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post #1111 of 1562 Old 08-14-2008, 12:51 PM
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Hi Dogleg69:

Just wanted to thank you for your work on the firmware. I currently have the DB2010 with FW 2.7.11. I followed your instructions to bring it up to 2.93, then 2.94. All is working fine. My main reason for upgrading to the newer firmware is to see if it resolves my problem with the local PBS lock up. I am out of Southern California. When watching 28.1 (KCET) especially with non HD programs, it will lock up after a minute or two. If I were to watch the NATURE show which is in HD, the lock up does not occur. When the HD show ends and the commerical appear (non HD), the Hisense box will lock up in a few seconds.

I will also try out the new options you put into the 2.9x FW.

Thank you again for your instructions and your work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dogleg69 View Post

Thanks for the kudos. You would think a simple timer would be pretty easy, but I was surprised how complex it actually was.

The EPG timer:

- press Program Info on a program from the EPG page
- that brings up the exanded description
- press OK to add that as a timer (if one is available)
- press INFO or EXIT to just close the window

That is not optimal, but since we can't add any new physical buttons, it was the cleanest I could come up with. kousikb suggested adding a timer from the EPG screen during test and I was able to design and slip it in.

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post #1112 of 1562 Old 08-14-2008, 01:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ax135 View Post

My main reason for upgrading to the newer firmware is to see if it resolves my problem with the local PBS lock up. I am out of Southern California. When watching 28.1 (KCET) especially with non HD programs, it will lock up after a minute or two. If I were to watch the NATURE show which is in HD, the lock up does not occur. When the HD show ends and the commerical appear (non HD), the Hisense box will lock up in a few seconds.

Please post an update on what you find out. Others have had issues on "freq 41" which I think in their area was also a PBS station. Very interesting about the lockup on SD vs HD. I can't reproduce that problem. If we can get some more information, I would see what could be done. I suspect the PSIP information or the process thereof. If you can note the programs it happens on, I can see if/when the local PBS is showing that and we can compare notes.

Thanks for the encouragement
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post #1113 of 1562 Old 08-14-2008, 01:53 PM
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Count me as another Los Angeles KCET watcher who also experiences lock ups on my db2010. I'm interested in whether the upgrade fixes this problem.
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post #1114 of 1562 Old 08-14-2008, 03:43 PM
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Hi:

Bad news. I just checked my DB2020 box. I left it on since 12pm. It is now 3:30pm. All I see on the screen is that there's current "no signal" for 28.1. If I switch to other channels, it displays the same message. So it looks like the 2.9x firmwares did not fix the local PBS problem for me. At least not in CA with KCET/PBS/28.1. This only happens with 28.1 and no other channels. My other local PBS channel KOCE does not have this problem. Is there any diagnostic data or log files that I can derive from the receiver to give you any clues?



Quote:
Originally Posted by dogleg69 View Post

Please post an update on what you find out. Others have had issues on "freq 41" which I think in their area was also a PBS station. Very interesting about the lockup on SD vs HD. I can't reproduce that problem. If we can get some more information, I would see what could be done. I suspect the PSIP information or the process thereof. If you can note the programs it happens on, I can see if/when the local PBS is showing that and we can compare notes.

Thanks for the encouragement

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post #1115 of 1562 Old 08-14-2008, 04:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ax135 View Post

Bad news. I just checked my DB2020 box. I left it on since 12pm. It is now 3:30pm. All I see on the screen is that there's current "no signal" for 28.1. If I switch to other channels, it displays the same message. So it looks like the 2.9x firmwares did not fix the local PBS problem for me. At least not in CA with KCET/PBS/28.1. This only happens with 28.1 and no other channels. My other local PBS channel KOCE does not have this problem. Is there any diagnostic data or log files that I can derive from the receiver to give you any clues?

Do you have the serial cable and a linux box? If so, we may be able to turn on debugging and capture some data that would help.

If you can give as much detail, maybe it will spark something in my little brain. If so, I may be able to come up with something to narrow it down.

So you tune it to KCET 28.1, leave it there, then the blue "no signal" is in the center of the screen? You change to another channel that previously worked and now it says no channel? Does the box ever reboot during this process? Does the tuner ever come back online? How to do fix the problem? It only happens on SD programming on KCET? Signal strengths on KCET - do they fluxuate? Anything and everything you can provide will help for the next steps.

