The Official AVS Antenna and Related Hardware Topic! - Page 552 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews

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post #16531 of 16550 Unread 11-28-2016, 02:09 PM
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The amp in that antenna (FL-55YR) cannot be removed or separated, it's integrated into the balun and coax cable connection housing.

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post #16532 of 16550 Unread 11-28-2016, 02:26 PM
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YES, RCA ANT-751 would be a good, inexpensive choice for a Hi-VHF/UHF Combo Antenna. I modeled Hi-VHF section, which provides about 5.8 to 7.6 dBi Gain. UHF section is SAME as old W-G HD7000 VHF/UHF Combo [Ch2 and up], providing about 5.8 to 8.3 dBi Gain in UHF Band....both with Good SWR.

We did an approximate 4nec2 Model for the W-B FL-55YR Flatwave Antenna....only 3-4 dBi Gain and Good SWR in UHF....and 2.5-2.8 dBi Gain and Excessive SWR [GT 20] in Hi-VHF Band....and Gain didn't go negative until Ch2/3....so NOT any better than UHF-Loop/VHF-Rabbit Ears....

A-D DB-4e 4-Bay Bowtie has more Gain than A-D CS-4 on upper UHF Channels [although with narrower Beamwidth]....and you can add A-D VHF Dipole Kit:
https://www.antennasdirect.com/cmss_...s/DB4E-TDS.pdf [11.7 - 14.3 dBi in UHF Band]
https://www.antennasdirect.com/cmss_...-sellsheet.pdf [11.5 - 12.25 dBi in UHF Band]

And Commercial 4-Bays from other sources (e.g. Solid Signal HDB-4X, CM4221HD, et. al.) can be purchased for a LOT LESS....
And small Commercial 2-Bays are only $25-30 with 3 dB less Gain (e.g. Solid Signal Extreme and Eagle Aspen):
http://www.solidsignal.com/search.as...wtie%20antenna
IF needed, A-D VHF Antenna Kit could be added....or if you are handy, hack the antenna to replace PCB Balun with the usual Cylindrical Transformer Balun to restore the Hi-VHF performance inherent in a typical 2-Bay Antenna, such as M2 with Grid Reflector [Item a]:
http://imageevent.com/holl_ands/multibay/2bayrefl

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post #16533 of 16550 Unread 11-28-2016, 06:39 PM
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My local Walmart has both the RCA ANT 7511 and the have the smaller 751R antenna
Which one is better for my situation ??
Just to reiterate the front of my house points north no matter where I plant the antenna theirs going to be some kind of trees blocking signal path
The TV sits in the room behind the windows on the right
The simplest thing for me to do is drill a hole through the wall on the right side of the picture everything i need including a ground is already right out there on that side of the house
The house is to tall for me to make it all the way up and to steep last time I tried to clime up there I almost slid off
I already have a 30ft ladder sitting there on that side of the house that will get me about 3 forth the way up
Since mounting all the way up above the roof isn't going to get me above the trees will going higher buy me better signal ?
To mount on or above the roof I'd have to hire someone don't really want to do all that
I'd much prefer to mount myself in a place i can get to to manage and make any needed adjustments
So if I mount 3/4 up on the right side off the fascia boards what would be best place to mount back or front and which way to point?
The house next door is like right up against me like 15ft away and about the same height will be blocking on my west
I really don't have any experience with antenna but the TV Fool scan shows towers split north and south woulds i want some kind of multi directional antenna
Just scanner in the FL-55YR again getting 59 channels not bad I've gone through half a dozen different indoor antennas and none get as many channel as this cheap little antenna
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post #16534 of 16550 Unread 11-28-2016, 07:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kram1 View Post
...
So if I mount 3/4 up on the right side off the fascia boards what would be best place to mount back or front and which way to point?
The house next door is like right up against me like 15ft away and about the same height will be blocking on my west
I really don't have any experience with antenna but the TV Fool scan shows towers split north and south woulds i want some kind of multi directional antenna
...
Someone in San Jose tried to put an antenna between two buildings almost at ground level, I was very shocked when I saw a picture of what he was trying. He kept reporting problems that were not able to be overcome.

If you are serious for OTA then hire someone to put an antenna on the top of your roof.

I cannot get the TVFool map up because the site is down. Perhaps Chuck will reply. To me South is the direction to aim for. The ones to the North appear to be dups. YMMV

I leave antenna selection to him, I am old school and am not versed in the new (To me useless) antennas.

