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HDTV Technical > The Official AVS Antenna and Related Hardware Topic!
Jon_Patrick's Avatar Jon_Patrick 08:01 PM 11-30-2004
Here is my antena web info, i have over 80% reception on 8, 17, 41 but i cant even get an image on 3. Any suggestions

http://www.antennaweb.org/aw/Address.aspx

Jon_Patrick's Avatar Jon_Patrick 08:18 PM 11-30-2004
sorry, try 49007 in zip code
Jon_Patrick's Avatar Jon_Patrick 08:42 PM 11-30-2004
ok i am using a medium multi directional antena, what if i bump up to a large directional antenna with a line amplifier, while i see a big difference in reception?
tbb1226's Avatar tbb1226 09:42 PM 11-30-2004
Your "channel 3" is actually broadcast on channel 2 (low VHF), while all the rest of your local digitals are either UHF or high VHF. Going directional should help, but make sure you also look at frequency response of the antenna, and get a combo that has good gain in all bands.
jimc705's Avatar jimc705 10:39 PM 11-30-2004
hew
Don't think an indoor antenna is going to do a good job at that distance. Make sure you can return it if it doesn't work. Here's the best indoor UHF available from Radio Shack special order or ebay at this link.
http://cgi.*********/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...734755989&rd=1
You probably need an outdoor UHF antenna for reliable reception at 50 miles. For $50 you can get an excellent outdoor antenna if you mount it yourself.
cpcat's Avatar cpcat 11:43 PM 11-30-2004
Quote:


ok i am using a medium multi directional antena, what if i bump up to a large directional antenna with a line amplifier, while i see a big difference in reception?

You may not need the amplifier at that distance. You need at least a medium directional and a large directional would be safer. An option would be a vhf/uhf combo such as the CM 3016 :http://www.channelmaster.com/home.htm with a CM 9251 rotator.
Here's a link to gain figures from CM on their Advantage antennas:
http://www.starkelectronic.com/cmg4.htm

They both should be available at Lowe's.

Multidirectional antennas just don't work that well.
grouper's Avatar grouper 05:42 AM 12-01-2004
wondering if anyone in here has used the winegard ss2000, and how the vhf performance is. I'm 40 miles from the towers. or is there a better all around antenna
thanks
sregener's Avatar sregener 07:42 AM 12-01-2004
Quote:


Originally posted by grouper
wondering if anyone in here has used the winegard ss2000, and how the vhf performance is. I'm 40 miles from the towers. or is there a better all around antenna

At 40 miles, if you need both VHF and UHF reception, you should get a medium-to-large VHF/UHF combo antenna, not a fancy little box, even one as fancy as the Winegard SS2000. Probably the SS2000 would work okay on high-VHF (channels 7-13) though not great, and it would work poorly or not at all on channels 2-6.
goldrich's Avatar goldrich 07:44 AM 12-01-2004
Quote:


Originally posted by grouper
wondering if anyone in here has used the winegard ss2000, and how the vhf performance is. I'm 40 miles from the towers. or is there a better all around antenna
thanks

Your location is_________? It is much easier for members to pass along recommendations when they can assess your particular stations, terrain, etc. Thanks.

Steve
blackngold19's Avatar blackngold19 09:16 AM 12-01-2004
Quote:


Originally posted by hew2nd
According to Antennaweb.org I'm about 50 miles from the antennas. I have just purchased (but not yet received) a Mitsibushi Diamond 65" HDTV. I'm wondering if aZenith Silver Sensor Digital Antenna will work. (This would help me save the ridicuolus $50 charge Comcast charges for delivering the set top box.) Besides, I've got the tuner in the TV so I might as well use it if I can.
Thanks
Harry

Good luck with the Silver Sensor at 50 mi. I used it at 35 mi and got CBS at around 70% and ABC in the mid 60's. You have to get outside for best results.
blackngold19's Avatar blackngold19 09:17 AM 12-01-2004
Quote:


Originally posted by grouper
wondering if anyone in here has used the winegard ss2000, and how the vhf performance is. I'm 40 miles from the towers. or is there a better all around antenna
thanks

I am currently using the SS, but I don't think I have any available VHF digital channels from my tower. All I can say is that it works fairly well on UHF for its size at 35 miles.
darimont's Avatar darimont 10:00 AM 12-01-2004
Sorry, but I posted this by itself then found that it belongs here I think.

Samsung 360 overdriving with antenna?

I live in Aurora Illinois about 45 miles from Chicago and have a 40 ft tower with a winegard, I forget what model, but its the next down form there biggest with a winegard preamp mounted on the mast. It seems that if I unplug the preamp that the signal goes up for all the dt channels, but I loose 2.1. With the amp plugged in channel 2.1 is about 70 %, but the others are at 50 %. With out the amp the others go to 90% but I then loose 2.1. My question is, could I be over driving the 360's tuner and the tuner is clamping the other channels? Does anyone have any ideas? With the amp plugged in the other channels are stable. Will over driving the tuner hurt anything?

