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post #16711 of 16731 Old 05-12-2017, 06:01 AM
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Originally Posted by SFischer1 View Post
Question about antenna from San Francisco, CA - OTA



To me it does, comments from others?

SHF
That's the HDB91X antenna, which is a clone of the 91XG. Very good antenna, and available for under $40 often on sale. I have two up and running right now, and one in the box waiting...
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post #16712 of 16731 Old 05-12-2017, 11:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SFischer1 View Post
Question about antenna from San Francisco, CA - OTA



To me it does, comments from others?

SHF
It looks a lot like a 91XG from Antennas Direct, although at a lower price. Most folks have had excellent results with this antenna, myself included. I bought a 91XG on Amazon for $70, so you don't have to pay list. Still not as cheap as the MCM, but for all the installation trouble and other components involved you probably want a decent product. Is the balun design different? Who knows, can't tell from a picture.

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post #16713 of 16731 Old 05-12-2017, 03:50 PM
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Looks like the 91XG, but it sure is cheaper in price. I wonder how the quality compares. Has anyone compared the two?

My complete SF Bay Area DTV Station Lists: http://www.choisser.com/sfonair.html
Lots of Broadcasting links and information: http://www.choisser.com/broadcast.html
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post #16714 of 16731 Old 05-12-2017, 04:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Primestar31 View Post
That's the HDB91X antenna, which is a clone of the 91XG. Very good antenna, and available for under $40 often on sale. I have two up and running right now, and one in the box waiting...
How are you configuring them, pointed at separate transmitters? RF combining, switches or separate tuners?

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post #16715 of 16731 Old 05-12-2017, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by lifespeed View Post
How are you configuring them, pointed at separate transmitters? RF combining, switches or separate tuners?
In my case, I have a UHF flamethrower station 35 miles away South-East on RF22 (WNEM), that is 1 MEGA-watt, and throws 874kW's my way! It's located about 200 yards away from another tower broadcasting on RF46 (WBSF), that broadcasts a total power of only 70kW's, yet only throws 31kW's my way. I have to use a Jan Jenca Jointenna device for RF46 with a dedicated HDB91x (91xg clone) aimed right at it, to keep it from breaking up. If I don't, RF22 (WNEM) swamps it out.

Then at the opposite farthest end of my local station bearings, there's a station on RF16 (WSMH) pushing only 29.9kW's my way, located right next to a station on RF48 (WAQP) pushing 841kW's!

So, I have one HDB91x dedicated and aimed at RF46 with a Jan Jenca Jointenna, then I have a second HDB91x aimed at the RF16 station (WSMH), which is my "all (UHF) channels EXCEPT channel RF46" antenna on that input of the Jointenna device. The combined output of the Jointenna goes into a Kitztech KT-200-COAX preamp, then into the UHF side of a Radio Shack UVSJ that's power-pass on the UHF side.

So, the two UHF HDB91x antenna's are aimed at the weakest stations in my arc, yet on the "all (UHF) channels EXCEPT RF46" HDB91x, it not only gets full signal on my other weak station in my receivable arc (RF16), BUT, the other stations are still powerful enough that they come in fine with the antenna aimed as it is.

By the way, I also have a third High band VHF only antenna (AC Y10-7-13) aimed at and picking up RF12 (WJRT) which is my only VHF station. That goes into the VHF side of a UVSJ, and is not amplified at all.

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post #16716 of 16731 Old 05-12-2017, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Primestar31 View Post
That's the HDB91X antenna, which is a clone of the 91XG. Very good antenna, and available for under $40 often on sale. I have two up and running right now, and one in the box waiting...
How long have you been using it? Just wondering about long-term reliability.
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post #16717 of 16731 Old 05-12-2017, 04:33 PM
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How long have you been using it? Just wondering about long-term reliability.
Using the HDB91x's, or this configuration of them? This configuration is about 1.5 years old, but moved to a new house where it used to have to be much higher up for the same signal levels. It's at 25 feet now, and used to be over 40ft at the previous house.

