The Official AVS Antenna and Related Hardware Topic! - Page 555 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #16621 of 16641 Unread 03-21-2017, 06:04 PM
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Your tvfool report for reference because we are on a new page:
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...e6a42a129acd72
Image of report in attachment for use when the tvfool website is down.

Quote:
We used to get KFPX-DT, WOI-DT, KCWI-DT, KCCI-DT, WHO-DT, KDIN-DT, KDSM-DT & MAYBE a couple others if the time of day was right.
KFPX ION 39, with a NM of -7.8 dB is good catch. It is a 2Edge signal with terrain interference and only 22 kW out of 116 kW ERP is sent your way because of its directional transmitting antenna.
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...ALLTV%26n%3d13

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See attached. I'd LIKE to get the ones I've highlighted in green and blue. FOR SURE the ones I've highlighted in green


K41DD very weak and in a different direction. Only 0.049 kW out of 13.3 kW ERP is sent in your direction because of the directional transmitting antenna. That's 49 Watts. You must want it for HSN. That might require a separate antenna, custom filter, and special preamp. If you can receive KFPX ION, it has HSN as a subchannel.
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...ALLTV%26n%3d12

http://www.rabbitears.info/market.ph...&callsign=kfpx

KDMI easy
KDSM easy
KCWI easy
KCCI easy with VHF-High antenna
WHO easy with VHF-High antenna
KDIN easy with VHF-High antenna
WOI 5 easy with VHF-low antenna

WOI 50 weak and in a different direction; you want to deal with the problems of a rotator?
WBXF weak and in a different direction
KAJR very weak
KCYM extremely weak
KFPX very weak as mentioned above, but I guess you want ION
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If you can not measure it, you can not improve it.
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post #16622 of 16641 Unread 03-21-2017, 06:40 PM
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I didn't know if the age of the unit mattered. Also, it is missing one or two "arms."
It would be OK for a test because it covers all three TV bands, but the missing elements probably reduce its performance. It should be replaced.
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The unit will be back on the roof. Only do well with UHF? I was under the impression that the ULTRAtenna 60 was where most of my problems were coming from IF the difference were the directional ant vs the one that isn't designed to pick up ABC?
If you make a test using the ULTRAtenna and new coax, you should expect it to do well for UHF channels, only fair for VHF-High (7-13) channels, and poorly for VHF-Low channels (2-6).

If you can not measure it, you can not improve it.
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post #16623 of 16641 Unread 03-22-2017, 03:51 AM
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WOI 50 weak and in a different direction; you want to deal with the problems of a rotator?
A low-VHF antenna makes catching the UHF50 translator irrelevant. Besides, that translator WILL disappear with the repack, probably relocated to a different channel, perhaps gone completely.

When it comes to ION, I'm curious to see if they will remain as broadcasters after the auction or if they decided to sell out. A quick survey of the NAB's repack site doesn't turn up any of their stations as relocating, so either they simply didn't respond to the voluntary survey or they sold out. I'd suggest waiting until the official results are known before expending any additional effort in receiving their signal.

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post #16624 of 16641 Unread 03-22-2017, 07:50 AM
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All of your major stations should be easy. You should probably, if you already haven't, investigate all of those other stations to see if they're actually of interest to you. As I noted previously, the low power stations 47.x miles to your east are going to be very challenging to receive, if they're even possible. Are you sure they are worth the extra effort? If so, simply scrap out the preamp and aim your current antenna at them and see if they come in as a test. That will give you a good baseline as to whether or not they're going to be feasible.
Good morning!
Full disclosure. Before I packed up last night I decided to climb up on the roof and have a look. I had wanted to get some ideas from the forum before I climbed up there. SOOOOOOOO, got up on the roof with the intent of bypassing the amp and seeing what would happen. When I got up there I noticed that the light on the amp was not lit up. SOOOOOOOO, I figured out that the Bulldog had climbed behind the TV and unplugged the power to the amp....... Powered it back up, ran a scan and now back to where we started. As of this morning I'm getting KCCI, KDIN, WHO, KDSM, KDMI, KCWI & K41DD. That having been said, I still realize that the ULTRAtenna 60 won't (and didn't when I scanned) get WOI 5. So, when I get back home, I'll put up the old directional unit that SHOULD pick up WOI 5.

