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post #16741 of 16761 Old 08-19-2017, 06:43 AM
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Originally Posted by jstenuf View Post
I live in the Minneapolis/St.Paul Minnesota of area. I am working on cutting the cord, but the other half won't allow a roof top antenna so I am forced to place the antenna in the attic. I would appreciate any advice on the best antenna for this application as well as any other advice/recommendations.

You should start your own thread for this and provide a link to your TV Fool report. But your situation is very easy. Assuming you want just the stations at 324/327 degrees which are close and extremely strong a small VHF/UHF antenna should work in the attic. I'd go with the Winegard HD7694P if it'll fit or maybe the smaller RCA ANT751. Do not use a preamp. The stations are too strong and there will be overload.

If you want all those "LD" stations then that's another story.
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post #16742 of 16761 Old 08-19-2017, 04:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jstenuf View Post
I live in the Minneapolis/St.Paul Minnesota of area. I am working on cutting the cord, but the other half won't allow a roof top antenna so I am forced to place the antenna in the attic. I would appreciate any advice on the best antenna for this application as well as any other advice/recommendations.
I have attached a "TV Fool" analysis below

Thanks in advance.
Post a live link, not a photo. Do you care about the stations in red and yellow?

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post #16743 of 16761 Old 08-19-2017, 09:16 PM
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Originally Posted by lifespeed View Post
Post a live link, not a photo. Do you care about the stations in red and yellow?
The stations in green should be all I need.
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post #16744 of 16761 Old 08-19-2017, 09:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Calaveras View Post
You should start your own thread for this and provide a link to your TV Fool report. But your situation is very easy. Assuming you want just the stations at 324/327 degrees which are close and extremely strong a small VHF/UHF antenna should work in the attic. I'd go with the Winegard HD7694P if it'll fit or maybe the smaller RCA ANT751. Do not use a preamp. The stations are too strong and there will be overload.

If you want all those "LD" stations then that's another story.
Is the range of the recommended antennas required because of signal loss associated with an attic installation?
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post #16745 of 16761 Old 08-20-2017, 06:48 AM
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Originally Posted by jstenuf View Post
Is the range of the recommended antennas required because of signal loss associated with an attic installation?
Antennas don't have ranges and are not rated in miles so I'm not sure what you're asking. There is signal loss in an attic and reflections inside the attic can cause problems regardless of the signal strength. You should be able to receive all the stations in green with the antenna pointed at about 305 degrees.
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post #16746 of 16761 Old 08-20-2017, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by jstenuf View Post
The stations in green should be all I need.
In that case you shouldn't have much trouble barring unforseen attic reflections. I agree with Calaveras.

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post #16747 of 16761 Old 08-20-2017, 04:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jstenuf View Post
The stations in green should be all I need.


How many televisions? How much cable between the antenna and your distribution? Between the distribution and the televisions?


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post #16748 of 16761 Old 08-20-2017, 07:56 PM
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How many televisions? How much cable between the antenna and your distribution? Between the distribution and the televisions?


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Two television.
Approximately 20 feet to the distribution point
Approximately 30 feet for 1 of the sets from the distribution point and 50 feet for the second.
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post #16749 of 16761 Old 08-21-2017, 12:36 AM
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"Attic Loss" varies a LOT due to construction details and Roofing Materials (Metal is the WORST and Red Spanish Tile is also fairly high with wood shingles LOW....until it gets WET)....and whether signals are blocked by Aluminized Mylar "Thermal Wrap", Foil Backed Insulation or Chicken Wire in Stucco (popular in my location)....and BTW, shooting through END of the Attic may be LOWER Loss...esp. if remove Metal Mylar/Foil. OTOH, Windows can let signal leak in, where they are reflected around inside....unless they have a LowE Thermal [Metal] coating...which has about 20 dB Loss. Based on looking at MANY different OTA Tests over MANY years, on the average there is about 13 dB +/- 7 dB difference between Roof and Attic Mounted Antenna....which is a HUGE difference.

Last edited by holl_ands; 08-21-2017 at 12:39 AM.
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post #16750 of 16761 Old 08-21-2017, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by jstenuf View Post
Is the range of the recommended antennas required because of signal loss associated with an attic installation?
One other possibility should the cool, wife-pleasing invisible attic installation prove problematic due to the various interfering materials mentioned: a rather small, unobtrusive directional combination VHF/UHF antenna would not even be visible from the ground depending on mounting location. The ELEV-J3 would be one possibility. Mounted low at the peak of the roof it would be hard to see.