I wish I would reproduce it here. If you can provide enough info, I can dig around for some leads. Then I can maybe get you a special version with enhanced debugging (but I would have to create that). Why I ask about the tuner, I can trace back to why all the places that may display the "no signal" and if I could find a path that would lead to that.
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post #1116 of 1562 Old 08-15-2008, 12:50 AM
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Hi Dogleg69: Pleaes read my response after the >> symbol.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dogleg69 View Post

Do you have the serial cable and a linux box? If so, we may be able to turn on debugging and capture some data that would help.
>> Sorry, I do not have a linux box. Is there anything I can extract from the built in menu "diagnostic feature". Mabye I can send you photos of it.

If you can give as much detail, maybe it will spark something in my little brain. If so, I may be able to come up with something to narrow it down.

So you tune it to KCET 28.1, leave it there, then the blue "no signal" is in the center of the screen?
>> Yes, when I leave the tuner at 28.1 long enough, the "no signal" blue screen will eventually appear.

You change to another channel that previously worked and now it says no channel?
>> After the blue "no signal" screen occurs, I can still change the channel. But all other channels will also have the blue "no signal" screen.

Does the box ever reboot during this process?
>> The box does not reboot. Just goes into the blue "no sig" screen.

Does the tuner ever come back online?
>> No, to get the signal back, I have to hold the power for a few seconds and reboot.

How to do fix the problem?
>> After the reboot, all is well. But if I leave it on 28.1, it will eventually blue screen again.

It only happens on SD programming on KCET?
>> That seems to be the pattern. But not always. Shows such as "Nature", and "Masterpiece" are broadcasted in HD. Those programs can run for hour with no lock up. But what does cause the lock up and commericals before and after the show. The commericals are not in HD. That is why I suspect non HD programs are causing the lock up. Kid shows such as Sesame Street, Dragon Tales, Word World will also intermittenly cause lock ups.

Signal strengths on KCET - do they fluxuate?
>> Signal strength is solid at 5 bars. It does not go up/down.

Anything and everything you can provide will help for the next steps.

I wish I would reproduce it here. If you can provide enough info, I can dig around for some leads. Then I can maybe get you a special version with enhanced debugging (but I would have to create that). Why I ask about the tuner, I can trace back to why all the places that may display the "no signal" and if I could find a path that would lead to that.

>> I also found some info on the KCET site at http://www.kcet.org/schedule/faqs.php#faq137 especially this paragraph.

======
Why does my Digital receiver stop responding and require a reboot when I select KCET HD on 28-1?

On April 12, 2006 KCET began data casting TV guide information within the digital broadcast. This causes digital receivers that are not ATSC compliant to fail. The only receivers that have exhibited this problem to date are those distributed by the now defunct VOOM HD network. The receivers were originally manufactured by Motorola under model name DSR 550 for VOOM. When VOOM went into bankruptcy many of these receivers were sold on E-BAY at a very low price. Motorola has refused to support the unit or to provide any upgrades to the unit. Unfortunately, the only recourse left to the viewer is to discontinue the use of the unit and purchase a new receiver.
======

Also, back in 7/2007, KCET put info on their site concerning how they were implementation non HD programs. http://www.kcet.org/schedule/hd_announce.php


====
Starting July, 2007, the KCET lineup will air on KCET's digital spectrum. That means that your children's favorite programs, the news and public affairs programming (including The NewsHour with Jim Lehrer, Frontline and Bill Moyers Journal) will be seen at your favorite times on KCET-DT - where the KCET high-definition channel was seen. This means that the same lineup on our regular analog channel will be available in high definition in all the normal places you've been watching our high-definition channel, be it cable or off the air.

You'll enjoy the lineup of PBS programs shot in high definition 1080i at their regular times. (Programs that are not shot in HD format will appear on your HD sets with curtains.) Though shot in 1080i, KCET HD programming appears in 720p.

This change will allow us the extra bandwidth to bring you KCET's other digital services including KCET Orange, KCET Desert Cities, V-me and PBS World.
====

>> I emailed KCET back in 7/2007 about the program. Their reply was that it was not their problem.

>> Hope all this info helps.
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post #1117 of 1562 Old 08-15-2008, 07:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ax135 View Post

I emailed KCET back in 7/2007 about the program. Their reply was that it was not their problem.

Hope all this info helps.

