The Official AVS Antenna and Related Hardware Topic! - Page 28 - AVS Forum

AVS Forum > HDTV > HDTV Technical > The Official AVS Antenna and Related Hardware Topic!

HDTV Technical

sheriffwoody's Avatar sheriffwoody
07:18 PM Liked: 10
post #811 of 16297
12-27-2004 | Posts: 16
Joined: Mar 2004
Searched forum for answer but must not have come up in awhile. I am switching to DishNet and I understand that I need an ant for HD locals. I have been to ant. choosing website but need local Vegas answers. I live in NW (Buffalo/Cheyenne). With the ant. that clips on the sat dish pick up the HD locals? Or will I need to get say a Terk 55? Suggestions??? Thanks in advance.
I will be using component hook up on a 50" pio Plasma. No DVI. Dishnet model #6000HD or the newer box.
HiDefSooner's Avatar HiDefSooner
10:10 PM Liked: 10
post #812 of 16297
12-27-2004 | Posts: 622
Joined: Nov 2001
If anyone is having a hard time pulling in VHF DTV channels you might want look how I beat my VHF DTV reception here in OKC.

http://www.hdtvok.com/mod.php?mod=us...u=13&page_id=6
yearoftherabbit's Avatar yearoftherabbit
06:08 AM Liked: 10
post #813 of 16297
12-28-2004 | Posts: 15
Joined: Feb 2004
I live in an apartment in Lewisville, Texas and need an indoor antenna. What is the best one to try first? I am looking at the Zenith silver sensor mentioned on this site. I know that an outdoor antenna would be the better option but I have no room living in an apartment. I have also seen people on this forum reference a $50 radio shack amplified antenna that seems to work well. What would be my best option to start with? I checked on antennaweb and I about roughly a little less than 30 miles from the nearest transmitter (NBC, CBS, ABC, etc). I have a feeling I may be out of luck but thought I would ask. Thanks in advance!
gkman1's Avatar gkman1
06:13 AM Liked: 10
post #814 of 16297
12-28-2004 | Posts: 260
Joined: Jul 2003
I bought the silver sensor last night...it pulled in a strong signal from ABC....couldn't get anything else....ABC is about 15 miles from me......the others are about 30...have also tried Phillips and RCA amplified antennas....same luck.....I kind of live in the valley ...I might try an attic antenna.....or just settle with what I have....try a few out...you can always return them.
jimc705's Avatar jimc705
08:11 AM Liked: 10
post #815 of 16297
12-28-2004 | Posts: 275
Joined: Oct 2004
Assuming all the digital channels are UHF this is one of the best. Yep it's ugly but works.
http://www.radioshack.com/product.as...%5Fid=930-0998

If that's not what you looking for or doesn't do the job then the your have to go outside with this.
http://www.winegard.com/offair/squareshooter.htm

Lot more money but probably the next best thing to a full size outside antenna. Good Luck
yearoftherabbit's Avatar yearoftherabbit
08:27 AM Liked: 10
post #816 of 16297
12-28-2004 | Posts: 15
Joined: Feb 2004
Quote:


Originally posted by jimc705
Assuming all the digital channels are UHF this is one of the best. Yep it's ugly but works.
http://www.radioshack.com/product.as...%5Fid=930-0998

If that's not what you looking for or doesn't do the job then the your have to go outside with this.
http://www.winegard.com/offair/squareshooter.htm

Lot more money but probably the next best thing to a full size outside antenna. Good Luck


I think a few of the channels are VHF (ABC is the one I have noticed). I might try that radioshack one. Do I have to buy a separate antenna for VHF to try and pick up the ABC station? I know it's a dumb question but I am new at this It seems that only WFAA ABC is the only station on my list that doesn't also have a UHF version available. All of the other big ones like NBC, CBS, PBS, etc. have them. That is very strange.
dpiroh's Avatar dpiroh
11:09 AM Liked: 10
post #817 of 16297
12-28-2004 | Posts: 11
Joined: Nov 2002
OK...probably a dumb question...
I live about 20 miles from NY & have an antenna in the attic pointing at Empire State, and receive NBC, CBS, ABC OTA HDTV.
About 180 degrees out is my local PBS HDTV, that I can receive if I rotate the antenna (killing the network feeds).
I have another antenna from my Mom's house...can I just connect the twin leads all together before they go into the coax without screwing up anything? Or do I need some sort of splitter/combiner?
Thank you!
mws6468's Avatar mws6468
11:19 AM Liked: 10
post #818 of 16297
12-28-2004 | Posts: 149
Joined: Oct 2004
Quote:


Originally posted by yearoftherabbit
I think a few of the channels are VHF (ABC is the one I have noticed). I might try that radioshack one. Do I have to buy a separate antenna for VHF to try and pick up the ABC station? I know it's a dumb question but I am new at this It seems that only WFAA ABC is the only station on my list that doesn't also have a UHF version available. All of the other big ones like NBC, CBS, PBS, etc. have them. That is very strange.