SHF
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post #16535 of 16550 Unread 11-28-2016, 08:32 PM
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I'm not Chuck but if it was me, I'd go with:
https://www.amazon.com/Channel-Maste.../dp/B000FVVKQM

Notice the 2 reflectors (wire grids behind the ><). Other 8 bay versions have 4 reflectors.

And I would put it in the attic with the >< facing the south (actually about 170 deg magnetic). You can hang it on a short pole or broom stick from a rafter.

In the attic means no grounding is necessary. And it will be higher than the antenna in your room. If that doesn't work, I'd mount it on the eave in the back or up on the roof.

I have an older version of this antenna and get channels 14 - 25 miles away and it is in my attic. I also get channel 5 with it (which is low vhf). You may not get channel 4 due to frequency and distance but you should get 6 & 7.
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post #16536 of 16550 Unread 11-28-2016, 09:07 PM
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Originally Posted by hdtvluvr View Post
I'm not Chuck but if it was me, I'd go with:
https://www.amazon.com/Channel-Maste.../dp/B000FVVKQM

Notice the 2 reflectors (wire grids behind the ><). Other 8 bay versions have 4 reflectors.
Gee that's looks familiar.

http://www.avsforum.com/photopost/sh...hp?cat=2165469

Quote:
And I would put it in the attic with the >< facing the south (actually about 170 deg magnetic). You can hang it on a short pole or broom stick from a rafter.
I used string for my VHF Hi-Lo in my Attic which is now useless as it is under a metal Roof. The 4 Bay Bow Tie was on a rotor. Attic access may prevent the CM4228HD from being used. Measure entry carefully.

Quote:
In the attic means no grounding is necessary. And it will be higher than the antenna in your room. If that doesn't work, I'd mount it on the eave in the back or up on the roof.
My doctor could not get his to work in his attic. I learned long ago that an attic is not as good as outdoors, when I learned that the partial faraday cage was coming it was a race to get approval for my dream CM4228HD and drove ~ 330 miles to get mine (Fry's was sold out in the SF Bay Area.)


Indoor and Attic antennas are problematic, not to be recommended to anyone. IMHO
Quote:
I have an older version of this antenna and get channels 14 - 25 miles away and it is in my attic. I also get channel 5 with it (which is low vhf). You may not get channel 4 due to frequency and distance but you should get 6 & 7.
I get RF 7 and RF 12 just fine. But when the OTA Repack occurs who knows what will be necessary. (They are now on round 44 but may not be done until next year.)
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post #16537 of 16550 Unread 11-29-2016, 05:55 AM
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Indoor and Attic antennas are problematic, not to be recommended to anyone. IMHO
I agree not ideal but if he can't get it on the roof without hired help, it's worth a try. Most of the stations were within 20 miles if I remember correctly. If it doesn't work he could go outside on an eave in the back like in your photos. It should be low enough that he can do it without help.

I think the antenna would be a good choice.

I agree that measurements should be taken precisely as to see if it can get through the opening and also stand up in the attic.

Mine is sitting on the joists and is leaned against the rafters so no hanging was necessary.
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post #16538 of 16550 Unread 11-29-2016, 12:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ADTech View Post
The amp in that antenna (FL-55YR) cannot be removed or separated, it's integrated into the balun and coax cable connection housing.
Thanks for clarifying. I did not remember that. I believe the similar Moho Leaf antenna has the removeable amp.
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post #16539 of 16550 Unread 11-29-2016, 10:31 PM
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Anyone know the difference between the RCA ANT 7511 and the smaller 751R antenna both selling for same price at Walmart $54 Wondering is there any significant difference between them which one would be best for me
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They're probably the same antenna, Walmart often has specific packaging requirements that force manufacturers to have a Walmart-exclusive model number or SKU. A google search of "RCA ANT7511" comes up pretty empty for anything that is specifically for that model number.

Pretty flagrant violation of advertising ethics (is there such a thing for antennas?) of RCA to slap marking on the box for "70+ Miles" and "Receives 4K Broadcasts" (they don't exist yet) on this little suburban antenna, IMHO.

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post #16541 of 16550 Unread Yesterday, 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by ProjectSHO89 View Post
They're probably the same antenna, Walmart often has specific packaging requirements that force manufacturers to have a Walmart-exclusive model number or SKU. A google search of "RCA ANT7511" comes up pretty empty for anything that is specifically for that model number.