Great info. Can you PM me the email address and email you sent to KCET? I will send them email about the Hisense box and explain that is it supported and see if they will help me understand what could be the problem. Hopefully we can get this solved (may take a while though).
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post #1118 of 1562 Old 08-15-2008, 11:09 AM
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Hi dogleg69:

This is what I previously sent to KCET back in 7/2007. The email address and contact person is in the email.

======
-----Original Message-----
From: George Hsing-Hotmail [mailto:ax135@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 3:43 PM
To: 'V Serve'
Subject: RE: HDTV Tuner Lockup

Hi Janine:

I am aware of the changes of 28.2 (gone). My problem is with the digital
channel 28.1. I can view the channel for around 1-2 minutes and then it
will lock up my HDTV tuner which I have to perform a reset with the message
28.1 is off-line. This just started toward the beginning of July 2007. I
am not the only person experiencing this. My neighbor and my uncle in
Oxnard are also experiencing the same. We are all using receiving HDTV
over the air, not via cable or satellite.

The new change that KCET 28.1 implemented have rendered our HDTV receiver
inoperable to the point that we can no longer view 28.1.

Please pass the email to your engineers so they can be ware of it. In the
mean time, I have to switch to 50 and 58 to watch some of the similar
programs.

Thank you for your help.

-----Original Message-----
From: V Serve [mailto:viewerservices@kcet.org]
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 3:19 PM
To: ax135@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: HDTV Tuner Lockup


Dear KCET Friend,

Thank you for your inquiry.

It appears that our scheduled digital channel line up change implemented
on Monday, July 2 has caused quite a few viewers to call or email Viewer
Services reporting loss of KCET programming.

The change, which the Time Warner, Charter, and other cable companies were
informed about several weeks ago, did not reach every cable head end
facility as hoped. Since many cable systems had been using our digital
28.2 channel to feed their systems, we felt it necessary to give them
advanced warning that they would need to use an alternative source for
regular KCET programming. As a result there were some cable viewers who
suddenly lost KCET early Monday afternoon for varying lengths of time as
the various cable facilities made the switch to the analog channel or
digital channel 28.1.

Please know that we have made every possible effort to keep the cable
companies informed of this change. We do apologize for the inconvenience.
It seems that the systems have all switched over and KCET should be back
for those who experienced problems. This change to the line up is needed
so that we can be ready to launch our two new digital channels this year,
with the World channel this summer and Orange in the fall.

Digital channel 28.1 will now carry the traditional "analog" schedule with
standard definition programming in it's normal 4:3 aspect ratio with
curtains on each side and shows shot in HD will be shown in full screen
16:9 format. Digital channel 28.3 will remain the same with V ME.
Digital channels 28.2 and 28.4 are scheduled for the new World and Orange
channels and the final destination for these services will be announced in
the near future.

If you have any questions regarding our programming schedule, please
contact Viewer Services at (323) 953-5238 Monday through Friday between
the hours of 9:00 am to 5:00 pm.

Thank you for your interest in KCET.


Sincerely,

Janine Anderson
KCET Web Correspondent




on Sunday, July 15, 2007 at 11:28 PM +0000 wrote:
>Hi:
>
>Did KCET change transmitter settings recently? I've been
>receiving lock ups on my HDTV tuner since early July 2007. I have a
>Hisense DB2010 tuner. I've been receiving KCET 28.1 with no problems
>prior to July 2007.
>
>Thank you!

======

Quote:
Originally Posted by dogleg69 View Post

Great info. Can you PM me the email address and email you sent to KCET? I will send them email about the Hisense box and explain that is it supported and see if they will help me understand what could be the problem. Hopefully we can get this solved (may take a while though).

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post #1119 of 1562 Old 08-15-2008, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ax135 View Post

Thank you!

Please gather the following.

0. What version and build date from the System Info.

1. Tune to KCET. Note fairly accurately how long it takes to get the "no signal" and what program.

2. Make sure there is a program on KCET that will cause the problem. Go to the adjust antenna and then tune to KCET (manually or using arrows). Note everything that happens. Wait double the time it took in step 1. Did it lock up, show the no sig, or can you still change channels on the adjust screen?

3. Turn the until on for over 3 hours on a good station (TV does not have to be on all that time -- maybe just watch the olympics for 3+ hours). After the TV has been on over 3 hours, press the EPG/Program Guide button. Let is go for as long as it takes to remove the antenna from the screen. Did it lock up?


