The Official AVS Antenna and Related Hardware Topic! - Page 493 - AVS Forum
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post #14761 of 16253 Old 04-29-2012, 08:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fireflimoon View Post

Arxaw,

If I can't get one of those "older" versions of the 7777, I was thinking of the next alternative(s). The Wingard AP8780 (high amplication figures) and the CPA19 (because of the low noise figure) seemed possible.

Do you (or anyone else) have any thoughts or experience with these.

Thanks for your replies...

You might be better off with the AP 8700 if your total coax run doesn't exceed 150'. You can also use RG11 for the main run of coax to cut down on the loss a little. You need to be careful with high gain preamps because they can get overloaded. Use just enough gain to do the job.

Chuck
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post #14762 of 16253 Old 04-29-2012, 08:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arxaw View Post

I have tried the new model in a weak signal situation and it can't hold a candle to the performance of the older model.

It would be nice to be able to quantify this but I can't find any specs on the new versions besides gain. Something must be terribly wrong to be as bad as you describe. Maybe a call to CM would shed some light on this.

Chuck

Edit: I found the noise figure for the new CM preamps - 2.8 dB. That's 0.8 dB worse on the UHF than the old CM7777 and the same on VHF. There's also 4 dB more gain on UHF. Those changes alone would not be noticeable to anyone under real life reception conditions. There must be another issue. Overload from an out-of-band signal that's not being rejected by the new model? It would be interesting to figure out what's going on. Shame on CM for marketing these as "improved" when they seem to be only replacements for the old models.
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post #14763 of 16253 Old 04-29-2012, 09:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calaveras View Post

...Edit: I found the noise figure for the new CM preamps - 2.8 dB. That's 0.8 dB worse on the UHF than the old CM7777 and the same on VHF. There's also 4 dB more gain on UHF. Those changes alone would not be noticeable to anyone under real life reception conditions. There must be another issue. Overload from an out-of-band signal that's not being rejected by the new model?

My results are strictly anectdotal, but I know it wasn't overload in this particular case, as you can see from her TVFool (!):

The lady had ordered a "new" 7777 and a 4221HD, which was working in another similar (deep valley) reception situation. I installed it and got nothing. I had an old model 7777 with me and swapped it out and got both available channels. It's quite possible her 7777 was defective, but don't know. (She sent it back for a refund). All I know is in this difficult reception situation, it didn't work, and I'm not recommending new CM preamps to anyone.
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post #14764 of 16253 Old 04-30-2012, 07:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arxaw View Post

I had an old model 7777 with me and swapped it out and got both available channels. It's quite possible her 7777 was defective, but don't know. (She sent it back for a refund). All I know is in this difficult reception situation, it didn't work, and I'm not recommending new CM preamps to anyone.

Sounds like it was defective. I did see a number of reports from people who had the new one and it was working for them. I noticed the new ones are more expensive.

Chuck
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post #14765 of 16253 Old 04-30-2012, 09:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calaveras View Post

Sounds like it was defective. I did see a number of reports from people who had the new one and it was working for them. I noticed the new ones are more expensive.

Chuck

I looked at the link to Summit for the old style, and then checked Amazon for the new ones, and found Amazon about $3-$4 cheaper, iirc...

You never know where the LIMIT is until you EXCEED it... Dianne B. "Let's try that again... without the oops." (Will Smith and Jeff Goldblum in "Independence Day")
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post #14766 of 16253 Old 04-30-2012, 06:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arxaw View Post

givmedew,
TVs sold in the last few years all have built in digital OTA tuners. How old is yours? You may not need a tuner.

For antenna suggestions, please post a link to your TVFool results for your specific address, or save the image of it and attach that to a post. Your address will not display.

I bought a Hitatchi Director series in 2009 got it for a steal at best buy because they where getting rid of them I bought the very last display 42" for $300 but they where out of stock of the add on unit that they normally packaged the thing with that had a tuner and source selector in it.

So what I am left with is truly a monitor in all senses. It has a single HDMI and VGA imput that is all so I do have to buy a tuner unfortunately.
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post #14767 of 16253 Old 04-30-2012, 06:55 PM
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Someone requested that I post the info from TV fool for recommendations on an antenna.


My results



I have windows somewhat face that direction they are about 45 degrees in the wrong direction or preferably I would like to mount it outside on my balcony attached to the iron railing this would allow me to point the antenna in the exact direction. Also since basically all the channels come from the same direction I really see no need to go with an omni if I mount it outside.

The most important thing is size and looks it must be small and look decent a huge pointy wire arrow structure isn't going to cut it. I have seen some antennas that look like small sattalite dishes.

I like this http://www.summitsource.com/digiwave...8-p-10106.html

I also like this
http://www.summitsource.com/antennac...le-p-6157.html


And finally this one http://www.summitsource.com/winegard...em-p-6572.html
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post #14768 of 16253 Old 04-30-2012, 07:05 PM
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As suggested, I am reposting this here from EV's thread.

