, 03:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by holl_ands View Post

Here is FCC Factsheet re "Tier Buy Through" as prescibed BY LAW in the 1992 Cable Act:
http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/DOC-231469A1.pdf

1. Local broadcast channels are required to be carried on Basic Cable. [DTV are local broadcast channels.]

Time and again, the FCC has said that digital television is *NOT* covered by the same terms and conditions as analog. You are inferring from this document that digital television is considered legally to be "local broadcast channels." The reasoning behind this is that requiring both would be to require double carriage of broadcast programming - once in analog and once in digital - without any just compensation due to the cable company for the lost bandwidth should local stations invoke "must carry."

Charter Communications does not include HD locals in their basic package, at least in my area. They require a digital subscription in order to receive those channels. If they were in violation of FCC law, something would have been done about this before now. As it is, they've done this for over a year with no response from the FCC.
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post #4973 of 16253 Old 06-26-2006, 06:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deconvolver View Post

The FCC does require that the cable company provide a cablecard if you request it instead of an HD set top box. That should save a few bucks if you have a TV with a cablecard slot.

Well, I don't. I only have a PC card that will tune QAM. I don't mind spending the money for premium channels if I want them. But I am against spending extra money for channels that I can get OTA.
Quote:
Originally Posted by holl_ands View Post

So if they erroneously installed an antique LPF filter left over from the '70s, have your MSO replace it with a more modern Band Reject Tier Filter.

That isn't the case. They do carry one (1) clear QAM channel. I didn't mention it earlier because it is NOT HD. It is the 24/7 weather sub channel from the local ABC station. But they encrypt the main HDTV channel from this same local station. I get this channel fine with my antenna. It's all the other networks that are 70 plus miles away that I would like to get from cable, as my OTA reception is not reliable. The local cable co carries all those distant (analog) station, but only about half of them are available even if you pay for the HD package. Granted the HDTV package does include some premium content, ESPN-HD, Discovery HD, a movie channel or two, etc. All I really want is the OTA networks HD content via clear QAM.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sregener View Post

the FCC has said that digital television is *NOT* covered by the same terms and conditions as analog

I've read several pages of FFC rules , regulations and definitions, and what you said, is the way it looks to me also. Cable "must carry" only one version of a local broadcast on basic cable. And the one my local company chooses to carry is the analog.
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post #4974 of 16253 Old 06-26-2006, 08:08 PM
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Originally Posted by sregener View Post

Time and again, the FCC has said that digital television is *NOT* covered by the same terms and conditions as analog. You are inferring from this document that digital television is considered legally to be "local broadcast channels." The reasoning behind this is that requiring both would be to require double carriage of broadcast programming - once in analog and once in digital - without any just compensation due to the cable company for the lost bandwidth should local stations invoke "must carry."

Charter Communications does not include HD locals in their basic package, at least in my area. They require a digital subscription in order to receive those channels. If they were in violation of FCC law, something would have been done about this before now. As it is, they've done this for over a year with no response from the FCC.

Nothing is simple....let me know if my understanding of the fol isn't accurate/complete....

In Feb 2001, the FCC did not endorse Dual Must Carry rules released in a Jan 2001 "Report and Order", reportedly because they were "ambiguous" (maybe unconstitutional) and hence MSOs are NOT required to carry both analog and digital versions of local channels that elect the "Must Carry" rule.
http://www.gacable.com/images/Digita...Carry-2005.pdf
However, the FCC did endorse the Simplex Digital Must Carry rule for digital only stations.
And "Low Power" stations apparently never had digital Must Carry but want it:
http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/CA6346147.html

The FCC put off--again--the meeting to re-address "Must Carry" rules for local digital multicast signals---reportedly to allow time for it to be addressed in Congress (along with Broadcast Flag, et.al.)---but also cuz they didn't have the "right" concensus---so stay tuned:
http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA6340640.html

=========================================
BUT, we mustn't get too wrapped up in the brou-haha re mandatory "Must Carry" rules.

I've read that most local stations are using "Retransmission Consent" instead--which means it's whatever agreements the local station, local MSOs and franchise entities negotiate into a contract....which could/should mandate that the digital version be available unencrypted as part of Basic Cable.

Here's the Title 47 LAW that mandates that local broadcast channels must remain unencrypted:
http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text...0.1.1.4.23.3.4
§ 76.1904 Encoding rules for defined business models.
(a) Commercial audiovisual content delivered as unencrypted broadcast television shall not be encoded so as to prevent or limit copying thereof by covered products or, to constrain the resolution of the image when output from a covered product.


The wording was actually written by the MSOs and CEA as part of their voluntary Dec 2002 "Plug-and-Play Agreement" that addressed how these spiffy new digital channels are to integrated into Digital Cable Ready TVs via Navigation PODs (CableCard) and non-DCR TVs via DVI/HDMI and Firewire ports:
http://www.1394ta.org/Download/Membe...ile_stamp4.PDF
See pdf page 36 for the applicable section and pg 4 for the MSO signatures, including COMCAST.....

[Thanks to michaelscott for the links in the SA8300HD PASSPORT thread....]

=======================================================
So you have to pester the MSO supervisors to read the fine print and clarify company policy on how to order only Local HD as part of Basic Cable for your Digital Cable Ready HDTV....which of course the CEA/MSOs somehow gerrymandered onto the ATSC Tuner Mandate.

In San Diego (and elsewhere) persistent pestering has resulted in Local (mandatory unencrypted) HD channels being available with only Basic Cable on TWC and COX....but the CSRs are clueless....

