The Official AVS Antenna and Related Hardware Topic! - Page 68 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2011 of 16761 Old 05-25-2005, 04:45 PM
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here is my antenna web info...
outside antenna is def an option i am willing to look into..
any recomendations?


red - uhf WMPT 22 PBS ANNAPOLIS MD 8° 31.8 22
* blue - uhf WMPT-DT 22.2 PBS ANNAPOLIS MD 8° 31.8 42
blue - uhf WDCA 20 UPN WASHINGTON DC 326° 40.1 20
blue - uhf WETA 26 PBS WASHINGTON DC 326° 40.1 26
blue - vhf WJLA 7 ABC WASHINGTON DC 327° 38.5 7
blue - uhf WBFF 45 FOX BALTIMORE MD 7° 54.4 45
blue - uhf WBDC 50 WB WASHINGTON DC 331° 37.2 50
blue - vhf WUSA 9 CBS WASHINGTON DC 327° 38.5 9
* blue - uhf WUSA-DT 9.1 CBS WASHINGTON DC 327° 38.5 34
blue - uhf WUTB 24 UPN BALTIMORE MD 0° 51.9 24
blue - uhf WFDC 14 TFA ARLINGTON VA 326° 38.1 14
blue - vhf WTTG 5 FOX WASHINGTON DC 327° 38.9 5
blue - uhf WNUV 54 WB BALTIMORE MD 0° 51.9 54
blue - uhf WHUT 32 PBS WASHINGTON DC 326° 40.1 32
violet - vhf WMAR 2 ABC BALTIMORE MD 7° 54.4 2
violet - uhf WMDT 47 ABC SALISBURY MD 105° 45.9 47
violet - uhf WMPB 67 PBS BALTIMORE MD 1° 63.1 67
violet - uhf WNVC 56 IND FAIRFAX VA 314° 41.2 56
violet - vhf WJZ 13 CBS BALTIMORE MD 7° 54.4 13
violet - uhf WZDC-LP 64 TEL ARLINGTON VA 331° 37.2 64
violet - uhf WUPV 65 UPN ASHLAND VA 224° 66.7 65
* violet - uhf WTTG-DT 5.1 FOX WASHINGTON DC 327° 38.9 36
violet - vhf WRC 4 NBC WASHINGTON DC 326° 38.1 4
* violet - uhf WRC-DT 4.1 NBC WASHINGTON DC 326° 38.1 48
violet - uhf WPXW 66 PAX MANASSAS VA 303° 43.5 66
* violet - uhf WBDC-DT 50.1 WB WASHINGTON DC 331° 37.2 51
violet - uhf WBOC 16 CBS SALISBURY MD 104° 50.8 16
* violet - uhf WJLA-DT 7.1 ABC WASHINGTON DC 327° 38.5 39
violet - uhf WCPB 28 PBS SALISBURY MD 112° 54.7 28
violet - vhf WBAL 11 NBC BALTIMORE MD 7° 54.4 11
violet - uhf WFPT 62 PBS FREDERICK MD 333° 65.9 62
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post #2012 of 16761 Old 05-25-2005, 07:58 PM
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DrkWtsn,
CM 4228 and CM rotor and try the attic first for esthetic and weather reasons.
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post #2013 of 16761 Old 05-26-2005, 04:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrkWtsn View Post

here is my antenna web info...
outside antenna is def an option i am willing to look into..
any recomendations?


