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post #16351 of 16372 Old 04-20-2015, 11:46 AM
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Yes, the 7698 would be harder to aim for a compromise azimuth.

What I had in mind was 1Edge an 2Edge and some known Roamio tuner problems.
http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=15025

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post #16352 of 16372 Old 04-20-2015, 12:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rabbit73 View Post
I suggest a Winegard HD7698P antenna and an Antennas Direct Juice, RCA TVPRAMP1R, or Channel Master 7778 preamp. The Juice, which is resistant overload, doesn't have an FM trap, so you need to add one because there are some strong FM signals that might interfere with CH 10.

Most of your main networks come from about 17 degrees magnetic, but Myn comes from 46 degrees.

The antenna coax should be grounded with a grounding block that is connected to the house electrical system ground with 10 gauge copper wire for electrical safety. For further compliance with the electrical code (NEC), the mast should also be grounded in a similar manner to drain any buildup of static charge, but the system will not survive a direct strike.
Noted, and was definitely planning on the grounding block. Thank you. Lightning is a huge problem, even with multiple UPS and decent grounding around the house we've lost a lot of equipment to lightning. I think the reason we get several channels so far is the main ranch house is on top of a hill an estimated 30-40 ft above everything to the north. We do have a mast outside on the north side of the house right now, I think it needs to be 20ft higher or moved to the west 50 ft to completely eliminate blockage from the trees that surround the house.

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Originally Posted by Calaveras View Post
I'm going to assume you're most interested in the 5 major network stations. I see that KWBM carries Fox even though TV Fool doesn't list it as so. Looking at your TV Fool report it is no surprise that an indoor antenna isn't working. But considering you're getting some stations you probably don't need the largest outdoor antenna. You also need to receive stations from 17 to 46 degrees. I also checked your FM Fool report and I see no stations that should give channel 10 a bad time.

All this considered I'd suggest the HBU33 antenna for a wider beamwidth and covers VHF/UHF. Point it at 32 degrees. I think the RCA TVPRAMP1R preamp would be good enough for you.

Edit: I see rabbit73 beat me to it by a few minutes. Normally I would have also recommended the HD7698P but I was concerned the beamwidth might be too narrow to split the difference between 17 and 46 degrees. I checked the models for that antenna and I see it's only down 2 dB at +/-15 degrees so it should be okay as long as it's pointed correctly.
This is a lot more involved than I initially thought, haha. Should have known, ive been setting up directional cellular boosters for years for work in remote places. The stations to the north are almost all Springfield Missouri stations, the ones to the west/southwest are Springdale/Fayetteville Arkansas stations. As it sits now they come in somewhat, most of the time.

Using google earth pro from the exact location of their antenna I looked at distances and headings:

348* 44 miles is to the KOLR 10 antenna at the very northern most part of springfield MO
294* 86 miles to Joplin MO
234* 66 miles to Fayetteville/Springdale AR
248* 58 miles to Rogers AR
158* 138 miles to Little Rock Arkansas
336* 185 miles to KC


Looking at that would it be possible to pick up Springfield, Rogers, Fayetteville and possible Joplin stations? (in a somewhat perfect world)
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post #16353 of 16372 Old 04-20-2015, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rabbit73 View Post
Yes, the 7698 would be harder to aim for a compromise azimuth.

What I had in mind was 1Edge an 2Edge and some known Roamio tuner problems.
http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=15025

I don't know what they're talking about. I have a TiVo Roamio and there are no tuner issues I've ever found. A station with an SNR about 16 dB shows 37 on the TiVo meter. I've run careful tests on the TiVo and its sensitivity is about 0.5 dB less than my Sony TV. This puts the noise figure close to 6 dB. I found it to be able to handle about 0.5 dB more multipath than the Sony before the signal drops out. The Sony tuner performance is almost identical to two other tuners I've had.

If someone is talking about the Roamio but really means the Premiere then that's another story. The Premiere is well known to have poor multipath performance.

The Roamio has an extensive diagnostic screen that reports all sorts of things except real signal strength. Too bad.
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post #16354 of 16372 Old 04-20-2015, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Calaveras View Post
I don't know what they're talking about. I have a TiVo Roamio and there are no tuner issues I've ever found. A station with an SNR about 16 dB shows 37 on the TiVo meter. I've run careful tests on the TiVo and its sensitivity is about 0.5 dB less than my Sony TV. This puts the noise figure close to 6 dB. I found it to be able to handle about 0.5 dB more multipath than the Sony before the signal drops out. The Sony tuner performance is almost identical to two other tuners I've had.

If someone is talking about the Roamio but really means the Premiere then that's another story. The Premiere is well known to have poor multipath performance.