I've been using the HDB91x's for about 4 or so years and have had no issues with them. I previously had a regular 91XG, but it didn't survive a couple Winters without the plastic getting brittle and breaking.
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post #16718 of 16731 Old 05-12-2017, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Primestar31 View Post
Using the HDB91x's, or this configuration of them?
How long you had the antenna in use. 4 years sounds good. Thanks.
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post #16719 of 16731 Old 05-12-2017, 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Primestar31 View Post
In my case, I have a UHF flamethrower station 35 miles away South-East on RF22 (WNEM), that is 1 MEGA-watt, and throws 874kW's my way! It's located about 200 yards away from another tower broadcasting on RF46 (WBSF), that broadcasts a total power of only 70kW's, yet only throws 31kW's my way. I have to use a Jan Jenca Jointenna device for RF46 with a dedicated HDB91x (91xg clone) aimed right at it, to keep it from breaking up. If I don't, RF22 (WNEM) swamps it out.
Interesting situation, sounds like you've been able to make it work well with the Jointennas and directional antennae. I ended up going with dedicated network tuners (Silicondust HDHR4-2US) per antenna to combine my signals in the digital domain, no RF interactions and transparent to the user. But this setup presumes you're using a computer DVR front end instead of the tuner in your TV, which may not be so unusual these days.

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post #16720 of 16731 Old 05-12-2017, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by lifespeed View Post
Interesting situation, sounds like you've been able to make it work well with the Jointennas and directional antennae. I ended up going with dedicated network tuners (Silicondust HDHR4-2US) per antenna to combine my signals in the digital domain, no RF interactions and transparent to the user. But this setup presumes you're using a computer DVR front end instead of the tuner in your TV, which may not be so unusual these days.
I'm setup this way for using a Tivo Roamio basic, so couldn't go with a coax switch, rotor motor, or network tuners. Luckily the towers I need to aim at are all within about a 47 degree arc from East to South-East. I am dealing with a tree situation also, so that's why I have to also use the Kitztech preamp for uhf reception. The KT-200-Coax brings up the weaker stations a bit (and to compensate for the Jointenna loss), without overloading on the blowtorch stations.
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post #16721 of 16731 Old 05-13-2017, 11:41 AM
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That's a very good price for a fairly good UHF Yagi Antenna.....but it has significant Loss on Lower Channels.
8-Bay Bowtie Antenna (e.g. DB-8e, CM4228+HHH-Mod or HDB-8x) has MUCH more Gain on Lower Channels:
http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?p=hdb8x


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post #16722 of 16731 Old 05-15-2017, 09:04 AM
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.... I previously had a regular 91XG, but it didn't survive a couple Winters without the plastic getting brittle and breaking.
I find that a bit surprising as I'm not aware of any similar concerns or complaints. In my personal experience, I had a "stretched" 91XG up on my previous home for 7 years. The only failure it ever suffered was from getting its tail end swatted by a nearby tree in a windstorm a few years back that required a new rear boom section as a replacement. We do get an occasional warranty call for directors that have been knocked off by hail or an occasional balun enclosure with water ingress, but that's about it. I can't recall a single claim for what you've described in the almost 9 years I've been here so I'd certainly be interested in your situation if you still have your antenna.

Just a reminder to all readers, all Antennas Direct antennas do come with a LIFETIME warranty, so don't overlook that value. We also have customer service personnel working seven days a week to handle inbound customer inquiries.

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post #16723 of 16731 Old 05-15-2017, 09:21 AM
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It was one of the original XG-91's, back at the end of the 1980's. I bought it mail order from an ad in either Popular Electronic's or Radio Electronics. I don't remember the name of the company I got it from anymore. It lasted less than 3 years, (it sagged in the middle also) at the top of a 56' tower.

This one had directors made of aluminum tubing in X's (pretty short ones), not the present stamped type ones.

I no longer have it, or what was left of it.
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post #16724 of 16731 Old 05-15-2017, 09:48 AM
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Antennas Direct has new versions of their Clearstream antennas, including the Clearstream 2MAX now sold at Walmart for $79. It looks like it is easier to assemble, and may now be more omnidirectional without the reflector screen. It also includes the VHF dipole. A 4MAX version is reportedly coming in June.
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post #16725 of 16731 Old 05-15-2017, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Primestar31 View Post
It was one of the original XG-91's, back at the end of the 1980's. I bought it mail order from an ad in either Popular Electronic's or Radio Electronics. I don't remember the name of the company I got it from anymore. It lasted less than 3 years, (it sagged in the middle also) at the top of a 56' tower.

This one had directors made of aluminum tubing in X's (pretty short ones), not the present stamped type ones.

I no longer have it, or what was left of it.
Ah, so that wasn't one of our 91XG antennas after all. Antennas Direct first sold the 91XG around the year 2005 or so.