Just found the numbers, Antenna HD7084p , (edited) Amp ap-8700 I had the wrong amp #

Thanks
Dan
sregener's Avatar sregener 10:38 AM 12-01-2004
Quote:


Originally posted by darimont
Will over driving the tuner hurt anything?

Just your reception.

Sounds like you should replace the amp you have with a AP-3700.
goldrich's Avatar goldrich 10:44 AM 12-01-2004
Quote:


Originally posted by darimont
Sorry, but I posted this by itself then found that it belongs here I think.

Samsung 360 overdriving with antenna?

I live in Aurora Illinois about 45 miles from Chicago and have a 40 ft tower with a winegard, I forget what model, but its the next down form there biggest with a winegard preamp mounted on the mast. It seems that if I unplug the preamp that the signal goes up for all the dt channels, but I loose 2.1. With the amp plugged in channel 2.1 is about 70 %, but the others are at 50 %. With out the amp the others go to 90% but I then loose 2.1. My question is, could I be over driving the 360's tuner and the tuner is clamping the other channels? Does anyone have any ideas? With the amp plugged in the other channels are stable. Will over driving the tuner hurt anything?

Just found the numbers, Antenna HD7084p , Amp ap-2880

Thanks
Dan

Dan,

Your situation sounds very much like the one I used to experience with a couple of stations in my area. Some STB's have small built-in signal amplifiers, so when you add the amplification from the preamp it can be a little too much for the receiver, or at least I found this to be true. I had one station that would actually register "0" (zero) signal strength on the meter when the preamped signal was full-strength. Then I added a RS variable attenuator to the incoming cable. When I reduced the signal just a little, the signal strength meter shot up and I had a great, stable signal level. I'm using the RCA DTC-100 and the LG LST-3100A, and my preamp is the CM 7775.

This might help you out. My 2 cents.

Steve
darimont's Avatar darimont 12:03 PM 12-01-2004
Thanks for the replies guys.

goldrich,
I may try what you said about the RS variable attenuator first, before spending another $60 bucks on different amp. If I can reach some kind of balance between the 2.

sregener,
I looked up the 3700 and I think I may give that a try, as I see it only amps VHF. 2.1 is vhf and the rest of mine are up in uhf range. I may try taking it out as I know when you just unplug it you loose more the if you take it out. Is there a way to just attenuate UHF? I don't like going up the tower unless I have to.

I just wanted to make sure i wasn't going to fry my tuner until i can get this corrected.

Dan
cmassa's Avatar cmassa 10:40 PM 12-01-2004
I've recently purchased a Sony 55XS955 and am extremely happy with it but I need to do something about my antenna, currently a Terk TV50 in my attic (I know, I know). Here are my results for digital stations from antennaweb.org (zip 95973)

KHSL-DT 43.1 CBS CHICO CA 30° 14.1 43
KNVN-DT 36.1 NBC CHICO CA 326° 32.1 36
KCVU-DT 30.1 FOX PARADISE CA 29° 14.6 20
KRCR-DT 34.1 ABC REDDING CA 308° 67.0 34
KIXE-DT 9.1 PBS REDDING CA 308° 67.0 18


I currently get the NBC digital station quite well. Most of the time the CBS digital station has lots of ghost images and I watch the analog channel (12) which also has a few faint ghosts. Funny, when the analog station has bad ghosting, the digital channel is clear. I was getting the FOX digital station well but it is now gone after moving the antenna around some (It is back in its original location and orientation.) I have received the digital PBS for only a few seconds once. I have not gotten the ABC station at all. The analog ABC and PBS stations (7 and 9) are quite snowy as is my UPN station (22 - analog only). Most of the digital stations are just converting their analog channel but TitanTV lists ABC as broadcasting HDTV which I would really like to get. I don't know what power level it is broadcasting and it is 67 miles away. Sacramento stations are a bit far, probably at least 90 miles or more.

I would like to keep the install simple. Inside the attic would be best. I would prefer not to use a rotor (if possible) to keep use of the system easy for the family. I don't think my wife would like changing the antenna direction every time we changed channel. Would something like a DB8 from antennasdirect work? I have a first floor attic over my garage and a second floor attic over the house to use, both have RG6 cables in them. Would I need an amp/preamp? If mounted outside, I would want to keep it low to the roof for asthetics.

Thanks for any recommendations.

Chris
MAX HD's Avatar MAX HD 12:37 AM 12-02-2004
Quote:


Originally posted by darimont
Sorry, but I posted this by itself then found that it belongs here I think.

Samsung 360 overdriving with antenna?