The Roamio has an extensive diagnostic screen that reports all sorts of things except real signal strength. Too bad.
That is good to know. In this case I am definitely talking about a Roamio (basic), not Roamio OTA. I have a Roamio Pro at the house and thats what convinced me to buy them the basic for their OTA
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post #16355 of 16372 Old 04-20-2015, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alf Tanner View Post
This is a lot more involved than I initially thought, haha. Should have known, ive been setting up directional cellular boosters for years for work in remote places. The stations to the north are almost all Springfield Missouri stations, the ones to the west/southwest are Springdale/Fayetteville Arkansas stations. As it sits now they come in somewhat, most of the time.

Using google earth pro from the exact location of their antenna I looked at distances and headings:

348* 44 miles is to the KOLR 10 antenna at the very northern most part of springfield MO
294* 86 miles to Joplin MO
234* 66 miles to Fayetteville/Springdale AR
248* 58 miles to Rogers AR
158* 138 miles to Little Rock Arkansas
336* 185 miles to KC


Looking at that would it be possible to pick up Springfield, Rogers, Fayetteville and possible Joplin stations? (in a somewhat perfect world)

I'm not familiar with which stations are in which cities without looking them all up but any station with a negative noise margin in TV Fool is going to be very hard to receive. There's a lot of variance with 2 edge signals and sometimes weak signals can be received when it seems impossible. Sometimes the opposite is true. Unless you're on top of a hill with a clear view to the distant station, anything over about 70 miles is likely impossible without ducting help which of course is unreliable.

If want to try for the more distant stations you'll need a large high gain antenna on a rotor as high as possible. Most people aren't interested in going to all that trouble. See my link below for the kind of antennas you'll need for stations over 70 miles.
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post #16356 of 16372 Old 04-20-2015, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alf Tanner View Post
That is good to know. In this case I am definitely talking about a Roamio (basic), not Roamio OTA. I have a Roamio Pro at the house and thats what convinced me to buy them the basic for their OTA
I don't know what a Roamio OTA is but I have the Roamio Basic which I use exclusively for recording OTA.
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post #16357 of 16372 Old 04-20-2015, 01:51 PM
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I don't know what a Roamio OTA is but I have the Roamio Basic which I use exclusively for recording OTA.
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/tivo-roa...&skuId=8758098 this is the Roamio OTA
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post #16358 of 16372 Old 04-20-2015, 02:16 PM
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Looks like the same as mine but without cable capability.
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post #16359 of 16372 Old 04-20-2015, 05:37 PM
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There are now FOUR Roamio versions..."Roamio OTA" is OTA ONLY, plain 'ol "Roamio" is OTA & Cable and the other two are Cable ONLY...note that the "Premier" name has been relegated to History:
https://www.tivo.com/shop/roamio#/roamio
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post #16360 of 16372 Old 04-20-2015, 05:50 PM
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The TiVo Premiere can still be found on clearance at select Walmart locations. It is nice for offering 2 separate cable and antenna inputs, and nicely integrates the channel guide for both. The Roamio only has one selectable input to choose between antenna or cable, but the tuner is indeed improved, especially with multipath.
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post #16361 of 16372 Old 04-20-2015, 06:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alf Tanner View Post
I think the reason we get several channels so far is the main ranch house is on top of a hill an estimated 30-40 ft above everything to the north. We do have a mast outside on the north side of the house right now, I think it needs to be 20ft higher or moved to the west 50 ft to completely eliminate blockage from the trees that surround the house.
This is a lot more involved than I initially thought, haha. Should have known, ive been setting up directional cellular boosters for years for work in remote places. The stations to the north are almost all Springfield Missouri stations, the ones to the west/southwest are Springdale/Fayetteville Arkansas stations. As it sits now they come in somewhat, most of the time.
Using google earth pro from the exact location of their antenna I looked at distances and headings:
348* 44 miles is to the KOLR 10 antenna at the very northern most part of springfield MO
294* 86 miles to Joplin MO
234* 66 miles to Fayetteville/Springdale AR
248* 58 miles to Rogers AR
158* 138 miles to Little Rock Arkansas
336* 185 miles to KC
Looking at that would it be possible to pick up Springfield, Rogers, Fayetteville and possible Joplin stations? (in a somewhat perfect world)
"348* 44 miles is to the KOLR 10 antenna" doesn't seem to agree with your tvfool report.

Maybe you should redo your report using the interactive map feature of tvfool and move the teardrop cursor to the exact location of the antenna, and click on Make Radar Plot at the upper right corner of the map:
http://www.tvfool.com/index.php?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=90

In the somewhat perfect world you would need a 500 ft tower.