The 3rd scenario should tell us if it is PSIP related or not. If you are not viewing KCET but you ask for a guide (knowing after 3 hours of watching it is stale) and it does not lock up, then it is probabaly not the PSIP.

Also, please tell me the channel number and the actual frequency of KCET or the zip code and I'll look on TVFool.
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post #1120 of 1562 Old 08-15-2008, 03:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ax135 View Post

On April 12, 2006 KCET began data casting TV guide information within the digital broadcast. This causes digital receivers that are not ATSC compliant to fail.


Question: Of all the digital channels in Los Angeles, (there are a lot) is KCET 28.1 the only digital channel datacasting TV guide information?

No other channel locks up the Hisense box. Not even 28.2 or 28.3

The digital channel is actually broadcast on UHF CH 59. They'll be switching to CH 28 come Feb 2009. I'm watching from zip code 90241.

Sorry, but I'm not a Linux user, either.
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post #1121 of 1562 Old 08-18-2008, 12:49 PM
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Please read my replies below after the >> symbol.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dotheDVDeed View Post

Question: Of all the digital channels in Los Angeles, (there are a lot) is KCET 28.1 the only digital channel datacasting TV guide information?

>> I am pretty sure other digital channels database TV guide info.

No other channel locks up the Hisense box. Not even 28.2 or 28.3

>> 28.2, 28.3 is fine. All the 50+ digital channels I pick up, only 28.1 cause the lock up.

The digital channel is actually broadcast on UHF CH 59. They'll be switching to CH 28 come Feb 2009. I'm watching from zip code 90241.



Sorry, but I'm not a Linux user, either.

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post #1122 of 1562 Old 08-21-2008, 04:25 PM
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I finally gathered all the info. Please see my replies after >>.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dogleg69 View Post

Please gather the following.

0. What version and build date from the System Info.

>> Version = 2.9.4 (2.4.18-17), Build Date: 0808071500

1. Tune to KCET. Note fairly accurately how long it takes to get the "no signal" and what program.

>> Here is what I found out. I've been watching KCET 28.1 today since 8am. Programs from xx:01 - x:58 will NOT lose the signal. As soon as it gets to xx:59 or so, it will get the "no signal" screen. After xx:01 or when the program starts, it will no longer lose the signal. So far this is consistent. For example, I can watch "Sesame Street for almost an hour from 12:01-12:59pm. This happened at 8:59am, 9:59am, etc. After the end of the "Sesame Street" credits at 12:58 or 12:59, it goes into a PBS commercial and a few seconds later "no signal". I will reboot the receiver. If the time period is still in the range of xx:59 to xx:01, it will continue to lock. When the new show starts at xx:02 (Caliou, Mr. Roger's Neighborhood, Word World, etc.), the receiver will continue to operate without problems. I managed to watch most the children shows without any problem until the end. I also manged to lock up one time at the xx:29 time when the Caliou show switched over to Mr Roger's Neighborshood. The "no signal" occured only prior to or after the show has ended.

2. Make sure there is a program on KCET that will cause the problem. Go to the adjust antenna and then tune to KCET (manually or using arrows). Note everything that happens. Wait double the time it took in step 1. Did it lock up, show the no sig, or can you still change channels on the adjust screen?

>> Yes, the program on KCET will lock up consistently on the hour at xx:59. Yes, it locks, then shows the "no sig". I can still channels but all channels have "no signal".

3. Turn the until on for over 3 hours on a good station (TV does not have to be on all that time -- maybe just watch the olympics for 3+ hours). After the TV has been on over 3 hours, press the EPG/Program Guide button. Let is go for as long as it takes to remove the antenna from the screen. Did it lock up?

>> I do not not turn off my receiver. It can stay on for weeks without a problem. Maybe even month if I do not leave it on 28.1. I can leave it on EPG with no lock up problem.

The 3rd scenario should tell us if it is PSIP related or not. If you are not viewing KCET but you ask for a guide (knowing after 3 hours of watching it is stale) and it does not lock up, then it is probabaly not the PSIP.

>> It is probably not PSIP related as I never had a none 28.1 lock up.

Also, please tell me the channel number and the actual frequency of KCET or the zip code and I'll look on TVFool.

>> KCET 28's number is 59. The zip here is 92620.

>> Thank you again for your help in this.
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post #1123 of 1562 Old 08-22-2008, 05:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ax135 View Post

I finally gathered all the info.
>> KCET 28's number is 59. The zip here is 92620.