Inside the attic, the largest, highest-gain Yagi you can fit has the best chancing of working with the diminshed signal and multipath. If you have any metal in the roof, or foil insulation applied to the roof sheeting, you may want to consider a small, discreet outdoor antenna instead.

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post #16751 of 16761 Old 09-02-2017, 06:11 PM
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New Source for MCM Stellar Labs VHF-High Yagi Antennas

If you try to order the MCM 30-2475 or 2476 VHF yagi after Oct 1, 2017, you will be redirected to the Newark.com web site.

30-2475 -
FRINGE DIRECTIONAL ANTENNA VHF-HI HDTV 174 - 230MHZ
Newark part number 48Y8141
http://www.newark.com/stellar-labs/3...vhf/dp/48Y8141

30-2476 -
FRINGE DIRECTIONAL ANTENNA VHF-HI HDTV 174 - 230MHZ
Newark Part No.: 71Y5462
http://www.newark.com/stellar-labs/3...vhf/dp/71Y5462

Note that they have left out the word DEEP in front of the 2476, giving them the same name.

If you want the manual, download it now from the MCM site, it isn't on the Newark site.


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Sent: Fri, Sep 01, 2017 10:49 AM
Subject: A Very Exciting Announcement!

We are thrilled to share a very exciting announcement with you: MCM will soon be operating under the Newark element14 name! The combined product lines of MCM and Newark will offer you a broader range of innovative solutions to serve your needs. You’ll also have access to many new benefits by registering below.

In the coming months, MCM and Newark will be working to combine operations. During this time, MCM products will become available on the Newark website. We invite you to register for an account on Newark’s website and begin placing orders through Newark.com.
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Last edited by rabbit73; 09-02-2017 at 06:17 PM.
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post #16752 of 16761 Old 09-05-2017, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by rabbit73 View Post
If you try to order the MCM 30-2475 or 2476 VHF yagi after Oct 1, 2017, you will be redirected to the Newark.com web site.

30-2475 -
FRINGE DIRECTIONAL ANTENNA VHF-HI HDTV 174 - 230MHZ
Newark part number 48Y8141
http://www.newark.com/stellar-labs/3...vhf/dp/48Y8141

30-2476 -
FRINGE DIRECTIONAL ANTENNA VHF-HI HDTV 174 - 230MHZ
Newark Part No.: 71Y5462
http://www.newark.com/stellar-labs/3...vhf/dp/71Y5462

Note that they have left out the word DEEP in front of the 2476, giving them the same name.

If you want the manual, download it now from the MCM site, it isn't on the Newark site.
Apparently Premiere Farnell is merging their 2 companies into one entity, or at least one website. Newark has a warehouse near me in Gaffney, SC and MCM has their warehouse in Ohio. I wonder if eventually those distribution centers may consolidate as well.
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post #16753 of 16761 Old 09-12-2017, 12:10 PM
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Hell all, i need a good VHF HI only antenna for towers 45 miles out, i was going to get the Deep Fringe Directional Antenna VHF-Hi HDTV 174 - 230MHz, but i guess no one has it anymore, impossible to get unless u wait 4 months.

I wanted that one cause it has good reviews and was only 35 bucks.

What might you guys recommend instead?
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post #16754 of 16761 Old 09-12-2017, 01:22 PM
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Hell all, i need a good VHF HI only antenna for towers 45 miles out, i was going to get the Deep Fringe Directional Antenna VHF-Hi HDTV 174 - 230MHz, but i guess no one has it anymore, impossible to get unless u wait 4 months.

I wanted that one cause it has good reviews and was only 35 bucks.

What might you guys recommend instead?
For 30-2476 - FRINGE DIRECTIONAL ANTENNA VHF-HI HDTV 174 - 230MHZ the website says 656 in stock. It is one of the few VHF-only high gain antenna available.

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post #16755 of 16761 Old 09-12-2017, 02:01 PM
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post #16756 of 16761 Old 09-13-2017, 05:51 AM
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Originally Posted by ctdish View Post
I recently purchased a Stellar Labs (30-2475) MCM Part #30-2475 , which is their cheaper version VHF antenna.
These babies are of very high quality and look like they will last forever.
And, the RCA TVPRAMP1Z Preamplifier has separate UHF-VHF inputs.
Just make sure and set the pre-amp for separate inputs.
I highly recommend this combination.