I live in Aurora Illinois about 45 miles from Chicago and have a 40 ft tower with a winegard, I forget what model, but its the next down form there biggest with a winegard preamp mounted on the mast. It seems that if I unplug the preamp that the signal goes up for all the dt channels, but I loose 2.1. With the amp plugged in channel 2.1 is about 70 %, but the others are at 50 %. With out the amp the others go to 90% but I then loose 2.1. My question is, could I be over driving the 360's tuner and the tuner is clamping the other channels? Does anyone have any ideas? With the amp plugged in the other channels are stable. Will over driving the tuner hurt anything?

Just found the numbers, Antenna HD7084p , Amp ap-2880

Thanks
Dan

High power WESH on Ch60 is in Aurora,and swamping your preamp most likely.
cpcat's Avatar cpcat 05:20 AM 12-02-2004
cmassa,

Your only chance for ABC is outside with the best possible antenna setup for distance. It's likely only at 26 kw and with an eventual "full power" of 166kw. I can't tell whether you're in the 41dbu service window because you didn't post your location, but most likely not.

The DB8 outside on a rotor with a preamp such as CM 777x series would be a start, but 26 kw at 67 miles will require some very favorable topography.

See http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?call=KRCR for the info on that ABC station.
darimont's Avatar darimont 06:36 AM 12-02-2004
Quote:


Originally posted by darimont
Thanks for the replies guys.

goldrich,
I may try what you said about the RS variable attenuator first, before spending another $60 bucks on different amp. If I can reach some kind of balance between the 2.

sregener,
I looked up the 3700 and I think I may give that a try, as I see it only amps VHF. 2.1 is vhf and the rest of mine are up in uhf range. I may try taking it out as I know when you just unplug it you loose more the if you take it out. Is there a way to just attenuate UHF? I don't like going up the tower unless I have to.

I just wanted to make sure i wasn't going to fry my tuner until i can get this corrected.

Dan

goldrich and sregener,

I tried the RS attenuator last night and it worked. I have it turned all the way up and even 2.1 is good. I had the wrong number for the amp, its a ap-8700 which is 17db for VHF and 19 for uhf, with the antenuator all the way up its a 20db cut, so this tells me I don't need the amp. I must have been losing alot buy just unplugging the power supply for the preamp, at this point it lookes like I'll be taking the amp out when I feel like going back up the tower.

Thanks Again
Dan
cmassa's Avatar cmassa 08:01 AM 12-02-2004
cpcat,

Thanks for the info. I am located on the north side of Chico. At 26 kw I am outside their service window. At the eventual 166 kw I am inside the service window. The terrain around here is flat. Redding is at the north end of the Sacramento Valley in the foothills. My elevation here is about 150 ft. The transmitters are are at 1900 ft on top of a hill (small mountain?) and about 1000 ft above the average terrain. So at 26 kw, being outside the service window, is it even possible to receive? If I eliminated the Redding digital stations, would a DB8 clear up my reception of other stations?

Chris

Quote:


Originally posted by cpcat
cmassa,

Your only chance for ABC is outside with the best possible antenna setup for distance. It's likely only at 26 kw and with an eventual "full power" of 166kw. I can't tell whether you're in the 41dbu service window because you didn't post your location, but most likely not.

The DB8 outside on a rotor with a preamp such as CM 777x series would be a start, but 26 kw at 67 miles will require some very favorable topography.

See http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?call=KRCR for the info on that ABC station.


DavoM's Avatar DavoM 09:11 AM 12-02-2004
Hey Guys,

I'm in Lehigh Acres, Florida and I am trying to receive UPN programming on from a station in a neighboring community, WTVX in Fort Peirce. We have a real problem with our UPN affiliates in my area and I'm a big Enterprise fan. I'd love to see this show in HD.

For those of you technically inclined I'm wanting to know what it will take to get this channel.

If I've done the math right, it looks like I'm barely over 100 miles from WTVX's transmitter, their tower's height is about 1500 feet, my house's elevation is about 20 feet, and my compass orientation is about 54 degrees. I already have a large directional antenna in the attic pointing the other way picking up the locals from my area, but I'd like to get WTVX as well.

I've looked at the FCC's website and if I'm reading this correctly, it looks like their analog channel has an ERP of 5000 kw, and the digital channel has an ERP of 704 kw. I'm trying to confirm if this is current information w/ the guys in the West Palm thread.

1. Given the wattage and distance I am from the tower, is is this even possible? Is there any other option besides a large roof mounted directional antenna?

2. How does one go about using two separate antennas on a receiver like my HDTivo? Do I need a combiner / splitter? Will I need an amp too?

3. I've heard signals are easier to pick up at night. Is that correct and why?

Thanks in advance for the help.