I'm sure glad I posted here, as I learned why I was not getting WOI 5. That is important to me.

I've attached a better picture of the old ant that will be going back up soon. For reference, it is standing next to an 8ft step ladder. If that is an improvement, I might very well invest in a new unit. After all, with just 2 months of cable bills, I'd have it paid for!

After I get back I'll let you know how the swap went.

Russ
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post #16625 of 16641 Unread 03-22-2017, 07:55 AM
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Originally Posted by ProjectSHO89 View Post
When it comes to ION, I'm curious to see if they will remain as broadcasters after the auction or if they decided to sell out. A quick survey of the NAB's repack site doesn't turn up any of their stations as relocating, so either they simply didn't respond to the voluntary survey or they sold out. I'd suggest waiting until the official results are known before expending any additional effort in receiving their signal.
This is REALLY good to know. Becky was REALLY wanting to get ION back. With the old ant that I'm putting back up this weekend, we got it. We no longer get it with the Ulta60, with or without the booster.
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post #16626 of 16641 Unread 03-22-2017, 06:09 PM
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Originally Posted by ProjectSHO89 View Post
A low-VHF antenna makes catching the UHF50 translator irrelevant. Besides, that translator WILL disappear with the repack, probably relocated to a different channel, perhaps gone completely.

When it comes to ION, I'm curious to see if they will remain as broadcasters after the auction or if they decided to sell out. A quick survey of the NAB's repack site doesn't turn up any of their stations as relocating, so either they simply didn't respond to the voluntary survey or they sold out. I'd suggest waiting until the official results are known before expending any additional effort in receiving their signal.
Many broadcasters are probably waiting for the FCC to announce the rest of the deals all at once, in a sort of safety-in-numbers scenario. ION has 3 stations in the Boston market, and 1 in the adjacent Providence market. All are full power UHF stations, and all carrying the same main and 5 subchannels. It's hard to believe they would not want to pick up $100 million or more by giving up at least one of them.

Then there are the stations owned by speculators like OTA (Michael Dell) and NRJ which haven't revealed anything.
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post #16627 of 16641 Unread 03-22-2017, 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by rmorman View Post
...

I'll put up the old directional unit that SHOULD pick up WOI 5
...

I've attached a better picture of the old ant that will be going back up soon. For reference, it is standing next to an 8ft step ladder. If that is an improvement, I might very well invest in a new unit. After all, with just 2 months of cable bills, I'd have it paid for!

After I get back I'll let you know how the swap went.

Russ
The longest element missing in the picture to the left will IMHO affect VHF-Lo the most.

But there may be not as bad an effect on RF 5. RF 2 is the most to be affected.

SHF
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post #16628 of 16641 Unread 03-23-2017, 01:35 AM
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If you can provide Detailed Measurements for the Spacings along the Boom [X-Coords, X1 thru X4], Element Lengths [L1 thru L4] and Outer-Tip-to-Center of Boom [Y-Coords, Y1 thru Y2] for the four LONG VHF Element Pairs, then I can readily construct a 4nec2 Model and let you know what happens when one of the rear elements is missing. [My gut feel is that it won't be all that much of an impact, since the FRONT of the VHF LPDA is primarily Active for Ch5/6. And for Ch2/3 the Rearward Elements are primarily Active.]:
http://www.antenna-theory.com/antenn...dic-dipole.php

It would also help if I could see some DETAILED PHOTOs [include a ruler or measure tape!!!] to determinee HOW the remaining most Rearward Half of an Element Pair connects to the (presumably Dual Boom) Feedline Structure....and another for the most Forward LPDA Element Pair.