red - uhf WMPT 22 PBS ANNAPOLIS MD 8° 31.8 22
* blue - uhf WMPT-DT 22.2 PBS ANNAPOLIS MD 8° 31.8 42
blue - uhf WDCA 20 UPN WASHINGTON DC 326° 40.1 20
blue - uhf WETA 26 PBS WASHINGTON DC 326° 40.1 26
blue - vhf WJLA 7 ABC WASHINGTON DC 327° 38.5 7
blue - uhf WBFF 45 FOX BALTIMORE MD 7° 54.4 45
blue - uhf WBDC 50 WB WASHINGTON DC 331° 37.2 50
blue - vhf WUSA 9 CBS WASHINGTON DC 327° 38.5 9
* blue - uhf WUSA-DT 9.1 CBS WASHINGTON DC 327° 38.5 34
blue - uhf WUTB 24 UPN BALTIMORE MD 0° 51.9 24
blue - uhf WFDC 14 TFA ARLINGTON VA 326° 38.1 14
blue - vhf WTTG 5 FOX WASHINGTON DC 327° 38.9 5
blue - uhf WNUV 54 WB BALTIMORE MD 0° 51.9 54
blue - uhf WHUT 32 PBS WASHINGTON DC 326° 40.1 32
violet - vhf WMAR 2 ABC BALTIMORE MD 7° 54.4 2
violet - uhf WMDT 47 ABC SALISBURY MD 105° 45.9 47
violet - uhf WMPB 67 PBS BALTIMORE MD 1° 63.1 67
violet - uhf WNVC 56 IND FAIRFAX VA 314° 41.2 56
violet - vhf WJZ 13 CBS BALTIMORE MD 7° 54.4 13
violet - uhf WZDC-LP 64 TEL ARLINGTON VA 331° 37.2 64
violet - uhf WUPV 65 UPN ASHLAND VA 224° 66.7 65
* violet - uhf WTTG-DT 5.1 FOX WASHINGTON DC 327° 38.9 36
violet - vhf WRC 4 NBC WASHINGTON DC 326° 38.1 4
* violet - uhf WRC-DT 4.1 NBC WASHINGTON DC 326° 38.1 48
violet - uhf WPXW 66 PAX MANASSAS VA 303° 43.5 66
* violet - uhf WBDC-DT 50.1 WB WASHINGTON DC 331° 37.2 51
violet - uhf WBOC 16 CBS SALISBURY MD 104° 50.8 16
* violet - uhf WJLA-DT 7.1 ABC WASHINGTON DC 327° 38.5 39
violet - uhf WCPB 28 PBS SALISBURY MD 112° 54.7 28
violet - vhf WBAL 11 NBC BALTIMORE MD 7° 54.4 11
violet - uhf WFPT 62 PBS FREDERICK MD 333° 65.9 62

If you want a shot at all of those, you'll have to go with a large vhf/uhf combo on a rotor (Winegard 8200p, CM 3671) and a CM 7777 preamp. You can get better performance from separates though. If you're willing to give up low band vhf (2-6), consider the Antennasdirect XG91 for UHF and Antennacraft Y107-13 for high band (7-13). These are small enough so you could put them both on the rotator spaced at least 48 inches apart. You *could* use a full band vhf like the Wade/
Delhi VIP 306 or Antennacraft CS 900 or 3BG22 on the bottom but that may be pushing the limits of your rotor. If you fix the VHF section below the rotor, obviously you could go as big as you like but you won't have the luxury of rotating for VHF. The CM 4228 for UHF is a good choice but will be high loading on the rotor.

The CM 7777 has separate VHF and UHF inputs if you go with separates, and a "combined" input if you don't. Make sure the internal switches are set correctly.

I wouldn't waste time in your attic.
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post #2014 of 16761 Old 05-26-2005, 05:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrkWtsn View Post

here is my antenna web info...
outside antenna is def an option i am willing to look into..
any recomendations?

If you want the analogs, you'll need both a UHF and VHF antenna. Otherwise, a UHF-only will serve you well.

For violet areas, you'll want as good an antenna as you can get, mounted outside as high as you can go. Since your closest station is over 30 miles away, a preamp is a great idea as well. Check into the Channel Master 7777, as it's a top performer.
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post #2015 of 16761 Old 05-26-2005, 06:12 AM
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I just moved into a new apartment about 15 miles south of Boston, and I was expecting reception to be great, however, I'm having some major troubles getting a solid signal. The main problem is that my apartment faces south and there is no feasible way to get a north-facing antenna mounted. Also, I'm on the ground floor, and about 50 feet from the south side is a forest, so I'd expect that I'm getting hit by multipathing as well. I've tried a few antennas so far: the Winegard Squareshooter, a Silver Sensor, and a couple RCA indoor antennas with preamps (I have access to a Best Buy discount, so that's the reason behind those selections). I've tried all the windows and everywhere within the apartment, I can't get consistent reception on all stations - it seems like even if I lock on to some of them, one or two of them always has completely inconsistent reception (jumping between 10-80%). It's starting to look like I'm going to have to mount something outside, which I was hoping to avoid. Does anyone have any suggestions on what to do in a situation like this? Do I have any indoor antenna choices that could work, and if outdoor mounting really would be the best for me, what should I use? Should I be using directional antennas since I can't really point them directly at the station?