>> Thank you again for your help in this.

This is awesome information. Thank you for doing this. Very interesting. Let me think about it.
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post #1124 of 1562 Old 08-23-2008, 06:22 AM
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I have been using the new 2.9.4 version on both of my units. I have not had to use the timers yet since I was keeping the unit turned on and tuned to NBC so I could record the Olympics on my Phillips DVR. I have, however, noticed my units lose time rapidly. I have had to reset the time constantly due to the method used to set the system time. I have found that requesting the EPG to reset the time is also less than desirable since that process takes a good chunk of time to finish. I find that the program info does not display properly until I reset the system time.

I have a suggestion. Can the system time also be set against the time channel every time the unit is turned on? This would reduce the need for manually resetting the time or requesting the EPG. It seems that the system time request is pretty fast when using the menu option and this method should not appreciably delay unit turn on time. Otherwise, the upgrade seems to be spot on and having the timers will really make it easier to record network shows on my DVR.
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post #1125 of 1562 Old 08-23-2008, 08:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by james614 View Post

I have been using the new 2.9.4 version on both of my units. I have not had to use the timers yet since I was keeping the unit turned on and tuned to NBC so I could record the Olympics on my Phillips DVR. I have, however, noticed my units lose time rapidly. I have had to reset the time constantly due to the method used to set the system time. I have found that requesting the EPG to reset the time is also less than desirable since that process takes a good chunk of time to finish. I find that the program info does not display properly until I reset the system time.

Have you set the system time channel to a channel that gives accurate time? Could you try a few different system channels and see if it continues?

The box could be set to get the time each time the box is turned on, but it would slow down the sequence to enable the use of the tuner (and the box). The way it is suppose to be working today is that while the box is off, it will update the time from the system time channel (and update the EPG) every 60 mins.

If you know the system time is set to a good channel that keeps time, please watch for additional clues. I'll setup some additional tests over a longer period of time, with different system time channels and see what I can see too.
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post #1126 of 1562 Old 08-24-2008, 06:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by james614 View Post

I have been using the new 2.9.4 version on both of my units. I have not had to use the timers yet since I was keeping the unit turned on and tuned to NBC so I could record the Olympics on my Phillips DVR. I have, however, noticed my units lose time rapidly. I have had to reset the time constantly due to the method used to set the system time.

I just re-read this will a clear head. The reason you are losing time is because you are keeping the box on. If you would set the timers (so that you at least turn the box off a few hours a day, it would pull the system time and set it then.

The box gets the system time from the STT block in the PSIP. To pull the PSIP it needs full control of the tuner (because it switches stations, just doesn't pipe the audio/video out). As I said in the other post, the box polls the system time channel and runs through all channels updating the EPG each hour while the box is off. So, it is important for the box to stay off for a few hours a day. Otherwise, it will loose time and experience the symptoms you have described.
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post #1127 of 1562 Old 08-24-2008, 08:14 AM
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question
what type of dvr can be hooked up to these tuners for recording ?
I would like to get one but i am not sure what type to get also hopefully it does not come with a monthly subscription i want to keep my tv viewing and recording free.
other than purchasing my dvr of course.
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post #1128 of 1562 Old 08-24-2008, 04:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goldwingrider View Post

question
what type of dvr can be hooked up to these tuners for recording ?
I would like to get one but i am not sure what type to get also hopefully it does not come with a monthly subscription i want to keep my tv viewing and recording free.
other than purchasing my dvr of course.

Right now, this box is only a tuner, EPG and timers. You can use that combination and use the tuner in front of a DVD writer or a VCR. The ultimate goal will be to see if we can hook up an external USB drive and stream the mpeg2 to disk --- basically create a very simple digial video USB recorder. However, that is not in the works yet. We'll see in the future.

This USDTV box does not have a subscription. You can get a VCR or DVD recorder and set the timers in both the VCR and USDTV. This will turn the USDTV box on and change the channel. Then set the same on the VCR to record on Line1 or AUX or whatever. Basically you can use this box as a digital tuner for the analog recording equipment you already have.
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post #1129 of 1562 Old 08-25-2008, 04:26 PM
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thank you dogleg69 for the info i was just curious because i saw james614 stateing that he was using a dvr to record the olympics,
also very nice job with the firmware programming.
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post #1130 of 1562 Old 08-25-2008, 05:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goldwingrider View Post

thank you dogleg69 for the info i was just curious because i saw james614 stateing that he was using a dvr to record the olympics,
also very nice job with the firmware programming.

