The Official AVS Antenna and Related Hardware Topic! - Page 551 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #16501 of 16523 Old 08-17-2016, 07:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bernieoc View Post
I notice that the Wineguard 7694 only show stats for VHF CH 7 and higher - my PBS station is CH 3 - is that just too low VHS for this antenna?
Do I need my HUGE CH 3 only antenna and a combiner that I use with a UHF antenna combiner?
I get CH 3 but it is sensitive to interference and weather.

RF 3 or virtual 3? We have no idea. Please post your TV Fool report and start a new thread.
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post #16502 of 16523 Old 08-17-2016, 07:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Wpsatisfide View Post
New to ota tv besides rabbit years 30 years ago. I built a bowtie antenna which worked well for me at my house in myrtle beach so I built my mom one. It worked ok but she wants better and you have to keep momma happy.

Looking for some help with an antenna recommendations and which direction I should point it. Her house is one story but I'm guessing the top of her roof is probably 25 to 30 ft tall.

She would be running about 5 tvs also. Any and all help is appreciated.

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...e2cbbcdc164584

This should be a new thread since it's about a specific reception situation. This thread is for generic antenna discussion. Follow the sticky above.
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post #16503 of 16523 Old 08-18-2016, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wpsatisfide View Post
New to ota tv besides rabbit years 30 years ago. I built a bowtie antenna...
Then the DIY antenna thread may be of interest, too.
How to build a UHF antenna...

DO NOT build the one in the first link. I'm still using the 4-bay bowtie shown starting at the bottom of page 1, but there is a huge amount of information here, so don't stop there!

HAve fun,
Frank
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post #16504 of 16523 Old 08-19-2016, 07:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bernieoc View Post
I notice that the Wineguard 7694 only show stats for VHF CH 7 and higher - my PBS station is CH 3 - is that just too low VHS for this antenna?
Do I need my HUGE CH 3 only antenna and a combiner that I use with a UHF antenna combiner?
I get CH 3 but it is sensitive to interference and weather.
W-G HD-769x Series are Hi-VHF+UHF Combo's with minimal Gain in Lo-VHF (Ch2-6+FM) Band.
W-G HD-8200 (and HD-7084) are their ALL BAND Combos (Ch2-69). Solid Signal also offers a Clone of the HD-8200.

Earlier post seems to say you live in/near Lynchburg, within the Roanoke DMA.
Roanoke DMA Report shows THREE Stations in Lo-VHF Band on REAL Ch3 (PBS), Ch4 [CBS, Duplicate to UHF Ch18 & Ch19] and Ch5 [ABC, Duplicate to Hi-VHF Ch13] You SHOULD already be receiving Ch18 (or Ch19) and Ch13 and wouldn't NEED Ch4 and Ch5 [can you confirm???]:
http://www.rabbitears.info/market.ph...n=wbra#station

Although NOT shown in the above Roanoke DMA Report [I'm looking at TVFool for downtown Zipcode], there is a PBS Station on Ch11 (WVPT) that you MAY be receiving if you have a Hi-VHF Antenna with significant amount of Gain....can you confirm??? Would this fulfill your requirement for PBS if you can receive it??? Or are they broadcasting significantly DIFFERENT schedules and you would prefer to receive BOTH???

YES, you would need a HUGE Antenna for PBS on Ch3.....but before we can recommend a suitable Antenna(s), we first need to see a link to your TVFool Report [WebAddress URL at top of Browser after enter Location].

What is your current Antenna(s) situation???? Indoor vs Outdoor??? Would a ROTATOR be acceptable or are you looking for a (probably) multiple Antenna solution???

It also helps if you provide FMFool Report for your Location to check on second Harmonic Interference to Ch11 and Ch13 in Hi-VHF Band.
[In Firefox: Rt-Click "View Background Image" and then Copy/Paste URL at top of Web Browser.]
[In IE: PRINT SCREEN then use MSPAINT (etc) to crop and convert to compressed *.jpg File for uplink to User's Image Library and then cite Image URL in Post.]

Last edited by holl_ands; 08-19-2016 at 08:11 AM.
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post #16505 of 16523 Unread 09-13-2016, 12:22 PM
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Return of the JOINtenna?

I received email from ChannelMaster today regarding a good old name -- "JOINtenna" -- for combining antenna inputs. (See http://www.channelmaster.com/JOINtenna_p/cm-0500.htm). But as I read through the information, I couldn't see that it was anything but a combiner. Does someone know: Is there anything in there that would cut out channel interference? Or is this just a combiner, likely to have interference problems?