I've included my antennaweb data for reference, and I'm using a MyHD MDP-120 for tuning. Thanks in advance for any tips!

* yellow - uhf WSBK-DT 38.1 UPN BOSTON MA 342° 12.0 39
* yellow - uhf WFXT-DT 25.1 FOX BOSTON MA 345° 11.1 31
* yellow - uhf WGBH-DT 2.1 PBS BOSTON MA 342° 12.0 19
* yellow - uhf WGBX-DT 44.1 PBS BOSTON MA 342° 12.0 43
* yellow - uhf WBZ-DT 4.1 CBS BOSTON MA 342° 12.0 30
* yellow - uhf WBPX-DT 68.1 PAX BOSTON MA 344° 11.5 32
* yellow - uhf WCVB-DT 5.1 ABC BOSTON MA 342° 12.0 20
* yellow - uhf WHDH-DT 7.1 NBC BOSTON MA 346° 11.5 42
* green - uhf WLVI-DT 56.1 WB CAMBRIDGE MA 345° 11.1 41

Sony VPL-HW40ES projector || Denon AVR-X4400W receiver || Outlaw Model 7700 amp || B&W CM10 S2 (front) || B&W CMC2 S2 (center) || B&W CWM 7.4 (surround) || B&W CM5 S2 (surround back) || B&W CCM683 x4 (Atmos) || HSU VTF-3 MK5 subwoofer x2
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post #2016 of 16761 Old 05-26-2005, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sregener View Post

If you want the analogs, you'll need both a UHF and VHF antenna. Otherwise, a UHF-only will serve you well.

For violet areas, you'll want as good an antenna as you can get, mounted outside as high as you can go. Since your closest station is over 30 miles away, a preamp is a great idea as well. Check into the Channel Master 7777, as it's a top performer.


I have cable for the analog.. all i want is the digital channels (hdtv)
thanks everyone
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post #2017 of 16761 Old 05-26-2005, 09:14 PM
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Since this seems to be the thread for antenna recommendations, I will ask for help here. I'm hoping I don't annoy anyone with another mindless post. Here goes.

My location:
900 S. Kansas Ave.
Hastings, NE 68901

AntennaWeb results:
red - uhf KTVG 17 FOX GRAND ISLAND NE 312° 14.4 17
* red - uhf KGIN-DT 11.1 CBS GRAND ISLAND NE 266° 21.9 32
red - vhf KHAS 5 NBC HASTINGS NE 355° 5.4 5
red - uhf KHNE 29 PBS HASTINGS NE 42° 20.7 29
* red - uhf KHNE-DT 28.1 PBS HASTINGS NE 42° 20.8 28
blue - vhf KGIN 11 CBS GRAND ISLAND NE 267° 21.9 11
* blue - uhf KHAS-DT 5.1 NBC HASTINGS NE 355° 5.4 21
blue - vhf KHGI 13 ABC KEARNEY NE 277° 25.0 13
* blue - uhf KHGI-DT 13.1 ABC KEARNEY NE 277° 25.4 36
* blue - uhf KTVG-DT 17.1 FOX GRAND ISLAND NE 312° 14.4 19

If anyone uses the antennaweb site for my address, I don't care about the last 4 channels on the list.

Current antenna is an outdoor VHF/UHF Radioshack job, fairly large, and thanks to the recent hailstorm that rolled through town, in pretty bad shape. Currently, no amps are used in the system, which is split in various places to support ~8 tuners (some tv sets/vcrs, some tuner cards in PCs.)

Requirements for the new antenna system: needs VHF and UHF, no rotors (someone would always complain with the number of tuners on the system,) also, because of strong reception on 5, amping the signals may be problematic. OTOH, with as many times as it is split and the cable lenghts involved (longest run is 150'+, possibly 200'), an amp may cause no trouble at all.

I am currently thinking that a regular combo antenna of decent size could be combined with a UHF only antenna using a jointenna. The combo job would (theoretically) recieve most of the stations and the UHF would recieve 28 and 29. I suppose an amp somewhere in that mix would be beneficial.

Whew, well thanks to anyone who took the time to read all that! Any and all suggestions/thoughts greatly appreciated.

Brian
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post #2018 of 16761 Old 05-27-2005, 02:11 AM
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Originally Posted by brianmf View Post

I suppose an amp somewhere in that mix would be beneficial.