I use the RS 15-1880 and have decent luck with UHF. I too live in an apt, but i face SW when the towers are NE of me, so if you face the towers you should be a LOT better off. I am working on a cut antenna for Ch 7 here in KC.
dswallow's Avatar dswallow
11:54 AM Liked: 10
post #819 of 16297
12-28-2004 | Posts: 1,469
Joined: Dec 2000
Quote:


Originally posted by dpiroh
OK...probably a dumb question...
I live about 20 miles from NY & have an antenna in the attic pointing at Empire State, and receive NBC, CBS, ABC OTA HDTV.
About 180 degrees out is my local PBS HDTV, that I can receive if I rotate the antenna (killing the network feeds).
I have another antenna from my Mom's house...can I just connect the twin leads all together before they go into the coax without screwing up anything? Or do I need some sort of splitter/combiner?
Thank you!

Ideally to do such a thing you'd use devices which would notch out the frequencies you wanted to pick up from the second antenna from the output of the first antenna before you combined them; this is because each antenna is likely to be picking up something of the signal from the back which would probably interfere enough when mixing the two you'd have more problems.

Some antennas have a reasonable gain from the rear and sides; for example I can aim my Channel Master 4228 at Philadelphia (60 miles away) and still receive WCBS from NY (30 miles away) even though it's 120° off-axis from the direction the antenna is aimed (haven't tried that again to see if I can pick up any other NY channels since they've gone higher power than they were a year and a half ago).

A lot will depend on your antenna, and what stations may exist on the same frequencies off in each direction which may interfere with stations you want, and what power all those stations are transmitting with, and whether or not there's objects around which might generate some multipath.

In other words, you can always try; and there's things you can do to help it out (notch filters), but in the end, you can't be sure until you experiment.
dswallow's Avatar dswallow
11:56 AM Liked: 10
post #820 of 16297
12-28-2004 | Posts: 1,469
Joined: Dec 2000
BTW, everyone...

It's really helpful in the kind of discussion that goes on in this thread if you'd edit your profile and include your city and state; even though you might mention it in a post where you first ask a question, that can become lost after a little back and forth discussion (moreso when other discussions occur inbetween) and things can get confusing.



dpiroh's Avatar dpiroh
11:56 AM Liked: 10
post #821 of 16297
12-28-2004 | Posts: 11
Joined: Nov 2002
Thank you Doug (from this Doug!)...who will also be spending the summer in Long Branch this year!
dswallow's Avatar dswallow
12:02 PM Liked: 10
post #822 of 16297
12-28-2004 | Posts: 1,469
Joined: Dec 2000
Quote:


Originally posted by dpiroh
Thank you Doug (from this Doug!)...who will also be spending the summer in Long Branch this year!

Oh, and to answer the actual question you had... you'd combine antennas using a splitter (which could be called a combiner; they work both ways). Notch filters would be installed just prior to each antenna going into a splitter/combiner to eliminate frequencies from each. And there's certain devices like the CHannel Master Jointenna, which combine all this into one package for some limited frequency ranges. To be able to make clean enough notches for adjacent frqeuncies can require some expensive filters, though, so as long as the stations aren't too close together with stations on the other antenna, it's not too costly; but if there were adjacent channels, you'd be spending as much as $100-$200 for some high quality filters.