[I have an old-style JOINtenna that passes through Channel 49 and not much else; provides the perfect solution for my situation, where WHSV-TV 3.x is badly off axis but everything else is nicely lined up.]
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post #16506 of 16523 Unread 09-13-2016, 12:42 PM
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Uh-Oh, CM did it again. They used an old name for a new product that doesn't do the same thing, like the CM7777.

It appears to be a combiner, like a splitter in reverse, with an LTE filer added.

The original Jointenna was channel specific.

So, now we will have to say "sometimes it will work and sometimes not; you just have to try it."


Thanks for the tip.

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post #16507 of 16523 Unread 09-13-2016, 01:28 PM
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Channel Master should use different names for their newer products to avoid confusion with the old versions which may not be the same. It seems like the new Jointenna may be a combiner but does not block or isolate any signals like the original version. So combining antennas may still cause problems unless this combiner magically isolates out of phase signals or distortions.
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post #16508 of 16523 Unread 09-14-2016, 04:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tylerSC View Post
Channel Master should use different names for their newer products to avoid confusion with the old versions which may not be the same. It seems like the new Jointenna may be a combiner but does not block or isolate any signals like the original version. So combining antennas may still cause problems unless this combiner magically isolates out of phase signals or distortions.
What are the odds that Channel Master (1) discovered a little electronic thingie that would isolate those problems and (2) placed it into the sub-$40 new JOINtenna?

Just askin'.
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post #16509 of 16523 Unread 09-14-2016, 06:04 AM
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The odds of that would be zero. A $4 splitter will do the same thing (except for the LTE part).
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post #16510 of 16523 Unread 09-14-2016, 10:59 AM
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I agree....See my comments re C-M JOINTENNA w LTE FILTER in the JoinTenna thread:
The great jointenna exchange
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post #16511 of 16523 Unread 09-22-2016, 04:39 PM
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Hi everyone, i have never really used anything other than rabbit ears and im moving to a new home and desisted to get rid of cable TV. I want to put an antenna in the attic and was wondering if anyone could give me some advice on what to get.

Here is my TV Fool:
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...e2cb8abce39591

Mainly i have been looking at these two would they work for me?

Xtreme Signal HDB8X-NI 8-Bay VHF/UHF

Channel Master CM-4228HD


Or are there any other antennas that will work. Im looking for a passive antenna, so that if need be I can add a pre-amp to it.

SORRY!!!!
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post #16512 of 16523 Unread 09-22-2016, 07:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poopboypat View Post
Hi everyone, i have never really used anything other than rabbit ears and im moving to a new home and desisted to get rid of cable TV. I want to put an antenna in the attic and was wondering if anyone could give me some advice on what to get.

Here is my TV Fool:
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...e2cb8abce39591

Mainly i have been looking at these two would they work for me?

Xtreme Signal HDB8X-NI 8-Bay VHF/UHF

Channel Master CM-4228HD


Or are there any other antennas that will work. Im looking for a passive antenna, so that if need be I can add a pre-amp to it.

You may want an attic antenna but your TV Fool report is saying "Outdoor antenna." All your stations are 1 or 2 edge which means an outdoor antenna is most likely needed. You also need a real VHF antenna (which the HDB8X is not) for the same reason. The Noise Margins are not that bad so a Winegard HD7698P on the roof should work fine as long as it's not looking into trees or buildings. I'm assuming you're most interested in those stations centered around 317 degrees.
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post #16513 of 16523 Unread 09-22-2016, 07:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Calaveras View Post
You may want an attic antenna but your TV Fool report is saying "Outdoor antenna." All your stations are 1 or 2 edge which means an outdoor antenna is most likely needed. You also need a real VHF antenna (which the HDB8X is not) for the same reason. The Noise Margins are not that bad so a Winegard HD7698P on the roof should work fine as long as it's not looking into trees or buildings. I'm assuming you're most interested in those stations centered around 317 degrees.
Well i guess I wont be getting an antenna then.. We will be in an area with an HOA, and its not worth the permits. Is there really no antena that I can use in the attic. Even if its just UHF, majority of the channels are UHF.

SORRY!!!!
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post #16514 of 16523 Unread 09-23-2016, 06:02 AM
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Not sure if this query belongs in this thread but it seems likely.