Unless you have local considerations (low terrain, trees) I would avoid an amplifier. Generally, these aren't useful until 30+ miles away. Inside of that, they can do much more harm than good, and since you have so many close, strong signals, it is unlikely that a preamplifier would do much for you.
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post #2019 of 16761 Old 05-27-2005, 04:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brianmf View Post

Requirements for the new antenna system: needs VHF and UHF, no rotors (someone would always complain with the number of tuners on the system,) also, because of strong reception on 5, amping the signals may be problematic. OTOH, with as many times as it is split and the cable lenghts involved (longest run is 150'+, possibly 200'), an amp may cause no trouble at all.

I am currently thinking that a regular combo antenna of decent size could be combined with a UHF only antenna using a jointenna. The combo job would (theoretically) recieve most of the stations and the UHF would recieve 28 and 29. I suppose an amp somewhere in that mix would be beneficial.

Whew, well thanks to anyone who took the time to read all that! Any and all suggestions/thoughts greatly appreciated.

Brian

Brian

I live in Kearney and can receive all the stations listed with one antenna. Fortunately my location allows me to point in one general direction and receive an acceptable signal from all of them. (including 21 @1.355 KW at 39 miles away!) I would not be able to receive all of them without an amplifier. Your location is not as antenna friendly. One thing to remember is that if you want to receive the digital signal from 5(21), 13(36) and 17(19) is that they are not broadcasting at full power. Channels 11(32) and 29(28) are broadcasting with a much stronger signal and will be much easier to receive. I am using an amplifier without any overloading problems. There is one catch though. It is a Winegard AP-8700 which is a "medium" power amp. I tried an AP-8275 which is a "high" power amp and had overload problems. I live about 13 miles from the 13 tower and 17 miles from the 11 tower. I really think that if you want to receive solid UHF signals you will want to use a medium power low noise amplifier of some kind, especially with that kind of cable length. I actually enjoy watching channel 5 now that the interference is gone! I made a map that shows tower heights and power as well as distance to your place. I think your plan to use two antennae with a jointenna is a worthy one. One other thing, make sure you turn in any damaged equipment to your insurance company to help pay for some new equipment.
LL

DirecTV since 9/94
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post #2020 of 16761 Old 05-28-2005, 06:58 PM
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how can a person find out what their local digital channels are broadcasting at as far as power wise? i.e. 20kw,30kw or 50kw

edited to say Ft Myers,Fl. locals for example
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post #2021 of 16761 Old 05-28-2005, 07:19 PM
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Originally Posted by dapack5 View Post

how can a person find out what their local digital channels are broadcasting at as far as power wise? i.e. 20kw,30kw or 50kw

Spend some time here:
http://www.fcc.gov/mb/video/tvq.html

Type in the call letters of a station. Select "TV Query (detailed output +CDBS links)". Look for a digital record that indicates "licensed." If none exist, it is probably the highest-powered one listed as an STA.

Or you could email the engineers at the stations you're interested in.

Checking your local market thread and asking there is also a good idea, as there are probably dozens of regulars who know the answer and will share it if asked.
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post #2022 of 16761 Old 05-28-2005, 08:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dapack5 View Post

how can a person find out what their local digital channels are broadcasting at as far as power wise? i.e. 20kw,30kw or 50kw

edited to say Ft Myers,Fl. locals for example

For Ft. Myers: http://www.tvradioworld.com/region1/...tion.asp?m=for

Click on "complete FCC data" for the analog station and it will give you all the available info for both the digital and analog station. Stations with "special temporary authority" have the option of being at lower power still. To know for sure, though, you need word from someone at the station. Many are at full power and still have STA's listed.
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post #2023 of 16761 Old 05-29-2005, 07:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpcat View Post

For Ft. Myers: http://www.tvradioworld.com/region1/...tion.asp?m=for

Click on "complete FCC data" for the analog station and it will give you all the available info for both the digital and analog station. Stations with "special temporary authority" have the option of being at lower power still. To know for sure, though, you need word from someone at the station. Many are at full power and still have STA's listed.


thanks that's what i was looking for
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post #2024 of 16761 Old 05-29-2005, 08:25 AM
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I had an antena profesionally installed in my Addict and seem to get reception pretty well. But on some days its just terrible. I think I'm going to have to call him back out. He usually brings his own hd box to test the signal.