All this stuff would be best done by a professional installer who had the equipment to try out first, rather than going and buying all these things to try. Unfortunately some stuff tends to be custom-made, so it's not all that likely even pro installers would have specialized notch filters at their disposal to try out.
jimc705's Avatar jimc705
12:12 PM Liked: 10
post #823 of 16297
12-28-2004 | Posts: 275
Joined: Oct 2004
yearoftherabbit,
If you need VHF for just one channel build your own dipole with 300 ohm twin lead cut to the correct length for that channel. Very easy to do here is a link to do so.
http://www.wfu.edu/~matthews/misc/dipole.html

Then get a vhf/uhf combiner to join the 2 into one downlead. The dipole has about 2.5 db gain front and to the rear. It will also pick up other high band channels but will do best at the particular frequency it was made for. There is no back rejection so you can pick up from 2 different stations in opposite directions. You cab buy all the supplies at your local radio shack.
jimc705's Avatar jimc705
12:21 PM Liked: 10
post #824 of 16297
12-28-2004 | Posts: 275
Joined: Oct 2004
diproh,
You can give it a shot but unless the signals are extremely strong I doubt it will work. I've tried before and ended up losing a few channels if not all. The cheapest and easy way is to install a dedicated antenna for PBS and then use an A/B switch to switch between them. This way you'll have no additonal loss of signal and will get all the stations you want. An A?B switch can be bought locally for less then $5. You'll need an additional coax run for the second antenna to your switch.

Exception if PBS is a VHF channel then you can just combine them with a VHF/UHF combiner/splitter.
sregener's Avatar sregener
02:46 PM Liked: 10
post #825 of 16297
12-28-2004 | Posts: 3,085
Joined: Mar 2002
Quote:


Originally posted by dpiroh
I have another antenna from my Mom's house...can I just connect the twin leads all together before they go into the coax without screwing up anything? Or do I need some sort of splitter/combiner?

Get a ChannelMaster "Jointenna" designed for the PBS station in question. For about $10, you'll have a solution that's much cheaper than notch filters.
sf49ersnfl's Avatar sf49ersnfl
01:30 PM Liked: 10
post #826 of 16297
12-29-2004 | Posts: 302
Joined: Nov 2004
I am only able to recieve cbs at about 25% from with a silver sensor. Any tips on how to improve silver sensors performance. I am about 45 miles away from the transmitter. Thanks in advance
blackngold19's Avatar blackngold19
01:44 PM Liked: 10
post #827 of 16297
12-29-2004 | Posts: 351
Joined: Nov 2004
At 45mi, you are really asking alot of that antenna. Can you have a small outside antenna?
chico123's Avatar chico123
10:39 PM Liked: 10
post #828 of 16297
12-29-2004 | Posts: 2
Joined: Sep 2004
hello everyone,

i am brand new to this but have been lurking for a few days.
anyway, i just hooked up a silver sensor to my new sony built-in hd set, tuned it in to channel 10.1 and everything has been going strong. i live in davis (about 25 miles from the towers).

the problem comes when i go to any other hd channel. 3.1, 13.2, 40.1, etc.
none of them will keep a consistent signal for more than 30 seconds or so. the signal jumps from 40 to 75 or 80, back down to 40 and dropping out.

i have experimented with moving the silver sensor around but nothing is helping yet. plus it has been raining on and off and looks like it will continue for the next few days.

i obviously will keep trying but in the meantime...any ideas? hints? tips? seems very strange that one channel would come in crystal clear but can't keep a signal going on any other frequency.

thanks in advance
sregener's Avatar sregener
07:16 AM Liked: 10
post #829 of 16297
12-30-2004 | Posts: 3,085
Joined: Mar 2002
Quote:


Originally posted by chico123
i live in davis (about 25 miles from the towers).

i obviously will keep trying but in the meantime...any ideas? hints? tips? seems very strange that one channel would come in crystal clear but can't keep a signal going on any other frequency.

Well, it's hard to help you since I can't do any investigation into the power or location of the transmitters for the stations you returned. Why?

From Google: Results 1 - 10 of about 44,900,000 for Davis

A state would be a big boost in figuring out what stations you should be receiving.
jimc705's Avatar jimc705
07:35 AM Liked: 10
post #830 of 16297
12-30-2004 | Posts: 275
Joined: Oct 2004
You are experencing multipath. Sorry but the silver sensor probably will never work in this case. You'll need a good directional antenna to get rid of the multipath. The signal is bouncing and coming into the antenna in several different directions at different times cancelling each other. This is why the signal level is going up and down. The channel 10.1 you are getting is either a straight shot from the transmitter to you , or is close enough that the main signal is very strong and overides the multipath signals.

