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post #16321 of 16347 Unread 02-05-2015, 06:34 PM
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Sorry to hear Radioshack has filed for bankruptcy and may be closing. Always a good source for antennas and electronic accessories. Including Antennacraft products. But when they dropped basic individual rabbit ears and the UHF bowtie a year or so ago, I knew things were not good. Because switching to cell phone and computer products would not effectively compete with Best Buy and Amazon. Sad to hear this news, but maybe some stores will be able to remain open. But I would think the high rent mall stores will likely close.
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post #16322 of 16347 Unread 02-06-2015, 08:54 AM
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Originally Posted by tylerSC View Post
Sorry to hear Radioshack has filed for bankruptcy and may be closing. Always a good source for antennas and electronic accessories. Including Antennacraft products. But when they dropped basic individual rabbit ears and the UHF bowtie a year or so ago, I knew things were not good. Because switching to cell phone and computer products would not effectively compete with Best Buy and Amazon. Sad to hear this news, but maybe some stores will be able to remain open. But I would think the high rent mall stores will likely close.
The store in the mall here is closing. I wish I had known sooner, because when I went, the good stuff was all gone. Major discounted prices too.
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post #16323 of 16347 Unread 02-09-2015, 10:01 AM
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I'm pretty sure I've discovered my problem with the "blipping" or dropouts. I went up on the roof the other day to replace all my crimped F connectors with compression connects. When I got to the coax on the ANT, I found that the lead going into the combined input of my RCA preamp was loose. Actually, I guess I may have over-tightened it during the initial installation. The input on the preamp is actually loose inside the preamp. I had the wife on the phone and started to ever so slightly wiggle that connection and she immediately said the TV was acting up. I guess I'm going to order a new preamp and also take apart the current one to see if a solder joint is broken or what not.
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post #16324 of 16347 Unread 04-03-2015, 08:53 AM
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http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...f1f06732415bd1

95% of the chans we want are at 251º. One chan is south at 188º
looking for some input on a new antenna purchase. I bought a small RCA which can't cut the low VHF chans in my area, 2, 4, and 5, which are the CBS, NBC and Fox flagships in the area.
7 and above are fine.
The signal is there, but low enough that the TV has difficulty locking it. 8yo Sharp.
I'd rather not put up a 10' behemoth if I can avoid it.
The antenna is on the roof, about 30' up and 125' plus above sea level. The area is fairly treed.
50' to the first TV, FM rcvr and possibly a Tablo unit. Then an additional 75' to the 2nd TV.
The Wineguard seems to list many discontinued products. The Antennacraft site has no pre-sales or other contact.
ChannelMaster looks to have plenty of info and contact, so I'm thinking them first.
Or Dennys, which seems to have his custom products made by Wineguard and he does respond to pre-sales.

Also, the matching transformer that came with the RCA was utter junk. Cheap #22 or less wire with cheap crimp terminal loops.
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post #16325 of 16347 Unread 04-03-2015, 12:36 PM
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I answered this thoroughly over at TVFool's forum. You need a LARGE, all channel antenna.

Tech support for Antennas Direct
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post #16326 of 16347 Unread 04-03-2015, 03:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fritz View Post
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...f1f06732415bd1

I bought a small RCA which can't cut the low VHF chans in my area, 2, 4, and 5, which are the CBS, NBC and Fox flagships in the area.

Channels 2, 4 and 5 are the virtual channel numbers. The real channels are all on UHF. Look at your TV Fool report under "Channels Real" for what is actually on 2, 3, 4 and 5.
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post #16327 of 16347 Unread 04-03-2015, 07:34 PM
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Look closer. He also has REAL channels 2, 4, & 5 on his report, all low power, low VHF stations from NYC. He needs to clarify what he wants by the station call letters instead of just throwing out channel numbers which have multiple meanings.
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post #16328 of 16347 Unread 04-04-2015, 07:36 AM
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Originally Posted by ProjectSHO89 View Post
Look closer. He also has REAL channels 2, 4, & 5 on his report, all low power, low VHF stations from NYC. He needs to clarify what he wants by the station call letters instead of just throwing out channel numbers which have multiple meanings.

I think you missed the part where he said 2, 4 and 5 are CBS, NBC and Fox which their virtual channels are, not low VHF. I did say he needs to look at TV Fool for the stations on real channels 2-5.
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post #16329 of 16347 Unread 04-04-2015, 07:41 AM
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Sure enough, I missed that....

Doh!
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post #16330 of 16347 Unread 04-05-2015, 06:35 AM
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I'm in Durham, NC, and I've started exploring the possibility of switching to OTA. Here's my tvfool report:
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...f1f0860089e630

I'm interested in the real channels 48, 49, 27, 17, and 11.