Is there a better software tool than MCE to measure my actual signal strength? The 5 bars seem pretty useless. I also notice they change every time a scan finishes. Any suggestions would be much appreciated.
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post #2025 of 16761 Old 05-30-2005, 01:29 PM
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Hi,
I'm not sure I know how to do this but I need help. We live in an outlying area (Copper Canyon, TX 75077)and have always had a roof top antenna (short one story roof). We are getting a new antenna and also are getting an HDTV. We have no idea what antenna to get to allow good HD reception. We live pretty far (I think) from the stations. The antenna web results were as follows:

* red - uhf KMPX-DT 30.1 DAY DECATUR TX 140° 17.8 30
* blue - uhf KLDT-DT 55.1 IND LAKE DALLAS TX 125° 8.5 54
* blue - uhf KDAF-DT 33.1 WB DALLAS TX 163° 38.2 32
* blue - uhf KERA-DT 14.1 PBS DALLAS TX 161° 35.9 14
* blue - uhf KDFW-DT 4.1 FOX DALLAS TX 163° 35.2 35
* blue - uhf KXAS-DT 5.1 NBC FORT WORTH TX 162° 35.3 41
* blue - uhf KXTX-DT 40.1 TEL DALLAS TX 162° 35.3 40
* blue - uhf KTVT-DT 11.1 CBS FORT WORTH TX 161° 35.9 19
* violet - uhf KTXA-DT 21.1 UPN FORT WORTH TX 163° 38.2 18
* violet - vhf WFAA-DT 8.1 ABC DALLAS TX 163° 35.2 9
* violet - uhf KUVN-DT 23.1 UNI GARLAND TX 163° 35.0 24
* violet - uhf KDTN-DT 2.1 DAY DENTON TX 163° 38.2 43
* violet - uhf KPXD-DT 68.1 PAX ARLINGTON TX 163° 34.9 42
* violet - uhf KSTR-DT 49.1 UNI IRVING TX 163° 38.2 48
* violet - uhf KFWD-DT 52.1 IND FORT WORTH TX 162° 35.0 51

We are so confused by all the options. Could someone give us an idea of what might work for us. We don't have power to where the antenna would be located so I don't think we can have a rotor. We also will several (3 or 4) TV's and have installed RG6 wire to the TV locations.

Thanks tons for any help!!!!
Robin
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post #2026 of 16761 Old 05-31-2005, 06:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rodoug View Post

Hi,
I'm not sure I know how to do this but I need help. We live in an outlying area (Copper Canyon, TX 75077)and have always had a roof top antenna (short one story roof). We are getting a new antenna and also are getting an HDTV. We have no idea what antenna to get to allow good HD reception. We live pretty far (I think) from the stations. The antenna web results were as follows:

* red - uhf KMPX-DT 30.1 DAY DECATUR TX 140° 17.8 30
* blue - uhf KLDT-DT 55.1 IND LAKE DALLAS TX 125° 8.5 54
* blue - uhf KDAF-DT 33.1 WB DALLAS TX 163° 38.2 32
* blue - uhf KERA-DT 14.1 PBS DALLAS TX 161° 35.9 14
* blue - uhf KDFW-DT 4.1 FOX DALLAS TX 163° 35.2 35
* blue - uhf KXAS-DT 5.1 NBC FORT WORTH TX 162° 35.3 41
* blue - uhf KXTX-DT 40.1 TEL DALLAS TX 162° 35.3 40
* blue - uhf KTVT-DT 11.1 CBS FORT WORTH TX 161° 35.9 19
* violet - uhf KTXA-DT 21.1 UPN FORT WORTH TX 163° 38.2 18
* violet - vhf WFAA-DT 8.1 ABC DALLAS TX 163° 35.2 9
* violet - uhf KUVN-DT 23.1 UNI GARLAND TX 163° 35.0 24
* violet - uhf KDTN-DT 2.1 DAY DENTON TX 163° 38.2 43
* violet - uhf KPXD-DT 68.1 PAX ARLINGTON TX 163° 34.9 42
* violet - uhf KSTR-DT 49.1 UNI IRVING TX 163° 38.2 48
* violet - uhf KFWD-DT 52.1 IND FORT WORTH TX 162° 35.0 51

We are so confused by all the options. Could someone give us an idea of what might work for us. We don't have power to where the antenna would be located so I don't think we can have a rotor. We also will several (3 or 4) TV's and have installed RG6 wire to the TV locations.