Pretty flagrant violation of advertising ethics (is there such a thing for antennas?) of RCA to slap marking on the box for "70+ Miles" and "Receives 4K Broadcasts" (they don't exist yet) on this little suburban antenna, IMHO.

Definitely both not the same antennas you can see in the picture below the RCA ANT7511 is the bigger and the RCA ANT751R is smaller
Both claim 70 channels pretty much everything else is the same on the label except the smaller ones label says revision 2016 and the bigger one says 2013 making me think maybe the smaller one is a newer version of the antenna also the smaller one says out performs most bigger antennas?
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post #16542 of 16550 Unread Yesterday, 11:51 AM
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Just because the box is bigger doesn't mean the antenna is bigger. The newer version could have a different method of assembly and packaging to reduce manufacturing and shipping costs.

The only way to be certain is to assemble both antennas and put them side by side.

If you look at the Tetrapole UHF loop driven element on the boxes, you can see that it is the same size and has the same relative position to the adjacent elements. The size of the Tetrapole, and the adjacent elements, is determined by frequency, which must be the same for both antennas.
http://www.bhg.com/shop/rca-rca-outd...81283f3a3.html

https://www.lowes.com/pd/RCA-Outdoor...11480007446258

https://www.lowes.com/pd/RCA-Outdoor...nna/1000108007


The RCA ANT7511 at Lowe's looks like the RCA ANT751 to me.

http://www.rcaantennas.net/outdoor/?sku=ANT751R

http://www.rcaantennas.net/docs/comm...ANT751R_OM.pdf



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post #16543 of 16550 Unread Yesterday, 04:07 PM
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Quote:
you can see in the picture below the RCA ANT7511 is the bigger and the RCA ANT751R is smaller
All I can see is that one box is bigger than the other. The graphics on the boxes appear, at least in the photo, to be of the same antenna.

Quote:
also the smaller one says out performs most bigger antennas?
There's very, very little about "RCA"'s marketing claims that I have any confidence in.
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post #16544 of 16550 Unread Yesterday, 08:23 PM
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Did a quick install the RCA ANT751R today instantly scanned in 81 channels nice
After cleaning up the channels deleting blank dead foreign shopping and religious channels I'm left with 50 solid channels
I didn't even attempt to install really high up on top of the roof just went as high as a could with the ladder I had available
Wondering if there would be any real benefit going higher or grabbing the CM4228HD instead
I'm not seeing any break up on the channels there coming in solid

I don't mind spending the extra $$ a pro higher install or on the CM4228HD just wondering what will it buy me in my area ??



Quote:
Originally Posted by rabbit73 View Post
Just because the box is bigger doesn't mean the antenna is bigger. The newer version could have a different method of assembly and packaging to reduce manufacturing and shipping costs.

The only way to be certain is to assemble both antennas and put them side by side.

If you look at the Tetrapole UHF loop driven element on the boxes, you can see that it is the same size and has the same relative position to the adjacent elements. The size of the Tetrapole, and the adjacent elements, is determined by frequency, which must be the same for both antennas.
http://www.bhg.com/shop/rca-rca-outd...81283f3a3.html

https://www.lowes.com/pd/RCA-Outdoor...11480007446258

https://www.lowes.com/pd/RCA-Outdoor...nna/1000108007


The RCA ANT7511 at Lowe's looks like the RCA ANT751 to me.

http://www.rcaantennas.net/outdoor/?sku=ANT751R

http://www.rcaantennas.net/docs/comm...ANT751R_OM.pdf



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post #16545 of 16550 Unread Yesterday, 08:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kram1 View Post
...
I'm not seeing any break up on the channels there coming in solid

I don't mind spending the extra $$ higher install or on the CM4228HD just what will it buy me ??
Are you a DTV DXer or a program watcher?

I am the latter but there are many DXers around who want to build lists of what they can receive and under what conditions and are constantly checking.

If you get the programs you want then be happy. All will change in three years when the DTV repack happens and you may need a completely different antenna for VHF Lo.