I've purchased an HD Frequency Cable Cutter antenna http://hdfrequency.com/best_indoor_hdtv_antennas.html and mounted it in my attic.
My house faces 133 degrees, so I simply screwed it to an upright truss beam as high as I could get it.
To test the antenna I used 50' of quad-shield RG6 from the antenna to a 4-port drop amp (7.5db per port gain), then 6' to the TV.
Reception was unacceptable on all channels, with many drop-outs. On the best channel the TV's so-called signal strength meter reported peaks of 88% but would regularly drop to 33%. I should mention it was a very windy day.

I have another single-port 15 db drop-amp, I was thinking of placing it as close to the antenna as possible.
Would a different antenna be a better approach?
Would a CM-4228HD (still in the attic) be overkill?
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post #16331 of 16347 Unread 04-05-2015, 07:15 AM
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Try the 4228, aimed at 139 degrees magnetic, directly to one TV. If the signals are still weak, add the drop amp near the antenna. The signal attenuation caused by the attic location is an unknown, so the 4228 might not be overkill.
Quote:
I should mention it was a very windy day.
That suggests trees in the signal path. Try different attic locations.

If you can not measure it, you can not improve it.
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www.megalithia.com/elect/aerialsite/dttpoorman.html
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post #16332 of 16347 Unread 04-05-2015, 08:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rabbit73 View Post
Try the 4228, aimed at 139 degrees magnetic, directly to one TV. If the signals are still weak, add the drop amp near the antenna. The signal attenuation caused by the attic location is an unknown, so the 4228 might not be overkill.
That suggests trees in the signal path. Try different attic locations.
I should clarify that the only antenna I currently have is the HD Frequency Cable Cutter. By "4228 (still in the attic)" I mean that if I purchase a 4228, I would still mount it in the attic. Would a different antenna be a better match?
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post #16333 of 16347 Unread 04-05-2015, 12:56 PM
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Oh, OK. Thanks for the clarification.

The 4228 is primarily for UHF, but CH 11 is VHF. If the 4228 doesn't pick up 11, even with the drop amp, then you will have to add a VHF antenna and combine it with the 4228 using a UVSJ

The alternative would be to buy a Winegard HD7697P or HD7698P VHF/UHF combo antenna. Assemble the phasing line wires with care.

You will probably need to unfold the antenna after putting it in the attic. Watch out for the sharp ends.

If you can not measure it, you can not improve it.
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Last edited by rabbit73; 04-05-2015 at 01:09 PM.
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post #16334 of 16347 Unread 04-05-2015, 01:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rabbit73 View Post
Oh, OK. Thanks for the clarification.

The 4228 is primarily for UHF, but CH 11 is VHF. If the 4228 doesn't pick up 11, even with the drop amp, then you will have to add a VHF antenna and combine it with the 4228 using a UVSJ.

The alternative would be to buy a Winegard VHF/UHF combo antenna.
A CD4228HD in an attic is like all other antennas in attics, iffy at best. You need a big hole to get one into an attic. I had good success with a UHF 4 bay Bow Tie on a rotor with a pre-amp until the metal roof was put on.

The last person who wanted to do this never posted success or failure. I was very worried that he had a metal roof like I do.

http://www.avsforum.com/photopost/sh...hp?cat=2165469

I get KGO VC 7 RF 7 and KNTV VC 11 RF 12 just fine. No joy on RF 2 or RF 3 (Very LOW POWER)

SHF

Last edited by SFischer1; 04-05-2015 at 01:44 PM.
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post #16335 of 16347 Unread 04-05-2015, 01:16 PM
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Quote:
CD4428HD
?

CM4228HD

Yes, the 4228 is big; the CM4221HD, or DB4e would be easier to put in the attic and has almost as much gain. It would need to be combined with a Y5-7-13 VHF antenna for CH 11 using a UVSJ.

A metal roof would certainly block the signals, as would aluminum foil heat barrier like Techshield, or aluminum siding.

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post #16336 of 16347 Unread 04-12-2015, 06:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SFischer1 View Post
A CD4228HD in an attic is like all other antennas in attics, iffy at best. You need a big hole to get one into an attic. I had good success with a UHF 4 bay Bow Tie on a rotor with a pre-amp until the metal roof was put on.

The last person who wanted to do this never posted success or failure. I was very worried that he had a metal roof like I do.

http://www.avsforum.com/photopost/sh...hp?cat=2165469

I get KGO VC 7 RF 7 and KNTV VC 11 RF 12 just fine. No joy on RF 2 or RF 3 (Very LOW POWER)

SHF
I hung the CM-4228HD on two nails, 24" apart. I used a compass app on my smart phone and found my house points "close enough" to the tower farm. I'm using ~40 feet of quad-shield RG6 from the antenna to a 4-port distribution amp, +7.5 per port. 6' of cable runs from the amp to the TV.