Peace,

DM
cmassa's Avatar cmassa 10:43 AM 12-02-2004
When installing a new rotor, does a control wire have to be run or can the signal run on the coax? If installing a rotor, running a new wire to my home theater will be very difficult. Could I use unused pairs in a Cat5 wire which is supplying telephone and is already in place?

Chris
squid90's Avatar squid90 12:16 PM 12-02-2004
New to the forum and wonder about experiences with nearby radio towers and interference with OTA reception. Haven't purchased an antenna yet, but antennaweb indicates a potential for reception of digital and analog stations.

The radio tower resides approximately 1 mile west of my home and primary local signals from KC are nearly 180 degrees opposite direction. I realize probable difference in frequency spectrum but defer to those more knowledgeable by experience or otherwise.
sregener's Avatar sregener 12:52 PM 12-02-2004
Quote:


Originally posted by DavoM
1. Given the wattage and distance I am from the tower, is is this even possible? Is there any other option besides a large roof mounted directional antenna?

2. How does one go about using two separate antennas on a receiver like my HDTivo? Do I need a combiner / splitter? Will I need an amp too?

3. I've heard signals are easier to pick up at night. Is that correct and why?

1. Possible? Yes. Probable? No. Darn-near-impossible? Yup. But if you have really flat land between you and the broadcasting tower, are willing to get a very-large UHF antenna (think 8-9' long) and put it up as high as your local codes allow (probably between 50-70') you have a shot.

2. You'd use a Channel Master "Jointenna" for the channel number you're trying to get. It has two inputs and one output - one input for the specific channel number you want to receive, and one for everything else.

3. It's been my experience that nighttime reception is better than daytime. A large part of this is the sun's action on the troposphere, which is where all long-distance reception of UHF signals comes from.

I have a 54' tower, an AntennasDirect91XG, a 28db UHF preamp, and I get stations from as far away as 89 miles, on a good day. On a bad day, anything beyond 60 miles is iffy. My terrain is average (somewhat hilly) and my location is not very high.
sregener's Avatar sregener 12:54 PM 12-02-2004
Quote:


Originally posted by cmassa
When installing a new rotor, does a control wire have to be run or can the signal run on the coax? If installing a rotor, running a new wire to my home theater will be very difficult. Could I use unused pairs in a Cat5 wire which is supplying telephone and is already in place?

A rotor control wire contains 3 leads. Phone wire can work in some cases, but if it gets very cold where you are, there may not be enough conductivity to get that power (12V) up there. Also, if you use the rotor while on the phone, the voltage could easily bleed over and disrupt your telephone conversation.

Coax only has two connections, so it can't be used to run a rotor.
jimc705's Avatar jimc705 01:07 PM 12-02-2004
Davo,

Your talking a 100 miles is possible but highly unlikely to to the curveture of the earth. Here's a link to the coverage area for WTVX. If your in the coverage area you should get it fairly easy. Outside but still close to the line 50/50 chance. Way outside forget it.
http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-serv...=DT616115.html

At that distance you would need to probably stack UHF antenna with a amp. Considerable investment for one channel. Good Luck.
jimc705's Avatar jimc705 02:02 PM 12-02-2004
enoree,
http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-serv...=DT595738.html
coverage map for char;otte fox. You're on the very edge of reception.

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-serv...=DT618270.html
also very edge of reception.

If you ditch the rat shack amps and get a good cm 7777 and a cm 4228 or antennas direct xg91 I think you'll get Columbia. You can order the antennas direct xg 91 and return it if it doesn't work. Best gurantee of any antenna manufacturer. The rat shack amps have too much noise for very low signal level. The CM has 2.0 Rat Shack typically higher then 4 db and at UHF about 6 to 8 DB a lot of noise. You still may only get evening reception but I think it will lock and look good.
Scrape the rat shack preamps ant UHF antenna.
DavoM's Avatar DavoM 03:40 PM 12-02-2004
Jim,

Thanks for the help.

Peace,

DM
cpcat's Avatar cpcat 10:14 PM 12-02-2004
Quote:


So at 26 kw, being outside the service window, is it even possible to receive? If I eliminated the Redding digital stations, would a DB8 clear up my reception of other stations?

Cmassa,
It's possible. Most likely you'll not get consistent reception until they go full power whatever you do, though. You should get more consistent reception on the closer stations anyway if you go outside. The DB8 probably is the best single broadband uhf option for distance. The disadvantage to an 8-bay is it acts like a sail and presents a fair amount of wind load to the rotor and mount. Another option would be a yagi/corner reflector such as the xg91. You'll give up some minimal gain below ch. 40 compared with the 8-bay but it's lighter and easier on the installation. You can also get another and stack them later if you need more antenna.
ticoar's Avatar ticoar 10:49 AM 12-03-2004
Whats the best method for splitting the antenna signal to reach multiple tv's?
Tags: Channel Master Cm 4228 8 Bay Hdtv Uhf Antenna Cm4228hd
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