SHF
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post #16546 of 16550 Unread Yesterday, 08:55 PM
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I never even heard the term DTV DXer I had to google it to figure out what your talking about
I'm just a guy playing around with trying to but the cable seeing what I can get with out it
Trying to get the best bang for my buck is all
Do you think going higher up or grabbing a CM4228HD is going to make a difference ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SFischer1 View Post
Are you a DTV DXer or a program watcher?

I am the latter but there are many DXers around who want to build lists of what they can receive and under what conditions and are constantly checking.

If you get the programs you want then be happy. All will change in three years when the DTV repack happens and you may need a completely different antenna for VHF Lo.

SHF
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post #16547 of 16550 Unread Yesterday, 09:38 PM
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Originally Posted by kram1 View Post
I never even heard the term DTV DXer I had to google it to figure out what your talking about
I'm just a guy playing around with trying to but the cable seeing what I can get with out it
Trying to get the best bang for my buck is all
Do you think going higher up or grabbing a CM4228HD is going to make a difference ?
That is an question for the antenna expert who just made a post elsewhere who can read the TVFool's like the back of his hand.

Try posting your TVFool link, that might encourage him to chime in. Mine looks like this:

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...dfaf4989f75b87

The normal TVFool image cuts off some of the information at the bottom preventing my poor guesses that the antenna expert can recognize immediately. That's one reason the link is asked for.

The TV Fool Google map gave me a picture of where you are:

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=90

Click on "Show lines pointing to each transmitter".

The CM4228HD has more gain for UHF and less for VHF being limited to RF 6 and above. The RCA ANT751R is more directional than the CM4228HD, having stations ~ 180 degrees apart is usually bad for the CM4228HD.

Try matching what you can receive with the TVFool list. Is there any network that is missing that you want?

http://www.rabbitears.info/networkgrid.php

SHF
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post #16548 of 16550 Unread Yesterday, 11:47 PM
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Here
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...dfaf72007de500


Quote:
Originally Posted by SFischer1 View Post
That is an question for the antenna expert who just made a post elsewhere who can read the TVFool's like the back of his hand.

Try posting your TVFool link, that might encourage him to chime in. Mine looks like this:

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...dfaf4989f75b87

The normal TVFool image cuts off some of the information at the bottom preventing my poor guesses that the antenna expert can recognize immediately. That's one reason the link is asked for.

The TV Fool Google map gave me a picture of where you are:

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=90

Click on "Show lines pointing to each transmitter".

The CM4228HD has more gain for UHF and less for VHF being limited to RF 6 and above. The RCA ANT751R is more directional than the CM4228HD, having stations ~ 180 degrees apart is usually bad for the CM4228HD.

Try matching what you can receive with the TVFool list. Is there any network that is missing that you want?

http://www.rabbitears.info/networkgrid.php

SHF

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Quote:
The CM4228HD has more gain for UHF
Yes, by a long shot.
Quote:
less for VHF being limited to RF 6 and above.
Unknown. I've never seen either modeling or field testing that characterized either antenna on the VHF band.
Quote:
The RCA ANT751R is more directional than the CM4228HD
On UHF, absolutely not as the 8 bay antenna is designed to be very directional. On VHF, unknown.
Quote:
having stations ~ 180 degrees apart is usually bad for the CM4228HD.
If the stations are weak, very true. If the stations are strong as in this case, it probably doesn't matter, they're still strong enough to come in off the back side as the F/B ratio is insufficient to suppress a station with a NM of over 20dB (just a broad estimate, it's probably closer to 10 dB).

Quote:
Wondering if there would be any real benefit going higher or grabbing the CM4228HD instead
I'm not seeing any break up on the channels there coming in solid
If you're getting all of the networks reliably and you're not missing anything you know you'd like, go watch TV and be done with for now.
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CM4228HD is a UHF-ONLY Antenna and (like most other commercial Antennas now on the market) uses a PCB (Printed Circuit Board) Balun designed for the UHF (only) Band. Loss through the CM4228HD's PCB Balun (as well as other similar, but different PCB Baluns) is UNKNOWN. FWIW: If you want to "hack" the CM4228HD and replace PCB Balun with a conventional cylindrical Transformer Balun, while modifying with the HHH (Holl_ands Horizontal Harness), then the Hi-VHF Response would be greatly improved, as I modeled here...although high SWR may or may NOT be a problem....and if it is, try adding short [9-24 inch] pieces of coax to MOVE the NULL away from the end of the downlead:
http://imageevent.com/holl_ands/mult...dshorizharness
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