Channels 48, 49, 27, and 17 all come in above 95 on the TV's signal meter, with occasional dips to the low 90's. I watched 17 last night for about two hours and did not notice a drop-out.
Channel 11 is another story. The TV's signal meter gives it a 45, with regular dips (and drop-outs) into the 20's.
Channel 25 is 10 miles closer but at 256 degrees instead of 129. It also regularly drops out, but I expected that and it isn't a concern.

While I'm disappointed with the quality of channel 11, I'm happy with the performance of the CM-4228HD. I'll try it out for a few months and possibly add a VHF antenna and a UVSJ. I'll also mount the CM-4228HD better so I can aim it.
There was just no way I could get a Winegard HD7697P through the roof trusses.
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post #16337 of 16347 Unread 04-12-2015, 12:15 PM
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You may find that moving the antenna just a few inches will bring in WTVD just fine. I found this out with my Winegard HD 8800 UHF while trying to tune in the VHF channels WNCT 10 and WCTI 12 in the TV market just to your east. In tuning the UHF channels, I found I could just throw the antenna up any which way and they would come in real easy like you seemed to have done. I still get a blip every now and then on 10 and 12, and the only cure for that is like you said, with a VHF hi band antenna.
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post #16338 of 16347 Unread 04-12-2015, 01:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dundakitty View Post
Channels 48, 49, 27, and 17 all come in above 95 on the TV's signal meter, with occasional dips to the low 90's. I watched 17 last night for about two hours and did not notice a drop-out.
Channel 11 is another story. The TV's signal meter gives it a 45, with regular dips (and drop-outs) into the 20's.
Checking TVFool, the LOS for WTVD lines up with the I40 freeway. Reflections off the moving vehicles may be causing the dips and dropoffs you see on WTVD, this is called multipath interference. You can try tilting your antenna up but I don't think it will help. IMHO, if the reflections are the cause of your problems, there is no practical solution.
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post #16339 of 16347 Unread 04-12-2015, 07:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dundakitty View Post
I hung the CM-4228HD on two nails, 24" apart. I used a compass app on my smart phone and found my house points "close enough" to the tower farm. I'm using ~40 feet of quad-shield RG6 from the antenna to a 4-port distribution amp, +7.5 per port. 6' of cable runs from the amp to the TV.

Channels 48, 49, 27, and 17 all come in above 95 on the TV's signal meter, with occasional dips to the low 90's. I watched 17 last night for about two hours and did not notice a drop-out.
Channel 11 is another story. The TV's signal meter gives it a 45, with regular dips (and drop-outs) into the 20's.
Channel 25 is 10 miles closer but at 256 degrees instead of 129. It also regularly drops out, but I expected that and it isn't a concern.

While I'm disappointed with the quality of channel 11, I'm happy with the performance of the CM-4228HD. I'll try it out for a few months and possibly add a VHF antenna and a UVSJ. I'll also mount the CM-4228HD better so I can aim it.
There was just no way I could get a Winegard HD7697P through the roof trusses.
First try re-aiming the antenna. Then try with or without the distribution amp. Sometimes noisey amps are worse, but the Channel Masters are good. Or the Winegard LNA100. But you may need to add an FM trap before the amp. I used an FM trap to prevent dropouts on RF13, so FM interference could be a factor.
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post #16340 of 16347 Unread 04-12-2015, 07:40 PM
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CM-4228HD (like many other modern Antennas, e.g. 91XG, DB-4e, DB8e) use a PCB (Printed Circuit Board) type Balun where circuitous lines in the PCB form different length Transmission Lines (aka "Half-wave 4:1 Coax Balun"). Unfortunately, it is only low-loss over the UHF Band, and has significant Loss and high SWR in the VHF Band.

I developed the OPTIMIZED HHH (Holl_ands Horizontal Harness) for the CM4228HD (and old CM4228) in order to overcome well known design deficiencies in the original designs:
http://imageevent.com/holl_ands/mult...dshorizharness

Image #30 contains the detailed Dimensions of the HHH, which replaces the factory Horizontal Harness. Simply cut two (preferably Aluminum) wires to the requisite Length, bend the ends into a Hook to fit around the existing connection screws, make two bends per diagram and tweak to fit (routing of the ends isn't all that critical). If you REPLACE the PCB Balun (which is difficult to remove anyway) with a standard cylindrical 300:75-ohm Balun, the Hi-VHF performance of the CM4228HD can be restored to what the 4nec2 Simulation Results reveal (such as it is)....it MIGHT bring in Ch7-13...but only if your signals are strong enough to overcome Excessive SWR issues.

Of course, a separate Hi-VHF Antenna connected via a VHF/UHF Combiner is even better....