As Serenger says know way to help you without more info about your location. Zip code will do. Add in any other info like mountains in east within 1/4 mile or tall building next door between you and transmitters. Then someone will be able to assist you better. Go to antennaweb.org and put in your address to see what directions the transmitters are.
upNdown's Avatar upNdown
08:31 AM Liked: 15
post #831 of 16297
12-30-2004 | Posts: 207
Joined: Sep 2004
I'm just south of Boston and all the channels I'm after are 16-17 miles away (and all within 2 degrees).

* yellow - uhf WSBK-DT 38.1 UPN BOSTON MA 309° 17.0 39
* yellow - uhf WMFP-DT 18 SAH LAWRENCE MA FCC Ext 309° 16.3 18
* yellow - uhf WFXT-DT 25.1 FOX BOSTON MA 309° 16.0 31
* yellow - uhf WGBH-DT 2.1 PBS BOSTON MA 309° 17.0 19
* yellow - uhf WGBX-DT 44.1 PBS BOSTON MA 309° 17.0 43
* yellow - uhf WBZ-DT 4.1 CBS BOSTON MA 309° 17.0 30
* yellow - uhf WCVB-DT 5.1 ABC BOSTON MA 309° 17.0 20
* yellow - uhf WHDH-DT 7.1 NBC BOSTON MA 311° 16.1 42


I guess I'm going to order a DB4 from Antennas direct. My only question is, is this 'medium range' antenna too much for me? Am I likely to experience this 'multi-path' I read so much about? I just don't feel safe getting a short range antenna at this distance. It will be mounted on a mast on the chimney atop the 2nd floor of my home (where my old falling abpart 1970's antenna currently resides).

Thanks for your feedback.
blackngold19's Avatar blackngold19
08:53 AM Liked: 10
post #832 of 16297
12-30-2004 | Posts: 351
Joined: Nov 2004
Quote:


Originally posted by upNdown
I'm just south of Boston and all the channels I'm after are 16-17 miles away (and all within 2 degrees).

* yellow - uhf WSBK-DT 38.1 UPN BOSTON MA 309° 17.0 39
* yellow - uhf WMFP-DT 18 SAH LAWRENCE MA FCC Ext 309° 16.3 18
* yellow - uhf WFXT-DT 25.1 FOX BOSTON MA 309° 16.0 31
* yellow - uhf WGBH-DT 2.1 PBS BOSTON MA 309° 17.0 19
* yellow - uhf WGBX-DT 44.1 PBS BOSTON MA 309° 17.0 43
* yellow - uhf WBZ-DT 4.1 CBS BOSTON MA 309° 17.0 30
* yellow - uhf WCVB-DT 5.1 ABC BOSTON MA 309° 17.0 20
* yellow - uhf WHDH-DT 7.1 NBC BOSTON MA 311° 16.1 42


I guess I'm going to order a DB4 from Antennas direct. My only question is, is this 'medium range' antenna too much for me? Am I likely to experience this 'multi-path' I read so much about? I just don't feel safe getting a short range antenna at this distance. It will be mounted on a mast on the chimney atop the 2nd floor of my home (where my old falling abpart 1970's antenna currently resides).

Thanks for your feedback.

The DB4 should be more than enough from that distance. I have it at 36 miles , and it's the best antenna for the price and size..only 29" x 16".
upNdown's Avatar upNdown
08:57 AM Liked: 15
post #833 of 16297
12-30-2004 | Posts: 207
Joined: Sep 2004
Quote:


Originally posted by blackngold19
The DB4 should be more than enough from that distance. I have it at 36 miles , and it's the best antenna for the price and size..only 29" x 16".

Right. My question is, will it be TOO MUCH antenna? Isn't that how you get multi-path problems?
sregener's Avatar sregener
09:49 AM Liked: 10
post #834 of 16297
12-30-2004 | Posts: 3,085
Joined: Mar 2002
Quote:


Originally posted by upNdown
Right. My question is, will it be TOO MUCH antenna? Isn't that how you get multi-path problems?

No. Multipath problems actually come from having too little antenna.

The higher the gain of an antenna, the more directional it is. The more directional the antenna, the less likely it is to pick up bounced signals on the side lobes. The less side lobe signals it picks up, the less likely a multipath signal will be strong enough to interfere with reception.

Attenuators work in multipath environments not because they reduce the capabilities of the antenna, but because they reduce the strength of all signals reaching your receiver. When you listen to a complicated piece of music, you can turn the volume down low enough so you can only hear the primary instruments. When you turn it up, even the faint instruments become audible. Essentially, an attenuator turns down the volume, hopefully leaving the one crisp, clear signal you actually want while "muting" the quieter reflected signals.