Thanks. I would still love to turn this box into a very simple recorder via an external USB disk. However, I haven't had the time to do a proof of concept yet. If/when it does become possible, I'll let this group know.
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post #1131 of 1562 Old 08-25-2008, 07:58 PM
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I am using a Phillips DVDR3575H/37. This is about the only DVR-DVD unit left sold at retail. This is a SDTV HD/DVD recorder. The new model is the 3576. I think they are sold at some Wal-Marts and I have also heard CostCo carries them. I purchased mine on eBay. They are also offered occasionally on the Phillips website as refurbished units for $199.

I am using the unit in the following method: Connect analog cable to antenna jack on DVR unit. Connect the DB2010 to the E1 connection on DVR via red/white/yellow composite jacks. This DVR has a HDTV tuner built in but if I used the antenna jack for OTA HDTV, I can't use it for analog cable. Therefore the DB2010 comes to the rescue. Finally, the QAM tuner on this DVR is a little buggy from what I have seen so far so I am not using the analog cable for picking up the local HDTV QAM stations. I hear that OTA gives a better picture than QAM anyway (less compression).

Using the DB2010 gives nearly DVD quality when recording HDTV as SDTV on the Phillips unit. I addition to the Olympics I recorded the Steelers-Vikings football game on Saturday night and was highly impressed at the picture quality that the DB2010/Phillips combination produced.
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post #1132 of 1562 Old 08-25-2008, 08:10 PM
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I was not using the 2.9.4 timers since the Olympics coverage was at all hours of the day and at different times on different days. I ended up with over 20+ NBC sessions on the DVR. The 2.9.4 timers were not fine grained enough to match the DVR timer schedule.

I'll try using 2.9.4 again with one daily timer of a few minutes using the designated system timer channel and let you know how it works.

My second DB2010 box is generally switched off via the surge suppression strip to save on electricity. The DB2010 is not the easiest unit on power consumption (12-15 watts). The second unit is hooked up to a TV that is generally not watched. This is why I asked for the system time check on power up. Is there a difference between a cold boot-up and a normal off-on via the remote in the unit's programming? Maybe the system time check could be part of the cold boot routine and not part of the off-on sequence via the timers?
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post #1133 of 1562 Old 08-26-2008, 05:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by james614 View Post

I was not using the 2.9.4 timers since the Olympics coverage was at all hours of the day and at different times on different days. I ended up with over 20+ NBC sessions on the DVR. The 2.9.4 timers were not fine grained enough to match the DVR timer schedule.

I'll try using 2.9.4 again with one daily timer of a few minutes using the designated system timer channel and let you know how it works.

My second DB2010 box is generally switched off via the surge suppression strip to save on electricity. The DB2010 is not the easiest unit on power consumption (12-15 watts). The second unit is hooked up to a TV that is generally not watched. This is why I asked for the system time check on power up. Is there a difference between a cold boot-up and a normal off-on via the remote in the unit's programming? Maybe the system time check could be part of the cold boot routine and not part of the off-on sequence via the timers?

Yes, there is a difference. I would recommend the unit be in standby mode (both lights red) for at least 30 mins a day. I recorded everything NBC offered for the Olympics. I programmed the VCR for the correct times. I programmed the db2010 with a Daily timer for 6AM-3AM. This would allow it to shut off for 3 hours each morning. It would be on NBC the rest of the day.

The way the db2010 keeps the time upto date and gets the EPG is that when the unit is in standby (two red lights), it changes the channel to the system time channel, turns on the tuner to that channel and gets the time via the STT block in the PSIP from that station (without piping audio or video out). It then uses the tuner to walk the enabled channels, using the tuner to tune to each channel, pulling the EIT and ETT from each stations PSIP information.

The above is scheduled to happen each hour. Depending on how many stations you have, getting the time and walking the PSIP for each channel can take upto ten mins. After it it done, it schedules another event to do it over again in 60 mins.

So, if the tuner is being used (the box is on with green lights or no power, no lights), it will not update the time or update the EPG information.
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post #1134 of 1562 Old 08-26-2008, 04:05 PM
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Hmm...

I am slightly confused since there does not seem to be a system time loss with running 2.9.3. Is there something with the new timer code that has a side effect of the unit losing time if a timer is not set? I like our discussion since it makes clear how the unit is programmed to work in 2.9.4. I did not realize the unit was running the EPG update every hour in 2.9.4.