BTW: I do NOT need info re the UHF Corner Reflector, Active Dipole Element (connection point for Balun), UHF Yagi Director Elements or the VHF/UHF Interconnect....the 4nec2 Model will ONLY include the 4 Element Pairs in the VHF LPDA section.

FYI: Here is a similar Investigation I conducted for the VHF LPDA section of a severely damaged R-S VU-190XR:
http://imageevent.com/holl_ands/zigz...190xrlpdanouhf

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post #16629 of 16641 Unread 03-24-2017, 07:58 AM
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The longest element missing in the picture to the left will IMHO affect VHF-Lo the most.

But there may be not as bad an effect on RF 5. RF 2 is the most to be affected.

SHF
Planning on trying the old unit again this weekend if not too windy.

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Originally Posted by holl_ands View Post
If you can provide Detailed Measurements for the Spacings along the Boom [X-Coords, X1 thru X4], Element Lengths [L1 thru L4] and Outer-Tip-to-Center of Boom [Y-Coords, Y1 thru Y2] for the four LONG VHF Element Pairs, then I can readily construct a 4nec2 Model and let you know what happens when one of the rear elements is missing. [My gut feel is that it won't be all that much of an impact, since the FRONT of the VHF LPDA is primarily Active for Ch5/6. And for Ch2/3 the Rearward Elements are primarily Active.]:
http://www.antenna-theory.com/antenn...dic-dipole.php

It would also help if I could see some DETAILED PHOTOs [include a ruler or measure tape!!!] to determinee HOW the remaining most Rearward Half of an Element Pair connects to the (presumably Dual Boom) Feedline Structure....and another for the most Forward LPDA Element Pair.

BTW: I do NOT need info re the UHF Corner Reflector, Active Dipole Element (connection point for Balun), UHF Yagi Director Elements or the VHF/UHF Interconnect....the 4nec2 Model will ONLY include the 4 Element Pairs in the VHF LPDA section.

FYI: Here is a similar Investigation I conducted for the VHF LPDA section of a severely damaged R-S VU-190XR:
http://imageevent.com/holl_ands/zigz...190xrlpdanouhf
Cool, Thanks! I might just take you up on that!
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post #16630 of 16641 Unread Today, 09:56 AM
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I've got a question, about installing a 7-13 antenna. I've had OTA since before digital, but since the end of analog I have been using a UHF only. I had been lucky up until the last several months, picking up VHF with it, but I started having issues with channel 10. I believe it is a neighbors fountain that is making enough noise to kill my signal. I am about to install this antenna, and will do so with a horizontal mast at the top of my pole. One side will carry the VHF, the other my weather sensor. Then below will be the UHF 8 bowties.

The question is, can I install this VHF antenna sideways? (vertical) Will it be just as effective?
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post #16631 of 16641 Unread Today, 10:13 AM
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Short answer : NO
The only chance for using a vertical antenna for TV is if the station were to be using circular polarization.
John
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post #16632 of 16641 Unread Today, 10:22 AM
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There are a couple of VHF's that are using circular, but not the channel 10. Thanks ctdish for the advice. I will do the install horizontal.
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post #16633 of 16641 Unread Today, 10:48 AM
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There are a couple of VHF's that are using circular, but not the channel 10. Thanks ctdish for the advice. I will do the install horizontal.

If you're going to mount a horizontal antenna on a horizontal mast the mast must not be metal. I've used fiberglass poles to do this.
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post #16634 of 16641 Unread Today, 11:16 AM
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If you're going to mount a horizontal antenna on a horizontal mast the mast must not be metal. I've used fiberglass poles to do this.
We know the jointenna is toast and no longer is a useful product now even at a high price.

My question is: Can you buy a filter to reduce the VHF signals from a existing VHF / UHF antenna so a separate VHF antenna can be used. We may need to get a VHF-Lo antenna to use with an existing VHF-Hi / UHF antenna.