Last edited by nathill; 09-13-2017 at 05:51 AM. Reason: spelling
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post #16757 of 16761 Old 09-13-2017, 10:21 AM
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I recently purchased a Stellar Labs (30-2475) MCM Part #30-2475 , which is their cheaper version VHF antenna.
These babies are of very high quality and look like they will last forever.
And, the RCA TVPRAMP1Z Preamplifier has separate UHF-VHF inputs.
Just make sure and set the pre-amp for separate inputs.
I highly recommend this combination.
I think the RCA is the only preamp that still has the dual separate inputs for UHF and VHF, since the the original Channel Master 7778 and 7777 models are no longer produced. And it apparently has a decent noise figure and good overload tolerance. And it is very reasonably priced when ordered from Amazon or Walmart.
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post #16758 of 16761 Old 09-13-2017, 12:51 PM
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And it apparently has a decent noise figure and good overload tolerance.

I've tried to debunk the idea that the RCA has good overload characteristics before but the idea that it is good persists. It's not good. Out of all the preamps I've measured the RCA is 2nd worst on UHF. I measured IP3 on VHF at +28.5 dBm and on UHF at +22.1 dBm at best. Compare that to the AD Juice preamp that measured +37.5 dBm on both VHF and UHF. I think this came about because one person ran a subjective over-the-air test and it worked for him therefore it had good overload characteristics. That's all well and good but it's not objective data.

My original post with all the measurements except IP3 is located here:

RCA TVPRAMP1R Preamp: A Technical Review

I didn't have two signal generators at the time to measure IP3. Attached are the measurements I didn't have before.
Attached Thumbnails
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Last edited by Calaveras; 09-13-2017 at 12:55 PM.
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post #16759 of 16761 Old 09-13-2017, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Calaveras View Post
I've tried to debunk the idea that the RCA has good overload characteristics before but the idea that it is good persists. It's not good. Out of all the preamps I've measured the RCA is 2nd worst on UHF. I measured IP3 on VHF at +28.5 dBm and on UHF at +22.1 dBm at best. Compare that to the AD Juice preamp that measured +37.5 dBm on both VHF and UHF. I think this came about because one person ran a subjective over-the-air test and it worked for him therefore it had good overload characteristics. That's all well and good but it's not objective data.
Great data, thanks for sharing. Fortunately my location does not call for a pre-amp, but the EE in me still finds it fascinating. Just got my hands on a F to SMA adapter so I can bring a spectrum analyzer home from work and geek out on my antenna reception spectrum.

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post #16760 of 16761 Old 09-13-2017, 06:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calaveras View Post
I've tried to debunk the idea that the RCA has good overload characteristics before but the idea that it is good persists. It's not good. Out of all the preamps I've measured the RCA is 2nd worst on UHF. I measured IP3 on VHF at +28.5 dBm and on UHF at +22.1 dBm at best. Compare that to the AD Juice preamp that measured +37.5 dBm on both VHF and UHF. I think this came about because one person ran a subjective over-the-air test and it worked for him therefore it had good overload characteristics. That's all well and good but it's not objective data.

My original post with all the measurements except IP3 is located here:

RCA TVPRAMP1R Preamp: A Technical Review

I didn't have two signal generators at the time to measure IP3. Attached are the measurements I didn't have before.
Thanks for clarifying the overload issue. I will stand corrected. Perhaps this issue has been falsely reported. But I know I have read a favorable technical review of the RCA somewhere, perhaps the noise figure and dual inputs were the good points, as well as the low cost factor. But it has indeed been established here that the Juice preamp from Antennas Direct may be best where overload tolerance is concerned, and it also has a decent noise figure. It is probably best for moderate gain and a balance of strong and weak signals. But if combining antennas for UHF and VHF, you will have to add a UVSJ.
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post #16761 of 16761 Old 09-13-2017, 06:28 PM
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It is probably best for moderate gain and a balance of strong and weak signals. But if combining antennas for UHF and VHF, you will have to add a UVSJ.

It's not impossible to get around this, just expensive. I'm using a Tinlee UVSJ with DC pass on both ports and separate VHF & UHF preamps. You can select preamps based on what you need; Gain/NF/Strong Signal handling.

On UHF I use a Tinlee 30dB gain preamp for my extremely long coax run and its high IP3 for one strong station. It's NF is decent. On VHF I use a KT-200 for its very low noise figure and moderate gain. The KT-200 IP3 is okay but I don't care because I have no strong stations on VHF.
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