In order for Cable Techs to install the "right" Tier Filter, it helps if you have (or had) a service that use a higher frequency (e.g. Cable Modem, cancelled CableCard for a Premium tier buy-through channel(s), STB on a second TV, VoIP?, et. al.)
So YMMV....check your local thread to see if others are getting unencrypted QAM to work...

BTW: On TWC-SD (and other MSOs are following suit), all analog channels are Digital Simulcast on digital QAM carriers--but they are all encrypted--go figure--so much for the "not enough capacity" argument....

Obviously, getting Local HD via cable to work may eliminate the installation/WAF hassles and partial reception problems many of us experience with HDTV Antenna(s)---bringing this post right on-topic...
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post #4975 of 16253 Old 06-30-2006, 12:50 PM
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What kind of antenna would folks suggest for the following? My setup is a HR10-250 HD DVR from DirecTV*:

DTV Antenna
Type Call Sign Channel Network City State Live
Date Compass
Orientation Miles
From Frequency
Assignment
* yellow - uhf KDTN-DT 2.1 DAY DENTON TX 142° 17.5 43
* yellow - vhf WFAA-DT 8.1 ABC DALLAS TX 139° 14.5 9
* yellow - uhf KXAS-DT 5.1 NBC FORT WORTH TX 137° 14.8 41
* yellow - uhf KXTX-DT 40.1 TEL DALLAS TX 137° 14.8 40
* yellow - uhf KTXA-DT 21.1 UPN FORT WORTH TX 142° 17.5 18
* yellow - uhf KSTR-DT 49.1 UNI IRVING TX 142° 17.5 48
* yellow - uhf KUVN-DT 23.1 UNI GARLAND TX 137° 14.5 24
* yellow - uhf KDAF-DT 33.1 WB DALLAS TX 142° 17.5 32
* yellow - uhf KDFW-DT 4.1 FOX DALLAS TX 139° 14.5 35
* yellow - uhf KFWD-DT 52.1 IND FORT WORTH TX 137° 14.6 51
* green - uhf KDFI-DT 27.1 IND DALLAS TX 142° 17.5 36
* green - uhf KPXD-DT 68.1 i ARLINGTON TX 137° 14.4 42
* red - uhf KERA-DT 13.1 PBS DALLAS TX 136° 15.7 14
* red - uhf KMPX-DT 30.1 DAY DECATUR TX 49° 13.9 30
* red - uhf KTVT-DT 11.1 CBS FORT WORTH TX 136° 15.7 19
* blue - uhf KDTX-DT 58.1 TBN DALLAS TX 137° 14.5 45
* blue - uhf KLDT-DT 55.1 IND LAKE DALLAS TX 19° 18.9 54

really only interested in 8.1, 5.1, 21.1, 33.1, 4.1, 27.1, and 11.1
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post #4976 of 16253 Old 06-30-2006, 01:05 PM
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hi first post i got a samsund hdtv lcd, hd is great reg. comcast stinks including hbo, encore, the only great picture is hd, comcast say line is good samsung said i need to live with it , is there anything i can do..
bob
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post #4977 of 16253 Old 07-02-2006, 07:50 PM
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What kind of antenna would folks suggest for the following?

A Channel Master 3021 (4-bay bowtie) should be perfect for your situation. Mount it on the roof if possible, though it will likely work in an attic if you're willing to fiddle with positioning to find the best spot.
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post #4978 of 16253 Old 07-02-2006, 07:55 PM
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Originally Posted by bobby515 View Post

hi first post i got a samsund hdtv lcd, hd is great reg. comcast stinks including hbo, encore, the only great picture is hd, comcast say line is good samsung said i need to live with it , is there anything i can do..

If I understand your problem, you're saying that HD looks great, but analog and SD digital stations look terrible. There are a couple reasons why this is so, and there are some things you can do, but you may never end up happy.

First of all, your new HD set has much better resolution and definition than the older NTSC sets did. It is also probably bigger than your older set was. This is great when the picture is really clear, but when there are flaws, they'll stand out because you can see everything clearly now, while it was blurred before by the limits of the old technology. There's nothing that can be done to make analog look better than it is.

However, properly adjusting your color, brightness, contrast, and the sharpness control (which should be set at zero) may make the picture look better. An overly bright/contrasty picture will look worse than it should. Sharpness actually introduces noise into the picture, and noise is made worse on exactly those things that don't belong. You can adjust these yourself using a DVD like Video Essentials, or you can pay someone who is ISF certified to come out and adjust these things and many others that the average person shouldn't try to mess with. Typically, you'd pay $20 for a DVD and get a pretty good picture, or $300 for an ISF tech and get the best picture your set can display. The choice is yours.
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post #4979 of 16253 Old 07-03-2006, 03:00 PM
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sregener , i think what you said makes lots of sense my 3 y/o rear projection, downstairs in my living room look way better, cable company checked the line tv is 2 weeks old new samsung 4000-1 32 lcd. Channel Master 3021 will this help me with hbo non hd channels????and what kind od dvd is that and where can i buy one
bob
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post #4980 of 16253 Old 07-05-2006, 08:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobby515 View Post

hi first post i got a samsund hdtv lcd, hd is great reg. comcast stinks including hbo, encore, the only great picture is hd, comcast say line is good samsung said i need to live with it , is there anything i can do..
bob

You can consider over-the-air signals for HDTV local channels. You need a ATSC tuner and a UHF antenna. Get antenna & signal info here:
http://antennaweb.org/aw/welcome.aspx

Frank
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