I've been tossing an idea around in my head about relocating the TV antenna to the upright silo on the farmstead I live on. Advantage is that I would relocate the antenna away from my main amateur radio tower. The disadvantage is that the silo is about 100 yards away from the house and there are three driveways where tractors and other equipment travel so a cable run would need to be high enough to allow them to pass underneath. Fortunately, there are poles in place with AC triplex service that are a direct run from the silo to the backside of the house.

The first option would be 75 ohm cable with a messenger cable attached. As I see it this would likely require a preamp at the antenna so I would need to run power up the silo, no big deal, actually.

A second option might be fiber optic cable with a messenger and associated conversion equipment at each end.

Both of these options require that the cable be placed for adequate ground clearance which may be questionable over the main driveway. The first option would likely be the most straightforward and probably the cheapest as no media conversion is required. Option 1 may have the disadvantage of being located very closely to the AC triplex.

A third option would be wireless. If no off the shelf item exists, I could envision a DIY that would use a Raspberry Pi or some such running MythTV for a remote tuner. The disadvantage with this setup would be only being able to watch one channel at a time on all TVs connected to the system. The ideal system would be some wireless method that upconverts the TV spectrum to a license-free band and then downconverts it at the other end so the whole system mimics a 75 ohm cable run and each TV could be tuned to whatever channel simultaneously. I'm asking as I don't know that such a set of devices exist for home use over a span of about 100 yards or so.

Any of the options would require running power up the silo to the antenna which, as previously noted, is quite doable. I just want to avoid having to procure and hang commercial grade cable if possible. A wireless option would seem to be best as the cable issues such as clearance, grounding differences between the silo and house, and lightning protection are avoided.

Thanks!

aka N0NB
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post #16515 of 16523 Unread 09-23-2016, 06:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poopboypat View Post
Well i guess I wont be getting an antenna then.. We will be in an area with an HOA, and its not worth the permits. Is there really no antena that I can use in the attic. Even if its just UHF, majority of the channels are UHF.
The signal loss in the attic is difficult to predict. Why don't you try a temporary setup in the attic before drilling any holes to see what you can get.


You don't need a permit. The FCC say you CAN have an outdoor antenna in spite of the HOA.
https://www.fcc.gov/media/over-air-r...n-devices-rule

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post #16516 of 16523 Unread 09-23-2016, 07:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Nate_KS View Post
The first option would be 75 ohm cable with a messenger cable attached. As I see it this would likely require a preamp at the antenna so I would need to run power up the silo, no big deal, actually.
The DC power for the preamp can go up the same coax as used for the signals coming down. This is normal for a preamp. The power inserter would be located inside. You know the power inserter as a "Bias-T" in ham lingo.

http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=820

http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=1286
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post #16517 of 16523 Unread 09-23-2016, 07:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poopboypat View Post
Well i guess I wont be getting an antenna then.. We will be in an area with an HOA, and its not worth the permits. Is there really no antena that I can use in the attic. Even if its just UHF, majority of the channels are UHF.

If you own the roof then the HOA has no jurisdiction over this. You can put up any antenna you need to receive your local stations with a few limitations. These HOA rules have been preempted by the FCC. See this FCC fact sheet:

https://www.fcc.gov/consumers/guides...tellite-dishes

No permits are required. If the HOA gives you grief then direct them to this document.
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post #16518 of 16523 Unread 09-23-2016, 07:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nate_KS View Post
Not sure if this query belongs in this thread but it seems likely.

I've been tossing an idea around in my head about relocating the TV antenna to the upright silo on the farmstead I live on. Advantage is that I would relocate the antenna away from my main amateur radio tower. The disadvantage is that the silo is about 100 yards away from the house and there are three driveways where tractors and other equipment travel so a cable run would need to be high enough to allow them to pass underneath. Fortunately, there are poles in place with AC triplex service that are a direct run from the silo to the backside of the house.

The first option would be 75 ohm cable with a messenger cable attached. As I see it this would likely require a preamp at the antenna so I would need to run power up the silo, no big deal, actually.

A second option might be fiber optic cable with a messenger and associated conversion equipment at each end.

Both of these options require that the cable be placed for adequate ground clearance which may be questionable over the main driveway. The first option would likely be the most straightforward and probably the cheapest as no media conversion is required. Option 1 may have the disadvantage of being located very closely to the AC triplex.