I would use a separate cable and tuner as I do now but many people may start to need VHF-Lo and start asking questions as to how to combine the antennas.

SHF
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post #16635 of 16641 Unread Today, 11:54 AM
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Can you buy a filter to reduce the VHF signals from a existing VHF / UHF antenna so a separate VHF antenna can be used.
Sure, just use a UVSJ. Our UHF/VHF combiner is an example of one. If you have a surviving Radio Shack store around, the 15-2586 is another. Online availability of those guys for under $5 seems to have dried up. I suspect that Holland, Pico et al, have discontinued them.
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post #16636 of 16641 Unread Today, 12:30 PM
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Sure, just use a UVSJ. Our UHF/VHF combiner is an example of one. If you have a surviving Radio Shack store around, the 15-2586 is another. Online availability of those guys for under $5 seems to have dried up. I suspect that Holland, Pico et al, have discontinued them.
OK, use the UVSJ to eliminate the VHF frequencies from the VHF/UHF antenna leaving the VHF connector unused and then use a second UVSJ to combine the separate VHF antenna and the UHF from the first UVSJ.

Sounds like a plan. No Inserted Multipath.

SHF
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post #16637 of 16641 Unread Today, 12:40 PM
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My question is: Can you buy a filter to reduce the VHF signals from a existing VHF / UHF antenna so a separate VHF antenna can be used. We may need to get a VHF-Lo antenna to use with an existing VHF-Hi / UHF antenna.
The proper device to combine a VHF-Low antenna with a VHF-High/UHF antenna is a HLSJ.



The low port passes VHF-Low and blocks VHF-High and UHF. The high port blocks VHF-Low and passes VHF-High and UHF.
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post #16638 of 16641 Unread Today, 12:40 PM
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That's twice as many UVSJ devices than are needed.

One will do that just fine.

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post #16639 of 16641 Unread Today, 12:48 PM
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If you use a UVSJ to combine a VHF-Low antenna with a VHF-High/UHF antenna, you will lose the VHF-High channels from the VHF-High/UHF antenna. The high-pass filter section of the UVSJ passes above about 300 MHz.

That would only be OK if the VHF-Low antenna is able to pick up the VHF-High channels you need.

Maybe you could tell us which channels you have in mind and show us a tvfool report?

Or, maybe I didn't understand what you said. I thought you said you wanted to use a VHF-Low antenna for VHF-Low channels and a VHF-High/UHF combo antenna for VHF-High and UHF.

If you can not measure it, you can not improve it.
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post #16640 of 16641 Unread Today, 01:18 PM
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If you use a UVSJ to combine a VHF-Low antenna with a VHF-High/UHF antenna, you will lose the VHF-High channels from the VHF-High/UHF antenna.

That would only be OK if the VHF-Low antenna is able to pick up the VHF-High channels you need.

Maybe you could tell us which channels you have in mind and show us a tvfool report?
You will have to wait ~ three (3) weeks, only then will the need be known. If I have a need then there is the problem of where to put the antenna, only one antenna is allowed now and the mounting is a very serious problem.

http://www.avsforum.com/photopost/sh...hp?cat=2165469

Maybe a better plan would be to grind off the metal coating of the boards of the underside of my new roof.

I have a mute VHF-Hi/Lo antenna in my attic which was working great until the new roof was put in place. The CM4228HD gets RF 7 and RF 12 just fine.

SHF
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post #16641 of 16641 Unread Today, 01:38 PM
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Thank you for the background information. Yes, you will have a serious problem if you need a 2-6 channel. The aluminum foil thermal barrier will block it for the attic antenna, and your 4228 probably will not have enough gain for a VHF-Low channel unless it is extremely strong.

You would have to remove a lot of foil for an attic VHF-Low antenna.

It might be possible to mount a simple VHF-Low dipole, folded dipole, or bent folded dipole above the 4228.

If you can not measure it, you can not improve it.
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