I purchased and installed a Monoprice 4730 indoor/outdoor DHTV antenna.

After installing it about 3 feet above the TV upstairs, I found that the channels were frequently pixelating, freezing or going to no signal message.

With a friend, I tried the antenna out of doors (through a bedroom window) on the same floor and the reception was better but still inadequate.

I contacted Monoprice tech support who told me that their antennas are only for "green" and "yellow" channels. Since antennaweb tells me that my channels are red, blue and purple, if they are correct, I need a more "powerful" antenna.

I found this site and thread where people are kind enough to offer advice, so I am submitting my link to tvfool with a request for advice on a suitable antenna and placement.

My house is surrounded by trees which in all directions are higher than the roof (by more than 20 feet). The area is hilly, so I doubt that any transmitter is in direct line of sight.

My link is http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...7fcf99c735cd96.

Thanks is advance for any assistance/advice.

Steve
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post #14769 of 16253 Old 04-30-2012, 08:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by givmedew View Post

Someone requested that I post the info from TV fool for recommendations on an antenna.

My results

I have windows somewhat face that direction they are about 45 degrees in the wrong direction or preferably I would like to mount it outside on my balcony attached to the iron railing this would allow me to point the antenna in the exact direction. Also since basically all the channels come from the same direction I really see no need to go with an omni if I mount it outside.

The most important thing is size and looks it must be small and look decent a huge pointy wire arrow structure isn't going to cut it. I have seen some antennas that look like small satellite dishes.

I like this http://www.summitsource.com/digiwave...8-p-10106.html

I also like this
http://www.summitsource.com/antennac...le-p-6157.html

And finally this one http://www.summitsource.com/winegard...em-p-6572.html

You should NOT use any of those AMPLIFIED antenna....the very strong
signals will overload the system, possibly blocking reception on some
channels. Have you tried a simple non-amplified VHF-Rabbit-Ears+UHF-Loop????

Nearly any small, non-amplified antenna should do the job if mounted outdoors.

Many supposedly "UHF-only" antennas should be adequate to receive your
very strong VHF channels, but if you need more gain, a separate
Folded Dipole antenna (e.g. Rabbit-Ears without the Loop) could be added.

Winegard SS-1000 is non-amplified version of SS-2000 Square-Shooter.
Winegard also makes the non-amplified GS-1100 "Batwing", which should
be better for VHF at the expense of UHF performance.
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post #14770 of 16253 Old 05-01-2012, 05:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by givmedew View Post

Someone requested that I post the info from TV fool for recommendations on an antenna.


My results

No. No. No. No amplified antenna at your location. All you need is something like an ANT751 unamp'd antenna.
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post #14771 of 16253 Old 05-01-2012, 05:44 AM
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stevesr0,
Your TVFool URL is bad. Please repost it.
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post #14772 of 16253 Old 05-01-2012, 03:26 PM
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post #14773 of 16253 Old 05-01-2012, 11:33 PM
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I just picked this up at Lowe's for $6.54 while shopping for F-connectors. It's an Audiovox "RCA in-line F-connector for RG6 coax" DT60CFTR (i.e. an RG6 cable splice kit.) All you need is an ordinary pair of pliers to squeeze the locking, shield-piercing fingers to install the connector. You don't even need to strip the insulation from the cable ends, just a clean cut, and o-rings keep water out. Neat!!!

I've had numerous failures with a splice in my 215 ft outdoor RG6 cable using 2 male F-connectors and an inline barrel connector. I haven't installed the DT60CFTR yet, but this sure looks like the solution to my cable splicing problems! It's also available from numerous websites in addition to Lowe's.




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post #14774 of 16253 Old 05-02-2012, 04:14 AM
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I saw those at Lowe's the other day (didn't buy them though) and wondered how qell they might work... If you can give them a test run, I sure would be interested in how well they do. I am especially interested in how well the "O" rings hold up in hot conditions. Heat will make cheap "O" rings get hard and brittle and cause them to lose their sealing ability. They look nice though. I hope they are a good quality product and not some cheaply made Chinese crud.

You never know where the LIMIT is until you EXCEED it... Dianne B. "Let's try that again... without the oops." (Will Smith and Jeff Goldblum in "Independence Day")
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post #14775 of 16253 Old 05-02-2012, 04:23 AM
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It still might be a good idea to put a dab of dielectric grease in the connectors before screwing it together.
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post #14776 of 16253 Old 05-02-2012, 04:27 AM
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stevesr0,
On your TVFool report, all of the stations that list "LOS" are Line Of Sight from your address. For your major networks, a Winegard 7694P should work well, but if you cannot find a sweet spot to aim it, you may need a rotor, since the transmitters are not all in the same direction.
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post #14777 of 16253 Old 05-02-2012, 06:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arxaw View Post

It still might be a good idea to put a dab of dielectric grease in the connectors before screwing it together.