If you want to consider a simple, inexpensive DIY Project, try the fol. Hi-VHF Hourglass-Loop...you can start with a simple Bi-Directional (NO Reflector) version and if needed to reliably receive Ch8, you could upgrade to one of the versions with Reflector Rods:
http://imageevent.com/holl_ands/loop...fhourglassloop

Last edited by holl_ands; 04-12-2015 at 07:54 PM.
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post #16341 of 16347 Unread 04-13-2015, 02:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dundakitty View Post
I hung the CM-4228HD on two nails, 24" apart. I used a compass app on my smart phone and found my house points "close enough" to the tower farm. I'm using ~40 feet of quad-shield RG6 from the antenna to a 4-port distribution amp, +7.5 per port. 6' of cable runs from the amp to the TV.

Channels 48, 49, 27, and 17 all come in above 95 on the TV's signal meter, with occasional dips to the low 90's. I watched 17 last night for about two hours and did not notice a drop-out.
Channel 11 is another story. The TV's signal meter gives it a 45, with regular dips (and drop-outs) into the 20's.
Channel 25 is 10 miles closer but at 256 degrees instead of 129. It also regularly drops out, but I expected that and it isn't a concern.

While I'm disappointed with the quality of channel 11, I'm happy with the performance of the CM-4228HD. I'll try it out for a few months and possibly add a VHF antenna and a UVSJ. I'll also mount the CM-4228HD better so I can aim it.
There was just no way I could get a Winegard HD7697P through the roof trusses.
I mounted mine on a dowel rod, and the rod travels through a hole I drilled in the plaster ceiling so that I can adjust the angle in the living room. I found the ideal angle, and it worked perfectly until we replaced the siding on the front peak of the roof. Our contractor used foil faced insulation under the siding (required on the side of the house, but not on the front). Since then it has become more unpredictable requiring minor adjustments by the season, and Channel 2 inexplicable drops out out at random times regardless of the direction we face the antenna.
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post #16342 of 16347 Unread Yesterday, 05:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by holl_ands View Post
...
Of course, a separate Hi-VHF Antenna connected via a VHF/UHF Combiner is even better....

If you want to consider a simple, inexpensive DIY Project, try the fol. Hi-VHF Hourglass-Loop...you can start with a simple Bi-Directional (NO Reflector) version and if needed to reliably receive Ch8, you could upgrade to one of the versions with Reflector Rods:
http://imageevent.com/holl_ands/loop...fhourglassloop
I think I'll try the hourglass-loop with seven reflector rods. The project will have to wait a few months until I have time. I do dread assembling the antenna in the attic during the heat of the summer. There is just no way I can fit the assembled antenna through the attic access door. Any recommendations for a good balun and UVSJ?
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Need some help guys. I'm having trouble with 1 of the channels in my OTA lineup.

Here's my TVFool link:

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...f1f00a1282c857

Admittedly, it's been several years since I've messed with the rooftop antenna I have, so be gentle. I can get get pics later if needed.

My rooftop unit looks similar to this:



Right now I'm having trouble with channel 4.1, which is UHF 32 for me I believe? The other stations in the same transmitter array (2.1, 5.1, 9.1 and 11.1) all come in just fine.

I'm using a signal amplifier with a unit that plugs in to electrical inside my house, and a small device mounted on the mast of the antenna outside.

My amplified signal goes down one 20' piece of RG-6 cable to a 2-way splitter in the basement, where the split signal goes 10 feet to one TV, and 15' to the other. Neither TV can reliably tune channel 4.1.

I'm thinking of replacing the rooftop antenna, but are there steps I should be taking before I do that?
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Have you tried taking the amplifier out of the line. It may be overloading. From the signal report I would think you should be able to receive those stations without an amp. Is your antenna mounted on the roof or in the attic? Are there any trees or buildings in the direction of the TV transmitters?
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post #16345 of 16347 Unread Today, 11:01 AM
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Have you tried taking the amplifier out of the line. It may be overloading. From the signal report I would think you should be able to receive those stations without an amp. Is your antenna mounted on the roof or in the attic? Are there any trees or buildings in the direction of the TV transmitters?
Antenna is on the roof. I have one large maple tree in the line of sight, other than that I'm on the top of a hill so it's a pretty clear shot.

I'll try removing the amp from the equation and see how that works.

Looking up at the roof, I noticed that one of the tines at the rear of the antenna is not straight out, like the wind had blown it forward. Not sure if that's worth mentioning, but I'll make sure I put it back into the correct position when I climb up there tonight.
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post #16346 of 16347 Unread Today, 12:23 PM
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And the opposite: have you verified the amplifier is working? Where does the power supply link up to the RG6?

While overloading is a possibility, it should overload more than one channel. Conversely, you should lose more than one channel, too. This is odd.

Frank
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post #16347 of 16347 Unread Today, 01:27 PM
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Your signals probably are not strong enough to cause amplifier overload.

Most likely, it's the maple tree's fault. Move either the antenna or the tree and try again.
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