There is no such thing as too much antenna.

There is, however, such a thing as too much amplification. Preamplifiers (and amplifiers, an inferior version of the preamp because it seeks to amplify the signal only after it has suffered transmission line loss) work in reverse of an attenuator. They turn the volume up. Turn up the volume enough and even the weakest reflection becomes strong enough to confuse the receiver. However, when background "hiss" is almost equal to the strength of the received signal, there is no alternative - more antenna or more amplification is necessary to get a digital lock.
blackngold19's Avatar blackngold19
09:58 AM Liked: 10
post #835 of 16297
12-30-2004 | Posts: 351
Joined: Nov 2004
Quote:


Originally posted by upNdown
Right. My question is, will it be TOO MUCH antenna? Isn't that how you get multi-path problems?

The DB4 is the smallest you could possibly go with outside, aside from a SS which costs more and has less gain. The DB4 is a very good antenna to start with. Let me know how it works out..
sf49ersnfl's Avatar sf49ersnfl
06:08 PM Liked: 10
post #836 of 16297
12-30-2004 | Posts: 302
Joined: Nov 2004
At 45mi, you are really asking alot of that antenna. Can you have a small outside antenna?



No I cannot have an outdoor so how can i improve my silver sensor if any way to get a higher signal.
tbb1226's Avatar tbb1226
07:22 PM Liked: 10
post #837 of 16297
12-30-2004 | Posts: 1,521
Joined: Nov 2002
Quote:


Originally posted by sf49ersnfl
At 45mi, you are really asking alot of that antenna. Can you have a small outside antenna?



No I cannot have an outdoor so how can i improve my silver sensor if any way to get a higher signal.

You can't.

However, you can improve your attitude when asking for help.
cpcat's Avatar cpcat
08:49 PM Liked: 10
post #838 of 16297
12-30-2004 | Posts: 6,471
Joined: Nov 2003
Quote:


Originally posted by sf49ersnfl
At 45mi, you are really asking alot of that antenna. Can you have a small outside antenna?



No I cannot have an outdoor so how can i improve my silver sensor if any way to get a higher signal.

Outdoor is best. Next best would be a large antenna such as the 4228 in your attic. Next would be a medium outdoor antenna but used indoors and pointed out a window in the direction of the tower (DB4, 4221). After that, it'd be to try moving around with the silver sensor in the room or even move it to a higher point in the house if possible.
sregener's Avatar sregener
06:54 AM Liked: 10
post #839 of 16297
12-31-2004 | Posts: 3,085
Joined: Mar 2002
Quote:


Originally posted by tbb1226
You can't.

However, you can improve your attitude when asking for help.

First of all, I don't think his attitude was a problem. There are a lot of newbies this time of year (post-Christmas), and it's not wrong for them to ask questions. His answer was short, but not rude. It did not, for example say, "I can't put it outside, you *****. Why don't you stick your antenna where the *******************?"

Secondly, is sf49ersnfl sure he can't put up an outside antenna? Read: http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html for an explanation of what rules and restrictions on outdoor antennas are applicable.

Third, a preamplifier might help, though it is doubtful. sf49ersnfl should check for snow on analog UHF stations and if he has a lot, an amplifier is a good idea. If, instead, he has ghosting, he shouldn't bother with an amplifier. If there's some ghosting, a variable attenuator from Radio Shack could greatly improve reception.

Finally, placement is a key component of reception quality. The Silver Sensor should be placed as high in the house as possible, as near to the side of the house where the signals are coming from. Some experimentation might be necessary.
mws6468's Avatar mws6468
11:03 AM Liked: 10
post #840 of 16297
12-31-2004 | Posts: 149
Joined: Oct 2004
Need help with a VHF channel... I just bought a cut channel for channel 7 ABC-DT in KC but cannot get a signal, i can get better with just a pair of rabit ears, still no lock .. only about 50%. Any ideas??? Do i need to amplify it signal?

* red - vhf KMBC-DT 9.1 ABC KANSAS CITY MO 61° 15.7 7
Tags: Channel Master Cm 4228 8 Bay Hdtv Uhf Antenna Cm4228hd

Gear in this thread
Reply HDTV Technical

Subscribe to this Thread

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3