I absolutely agree. Di-electric grease is a must in my opinion for all outdoor coax connections...

You never know where the LIMIT is until you EXCEED it... Dianne B. "Let's try that again... without the oops." (Will Smith and Jeff Goldblum in "Independence Day")
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post #14778 of 16253 Old 05-02-2012, 07:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by holl_ands View Post

You should NOT use any of those AMPLIFIED antenna....the very strong
signals will overload the system, possibly blocking reception on some
channels. Have you tried a simple non-amplified VHF-Rabbit-Ears+UHF-Loop????

Nearly any small, non-amplified antenna should do the job if mounted outdoors.

Many supposedly "UHF-only" antennas should be adequate to receive your
very strong VHF channels, but if you need more gain, a separate
Folded Dipole antenna (e.g. Rabbit-Ears without the Loop) could be added.

Winegard SS-1000 is non-amplified version of SS-2000 Square-Shooter.
Winegard also makes the non-amplified GS-1100 "Batwing", which should
be better for VHF at the expense of UHF performance.

I think I really like the square shooter. It is rather expensive but the size is nice. Being that it isn't designed for VHF what am I really loosing? I see that Abc and CBS are both on UHF and VHF channels is there a difference between the UHF and VHF version? Also what are the channels below VHF considered? Will I have any problem picking up those?

I also saw THIS it is a trek indoor model that is VHF and UHF which would I be better off with. The building is brick which is why I was originally going for outdoor. I could aim this through the sliding glass door though but still not sure which would be better. The gs1100 batwing is to wide to put outside on my balcony.

Anyone know of any other small outdoor antenna's preferably less than 30" in any direction.
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post #14779 of 16253 Old 05-02-2012, 07:42 AM
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Also I am looking for ota tuner box as well and am having a very hard time finding one that only has what I need. I just want a tuner that handles the antenna and is capable of surround sound and HD. Mostly I am finding converter boxes that output to composite or rf or I am finding combo boxes that have qam and ota or I am finding PC related stuff.

Anyone have a good recommendation for an affordable (less than $100) box that is HD

I think this might be what I am looking for but am unsure http://www.summitsource.com/centroni...ufacturers_id=

But that isn't available anymore and links to one that is $120 and supports qam
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post #14780 of 16253 Old 05-02-2012, 07:47 AM
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Recommendations for "small" antennas are not often found on this board, mainly because no one wants to suggest something that may not work well.

And it's a crap shoot to see if they will work at all. Just buy from places that allow returns.

For an HD tuner/STB, see the STB synopsis thread here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=179095
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post #14781 of 16253 Old 05-02-2012, 08:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OTAhead View Post

I looked at the link to Summit for the old style, and then checked Amazon for the new ones, and found Amazon about $3-$4 cheaper, iirc...

Price for the old CM7777 at Solid Signal - $48.99
Price for new CM7777 at Amazon - $58.55
Price for old CM7777 at Summit Source - $63.70

Seems to me that Summit Source thinks they can get a premium price for the remaining stock of the old version. Maybe they can.

Chuck
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post #14782 of 16253 Old 05-02-2012, 09:12 AM
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Thanks for the shout-out. Much appreciated.

SS@SolidSignal
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post #14783 of 16253 Old 05-02-2012, 11:37 AM
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Is the old style 7777 still available at SS? The web site says "completely re-engineered and updated"....
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post #14784 of 16253 Old 05-02-2012, 12:07 PM
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Unfortunately not. But we're expecting some changes at Channel Master in the coming months.

SS@SolidSignal
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post #14785 of 16253 Old 05-02-2012, 02:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calaveras View Post

...Seems to me that Summit Source thinks they can get a premium price for the remaining stock of the old version. Maybe they can.

They can. At least if some eBay prices are any indication of demand for the old dual-input model.
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post #14786 of 16253 Old 05-02-2012, 04:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by givmedew View Post

I think I really like the square shooter. It is rather expensive but the size is nice. Being that it isn't designed for VHF what am I really loosing? I see that Abc and CBS are both on UHF and VHF channels is there a difference between the UHF and VHF version? Also what are the channels below VHF considered? Will I have any problem picking up those?

I also saw THIS it is a trek indoor model that is VHF and UHF which would I be better off with. The building is brick which is why I was originally going for outdoor. I could aim this through the sliding glass door though but still not sure which would be better. The gs1100 batwing is to wide to put outside on my balcony.

Anyone know of any other small outdoor antenna's preferably less than 30" in any direction.

Terk HDTV-LP (aka Winegard SS-3000) is not recommended, it's AMPLIFIED.