Using an estimate of your location this is what the report looks like at 500 ft:
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...f1f0f48b1ced9e

294* 86 miles to Joplin MO
KSNF 82.9 mi, 2Edge, NM -14.7 dB

234* 66 miles to Fayetteville/Springdale AR
KHOG 65.9 mi, 1Edge, NM 5.8 dB

158* 138 miles to Little Rock Arkansas
KARK 131.2 mi, Tropo, NM -18.8 dB

336* 185 miles to KC
Forget it, you are fighting rough terrain and the curvature of the earth which starts to cause problems at 70 mi.
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post #16362 of 16372 Old 04-21-2015, 04:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rabbit73 View Post
"348* 44 miles is to the KOLR 10 antenna" doesn't seem to agree with your tvfool report.

Maybe you should redo your report using the interactive map feature of tvfool and move the teardrop cursor to the exact location of the antenna, and click on Make Radar Plot at the upper right corner of the map:
http://www.tvfool.com/index.php?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=90

In the somewhat perfect world you would need a 500 ft tower.



Using an estimate of your location this is what the report looks like at 500 ft:
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...f1f0f48b1ced9e

294* 86 miles to Joplin MO
KSNF 82.9 mi, 2Edge, NM -14.7 dB

234* 66 miles to Fayetteville/Springdale AR
KHOG 65.9 mi, 1Edge, NM 5.8 dB

158* 138 miles to Little Rock Arkansas
KARK 131.2 mi, Tropo, NM -18.8 dB

336* 185 miles to KC
Forget it, you are fighting rough terrain and the curvature of the earth which starts to cause problems at 70 mi.
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...f1f0ff27b05922
Thank you for the response. I never thought KC stations would be a possibility, but it would be cooler if they were. I attached the link to show from the exact address, which may still be somewhat off because weve been fighting the post office for the last 60 years to get them to have our address listed. Currently still using a post office box as a result. Estimated height will be 30ft above the ground for antenna placement.
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post #16363 of 16372 Old 04-26-2015, 05:30 AM
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bad fitting!

I have a 75 run of coax from a CM4228HD with a CM-7777 amp that worked great for 4 1/2 years. In the middle of the winter the reception was sporadic and then finally quit. Well... the winter is finally gone and I went out to replace the amp which I had thought was the problem. nope. So I shorted the ends of the coax and tested for continuity and found a coupling outside and the fitting that is in the photo (see attached).

I assume that water got into the fitting or the coax shielding. The fitting was fully wrapped in good quality scotch 33 tape. I have replaced the fitting and the reception is back, possibly better than before, but it also has the new amp installed so it's not a direct comparision. I know that I should replace the entire run but I have too many other projects that need to be finished first.

I have read a couple of discussion about whether a black conductor that looks burned may be electrolysis, dis-similar metals, shorting, or just corrosion etc. If I wasn't using a powered mast mounted amp would this corrosion not have happened?

Also, how many of you are using dielectric grease, silicone grease or vaseline to fill any fittings?

thanks in advance,

j
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post #16364 of 16372 Old 04-26-2015, 06:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J_ph View Post
bad fitting!

I have a 75 run of coax from a CM4228HD with a CM-7777 amp that worked great for 4 1/2 years. In the middle of the winter the reception was sporadic and then finally quit. Well... the winter is finally gone and I went out to replace the amp which I had thought was the problem. nope. So I shorted the ends of the coax and tested for continuity and found a coupling outside and the fitting that is in the photo (see attached).

I assume that water got into the fitting or the coax shielding. The fitting was fully wrapped in good quality scotch 33 tape. I have replaced the fitting and the reception is back, possibly better than before, but it also has the new amp installed so it's not a direct comparision. I know that I should replace the entire run but I have too many other projects that need to be finished first.

I have read a couple of discussion about whether a black conductor that looks burned may be electrolysis, dis-similar metals, shorting, or just corrosion etc. If I wasn't using a powered mast mounted amp would this corrosion not have happened?

Also, how many of you are using dielectric grease, silicone grease or vaseline to fill any fittings?

thanks in advance,

j
What amp did you replace the CM-7777? And was it an old model version that was replaced?
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post #16365 of 16372 Old 04-26-2015, 07:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J_ph View Post
bad fitting!

I have a 75 run of coax from a CM4228HD with a CM-7777 amp that worked great for 4 1/2 years. In the middle of the winter the reception was sporadic and then finally quit. Well... the winter is finally gone and I went out to replace the amp which I had thought was the problem. nope. So I shorted the ends of the coax and tested for continuity and found a coupling outside and the fitting that is in the photo (see attached).

I assume that water got into the fitting or the coax shielding. The fitting was fully wrapped in good quality scotch 33 tape. I have replaced the fitting and the reception is back, possibly better than before, but it also has the new amp installed so it's not a direct comparision. I know that I should replace the entire run but I have too many other projects that need to be finished first.