A third option would be wireless. If no off the shelf item exists, I could envision a DIY that would use a Raspberry Pi or some such running MythTV for a remote tuner. The disadvantage with this setup would be only being able to watch one channel at a time on all TVs connected to the system. The ideal system would be some wireless method that upconverts the TV spectrum to a license-free band and then downconverts it at the other end so the whole system mimics a 75 ohm cable run and each TV could be tuned to whatever channel simultaneously. I'm asking as I don't know that such a set of devices exist for home use over a span of about 100 yards or so.

Any of the options would require running power up the silo to the antenna which, as previously noted, is quite doable. I just want to avoid having to procure and hang commercial grade cable if possible. A wireless option would seem to be best as the cable issues such as clearance, grounding differences between the silo and house, and lightning protection are avoided.

Thanks!

You really ought to start a separate thread for this with you location in the title and a link to your TV Fool report as required in the sticky above. My ham towers are over 400' from my house and I have 575' of coax running to the TV antennas. 430' of it is surplus cable TV 1/2" hardline. You may be able to get away with RG-11 but we need to see your TV Fool report.

AA6G
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post #16519 of 16523 Unread 09-23-2016, 11:32 AM
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Unfortunately "specs" (such as they are) for CM LTE Filter are even LESS REVEALING than "specs" for CM7777HD Amplify Preamp....they simply state that it will "Pass" 5-699 MHz and will "Block" 700-2000 MHz [presumably a "Perfect" Filter with "only" a 1 Hz Transition Region...totally impossible], so we have NO CLUE as to HOW MUCH Attenuation is provided on the important Cell Tower Transmit Frequencies:
http://downloads.channelmaster.com/S...spec+sheet.pdf
http://downloads.channelmaster.com/S...tion+Sheet.pdf

BTW it is NOT POSSIBLE to build a tiny little Filter that will have any sort of effectiveness against [mostly AT&T] Cell Phone Transmissions in 704-716 MHz Band, although it is realistic to expect significant Attenuation of the two [typ. AT&T + Verizon] Cell Tower Transmission Bands from 734-758 MHz. As shown in fol. posts, REAL Filters will have a fairly significant TRANSITION REGION from fairly low Loss on 698 MHz [RS has 4.35 dB Loss] to high Loss beginning on 734 MHz:
http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/81-o...ml#post1388395
http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/81-o...ml#post2587202
Charles Rhodes (TV Technology Magazine) measured Frequency Response of CM Stand-Alone LTE Filter. It provides about 50+ dB Insertion Loss against ATT+Verizon Cell Towers [734-758 MHz]....but there is significant LOSS on Upper UHF Frequencies....so Do NOT use one unless you NEED IT:
http://www.tvtechnology.com/resource...reality/279393
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post #16520 of 16523 Unread 09-23-2016, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Calaveras View Post
You really ought to start a separate thread for this with you location in the title and a link to your TV Fool report as required in the sticky above. My ham towers are over 400' from my house and I have 575' of coax running to the TV antennas. 430' of it is surplus cable TV 1/2" hardline. You may be able to get away with RG-11 but we need to see your TV Fool report.

AA6G
Separate thread started.

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post #16521 of 16523 Unread 09-23-2016, 12:26 PM
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That's good, but our previous answers are still here. If the moderator doesn't move them we will have to repeat them or switch back and forth between threads.

If you can not measure it, you can not improve it.
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post #16522 of 16523 Unread 09-23-2016, 02:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by holl_ands View Post
Charles Rhodes (TV Technology Magazine) measured Frequency Response of CM Stand-Alone LTE Filter. It provides about 50+ dB Insertion Loss against ATT+Verizon Cell Towers [734-758 MHz]....but there is significant LOSS on Upper UHF Frequencies....so Do NOT use one unless you NEED IT:
http://www.tvtechnology.com/resource...reality/279393

The reviews of the new CM-7777 Amplify on their website have generally been favorable. And it reportedly has a built in LTE filter. And nice adjustable gain of either 17db or 30 db. But not sure about the noise figure or overload tolerance, and a bit pricey. Not much discussion here, and would be nice if they would use a different model number to avoid confusion with previous products.
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Originally Posted by tylerSC View Post
The reviews of the new CM-7777 Amplify on their website have generally been favorable. And it reportedly has a built in LTE filter. And nice adjustable gain of either 17db or 30 db. But not sure about the noise figure or overload tolerance, and a bit pricey. Not much discussion here, and would be nice if they would use a different model number to avoid confusion with previous products.
The new CM-7777 Amplify is now sold out. Meanwhile some of their distribution amps are now on sale.
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