One of the best SMALL antennas is the 35"x35" RCA ANT-751, but it's a
"pointy wire arrow structure" that may be as difficult to mount as SS-1000 unless
you use a stand-along pole mount to avoid drilling into the balcony structure:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1234962

Since you have very strong signals, you might also consider the Winegard
FV-HD30 FreeVision antenna....although not very powerful, it is SMALL:
http://www.winegard.com/freevision/index.php

BTW: It is very difficult to PREDICT performance for apt. buildings due to
all of the METAL in the walls and floors...and possibility of blockage and
multipath reflections from surrounding buildings.....
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post #14787 of 16253 Old 05-02-2012, 04:31 PM
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Quote:


I have windows somewhat face that direction they are about 45 degrees in the wrong direction or preferably I would like to mount it outside on my balcony attached to the iron railing this would allow me to point the antenna in the exact direction. Also since basically all the channels come from the same direction I really see no need to go with an omni if I mount it outside.

The most important thing is size and looks it must be small and look decent a huge pointy wire arrow structure isn't going to cut it. I have seen some antennas that look like small sattalite dishes.

If you want to DIY, a simple GH0n here http://clients.teksavvy.com/~nickm/g..._5V9_10u0.html would do. Because your signals are so strong, the old model reflectorless GH with out NARODS would do it too.

You would want to keep any antenna away from a metal railing by about 4 inches. You could also get some plastic ivy to cover up the antenna by making it look like a trellis.
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post #14788 of 16253 Old 05-02-2012, 05:01 PM
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arxaw,

Thanks for recommendation.

I am open to roof install if that is necessary, but would prefer an attic installation for simplicity, ease of maintenance and cost.

The longer distance to tv from roof would likely necessitate a preamp or amplifier, as well as a mount, a rotor and [in my case] hiring an installer to do it for me.

I assume that use of a rotor would generally not work if I installed the antenna in my attic, because of limited attic space.

For an attic install, is there a multidirection UHF/VHF HD antenna that you would recommend?

Thanks for your assistance.

Steve
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post #14789 of 16253 Old 05-02-2012, 06:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calaveras View Post

Price for the old CM7777 at Solid Signal - $48.99
Price for new CM7777 at Amazon - $58.55
Price for old CM7777 at Summit Source - $63.70

Seems to me that Summit Source thinks they can get a premium price for the remaining stock of the old version. Maybe they can.

Chuck

Quote:
Originally Posted by arxaw View Post

Is the old style 7777 still available at SS? The web site says "completely re-engineered and updated"....

But since we're on the subject og the CM 7777, I have a question... I have very successfully installed the old style 7777 connected to a FM antenna to drive a Sangean HD radio reciever. Excellent results, and I am VERY HAPPY with the performance. What I did was separate the UHF from the VHF (reset the switch from "combined" to "separate"). Set the FM trap to "out" of course , and connected a short piece of coax to the UHF input port (about 4" long) with the rubber boot taped to the coax at the bottom, di-electric grease in the connector, and a small bead of silicone sealer smeared on the top of the boot to seal and isolate the UHF input side. I then dressed the VHF side in a similar fashion, but of course ran the coax on into the house connecting to the receiver.

My question is, if using the new style with no option to separate out all the UHF gain coming down the coax, will this have any effect on the FM reception? Or will there be no negative or minimal effect on the FM reception of either analog or digital signals?

I thank you for indulging me this question.

You never know where the LIMIT is until you EXCEED it... Dianne B. "Let's try that again... without the oops." (Will Smith and Jeff Goldblum in "Independence Day")
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post #14790 of 16253 Old 05-03-2012, 12:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OTAhead View Post

I saw those at Lowe's the other day (didn't buy them though) and wondered how qell they might work... If you can give them a test run, I sure would be interested in how well they do. I am especially interested in how well the "O" rings hold up in hot conditions. Heat will make cheap "O" rings get hard and brittle and cause them to lose their sealing ability. They look nice though. I hope they are a good quality product and not some cheaply made Chinese crud.

I installed the Audiovox DT60CFTR "RCA in-line F-connector for RG6 coax" splice kit in my 215 ft outdoor cable Wednesday. Installation was easy, but you should note the points on the fingers scrape the coax insulation, so you need to "twist" the connector a few turns to "screw" it onto the end of the cable. I doesn't just "slide" on (at least the first time you push it onto the cable end.) It is made in China, but it is a quality, precision machined product that feels very solid when in place.

After I installed the splice, I lost continuity and the antenna signal a couple of times during the first hour. You should check for good shield contact with the piercing finger points by tugging on the cable while viewing the signal when you install it. You can unscrew the caps and resqueeze the fingers with pliers if contact is intermittent. After I tugged on the cable at the connector, the problem appears to have gone away. I will tug on it more later today to make sure the contact is solid. Otherwise, it looks like this product will do the job very well. If I make future splices, the job should go much faster and without problems.
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