Thanks tons for any help!!!!
Robin

ChannelMaster 4228 UHF 8 BAY BOWTIE with PREAMP. If that doesn't work, I don't know what else would.
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post #2027 of 16761 Old 05-31-2005, 07:18 AM
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Originally Posted by blackngold19 View Post

ChannelMaster 4228 UHF 8 BAY BOWTIE with PREAMP. If that doesn't work, I don't know what else would.

Seems like a good suggestion. You might need something else for Channel 9. There's a nice Funke VHF-hi yagi-corner reflector around if you need it, but you might be okay with the CM4228's VHF-hi gain as is:
http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/comparing.html
Around 3dBd, that should be enough.
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post #2028 of 16761 Old 05-31-2005, 08:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rodoug View Post

We live in an outlying area (Copper Canyon, TX 75077)and have always had a roof top antenna (short one story roof). We are getting a new antenna and also are getting an HDTV. We have no idea what antenna to get to allow good HD reception.

Why are you getting a new antenna? Is the old one not working well? HD uses the exact same frequencies as analog, so if you're getting good UHF (almost all your digital stations use UHF) reception now, you already have what you need.

The 4228 isn't a bad choice for a fixed install (i.e. not with a rotor) but I think the 4221 might be a slightly better choice. While most of your stations are at 162-163 degrees, a few are off-axis enough that the 4228 might be a touch too directional to get a good signal.

35-40 miles isn't "way out." I'm "way out" at 75 miles, and I still get good reception a lot of the time. At 40 miles, any quality "fringe" UHF/VHF antenna should work great. I used a Winegard HD7084P on my roof for a couple of years (single story) and anything inside of 50 miles was easy to get, in spite of my being below average grade and blocked by trees.

I'd caution against getting the preamplifier until after the antenna is up - they solve one very specific problem - weak signal (snow on analogs) - but can cause lots of problems if that very specific problem isn't your issue (and it probably won't be.)

As for power for a rotor - they use a special three-strand cable from the outdoor box to the indoor unit that supplies the power and controls the rotor - no need for electricity outside.
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post #2029 of 16761 Old 05-31-2005, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by blackngold19 View Post

ChannelMaster 4228 UHF 8 BAY BOWTIE with PREAMP. If that doesn't work, I don't know what else would.

He'd better be cautious about preamp overload with that full power analog only 8 miles away. I'd go without the preamp first then add maybe a low gain preamp or even a distribution amp if needed later.
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post #2030 of 16761 Old 05-31-2005, 03:06 PM
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Agreed - the preamp (7777) I used with the CM 4228 for a transmitter 9 miles away overloaded the receiver and my picture went from ocassional breakups to non-existent with "No Signal" being displayed. It can make things much worse ;(

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Originally Posted by cpcat View Post

He'd better be cautious about preamp overload with that full power analog only 8 miles away. I'd go without the preamp first then add maybe a low gain preamp or even a distribution amp if needed later.

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post #2031 of 16761 Old 05-31-2005, 03:47 PM
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Ok here it is: Pic of my setup. In a nutshell, the main mast is a piece of fence posting. It is supported by concrete in the ground, as well as the chimey straps. The rotator is mounted about 1/2 way down the chimney. I'm also using 2 rotator bearings so the majority of the mast has the 2 masts running side by side. The top rotator bearing is guyed to the house.

From the pic you can see the VHF only is at the bottom, the dish looking UHF is at the top and the FM only is at the very top. I wonder if these are too close to each other even though they're all running different frequencies. Right now I'm running no preamp, but do have a radio shack 4 way distribuation amp to help drive the signal through out the house.

I plan to probably ditch the channel master dish looking UHF and try out one of those Yagi style ones.

So far this stack has survived 10 years from everything such as icing in the inter as well as Tropical Storm Isabel last year.

I have no complaints about the FM or the VHF, but the UHF has something to be desired. I'm looking for any type of advice, good or bad.

I should mention that right now I am only using analog TV. Hopefully today, my dish 811 will arrive so I can try out digital TV. Also, according to the antenna web, I'm sort of on a side of a hill but I think my main (baltimore) stations I watch are just grazing the side of that hill. I think this hill is what is causing some multipath (or blocking some of the UHF altogether) especially in the UHF.