I think that there is also a system time issue with the DTVPal according to the other forums. That unit is a less capable CECB unit that has a timer feature.

I think that the solution you have created is workable, we just need to better understand how to configure the unit so that it functions properly according to the new programming.

Thanks
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post #1135 of 1562 Old 08-26-2008, 07:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by james614 View Post

I am slightly confused since there does not seem to be a system time loss with running 2.9.3. Is there something with the new timer code that has a side effect of the unit losing time if a timer is not set? I like our discussion since it makes clear how the unit is programmed to work in 2.9.4. I did not realize the unit was running the EPG update every hour in 2.9.4.


2.9.3 updated the time every channel you changed to. Every frequency sends STT (system time table) in the PSIP (program and system information protocol). This means every station is broadcasting time information. In 2.9.3, each time you would change the channel, it would pull the STT out of the PSIP and set the system time.

This is all fine and good. But, when you implement timers, they are only useful if the time is consistent. Unfortunately, each station has slightly a different time -- some are off mins, some are off hours. Also, the internal clock in the version of the linux kernel that is being used looses time (know bug). So, we can't just set it once and expect it to not lose time -- we have to help the linux kernel keep the time accurate. You can't code an event to fire in XX milliseconds if the time is jumping all around.

So, yes, you did notice correctly in 2.9.3 that the system time would stay more upto date if you kept the unit on all the time (because it was pulling the time from the station you were on inside the STT block).

Since the timers were added in 2.9.4, we needed a way to make sure the time was consistent all the time (or as close a we could control). This was done by always getting the STT block from the PSIP from a single station. If you are watching the System Time Channel (that you set in Setup), your box will keep the current time up to date when the box is on. However, if you are not watching that channel, I can't just interrupt you watching the programming to say "hey, i need the tuner in order to get set the system time". So, when the box is off, I set the tuner to the System Time Channel, get the time and then start walking the enabled channels to update the EPG via the ETT and EIT blocks in the PSIP.

I'm very familiar with the DTVPal. I waited quite a while for it to come out so I could have timers. When it didn't work well, I implemented our own for this box. Doing that, I can certainly see the potential pitfalls of such an implementation. It is much harder to implement simple timers than one would think. If you read the DTVPal threads, it shows how many scenarios there really are.
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post #1136 of 1562 Old 08-26-2008, 08:25 PM
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This is good information. Is there a fix for that Linux time bug? I suspect that the hardware does not have a very good quartz clock and loses time like crazy.

Oh, my kingdom for the simplicity of the old reliable VCR clock. We don't know how good we had it back then.
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post #1137 of 1562 Old 08-26-2008, 08:43 PM
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Its a well known fact that CBS (usually the first channel, and I have read it in DTVPAL thread too) have wrong time set. I have set my DB20101 to get the time from my local NBC affiliate and they are always correct in my local DMA. Keeping the config this way, my DB2010 does maintain corect time. And yes I keep it in standby mode whenever I schedule recording.
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post #1138 of 1562 Old 09-01-2008, 08:16 AM
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Just wanted to report in that after setting a 1 minute daily timer event, the unit is now keeping time properly.

Thanks for all the assistance in getting this cleared up.
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post #1139 of 1562 Old 09-03-2008, 08:13 PM
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dogleg69,

Can you help please?

I have a hisense usdtv box with firmware version older than 2.7.15. It was a non subscription box from the start.

I came across this thread and decided to upgrade to get the newer features. So I upgraded to 2.9.3 first under your usingPre2.7.15 folder. The upgrade went fine. Then I rebooted the box and it prompted me to setup and scan for channels, which I proceeded to do. The scanning was going fine until channel 27 where it hangs. All I can do is 'cancel'. Pressing the blue 'program info' button gets me to the "adjust antenna" screen. But I cannot do anything else. I cannot find a way to skip the channel scan at all.

So then I thought maybe version 2.9.4 would fix. I upgraded to version 2.9.4 and got the same problem (ie. channel scan hangs at channel 27). I have reinstalled 2.9.3 and still no luck. My box is pretty much unusable now.

Do you have any ideas how I fix this? Much appreciated.

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post #1140 of 1562 Old 09-05-2008, 02:59 PM
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jtbs,

try scanning with the ant. disconnected, this may not work, but it is something to try.
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