That explains a lot...

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post #16726 of 16731 Old 05-15-2017, 02:04 PM
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Antennas Direct has new versions of their Clearstream antennas, including the Clearstream 2MAX now sold at Walmart for $79. It looks like it is easier to assemble, and may now be more omnidirectional without the reflector screen. It also includes the VHF dipole. A 4MAX version is reportedly coming in June.
It's simple matter of pulling the antenna out of the box, no antenna assembly is necessary for the C2MAX in order to attach it to a mast. For the C1MAX (on our website) and the C4MAX (available mid June or so), the VHF dipoles need to be attached (pretty easy to do, Philips screwdriver). We re-did those models for our retail customers to make them much easier to install.

Without reflectors, all of the models are bi-directional on both UHF and VHF, not omnidirectional. Reflector kits (add-on option) will be available late summer early fall.

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post #16727 of 16731 Old 05-15-2017, 03:05 PM
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In my personal experience, I had a "stretched" 91XG up on my previous home for 7 years.
Any comments on the specific implementation of stretching, does it involve the higher frequency directors (closer) or lower frequency? What are the benefits, more directivity and gain?

Can we expect to see a scaled version of this antenna for the new 600MHz upper band limit of UHF TV? The 91XG design dates back to an 800MHz upper band edge, now it is 700MHz, soon to be 600MHz. Yes, it works as-is, but there will be a lot of performance left on the table with the much narrower 470 to 608MHz UHF TV band. Match and gain should dramatically improve with a narrower band design.

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post #16728 of 16731 Old 05-15-2017, 03:25 PM
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Any comments on the specific implementation of stretching, does it involve the higher frequency directors (closer) or lower frequency? What are the benefits, more directivity and gain?

Can we expect to see a scaled version of this antenna for the new 600MHz upper band limit of UHF TV? The 91XG design dates back to an 800MHz upper band edge, now it is 700MHz, soon to be 600MHz. Yes, it works as-is, but there will be a lot of performance left on the table with the much narrower 470 to 608MHz UHF TV band. Match and gain should dramatically improve with a narrower band design.
Stretching one is fairly easy, but not worth the trouble. Stacking them is a much better use of your time and money. If you need stacking that is. Raising a single antenna higher (or making sure you have clear line of sight) will usually gain you more.

I also wish they'd redesign for the new spectrum also. I'd buy two to replace my present HDB91x's.
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post #16729 of 16731 Old 05-15-2017, 03:49 PM
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I also wish they'd redesign for the new spectrum also. I'd buy two to replace my present HDB91x's.
I'll probably buy a new antenna once the manufacturers start re-designing their products. The first 100MHz amputation they seemed to ignore, but the band has now shrunk by more than half so lots to gain by a redesign.

As for my interest in stretching the 91XG, it is mostly academic. Stacking side-by-side would help SF bay area multipath via increased directivity, but I can get away with a single antenna currently. We'll see if anything changes after the repack.

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post #16730 of 16731 Unread Yesterday, 08:17 AM
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The first 100MHz amputation they seemed to ignore, but the band has now shrunk by more than half so lots to gain by a redesign.
Our ClearStream UHF antennas were designed from the ground up for the post-2009 UHF frequencies. Our bowties antennas were also redesigned and relaunched as the "e" series shortly afterward (2011).

Quote:
As for my interest in stretching the 91XG, it is mostly academic.
My "stretched" 91XG was done by adding an additional center section to the stock antenna. It slightly narrowed the beamwidth and helped with a spot more forward gain. Magnitude of any of those changes would be nothing more than a guess at this point.

As for post-2020 UHF frequencies, I did hear that our design engineer was just tasked with the new parameters last week and given instructions on what to do. I do not know any details beyond that. Given that the development pipeline has, in the past, run anywhere from 6-24 months for a new product to emerge on the market, I'd expect 2020 to be the target date as we just spent a BIG truckload of money last year on product re-skins and some new product developments that haven't yet been announced..

As for the 91XG, I have now idea what its future might hold. Anyway, those decisions are above my pay grade, as we used to say when i was in the service years ago.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lifespeed View Post
As for my interest in stretching the 91XG, it is mostly academic. Stacking side-by-side would help SF bay area multipath via increased directivity, but I can get away with a single antenna currently. We'll see if anything changes after the repack.

I made a 41 element 91XG out of two of them. I had it up for awhile and it seemed to work about the same as stacking two of them.
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