I'd like to get an elevation (what kind of map is that called?) so I can do some better calculations/drawings.









Hey all, I can't believe its been 6 months since I posted this last. Anyway, its now great weather here in the mid-atlantic so I can do my outdoor projects once again.

Heres what I'm planning to do. I'm going to rent a cherry-picker and loose that huge dish looking antenna. Add a pre-amp mainly for the UHF. Probably keep the existing VHF and the FM. I'd like to keep them on the same stack. A previous posted indicated my antennas were too close. How far away should they be positioned away from each other to minimize interference?

I'm probably going to get the Antennas direct 91XG http://www.antennasdirect.com/91XG_HDTV_antenna.html as the TV reception takes #1 priority over what it looks like.

So the main questions-- how far away should the UHF be from the other 2 antennas, and #2, is there a recommended preamp, preferably a UHF/VHF combiner preamp- I am looking at the Channel Master 7777 preamp...
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post #2032 of 16761 Old 05-31-2005, 04:25 PM
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If you want to amp only UHF, look into the Winegard preamps. I think that the Channel Master UHF preamp blocks VHF. Winegard makes a preamp that boosts UHF while combining it with (unamped) VHF signals. I don't know if you are wanting to amp both as the post you quoted seemed to indicate that only the UHF band needed help. Also, sregener brings up a good point, in that adding a preamp won't help multipath problems.
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post #2033 of 16761 Old 05-31-2005, 04:29 PM
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Eric,

Isn't that parabolic UHF antenna about the highest gain model that has even been built. I don't think anything currently on the market, including the 91XG has as much forward gain. If weak signals are your problem, I think I would be keeping the parabolic antenna.
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post #2034 of 16761 Old 05-31-2005, 04:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brianmf View Post

I think that the Channel Master UHF preamp blocks VHF. Winegard makes a preamp that boosts UHF while combining it with (unamped) VHF signals.

Not quite correct - see link from
http://www.signalelectronics.com/cha...r%20preamp.htm

"Models 7777 and 7778 cover both VHF and UHF bands with separate amplification in each band for maximum signal handling. They may be configured for either separate or combined VHF and UHF inputs. They include a switchable FM trap. "

Also see nice table in this link

peter
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post #2035 of 16761 Old 05-31-2005, 05:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ericdwong View Post

So the main questions-- how far away should the UHF be from the other 2 antennas, and #2, is there a recommended preamp, preferably a UHF/VHF combiner preamp- I am looking at the Channel Master 7777 preamp...

To minimize interference, a UHF antenna should be at least one wavelength away from any other antennas. This measurement is taken from the active element in your setup. Since that dish is probably of the 7' variety, you were probably already fine. While others can do the math, I'd guess 4' should do you just fine.

The CM777 is one of the best preamplifiers on the market, especially for noise - 2.0db is a nice, low number. It has separate inputs for UHF and VHF, and does a good job isolating the two.

While the parabolics have a real nice gain number, their front-to-back ratio (crucial for digital reception) is not so great. The 91XG is a fine choice. However, you may not see much improvement if you place it in the same spot - elevation is more important than anything else with UHF reception, at least until you clear all local obstructions and trees by 10 feet.

Good luck!
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post #2036 of 16761 Old 05-31-2005, 05:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil Laffoon View Post

Eric,

Isn't that parabolic UHF antenna about the highest gain model that has even been built. I don't think anything currently on the market, including the 91XG has as much forward gain. If weak signals are your problem, I think I would be keeping the parabolic antenna.


I dont know, it may very well be. My dad put that thing up. If its a good dish then heck, I'll keep it, saves me $80 from a new antenna. Right now the UHF sux and I think part of it is due to the antennas being too close and the lack of a preamp. I will probably amplify both UHF and VHF. I live far out enough in the country side that overload should not be a problem and when I try to receiver further stations such as Philly or Washington DC, the VHF will help.

I'm either gonna cherry picker it or use scaffolding, whichever is more cost effective. I need to get up there because one of the upper antenna masts is slipping in the wind and its really annoying. I thought it was the rotator at first, but after doing some testing using a long handled broom the rotator wasnt being blown, it was just the top mast slipping. So I gotta either drive a screw through there or get my welder up there to prevent that from happening.