I have read a couple of discussion about whether a black conductor that looks burned may be electrolysis, dis-similar metals, shorting, or just corrosion etc. If I wasn't using a powered mast mounted amp would this corrosion not have happened?

Also, how many of you are using dielectric grease, silicone grease or vaseline to fill any fittings?

thanks in advance,

j
I've never been able to keep water out of a connector by using tape and I don't use any greases. I use coax seal that can be molded around any connector. The best thing is to have connectors shielded by something to avoid direct exposure to rain or snow. This is why preamps have connectors underneath the housing to shield them from direct exposure. These connectors don't require any additional protection. The worst situation is to have a connector pointing up exposed to the elements. In that situation I use the end of a plastic soda bottle to shield the connector. That plastic is UV proof and RF transparent.
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post #16366 of 16372 Old 04-26-2015, 09:26 AM
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Hi Calaveras

I will look into the Coax Seal, but probably still use some sort of non conductive filler. My thought is that even if the seal is perfect over the fitting that there is a chance that water is getting in through another area of the coax shield and traveling to the fittings. And if water does leach in through the coax shield and the seal is tight over the fitting it just makes a better fish tank. I don't see any harm with using a grease to displace the water if it does get in. There are drip loops in this particular horizontal run, but it is still coming from somewhere.

thanks,

j

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post #16367 of 16372 Old 04-26-2015, 09:33 AM
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What amp did you replace the CM-7777? And was it an old model version that was replaced?
Hi Tyler,

Yes I replaced the old version with the new version. I read about the thoughts against the new version here but I thought I'd give it a try since there weren't that many alternatives. I spoke to the folks at CM and they were also helpful.

My location is less than optimum, and the antenna is pointed directly at a large stand of trees that I would never be able to reach over no matter how high I go. So, the antenna is mounted on the roof on a short-ish mount so that it's not very visible from the street. I live in the NJ and my only need is the standard channels: 2,4,5,7,9,11 and 13, but it pulls in much more than that, so I'm happy. I supplement the OTA programming with Netflix, Hulu and even trying out Sling too.

regards

j
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post #16368 of 16372 Old 04-26-2015, 11:29 AM
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Hi Calaveras

I will look into the Coax Seal, but probably still use some sort of non conductive filler. My thought is that even if the seal is perfect over the fitting that there is a chance that water is getting in through another area of the coax shield and traveling to the fittings. And if water does leach in through the coax shield and the seal is tight over the fitting it just makes a better fish tank. I don't see any harm with using a grease to displace the water if it does get in. There are drip loops in this particular horizontal run, but it is still coming from somewhere.

thanks,

j

Water has to be kept out of the coax completely. If water gets into the coax then it will not work correctly. Water in the coax changes the dielectric constant of the coax making the impedance change and the loss goes way up.
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post #16369 of 16372 Old 04-26-2015, 02:27 PM
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I do agree that water is bad.... I'm hoping that the water did get in at the location of the fitting, but just incase I'll put a little dielectric grease in too. I ordered a roll of Coax Seal with the dielectric grease. If it happens again, I'll need to climb up on the roof and replace the line, and regret that I didn't do it now

best regards

j
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post #16370 of 16372 Old 04-27-2015, 09:58 AM
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Apparently Antennacraft has ceased production at its manufacturing facility due to the Radioshack bankruptcy. So look for clearance deals from various vendors including Radioshack if interested before all their antenna products disappear. And it remains unclear if Radioshack will continue to sell TV antennas going forward, as it is now cobranded with Sprint in the remaining stores.
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post #16371 of 16372 Old 04-27-2015, 10:42 AM
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Holy conspiracy, Batman, Sprint won't want the broadcast TV industry to be sustained, because they want to be in on the spectrum auction when it fails!
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post #16372 of 16372 Old 04-28-2015, 04:40 AM
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Holy conspiracy, Batman, Sprint won't want the broadcast TV industry to be sustained, because they want to be in on the spectrum auction when it fails!

Nah, it's nothing like that (or as interesting).

Hedge firm Standard General, who had loaned Radio Shack most of its debt, also owns a Sprint sales affiliate, General Wireless. It boiled down to trying to save some of their investment instead of just liquidating everything. Sprint Corp was able to double their retail footprint in the process and hopefully avoid their own trip into oblivion. Besides, except for some 800 MHz spectrum brought in from the Nextel acquisition, all of Sprint's assets are in the PCS and higher bands. They're also sitting on 120 MHz of 2.5 GHz spectrum from the Clearwire acquisition that they haven't figured out what to do with. Sprint didn't even bother to buy in this January's AWS-3 auction.

Antennacraft was about as visible as a small pimple on an elephant's backside in the whole scheme of things.

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