How far away should I put the antennas? Or, maybe I'll try a different approach altogether, since now I have an extra rotator, put the VHF on another part of the house...and then also get a vertical rotator for that dish for maximum UHF pulling power....
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post #2037 of 16761 Old 05-31-2005, 05:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sregener View Post

To minimize interference, a UHF antenna should be at least one wavelength away from any other antennas. This measurement is taken from the active element in your setup. Since that dish is probably of the 7' variety, you were probably already fine. While others can do the math, I'd guess 4' should do you just fine.

The CM777 is one of the best preamplifiers on the market, especially for noise - 2.0db is a nice, low number. It has separate inputs for UHF and VHF, and does a good job isolating the two.

While the parabolics have a real nice gain number, their front-to-back ratio (crucial for digital reception) is not so great. The 91XG is a fine choice. However, you may not see much improvement if you place it in the same spot - elevation is more important than anything else with UHF reception, at least until you clear all local obstructions and trees by 10 feet.

Good luck!


Thanks for that reply. I'll be ordering the 7777 preamplifier as soon as I'm done typing this. I will also think about getting that thing up higher. Last time me, my dad and a neighbor drug that stack of antennas on the roof and got it in place. This time, with a cherry picker I should be able to get it higher. I'll put an extra bearing and some more guy wire up there to keep it in place.

What exactly is the front to back ratio?
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post #2038 of 16761 Old 05-31-2005, 09:23 PM
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Looking for balun (matching transformer) with longish cable
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Due to my setup, life would be made much easier if I could find a balun (300-75 ohm) with a longish cable, say about 12 inches. I searched on Google and several sites but so far without success - anyone know where I might be able to get one.

Alternatively, any idea if anyone sells a 1ft ready made section of RG6 with cables. The smallest I have found so far is 3ft. I know I could cut it in to 2 section and add connectors, but I would rather have this expertly done at the factory ;-)

thanks

Peter
p.s I basically want to join 2 antennas on the same mast with the least amount of connectors / failure points possible.
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post #2039 of 16761 Old 06-01-2005, 12:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ericdwong View Post

Hey all, I can't believe its been 6 months since I posted this last. Anyway, its now great weather here in the mid-atlantic so I can do my outdoor projects once again.

Heres what I'm planning to do. I'm going to rent a cherry-picker and loose that huge dish looking antenna. Add a pre-amp mainly for the UHF. Probably keep the existing VHF and the FM. I'd like to keep them on the same stack. A previous posted indicated my antennas were too close. How far away should they be positioned away from each other to minimize interference?

I'm probably going to get the Antennas direct 91XG http://www.antennasdirect.com/91XG_HDTV_antenna.html as the TV reception takes #1 priority over what it looks like.

So the main questions-- how far away should the UHF be from the other 2 antennas, and #2, is there a recommended preamp, preferably a UHF/VHF combiner preamp- I am looking at the Channel Master 7777 preamp...

Looking back at your earlier post, you are only 17 miles out from the Baltimore towers. It's possible you may run into overload problems with the CM 7777. You might do better with the CM 3042 distribution amp (at Lowe's) placed inside and continue to use the vhf/uhf diplexer on the mast. The new RS one is good as is the CM 0549 and Pico makes a good one http://www.picomacom.com/specs/pico/C/C24.pdf

48 inches seems to be enough spacing for uhf and vhf 7-13. You'll need more for 2-6 vhf (60 works o.k.). When trying to prevent interaction, spacing should be measured between closest antenna elements i.e. any horizontal metal antenna part needs to be considered to prevent interaction. You are too close currently. See http://www.kyes.com/antenna/stacking.html

The CM 4251 dish is very high gain but not as directional as the 91xg and has lower front-back ratio as mentioned. FB ratio and directionality is important for mulitpath (ghosting) rejection.

You may need to consider an FM trap as well if you're going with some sort of amplification. The Winegard model is good and the hi port of a hi/lo combiner works well if you don't need low band vhf (2-6) . See the pico link above.
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post #2040 of 16761 Old 06-01-2005, 04:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ericdwong View Post

What exactly is the front to back ratio?

It is a measurement of the difference in signal strength of the antenna for a signal coming in the front (the proper end of the antenna) versus the back (the wrong end of the antenna.) Ideally, you should not receive any signal from the back of antenna, but no reflector screen is perfect, so there's always some signal that "leaks through." The parabolic screen on the Channel Master parabolic is especially porous (might have something to do with the active elements facing "backwards.")
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